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Thread: Eric Garner choking - criminally negligent homicide

  1. #1

    Eric Garner choking - criminally negligent homicide

    Okay. I'm posting this thread because I'm tired of people saying that "Well the cop did't mean to kill Eric Garner so he should have gotten off."

    Folks, you have to realize that in the U.S. there are 3 different types of murder. First degree murder is who you had premedidated intent to kill someone. Second degree murder is when you kill someone in the heat of the moment. The classic case of that is when you find your significant other in bed with someone else and you kill one or both of them. The there is third degree murder. That's when you intentionally do something that recklessly puts someone else's life in danger and they die as a result. You get drunk and drive and you kill someone? They may charge you with "vehicular homicide" but basically it's third degree murder. You leave an infant in a car in 100 degree heat for 5 hours and he dies? Third degree murder. You sell drugs that have been cut with rat poison? You can argue that you weren't trying to kill your own customers but you were just trying to make a dishonest buck. It's still third degree murder. Here is the statute in New York.

    http://ypdcrime.com/penal.law/article125.htm#p125.10
    S 125.10 Criminally negligent homicide.
    A person is guilty of criminally negligent homicide when, with
    criminal negligence, he causes the death of another person.
    Criminally negligent homicide is a class E felony.


    And what is the definition of "criminal negligence?"

    http://ypdcrime.com/penal.law/article15.htm#p15.05
    4. "Criminal negligence." A person acts with criminal negligence with
    respect to a result or to a circumstance described by a statute defining
    an offense when he fails to perceive a substantial and unjustifiable
    risk that such result will occur or that such circumstance exists. The
    risk must be of such nature and degree that the failure to perceive it
    constitutes a gross deviation from the standard of care that a
    reasonable person would observe in the situation.


    So...let's apply the law to the facts.

    Fact 1. Eric Garner was put in a choke hold. It was not an "MMA-takedown" hold. From that position you can either choke someone by pulling your inner elbow back against their trachea, or you can "strangle" them by pressing your arms together and cutting off their carotid arteries. Cutting off the arteries is technically a strangle as opposed to a choke, but both can be deadly. Also the cop jumped on Garner's back and wrapped his legs around Garner. That is called "Putting your hooks in". You cannot merely "take someone down" from that position as you have no leverage on the ground. All you can do from that position is go for the choke or the strangle. Whether you do the choke or the strangle, the move is called a "rear naked choke".

    Here is an explanation of the choke.



    And here is an example of a standing rear naked choke in action. (That's what Garner was in when he was killed).



    Fact 2. The choke used against Eric Garner is goes against department policy.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...l-being-filed/
    This is what the NYPD patrol guide says, per the New York Law Journal:

    Members of the New York City Police Department will NOT use chokeholds. A chokehold shall include, but is not limited to, any pressure to the throat or windpipe, which may prevent or hinder breathing or reduce intake of air.


    There you go. Key words here "Any pressure to the throat or windpipe which may prevent or hinder breathing or reduce air intake! Idiots like Peter King who say "I you can talk you an breath" need to let me put that hold on them while they are talking! When in a choke hold it is easier to force air out (and thus still talk) than it is to breath air in. Besides, even if you can still breath, as long as your breathing is even restricted by the hold, or even potentially restricted by the hold, it is an illegal choke hold under New York police policy.

    Fact 3. The cop intended to put Eric Garner in that hold.

    The fact in the video the cop put his hooks in confirms this.

    Fact 4. The coroner determined the choke hold to be a primary cause of Eric Garner's death.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/...icle-1.1888808
    Eric Garner, the Staten Island dad who complained that he couldn’t breathe as he was subdued by cops, died from compression of the neck, the medical examiner said Friday.

    The autopsy also found that compressions to the chest and “prone positioning during physical restraint by police” killed Garner. The manner of death, according to the medical examiner, was homicide.


    Applying these facts to the law I defy anyone to give a rational explanation as to why there as no indictment for criminally negligent homicide. Even George W. Bush is unable to blindly side with the police on this one.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.



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  3. #2
    Anybody that cares for the facts already knows this. Those that want the facts to fit with their copsucker worldview will ignore this thread.

  4. #3
    Applying these facts to the law I defy anyone to give a rational explanation as to why there as no indictment for criminally negligent homicide. Even George W. Bush is unable to blindly side with the police on this one.
    Fact: FFoCs
    "IF GOD DIDN'T WANT TO HELP AMERICA, THEN WE WOULD HAVE Hillary Clinton"!!
    "let them search you,touch you,violate your Rights,just don't be a dick!"~ cdc482
    "For Wales. Why Richard, it profits a man nothing to give his soul for the whole world. But for Wales?"
    All my life I've been at the mercy of men just following orders... Never again!~Erik Lehnsherr
    There's nothing wrong with stopping people randomly, especially near bars, restaurants etc.~Velho

  5. #4
    Just another case of "its not illegal if the government does it"
    Out of every one hundred men they send us, ten should not even be here. Eighty will do nothing but serve as targets for the enemy. Nine are real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, upon them depends our success in battle. But one, ah the one, he is a real warrior, and he will bring the others back from battle alive.

    Duty is the most sublime word in the English language. Do your duty in all things. You can not do more than your duty. You should never wish to do less than your duty.

  6. #5
    It wouldn't matter if he beat him into a bloody pulp with a baton after he lost consciousness, they would still defend him.
    "The Patriarch"

  7. #6
    You guys are all right. I just get tired of having to repeat the obvious over and over again. So I started this thread so I could link to it the next time I hear some weaksauce argument defending the grand jury outcome.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  8. #7
    What would happen if an MMA fight took place and a fighter put a choke on another and killed him. Would the fighter get charged in the death? Should a choke hold be banned from MMA fighting and only reserved for mortal combat?

  9. #8
    It's been in my sig for like four years.
    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    What would happen if an MMA fight took place and a fighter put a choke on another and killed him. Would the fighter get charged in the death? Should a choke hold be banned from MMA fighting and only reserved for mortal combat?
    First off, like I said, in an MMA fight a ref would have broken up the fight as soon as one fighter said "I can't breathe." Eric Garner said "I can't breathe" about 5 times if I recall correctly. He definitely said it multiple times. Second at MMA fights there are medical doctors on standby to give immediate medical attention. And third, look at your own avatar. All of of the punches that messed up Kelly Thomas' face are legal in the MMA. But it's not legal to do it once the person has tapped out or said "I've had enough" or have become unresponsive. In other words, non of the safety factors that allow chokes to happen in the MMA were present here. Good question though. I think the cop probably watched a lot of MMA, did some MMA training (clearly), and made his own judgement call that it would be okay. He was wrong.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.



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