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Thread: Agency Will Confiscate Infant if Entire Family Doesn’t Get Flu Shots

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    The problem with that argument is that the reactions are infinitely rarer than the diseases, and the odds of suffering permanent damage from the diseases are far far greater than the odds of suffering permanent damage from the vaccines. Math is not really all that hard at this level..
    You are confusing "belief" with "math." The statement that reactions are "infinitely rarer than the diseases" is not a statement based on fact or that can be proven.

    Want some facts?? Check out what the government is paying out in vaccine damages in a court of law, a monkey court at that called the Nation Vaccine Compensation Program, since it is illegal to sue the manufacturers of vaccines in Civil Court.

    Here are the awards compensated for the most recent government report:




    Government Pays Compensation to 80 Flu Vaccine Injuries and Deaths
    There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.
    (1 John 4:18)



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  3. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by moostraks View Post
    I usually avert my eyes when I see her posts and scroll through because they are so often overly obnoxious, narcissistic, and hate filled. Every once in a blue moon I bother to read them and regret the decision immediately because it really should be said that it is a unique argument she puts forth on whatever the subject matter is and I feel bad for the person subjected to the rants.
    You actually think that asserting that contract law is a cornerstone of libertarianism is a unique position? Or do you think that asserting that vaccines have literally saved billions of lives is unique?

    I don't actually care, but I want to know for my own amusement.

  4. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    The FDA never asserts that anything isn't dangerous. They only seek to determine at what levels substances become toxic. Let's play a game - name any substance that is 100% safe.
    Let's play another game. Name one substance that the FDA doesn't say maybe toxic. I know. Vitamin C! Come on Angela. I gave you the quote. I will give it again.

    Methylmercury is a neurotoxin. The toxicity of methylmercury was first recognized during the late 1950s and early 1960s when industrial discharge of mercury into Minimata Bay, Japan led to the widespread consumption of mercury-contaminated fish (Harada 1995).
    ....
    The various mercury guidelines are based on epidemiological and laboratory studies of methyl mercury, whereas thimerosal is a derivative of ethyl mercury. Because they are different chemical entities - ethyl- versus methylmercury - different toxicological profiles are expected. There is, therefore, an uncertainty that arises in applying the methylmercury-based guidelines to thimerosal. Lacking definitive data on the comparative toxicities of ethyl- versus methylmercury, FDA considered ethyl- and methyl-mercury as equivalent in its risk evaluation. There are some data and studies bearing directly on thimerosal toxicity and these are summarized in this Section.


    You find me a legitimate quote where the FDA says that it considers Vitamin C as potentially toxic as methylmercury and I'll donate $100.00 to you favorite feed the children GMO cabbage with scorpion genes fund. Deal?
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  5. #64
    We're going to have to see this "contract". Or some generic version of it. I forget what state this was. I guess I can go back and check. That is important. Again, because a lot of the time these are penned by industry lobbyists who get together with government entities to enforce the given growth model and what that turns into is a mercantilist kind of thing.



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  7. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Created4 View Post
    You are confusing "belief" with "math." The statement that reactions are "infinitely rarer than the diseases" is not a statement based on fact or that can be proven.

    Want some facts?? Check out what the government is paying out in vaccine damages in a court of law, a monkey court at that called the Nation Vaccine Compensation Program, since it is illegal to sue the manufacturers of vaccines in Civil Court.

    Here are the awards compensated for the most recent government report:

    Government Pays Compensation to 80 Flu Vaccine Injuries and Deaths
    For $#@!s sake, stop with the pictures. It only serves to even further dum down your position.

    We have been through this about 1000 times. It is obvious that math isn't the bedrock of the anti-vaxxers arguments. And there's really no point in going through it again, because ideologues have no room for fact.

    For starts, the court is a no-fault system. To go on, 80 people out of MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS proves that the vaccine is overwhelmingly safe, not that it is obscenely dangerous. My guess is that those people had a genetic predisposition to something in the vaccines. And of course the number of people who die from the flu is literally 1000 times that number, and that number will rise if the anti-vaxxers keep peddling their lies as unchallenged truth.

    And finally . THIS THREAD ISN"T ABOUT VACCINES! It's about a woman who doesn't want to live up to the terms of a contract she voluntarily entered into.

  8. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Citizen View Post
    We're going to have to see this contract. Or some generic version of it. I forget what state this was. I guess I can go back and check. That is important. Again, because a lot of the time these are penned by industry lobbyists and what that turns into is a mercantilist kind of thing.
    You know, it really doesn't matter. Here's a case where the government took away 7 kids from their birth parents because the father had a supplement that was not approved by the FDA.

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...ral-Supplement

    The fascist government takes over a particular part of the economy, first goes after those with whom it has contracts, then expands to everyone else. Wickard v. Filburn? The farmer in question had a "contract" with the government for a wheat allotment. That ruling was expanded on to give the federal government virtually unlimited power over through the commerce clause.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  9. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post

    And finally . THIS THREAD ISN"T ABOUT VACCINES! It's about a woman who doesn't want to live up to the terms of a contract she voluntarily entered into.
    Yeah, but ultimately we get into this kind of thing once you get the courts and state representatives involved... Supreme Court teen must undergo chemo

    There, what they are doing is ordering a specific medical treatment.

  10. #68
    One critical point that y'all gotta understand here....it's not science that has Angela so smitten, but scientific orthodoxy. If she were around in 1600 you can bet that she would have been first in line demanding Galileo's head before the Inquisition, eventually forcing him to recant under house arrest, much like that robotics engineer was forced to apologize for wearing the wrong shirt after landing a probe on a freaking comet.

  11. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    And finally . THIS THREAD ISN"T ABOUT VACCINES! It's about a woman who doesn't want to live up to the terms of a contract she voluntarily entered into.
    Well when you said this mother was too stupid to have children based on the vaccine issue, you made it about vaccines. And Donnay initially posted the thread about vaccines. You can't dictate what the thread is about. That said, once Obamacare forces doctors to sign all sorts of retarded "contracts"will it all be well and good?
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  12. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    One critical point that y'all gotta understand here....it's not science that has Angela so smitten, but scientific orthodoxy. If she were around in 1600 you can bet that she would have been first in line demanding Galileo's head before the Inquisition, eventually forcing him to recant under house arrest, much like that robotics engineer was forced to apologize for wearing the wrong shirt after landing a probe on a freaking comet.
    I'll tell you what, though. If there were things that I agree with angela on (and I'm certain that there are) I'd want her in my corner. She's freaking relentless, man. Damned ironwoman and whatnot.

  13. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    For $#@!s sake, stop with the pictures. It only serves to even further dum down your position.
    You mean like the one YOU shared where it compared the revenues of THE ENTIRE NATURAL FOODS INDUSTRY to the vaccine segment ALONE of Big Pharma, claiming that because an ENTIRE industry turned more revenues than a minor segment of pharmaceuticals, therefore they were crooked and profit-motivated more than Big Pharma?

    Sourced from "The skeptical libertarian" where you've been getting almost all of your statist orthodoxy propaganda lately?

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post5758207

  14. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Citizen View Post
    I'll tell you what, though. If there were things that I agree with angela on (and I'm certain that there are) I'd want her in my corner. She's freaking relentless, man. Damned ironwoman and whatnot.
    Yeah true. Maybe when the campaign gets started for real she and Donnay can volunteer to go door knocking together.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.



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  16. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Let's play another game. Name one substance that the FDA doesn't say maybe toxic. I know. Vitamin C! Come on Angela. I gave you the quote. I will give it again.
    So I will assume that you agree with me, in that we can't name any substance which isn't toxic because it's the dose that makes the poison. As with everything, Vitamin C does indeed have bad side effects at high doses.

    In regard to the actual topic of the thread, there are flu vaccines that don't contain mercury. So the foster mother can't use that excuse anyway. Second, they aren't talking about giving the infant a shot.

  17. #74
    My kids and I don't get flu shots. I don't think they are good for us. The why doesn't really matter, it's my choice.

    This is a foster kid, she is not responsible for making health decisions for it, so I'm not that outraged here.

  18. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    You mean like the one YOU shared where it compared the revenues of THE ENTIRE NATURAL FOODS INDUSTRY to the vaccine segment ALONE of Big Pharma, claiming that because an ENTIRE industry turned more revenues than a minor segment of pharmaceuticals, therefore they were crooked and profit-motivated more than Big Pharma?

    Monsanto and Whole Foods are roughly the same size, too.

  19. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    For $#@!s sake, stop with the pictures. It only serves to even further dum down your position.

    We have been through this about 1000 times. It is obvious that math isn't the bedrock of the anti-vaxxers arguments. And there's really no point in going through it again, because ideologues have no room for fact.

    For starts, the court is a no-fault system. To go on, 80 people out of MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS proves that the vaccine is overwhelmingly safe, not that it is obscenely dangerous. My guess is that those people had a genetic predisposition to something in the vaccines. And of course the number of people who die from the flu is literally 1000 times that number, and that number will rise if the anti-vaxxers keep peddling their lies as unchallenged truth.

    And finally . THIS THREAD ISN"T ABOUT VACCINES! It's about a woman who doesn't want to live up to the terms of a contract she voluntarily entered into.
    I apologize. I jumped in late here and thought I was addressing someone intelligent that didn't have to resort to ad hominem attacks and profanity. My bad....
    Last edited by Created4; 01-19-2015 at 03:41 PM. Reason: typo
    There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.
    (1 John 4:18)

  20. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Citizen View Post
    I'll tell you what, though. If there were things that I agree with angela on (and I'm certain that there are) I'd want her in my corner. She's freaking relentless, man. Damned ironwoman and whatnot.
    I'm more into truth, rational investigation, and the advancement of human knowledge. Mindless advocacy annoys me to no end, even (maybe especially) when it shares a common cause with me. Indeed, I have in the past, after encountering a mindless advocate for my cause, had to go back and reexamine my own cause not believing that any rational person could possibly behave like that, and if an irrational person agreed with me on something I had best re-do my research to make damn sure I wasn't off in left field myself. From that experience, I learned that irrational people can advocate for causes right and wrong alike.

  21. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    My kids and I don't get flu shots. I don't think they are good for us. The why doesn't really matter, it's my choice.

    This is a foster kid, she is not responsible for making health decisions for it, so I'm not that outraged here.
    Exactly.

  22. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Monsanto and Whole Foods are roughly the same size, too.
    That doesn't change the fact that you were trying to compare the revenues of the entire American Auto Industry with the revenues Japanese gearshift knobs to make the claim that that American Auto Industry was eviler and more profit motivated.

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...95#post5757795

  23. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by moostraks View Post
    Evidence of contract terms? Article states she has fostered before. Is this new conditions to her "employment" enforced unilaterally and outside of written terms she signed on to? Seems as though you are privy to the exact terms of her contract.
    Not my fault she didn't know the terms of fostering before she signed up. If you want to prove me wrong, you go right ahead. But I am not doing your homework for you.



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  25. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    That doesn't change the fact that you were trying to compare the revenues of the entire American Auto Industry with the revenues Japanese gearshift knobs to make the claim that that American Auto Industry was eviler and more profit motivated.

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...95#post5757795
    That doesn't even make sense. All we ever hear is that big pharma makes soooo much money proomoting vaccines......

  26. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    I'm more into truth, rational investigation, and the advancement of human knowledge. Mindless advocacy annoys me to no end, even (maybe especially) when it shares a common cause with me. Indeed, I have in the past, after encountering a mindless advocate for my cause, had to go back and reexamine my own cause not believing that any rational person could possibly behave like that, and if an irrational person agreed with me on something I had best re-do my research to make damn sure I wasn't off in left field myself. From that experience, I learned that irrational people can advocate for causes right and wrong alike.

    Yep. I went through that myself. Particularly with some of these labeling initiatives once I became involved with those. I don't particularly endorse government force there but I also don't endorse the practices of some of these industries penning legislation that specifically kills my right to know as well as state rights to protect their people from government intrusion while getting together with congressmen who are the largest recipients of their lobby money to go ahead and try to pass the mercantilist screed. It's a catch 22.

    In fact, I spent a lot of time educating people on what they ought to be trying to do instead of promoting government force. Will see how it goes in the coming initiatives, I suppose.

  27. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Yeah true. Maybe when the campaign gets started for real she and Donnay can volunteer to go door knocking together.
    I would never allow her to unknowingly spread disease on behalf of any campaign I worked on.

  28. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Citizen View Post
    Yep. I went through that myself. Particularly with some of these labeling initiatives once I became involved with those. I don't particularly endorse government force there but I also don't endorse the practices of some of these industries penning legislation that specifically kills my right to know as well as state rights to protect their people from government intrusion while getting together with congressmen who are the largest recipients of their lobby money to go ahead and try to pass the mercantilist screed. It's a catch 22.

    In fact, I spent a lot of time educating people on what they ought to be trying to do instead of promoting government force. Will see how it goes in the coming initiatives, I suppose.
    No facts.

  29. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Created4 View Post
    I apologize. I jumped in late here and thought I was addressing someone intelligent that didn't have to resort to ad hominem attacks and profanity. My bad....
    It isn't as ad homonem attack if it's true. Only on RPF is the truth considered some huge offense. Here, have a cartoon then:










    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails tumblr_nh7mmc54vB1szhpk3o9_1280.jpg   tumblr_nh7mmc54vB1szhpk3o2_1280.jpg  
    Last edited by angelatc; 01-19-2015 at 04:00 PM.

  30. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    So I will assume that you agree with me, in that we can't name any substance which isn't toxic because it's the dose that makes the poison. As with everything, Vitamin C does indeed have bad side effects at high doses.
    Wrong assumption. I just know you'll be obtuse about the truth no matter what. It's clear you're playing games. Again, find a quote where the FDA says vitamin C, fresh air, clean water or anything else is potentially as toxic as methylmecury. You won't because you can't. And you know you can't. Methylmercury is toxic in low doses. So the FDA is saying that thermirosol might be toxic in low doses. You know that. I know that. Quit playing games.

    In regard to the actual topic of the thread, there are flu vaccines that don't contain mercury. So the foster mother can't use that excuse anyway. Second, they aren't talking about giving the infant a shot.
    You realize that your second sentence just negated your first? No. I guess not. Here's the fact that you are missing. The mercury free vaccine is only available in limited quantity and is reserved for infants, children and pregnant women.

    A preservative-free version of the inactivated influenza vaccine (contains trace amounts of thimerosal) is available in limited supply at this time for use in infants, children and pregnant women.

    So she would have to give the mercury laden version of the vaccine to herself and older members of her household. (I'm not sure what all the ages were). All of this for a vaccine that only have a 33% chance of possibly working. Oh but the government forced her to sign a contract to participate in a program paid for with everybody's tax dollars so it must be okay.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  31. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    That doesn't even make sense. All we ever hear is that big pharma makes soooo much money proomoting vaccines......
    You are right. Nothing you say on this topic makes sense. Yet you keep saying it.

  32. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    No facts.
    Yeah, those are in the other, more relevant, thread. I was just agreeing with GunnyFreedom there with regard to what he was saying and the subject came to mind. In fact, I think I discussed the phenomenon thoroughly there. I'll probably be adding to it anyhow so I'll link you to it when I do. Probably in the coming week, I think. Actually, it may get you worked up a bit. Ought to be a hoot.



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  34. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    What you just said is that you have absolutely no facts to back up your opinion. I already understand that.

    What you posted has no relevance to the article, by the way.

    My view of liberty involves people actually being smart enough to separate fact from fiction and make intelligent decisions. The government thinks that we are too stupid to run our own lives. No point in trying to prove them right.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Again, no facts. Just opinion.
    Why bother giving you statistics that you have already been given on numerous occasions and can google yourself? You just seek desperately for attention to keep the argument going giving your petty, narcissistic views airtime. When you live in your alternate universe of "facts" you do not get the liberty to inflict your false paradigm upon others and claim it must be accepted when all you have managed to do here is bluster and spew hate while walking back your previous sweeping statements and generalizations. I am not impressed as others are by a petulant child such as yourself. Intelligence should be seen also as having a capacity for external compassion and not merely a regurgitation of statist propaganda. Where's your proof to your claims? My responses were directly tied to the foster parents claims in the article so stop shoveling your nonsensical claims of straw man and unrelated to the article. At least make some effort at coherent discussion.

    So you wanted to make claims about her contract, where is your proof? Why has she fostered before and adopted, and this is now a problem?
    We will be known forever by the tracks we leave. - Dakota


    Go Forward With Courage

    When you are in doubt, be still, and wait;
    when doubt no longer exists for you, then go forward with courage.
    So long as mists envelop you, be still;
    be still until the sunlight pours through and dispels the mists
    -- as it surely will.
    Then act with courage.

    Ponca Chief White Eagle

  35. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by moostraks View Post
    Why bother giving you statistics that you have already been given on numerous occasions and can google yourself??
    Which statistics are you referring to?

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