Pentagon Confirms US Troops Will Deploy to Ukraine in Spring

[AngryCanadian]

Sadly, Russian agitprop is strong on this forum.

Nazis? Fascism? Seriously? There was an anti-corruption / pro-EU protest on the Maidan, then Russia invades and annexes Crimea, after which Russia invades Eastern Ukraine and now the West are Nazis? Where is the logic in that?

According to you and Western MSM/NATO

Syria:Rebels Moderates
Ukraine:Government/Westren Ukraine Peaceful none fascists.

[PredatorOC]

LOL at the source you posted.

Euromaidan PR



Next time your going to post me Syrian Rebel sources as proof of Assad crimes while you are at it.



Posting sources from Euromaidan is like posting sources from the Syrian rebels, Euromaidan PR is reablie as kievpost

Notice how you don't actually address the issue at hand, but rather attack the source.

Here, let me repost them, in case you want to address either of them:

I am not an FSB/KGB-paid stooge, you might as well back away from accusing others of being paid agents to other governments if you dont have evidence to back it up but of course you dont.

I never said you were. I merely stated that asking for evidence at every claim is a favoured tactic of said stooges. Which isn't incorrect as such, mind you. We should ALL be providing evidence to back up our claims.

I do have the evidences but why bother your probably just going to attack the sources as propaganda.

Depends on the quality of the source. If it's an editorialized "news" piece from RT.com, then that is likely. For example, the links I posted have no outright editorializing. It's just Putin and Lavrov making contradictory claims about Russia's involvement in Ukraine. The other is an armed Russian/pro-Russian soldier standing beside voting booths and checking the vote. If you have something like that to back up your claims, I'm quite eager to hear you out.

Last time i checked liberty minded folks dont support proxy conflicts which you do.

I'm sorry for being rude, but you're out of your mind. What I don't support is a large, armed-to-the-teeth nation invading a poor country. Does that sound familiar?

And what I especially don't like is people calling that poor country fascist and it's populace Nazis for simply trying to defend themselves.

[pcosmar]

Western Ukraine is also a hotspot of Illuminati Lizard UFO activity.

Saying that means it's true, right? I don't have to offer any evidence to back it up, right? This is cool.

Sadly,, I cannot -rep you twice.
but this stupid $#@! really deserves it.

[PredatorOC]

Another Nazi sympathizer. Go away

It's curious how deeply Russian propaganda has seeped into an ideological movement which is antithetical to Putin's Russia.

Even more curious is that the Nazi smear is mostly meant for the Russian audience, as the Soviet Union used the fear of Nazism and fascism as catch-all propaganda against all things anti-Communist. That same propaganda still resonates in Russia, hence everyone being a fascist and a Nazi. And in addition to Russia, it seems to resonate with the liberty movement, or whatever you can call it at this stage, where it eagerly adopts labels like "fascist" and "Nazi" from RT.com.

But, yes, call me names, ban me, whatever it takes to maintain the integrity of this echo chamber.

Down with the fascists!

[The Gold Standard]

When Russia tries to annex Ohio I will be ready to wallow in their blood. Until then, let them fight their own $#@!ing war.

[PredatorOC]

When Russia tries to annex Ohio I will be ready to wallow in their blood. Until then, let them fight their own $#@!ing war.

That's fine. I wasn't calling for US involvement. The issue I have is labeling a people trying to free themselves from the remnants of the Soviet system and defending themselves from invasion by Russia as Nazis and fascists. They're already in war against an enemy better armed than them, they don't need the "liberty" movement stabbing them in the back for the crime of trying to be free.

[pcosmar]

It's curious how deeply Russian propaganda has seeped into

OH BULL$#@!.
I was following this story from well before the Nazi Coup.

It was not "Russian Propaganda",, it was spread across every news service in the $#@!ing world.

It was not unexpected,, but it was disgusting to see our public officials backing this $#@!.





It is not surprising to me at all that many people in Ukraine reject this $#@! and want nothing to do with it.
It is no surprise that they would side with Russia.

Not propaganda,, just common sense.

[pcosmar]

That's fine. I wasn't calling for US involvement. The issue I have is labeling a people trying to free themselves from the remnants of the Soviet system

Bull$#@! again. This thread is directly about US involvement. Aside from the involvement that instigated the Coup,, but direct involvement with Troops on the Ground.

And the "Soviet System" has not existed since the 80s.
It is now just another socialist country like the rest of Europe. (Just bigger)

[PredatorOC]

OH BULL$#@!.
I was following this story from well before the Nazi Coup.

It was not "Russian Propaganda",, it was spread across every news service in the $#@!ing world.

It was not unexpected,, but it was disgusting to see our public officials backing this $#@!.






It is not surprising to me at all that many people in America reject this $#@! and want nothing to do with it.
It is no surprise that they would side with Russia.

Not propaganda,, just common sense.

See how easy that is?

In any country you will find some percentage of people who support idiotic $#@!. Finding them is a trivial task. Showing that these people actually run the government, and hence warrant the entire country being called "fascist" or "Nazi" is an entirely different matter. Failing to do so and continuing to call them fascist and Nazis is called a guilt by association fallacy, which is another tactic greatly favored by the left.

[PredatorOC]

Bull$#@! again. This thread is directly about US involvement.

No, we've been discussing whether Ukrainians are Nazis and fascists.

And the "Soviet System" has not existed since the 80s.

Actually it has. Or, more precisely, it's logical continuation. See, when the Soviet Union collapsed, state-owned property was more or less transferred to the state bureaucrats. That's where the oligarchs come from. That's where Putin's power comes from. That is what the Ukrainian revolution was about.

[AuH20]

No, we've been discussing whether Ukrainians are Nazis and fascists.



Actually it has. Or, more precisely, it's logical continuation. See, when the Soviet Union collapsed, state-owned property was more or less transferred to the state bureaucrats. That's where the oligarchs come from. That's where Putin's power comes from. That is what the Ukrainian revolution was about.

This entire phony Ukrainian revolution has been seeded and financed by the likes of ruthless oligarchs like George Soros. It has little to do with escaping from the 'evil' tentacles of Putin. The West has brought war to the doorsteps of Russia largely because of currency primacy and territorial control of Western Europe. Nothing less, nothing more. Anyone with a clear understanding of the geopolitical affairs in this world can see this for what it is.

[AuH20]

Sadly, Russian agitprop is strong on this forum.

Nazis? Fascism? Seriously? There was an anti-corruption / pro-EU protest on the Maidan, then Russia invades and annexes Crimea, after which Russia invades Eastern Ukraine and now the West are Nazis? Where is the logic in that?

You haven't read about the recruitment mobs in Western Ukraine? For all able bodied males, it's either pay the $1000 extortion fee to rip up the draft card or you're their property.

[PredatorOC]

This entire phony Ukrainian revolution has been seeded and financed by the likes of ruthless oligarchs like George Soros. It has little to do with escaping from the 'evil' tentacles of Putin. The West has brought war to the doorsteps of Russia largely because of currency primacy and territorial control of Western Europe. Nothing less, nothing more. Anyone with a clear understanding of the geopolitical affairs in this world can see this for what it is.

1. What do you base this on?

2. Does this make Ukrainians Nazis and fascists?

[PredatorOC]

You haven't read about the recruitment mobs in Western Ukraine? For all able bodied males, it's either pay the $1000 extortion fee to rip up the draft card or you're their property.

Do you happen to have a reliable source for this information?

[pcosmar]

. See, when the Soviet Union collapsed, state-owned property was more or less transferred to the state bureaucrats. That's where the oligarchs come from.

You are so full of $#@!.
The old Soviet Union was an Oligarchy. The United States is an Oligarchy. (communism is a Red Herring)
The Oligarchs have been around for well over 100 years..

[PredatorOC]

You are so full of $#@!.
The old Soviet Union was an Oligarchy. The United States is an Oligarchy. (communism is a Red Herring)
The Oligarchs have been around for well over 100 years..

You JUST said that the Soviet system hasn't existed since the 80's, but now the Soviet system was an oligarchy all along? Your argument is confusing.

[pcosmar]

Does this make Ukrainians Nazis and fascists?

Not all of them,, Many oppose them.. What makes them Nazi is that they are Nationalist Socialists.
The name "Nazi" Is for National Socialism.
The fact that many side with and revere the German Nazis is but a side note. (They had a huge parade for one,,when this all kicked off)





It disgusts me that the US is supporting this $#@!. It does not surprise me.. but it disgusts me.

[PredatorOC]

Again, all you have to offer are pictures with no context and certainly no evidence that warrants calling Ukrainians as a whole, or even a large portion of Ukrainians, Nazis and fascists.

[PredatorOC]

RON PAUL IS A NAZI FASCIST!

YOU'RE ALL NAZI FASCISTS!

Is this how it works?

[pcosmar]

You JUST said that the Soviet system hasn't existed since the 80's, but now the Soviet system was an oligarchy all along? Your argument is confusing.

The Soviet Union was an Oligarchy. It had a ruling party. The USSR was not (and never was) communist.
It called itself that.. but it never was. Communism can not exist as a political system..

it would by definition be the absence of any political system.. because it would need NO leaders or rulers..
People would all work toward the common goals.

It is so contrary to human nature that it will not ever exist,, and it has not ever existed outside of philosophical fantasy.

Communism is a boogieman that has never been any real threat. The old USSR was a socialist Dictatorship.. Run by a few,, a group. (Oligarchy)

[pcosmar]

Again, all you have to offer are pictures with no context and certainly no evidence that warrants calling Ukrainians as a whole, or even a large portion of Ukrainians, Nazis and fascists.

Did not say that all Ukrainians were. Some are,, and they stole power through Violence,,(backed by the US and others)

There are many fighting them. Rejecting them.

[presence]

$#@! the Ukraine and $#@! Russia.




US Boots should NEVER LEAVE US SOIL.

/END THREAD.

[PredatorOC]

Did not say that all Ukrainians were. Some are,, and they stole power through Violence,,(backed by the US and others)

There are many fighting them. Rejecting them.

You do understand that the composition of the Ukrainian parliament is essentially the same as before the Maidan, right? The only person who was ousted was the president who gave an order to shoot on propestors, Victor Yanukovych. Was Yanukovych the last bulwark against the Nazi fascists in the Ukrainian parliament? What EXACTLY is your reasoning for these people being Nazis and fascists?

[pcosmar]

What EXACTLY is your reasoning for these people being Nazis and fascists?

The video was shot last week in Ukraine by a camera team from Norwegian broadcaster TV2. “We were filming a report about Ukraine’s AZOV battalion in the eastern city of Urzuf, when we came across these soldiers,” Oysten Bogen, a correspondent for the private television station, told NBC News. Minutes before the images were taped, Bogen said he had asked a spokesperson whether the battalion had fascist tendencies. “The reply was: absolutely not, we are just Ukrainian nationalists,” Bogen said.

Ukrainian nationalists. (Nazis)

Why do you support National Socialism?

[pcosmar]

US Boots should NEVER LEAVE US SOIL.

/END THREAD.

I agree..
Nor should we meddle in the internal affairs of other countries by other means.

[PredatorOC]

Ukrainian nationalists. (Nazis)

Why do you support National Socialism?

Once more, you have some pictures of individuals, which you conflate to be representative of an entire nation.

And nationalism ≠ national socialism.

Also nationalism ≠ fascism.

If you intend to keep claiming that Ukrainians are Nazis and fascists, you need to show that Nazis and the fascist ideology play a crucial role in the government of Ukraine. Posting pictures of individuals does not make Ukrainians any more fascist than that Don Black picture makes Ron Paul a racist.

Or are you calling Ron Paul a racist?

[AuH20]

1. What do you base this on?

2. Does this make Ukrainians Nazis and fascists?

Wayne Madsen touched on this 2 years ago. Do you really think this has anything to do with giving the Ukrainians freedom? I really wish their revolution was organic and focused on true independence but it's not:

http://www.voltairenet.org/article181535.html

Ukraine, which resisted efforts by the European Union to integrate it into Europe’s banker-led federation of austerity and poverty, came into the EU’s cross hairs after it abandoned an «Association Agreement» pact with the EU. Instead, Kyiv opted for a more lucrative economic union with Russia. That move triggered off a mass street uprising in Kyiv’s Maidan (Independence) Square that demanded the resignation of Ukraine’s democratically-elected President and government.

The connections between the Kyiv uprising and the EU outside manipulators are so apparent, the Kyiv square that has become the «Tahrir Square» of Ukraine is called «Euromaidan.» The initial Tahrir Square uprising in Cairo, which overthrew Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak, was partly manipulated by Soros-financed and Sharp-influenced street demonstrators who took their cues from professional political agitators hastily flown into Egypt from the United States and Europe.

The latest professionally-agitated spectacle in Kyiv’s was spearheaded by the same Soros/Sharp/National Endowment for Democracy/CIA hydra that saw the overthrow of Ukraine’s government in 2004 in the so-called Orange Revolution. This time, not only is Ukrainian President Yanukovych, but ultimately Russian President Vladimir Putin, are the targets… [2]

Nuland, who is married to the neocon Robert Kagan, handed out snacks to protesters on Maidan Square. Imagine the reaction of the United States had a second-tier official of either the Russian or Chinese foreign ministry handed out food to Occupy Wall Street protesters in Washington and urged them to overthrow, by force if necessary, President Obama. Yet, that is exactly the scenario Nuland engaged in by supporting protesters in Maidan. Furthermore, she reprimanded Yanokovych for the heavy security presence in Maidan. Nuland and Kerry, who also upbraided Yanukovych, forgot the acts of police brutality committed by U.S. cops against occupy protesters, as well as a plan by the FBI to use snipers to assassinate the leaders of the group.

2. Does this make Ukrainians Nazis and fascists?

I believe the ultra-nationalists in the Ukraine are being used as the violent pawns in all of this. They are the sandpaper element in Ukraine.

[PredatorOC]

Wayne Madsen touched on this 2 years ago. Do you really think this has anything to do with giving the Ukrainians freedom? I really wish their revolution was organic and focused on true independence but it's not:

http://www.voltairenet.org/article181535.html

The only substantive evidence of US involvement was "Nuland, who is married to the neocon Robert Kagan, handed out snacks to protesters on Maidan Square."

The rest were guilt by association speculation.

I'm not saying it's impossible that there was official US involvement, but you have to accept that there isn't much evidence for it.

I believe the ultra-nationalists in the Ukraine are being used as the violent pawns in all of this. They are the sandpaper element in Ukraine.

Nationalists on BOTH sides are fighting, Russian AND Ukrainian. I'll accept that. But if that is all that qualifies for a nation to be Nazi fascist, then why isn't Russia Nazi fascist? Or, better yet, why call anyone a Nazi or a fascist unless they are actually Nazis or fascists? Why not accept that nationalist fervor is going to stir during a war and that a few individuals cannot be used to characterize an entire nation?

[pcosmar]

Once more, you have some pictures of individuals, which you conflate to be representative of an entire nation.

No.. I don't.
There is a civil War there. There are many fighting these NAZIS.
Crimea left,, for good cause. other provinces are at war..
Many Ukrainians oppose this $#@!.. so no,, I do not think ALL Ukrainians are Nazis.

Some, a great many oppose them.
So we are going to send troops to kill them.

[AuH20]

The only substantive evidence of US involvement was "Nuland, who is married to the neocon Robert Kagan, handed out snacks to protesters on Maidan Square."

The rest were guilt by association speculation.

I'm not saying it's impossible that there was official US involvement, but you have to accept that there isn't much evidence for it.

There is plenty of evidence if you know where to find it. This has been going on for awhile.

http://www.thenewamerican.com/world-...aine-s-turmoil

Many of the participants in Kiev’s “EuroMaidan” demonstrations were members of Soros-funded NGOs and/or were trained by the same NGOs in the many workshops and conferences sponsored by Soros’ International Renaissance Foundation (IRF), and his various Open Society institutes and foundations. The IRF, founded and funded by Soros, boasts that it has given “more than any other donor organization” to “democratic transformation” of Ukraine.

The International Renaissance Foundation’s Annual Report for 2012, the latest available, states that, “IRF provided UAH 63 million in funding to civil society organizations — more than any other donor organization working in this field in Ukraine.” The “UAH” reference used above refers to the Ukraine Hryvnia, Ukraine’s currency, which is worth about 0.11 $US, or 11 cents in U.S. currency. That translates into roughly $6.7 million that IRF provided to Ukrainian groups in 2012; not a huge sum, by comparison to many other political and social campaigns, but more than merely “significant.” In the cash-starved Ukraine, Soros’s dollars go a long way toward seducing and co-opting all legitimate political opposition into the Soros-approved “progressive” camp.

According to the IRF’s own website, this one Soros conduit has funneled over $100 million into Ukrainian NGOs over the years:

Over the period from 1990 to 2010 the International Renaissance Foundation provided more than $100 million in support to numerous Ukrainian non-government organizations (NGOs), community groups, academic and cultural institutions, publishing houses, etc.

I'm shocked we have people blindly take the side of Soros and the internationalists in all this. Imagine if the Russian government actively fomented a color revolution in Ottawa or Toronto? Do you think we would be amused? I would be irate.