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Thread: Rand introduces bill to defund Palestinian foreign aid

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rudeman View Post
    Some of you guys are (mod edit), how many times do you have to see Rand do the same/similar thing and still not get what he's trying to do.

    If the goal is to cut foreign aid, which it is, and Rand knows it is politically unfeasible to do it all at once. So what does he do? He targets the low hanging fruit, he did the same thing with Egypt. If you eliminate all the other nations you'll be left with only Israel and maybe then people will wonder wtf are we giving them money. That is why the neocons oppose it because they know if Rand ever got the ball rolling it would be hard for them to make it stop.


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  3. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    Can you link to the roll call vote where Rand voted for foreign aid to Israel?
    I've already provided a link in the past to Rand's own mouth saying he did it. Was he lying?

    "I voted just this week to give money — more money — to the Iron Dome, so don’t mischaracterize my position on Israel."
    http://news.yahoo.com/rand-paul-says...193355206.html
    Last edited by jjdoyle; 01-07-2015 at 05:30 PM. Reason: added quote with link

  4. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by NOVALibertarian View Post
    Some of y'all need to stop being so dogmatic. Do you want to win? Be pragmatic.

    That picture of Rand at the Western Wall is ridiculously overblown. Just because he put on a hat and touched a wall doesn't mean he "sold out." Hell, whilst pretending to pray, he could instead be thinking about what he's having to eat when he gets back to the hotel. But I digress.

    Being labeled "Anti-Israel" is the kiss of death in the Republican Primary. Doing something like what Rand is doing doesn't give opponents a leg to stand on, especially when they'll lose their other leg by going on the record as against cutting off aid to Palestine. In a fight, Rand isn't losing to a double amputee.
    If Pragmatarianism had a record of success, I would endorse it. But it doesn't, so I can't. But I'm not really into electioneering anyway, so I guess I'll butt out now. ttyl.
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  5. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by jjdoyle View Post
    I've already provided a link in the past to Rand's own mouth saying he did it. Was he lying?

    http://news.yahoo.com/rand-paul-says...193355206.html
    Technically, he was lying. He didn't vote for that, since there was no roll call vote. It just passed by unanimous consent, which means that no one objected to it and forced a roll call vote on it. The bill passed without Rand or any other member of the Senate doing anything.



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  7. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by jjdoyle View Post
    So, Rand Paul's goal is to cut foreign aid to Palestine, so he can give more to Israel? If Rand had voted against that aid to Israel, this would be awesome. But instead, because of his own actions, he appears as nothing more than a panderer and weak.

    Sorry you find those of us that expect politicians to have consistent positions, dense.
    You can disagree with it all you want, it is simply a different tactic to accomplish the same thing. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity, correct? So why not try something different to see if it works? Maybe you should ask yourself why does AIPAC and other "pro Israel" folks oppose cutting aid to Palestine.

  8. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rudeman View Post
    You can disagree with it all you want, it is simply a different tactic to accomplish the same thing. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity, correct? So why not try something different to see if it works? Maybe you should ask yourself why does AIPAC and other "pro Israel" folks oppose cutting aid to Palestine.
    This is a great SHOW by Rand, to try and ward off the coming attacks should he run in 2016. I understand that 100%. I understand how Rand is going to get attacked if he runs for President. If the ads are produced like I believe they are, no amount of pandering on this will probably matter.

    Ron Paul had the right message and political record, and instead of embracing that when elected Rand is changing and abandoning positions because of potential attacks in 2016? Doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result could be said to be insanity, and Rand continuing to vote for more foreign aid to Israel is this exactly. Borrowing from China, to give to Israel, making us less safe and outright ignoring one of the the three reasons given for us being attacked on 9/11.

    Rand Paul not speaking out against foreign aid to Israel last year when he had the chance, but trying to against Palestine this year? Are you not aware of the 9/11 Israeli connection? It's classified, and maybe in those 9/11 Commission Report pages that are still classified that Rand hasn't read, but other members of Congress have like Walter Jones and Thomas Massie? They both voted against the Israeli foreign aid in the House.


    I'm all for ending ALL foreign aid, but especially to countries that when we give it to, it is used as propaganda to recruit extremist that may attack us. And especially to countries that may have known about the 9/11 attacks beforehand, and not warned us about them. This just seems EXTREMELY weak in my opinion (and as a MUCH BIGGER journalist pointed out) and nothing more than pandering for the sake of pandering from Rand.

    If I were AIPAC, I would push for MORE foreign aid bills in Congress (probably are anyway), because at this point Rand Paul might become their cheerleader in trying to get them passed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    Technically, he was lying. He didn't vote for that, since there was no roll call vote. It just passed by unanimous consent, which means that no one objected to it and forced a roll call vote on it. The bill passed without Rand or any other member of the Senate doing anything.
    Well, I have been saying Rand is either lying to us, or he is lying to them. Either way, he is lying.
    BUT, as for saying no one objected to it, one member did initially and blocked it:
    "On Thursday night, Republican Sen. Tom Coburn of Oklahoma blocked the Iron Dome funding requested by Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel because it would add to the budget deficit."

    http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/01/politi...ael-iron-dome/

    Wonder what would have happened had Tom Coburn had the support of Rand in blocking it?

  9. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by NOVALibertarian View Post
    Some of y'all need to stop being so dogmatic. Do you want to win? Be pragmatic.
    Winning is meaningless if we're going to be afraid to go after what we want to accomplish.

  10. #68
    Even though it's not going to happen, it would be a disaster to cut all aid to one side while continuing to fund the other. Especially if the side cut off is the one getting it's ass kicked all over the place. But it's not going to happen anyways. For some reason most Republicans hate welfare except when it goes to foreigners.

  11. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by cajuncocoa View Post
    Do you really believe Israel's defenders will oppose this bill?
    I think the bigger question is will Israel's defenders oppose Rand Paul 2016?

    And, imho that answer will be yes.

  12. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by scottditzen View Post
    I think the bigger question is will Israel's defenders oppose Rand Paul 2016?

    And, imho that answer will be yes.
    What do you think he should do to win them over?

  13. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    Foreign aid is a tiny non-issue that gets people riled up. It counts for 0% of the budget. It should get Supporting the Palestinians is one of those things along with liking Dennis Kucinich, Glenn Greenwald, Jesse Ventura, and Elizabeth Warren that I will never understand.
    I lived in Dennis Kucinich's district. There are many many stories of Dennis or his staff helping people with all kinds of issues. For instance, my friends mother was hospitalized and there was an insurance mixup so collections a-holes were calling his family non-stop. That is, until my friend had the opportunity to meet Dennis and tell him about it. Dennis said he'd handle it. And he did.

    Have you ever heard of any elected official doing something like this?

    Oh yeah, my friends family are all Republicans. I don't care for most of DK's politics, but by all accounts he's a very genuine person. Ron likes him. And his hot wife likes him too lol.

  14. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by cajuncocoa View Post
    What do you think he should do to win them over?
    Man, I honestly don't know what's going to make that contingent choose Rand over someone like Huckabee or Santorum on the R side.



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  16. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottditzen View Post
    Man, I honestly don't know what's going to make that contingent choose Rand over someone like Huckabee or Santorum on the R side.
    I can think of a few things:
    1) Move to Israel and/or get dual citizenship
    2) Volunteer to fight in their military
    3) Throw his father under the bus

    I think #3 is close to happening, and they are both already in that same boat I think with how Rand is distancing himself from Ron. Maybe Rand can get Ron to endorse the other guys running?

  17. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by scottditzen View Post
    Man, I honestly don't know what's going to make that contingent choose Rand over someone like Huckabee or Santorum on the R side.
    He can hire Charles Krauthammer as his campaign manager...
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  18. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by scottditzen View Post
    I think the bigger question is will Israel's defenders oppose Rand Paul 2016?

    And, imho that answer will be yes.
    That isn't exactly his target audience. When the "Israel defenders" end up going out of their way to defend foreign aid for Palestine, then hopefully average joe will question why they would do such a thing.


    I posted this in another thread, these people call themselves pro-Israel but in reality they are just progressives with an extremist view when it comes to foreign policy.

  19. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    Rand is nothing like his dad. Will that help him get elected? Probably. Will it do any good for "us?" To be determined...
    whatevs. He is a lot like his dad, just not exactly like him. You're factually incorrect on this one my lad.
    Ron wouldn't introduce this bill but I bet you he would vote for it.

  20. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by FriedChicken View Post
    whatevs. He is a lot like his dad, just not exactly like him. You're factually incorrect on this one my lad.
    Ron wouldn't introduce this bill but I bet you he would vote for it.
    I'd bet he wouldn't.

  21. #78
    Why shouldn't we vote to cut aid from Palestine? They are a foreign country.
    This post represents only the opinions of Christian Liberty and not the rest of the forum. Use discretion when reading

  22. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by scottditzen View Post
    Man, I honestly don't know what's going to make that contingent choose Rand over someone like Huckabee or Santorum on the R side.
    Why do you suppose that is? Isn't he working hard to show he supports Isreal just as fervently as the next GOP candidate?

  23. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by scottditzen View Post
    Man, I honestly don't know what's going to make that contingent choose Rand over someone like Huckabee or Santorum on the R side.
    It's not about winning over the Zionists. Unless he's a fool, Rand knows that he cannot win them over completely. It's about not giving them a leg to stand on when the inevitable "you don't stand with Israel as much as I do" attacks begin against him. When they commence, for example, Rand can point to him wanting to cut aid multiple times to Palestine, yet was rejected multiple times by those who claim to "stand with Israel." He can point to his record in the Senate of constantly voting in favor of Israel. It's a shame that Rand has to do such things, but he has no chance otherwise. This gives him a very real fighting chance.



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  25. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFanatic View Post
    Why shouldn't we vote to cut aid from Palestine? They are a foreign country.
    We should. But the reality is that we are funding both sides of a physical and political war. Cutting funding for one while continuing funding the other. Imagine how many dead people that we'll pay for. But like I said earlier. It won't happen. That's why Rand's doing this. He realizes most Republicans would love to kill off the Palestinians but also knows what it would do to other nations' opinions of us. The globalists in the GOP know this too and would never support this. He's pandering to Republican voters that want Palestinians dead while he knows this bill will never pass.

  26. #82
    Some of you folks will twist anything around to make Rand out to be some kind of political genius. This is him trying to punish the Palestinians for wanting to have international recognition in the ICC to bring well deserved charges against Bizrael, a Rothschild crime kingpin cutout operation for the hiding of stolen goods.. He ain't nothing like his father, and is a shill for the largest organized crime syndicate to ever hit this planet. Adelson is the Capo de tutti capo and Rothschild is the "godfather"..though god ain't appropriate for one that sets a dinner plate out for Satan at their family meals.He is not any kind of trojan horse for Americans. He is an anti-semite. He is an ego tripper looking to occupy the office of POTUS. He will fail hard and if he does squeak in there he will be useless to the purposes that this forum was originally created for.. the freedom of America and the rule of law adhering to Constitutional standards. Good luck with the pretzel twisting logic. Rand is ..need I say.. a drooldonkey. I will poke my head back in when he again makes his further descent into the pits of hell to reiterate what I said back in 2012 when he first visited the wailing wall..actually the remains of an old roman fort and not some temple wall or whatever it has some bogus religious significance of.. Seems to me it is a pagan shrine where funny looking dudes go and have intercourse with the demon Shekinah. May the Lord have mercy on his soul.

    Outta here before I get yuck all over my soul...
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  27. #83
    Sorry not all of us have an anti-Israel fetish. For all of those that say Rand is nothing like his father over this bill, all I would say in return is would Ron Paul support it? The answer would be yes of course but hey lets ignore that because it isn't anti-Israel and may *gasp* benefit Israel. It's kind of funny how some will get their panties in a twist over this issue (even going so low as to neg rep me over their own insecurity).

  28. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudeman View Post
    Sorry not all of us have an anti-Israel fetish. For all of those that say Rand is nothing like his father over this bill, all I would say in return is would Ron Paul support it? The answer would be yes of course but hey lets ignore that because it isn't anti-Israel and may *gasp* benefit Israel. It's kind of funny how some will get their panties in a twist over this issue (even going so low as to neg rep me over their own insecurity).
    I don't think Ron would support this bill.

  29. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Revolution9 View Post
    Outta here before I get yuck all over my soul...
    Rev9
    Theye have refused their Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

    Theye have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

    Theye kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies

    Theye have combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,

    For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

    For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

    Theye plundered and destroyed the lives of our people.

    Theye are at this time transporting Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized nation.

  30. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by cajuncocoa View Post
    I don't think Ron would support this bill.
    Why do you think that? All it does is stop/suspends funds we shouldn't be sending anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
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  31. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by cajuncocoa View Post
    I don't think Ron would support this bill.
    I'm sure he would support it. Ron was for less spending and less intervention overseas. He wasn't anti Israel. This is a bill that cuts spending and reduces our involvement overseas.

  32. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    I'm sure he would support it. Ron was for less spending and less intervention overseas. He wasn't anti Israel. This is a bill that cuts spending and reduces our involvement overseas.
    I'm sure he would support it too .



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  34. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by William Tell View Post
    Why do you think that? All it does is stop/suspends funds we shouldn't be sending anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    I'm sure he would support it. Ron was for less spending and less intervention overseas. He wasn't anti Israel. This is a bill that cuts spending and reduces our involvement overseas.
    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    I'm sure he would support it too .
    Because unless it ended ALL foreign aid he wouldn't support it. It has nothing to do with being pro- or anti-Israel. It's about foreign aid being Constitutional or not. Ron is a principled man; if this bill has language in it about keeping foreign aid going for Israel, I don't think he'd support it.

  35. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by cajuncocoa View Post
    Because unless it ended ALL foreign aid he wouldn't support it.
    You honestly believe that? Does anyone on this site believe that? That's like saying he would not support ending the NSA without ending the CIA. Or that he would vote against pulling out of Iraq because we would still be in South Korea. I don't believe that for a minute. I don't buy that Ron would just vote against every cut to aid until a bill comes up eliminating it all.

    Quote Originally Posted by cajuncocoa View Post
    It has nothing to do with being pro- or anti-Israel. It's about foreign aid being Constitutional or not. Ron is a principled man; if this bill has language in it about keeping foreign aid going for Israel, I don't think he'd support it.
    The bill only addresses Palestine. Foreign aid is wrong, period, we agree on that. I imagine Ron Paul would support a bill to end aid to any country. I for one would also cheer on a bill ending aid to Israel, regardless of whether it addressed Palestine in any way. Ending aid is good, period.
    Last edited by William Tell; 01-08-2015 at 01:36 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe




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