Police fatally shoot ‘sovereign citizen’ after he refuses to show ID when turning over stray a

[TheTexan]

Sounds like one of those right wing terrorists the DHS keeps warning us about.

[TheCount]

Like your answer to the question.

I have no idea how one would even answer a rhetorical question like that... if it even made sense. My assertion that the sovereign citizen movement is based on conspiracy theory and legal quackery has nothing to do with the SPLC. I could see his point if I accused them of being racist or anti-semitic. The original sovereign citizen movements were strongly racist, but I don't think current believers are racist. I think the SPLC still tracks them simply because of their origins.

[TheTexan]

The sovereign citizen movement is actually just a complex set of conspiracy theories, not an ideology of secession or the like.

You sound like you know what you're talking about. Thanks for the expert information on the subject of individuals being sovereign.

[TheTexan]

To prevent unsubstantiated animal cruelty, they shot an anti-government human to death.

Fixed that for you. It's an important distinction, because few people care when anti-government types get shot.

Normal people love government. If you're anti-government, you're some kind of crazy wacko.

[TheCount]

You sound like you know what you're talking about. Thanks for the expert information on the subject of individuals being sovereign.

Confusingly, individuals being sovereign and the sovereign citizen movement have absolutely nothing to do with each other.

[devil21]

Fixed that for you. It's an important distinction, because few people care when anti-government types get shot.

Normal people love government. If you're anti-government, you're some kind of crazy wacko.

Bank shills don't like sovereign man/woman (sovereign citizen is an oxymoron) discussions because being a lawful sovereign requires opting out of the banking and fiat money system entirely, cancelling the birth certificate and social security number issued in your legal corporate name, and redeeming the surety bond created when those tracking items are issued to you. Can't have that idea catching on, otherwise their system based on guaranteeing the currency and the national debt with your labor and assets as collateral goes under. I think most high level politicians and other movers-shakers are actually sovereigns themselves. That's why they never are arrested for crimes. As sovereigns, law (code, actually, which is nothing more than commercial rules) just doesn't apply to them. Think about it.

[RJB]

Fixed that for you.

Thanks.

[RJB]

might be cool to have a baseball card type set of $#@!ty cops to trade with other liberty lovers.

This is cracking me up. I'm seeing it more as a statist tool with kids trading baseball card but instead with pictures of cops. with stats on the back: # of crack skulls. % of unarmed victims shot etc. The higher the brutality stats = better overall protective and efficiency rating.

[TheCount]

Bank shills don't like sovereign person (sovereign citizen is an oxymoron) discussions because being a lawful sovereign requires opting out of the banking and fiat money system entirely, cancelling the birth certificate and social security number issued in your legal corporate name, and redeeming the surety bond created when those tracking items are issued to you.

Ignoring that it's all bull$#@!, 'opting out of the system entirely' is a pretty strong term for 'write magical phrases on your checks and money.'

[osan]

Robert Earl Lawrence did this to himself.

-FrankRep

[osan]

But that would require a degree of humility, and HUMANITY on the part of the cop, and we just can't have that now, can we? People might think he's "weak", and then all his childhood insecurities will come rushing back and next thing you know he's crying under his bed.

Thread winner.

/thread.

[fisharmor]

/thread.

Not quite yet, there's one more thing about this (at the very least) which we need to work on here.

Let's stop using the plantation owner's words to describe these events.
The cop did not "fatally shoot" this man. (What the hell does that even mean? It doesn't really make syntactic sense.)
The cop did not "discharge his weapon" whereupon the man was "struck by a bullet".

A law enforcer murdered a man.

[devil21]

Ignoring that it's all bull$#@!, 'opting out of the system entirely' is a pretty strong term for 'write magical phrases on your checks and money.'

You sure do love building strawmen, pun intended.

[ChristianAnarchist]

Goons gonna goon... I guess the best way to leave an animal at the shelter is to put it in a strong box and leave it at the front door...

[mrsat_98]

The sovereign citizen movement is actually just a complex set of conspiracy theories, not an ideology of secession or the like.

Where you having another Morris Dees movement ?

[osan]

Not quite yet, there's one more thing about this (at the very least) which we need to work on here.

Let's stop using the plantation owner's words to describe these events.
The cop did not "fatally shoot" this man. (What the hell does that even mean? It doesn't really make syntactic sense.)
The cop did not "discharge his weapon" whereupon the man was "struck by a bullet".

A law enforcer murdered a man.

Point taken. The terminology has arisen due to Theire discomfort with truth. Obviously, it is designed to mitigate the blow by deflection and make appear valid that which is plainly criminal. It's what Theye DO.

[osan]

Where you having another Morris Dees movement ?

Is that some type of bowel product?

[mrsat_98]

Is that some type of bowel product?

Morris Dees or THE COUNTS comment or both.

[DamianTV]

Brave New 1984

[osan]

This is what I mean when I talk about things you have to put up with to avoid being shot by the police. Having to show your ID for turning in a stray animal? That's a reasonable thing to not want to do, but apparently you're not allowed to stick up for your rights if you don't want to be shot.

Something, though, is here missing. I go into a shelter with a stray. They demand my ID. What do I do? I turn and leave, either with or without the animal. What can they do? If they put uninvited hands on me, I joint lock them or put them on the wrong end of a muzzle, which would REALLY suck, but what other choice is there beside capitulating to the little tyrants?

Unless the police are in the same (small) building, how could they arrive in time to shoot this guy? If he simply stood around waiting for police, that would suggest to me he was seeking the argument that he got. In that case, he tempted fate and came up snake-eyes.

Something essential has been omitted from this story. Has to have been because the elements are not adding up.

[osan]

Brave New 1984

Great title for a book.

[phill4paul]

I have re-read the article. It is explained in full that he was a scofflaw, a terrorist, anti-government, etc. However, nowhere in this article do I read were this individual was armed. Perhaps, I merely read past that part of the article. If this is not an example of circular force continuum then I don't know of one. Wrestling or fisticuffs now calls for an armed and lethal response.

Well, seems there is a reason that he was not armed. When engaging the enemy it is perhaps best not to lock away your firearm.

Lawsuit: Police Wrongly Killed Man at Alabama Animal Shelter

A federal lawsuit claims that police in Dothan, Alabama, needlessly killed a man who had gone to an animal shelter to drop off a stray dog.

Dothan police were called to the shelter when Robert Earl Lawrence refused to show his driver license to the shelter's staff on Dec. 30, 2014, according to the lawsuit, filed by the dead man's estate. Police have said Lawrence considered himself "a sovereign citizen."

Dothan police Officer Chris Summerlin was the first to arrive, and "took Lawrence to the ground," the lawsuit states. Summerlin then let him up without cuffing him, and Lawrence continued to refuse to provide his ID "based on his personal convictions and beliefs," the lawsuit said.

"Lawrence put his hands up and backed away from Summerlin in order to avoid being arrested," the lawsuit states.

Summerlin then deployed his stun gun on Lawrence. Officer Adrian Woodruff arrived to help, drew her weapon and shot Lawrence in the abdomen, according to the suit. Lawrence later died of the gunshot wound.

Dothan's city attorney declined to comment Tuesday, and lawyers who filed the lawsuit didn't immediately respond to requests for comment.

Police have said that Lawrence, 30, became disorderly after being told he couldn't leave the dog at the shelter without showing identification.

The so-called sovereign citizen movement includes many who believe they're immune to most state and federal laws, including paying taxes and getting driver's licenses.

In a news release shortly after the shooting, Dothan police said Lawrence was repeatedly told to calm down, and was then told he was being placed under arrest. A physical altercation then took place, and he was shot, police said at the time.

Lawrence had committed no crimes, and wasn't under any obligation to show his license, the lawsuit said.

The lawsuit acknowledges that Lawrence "resisted the arrest," but states that he didn't assault or try to assault the police officers. Lawrence "openly carries a handgun," but had removed his gun and put it in the glovebox of his vehicle when the first officer arrived, the lawsuit states.

"There was no basis for Woodruff to even draw her gun, let alone shoot Lawrence," it states.

In July, prosecutors said that a grand jury declined to indict the officer and that no charges would be filed.

Evidence in the case includes video "clearly showing that Lawrence's rights were violated," the lawsuit states. That video has never been made public.

Unlike many high-profile police shootings across the country in recent years, the lawsuit makes no allegations involving the race of anyone involved. Lawrence was white, according to court records. Police haven't specified the races of the officers.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/l...elter-44530342

[Schifference]

SCLM

[fisharmor]

Nice to know, if your breadwinner gets murdered, you can spend 3+ years of your life filing lawsuits, thousands and thousands on legal fees, and eventually the federal government will make the county use tax money you partially paid for to shave five years off of your retirement plan.

Justice is served.

[Anti Federalist]

Unlike many high-profile police shootings across the country in recent years, the lawsuit makes no allegations involving the race of anyone involved. Lawrence was white, according to court records. Police haven't specified the races of the officers.

Like most victims of police abuse and killings, he was white.

Explains why it was not "high profile" now, doesn't it?

[Dr.3D]

Kinda looks like Soros can't afford to do All Lives Matter. That would cost more than twice as much.

[ChristianAnarchist]

Kinda looks like Soros can't afford to do All Lives Matter. That would cost more than twice as much.

If they were honest they would admit that NO LIVES MATTER. Not even blue lives...