Term limits on :Police Commissioners;Chiefs ; and Cops

[CaptainAmerica]

What are your opinions? also rank, is it necessary to have police chiefs or ranks? Educational standards , and requirements such as not being ex military ,ex private security(pre-existing ptsd problems arise) should be required of both recruits and anyone in the department. Term limits to prevent corruption within from growing over time, and to reduce the amount of time any given person can spend behind a badge and gun while suffering ptsd . With term limits of 2 to 4 wyears max I think it would be more difficult for people committing crimes under the badge to get away with crimes. It would be easier for state prosecutors to actually prosecute crimes committed by police since they would no longer share long term relationships as partners incarcerating the masses for publicity or profit.Look at thr usa prison incarceration rates compared to the world...something needs to desperately change and soon . What are your thoughts on this anyone?

[fisharmor]

Term limit for all police chiefs, police commissioners, police officers, police dogs, police forensic investigators, police detectives, police SWAT teams, and every other job with the word "police" in the title:

Zero Terms Maximum

[Henry Rogue]

What are your opinions? also rank, is it necessary to have police chiefs or ranks? Educational standards , and requirements such as not being ex military ,ex private security(pre-existing ptsd problems arise) should be required of both recruits and anyone in the department. Term limits to prevent corruption within from growing over time, and to reduce the amount of time any given person can spend behind a badge and gun while suffering ptsd . With term limits of 2 to 4 wyears max I think it would be more difficult for people committing crimes under the badge to get away with crimes. It would be easier for state prosecutors to actually prosecute crimes committed by police since they would no longer share long term relationships as partners incarcerating the masses for publicity or profit.Look at thr usa prison incarceration rates compared to the world...something needs to desperately change and soon . What are your thoughts on this anyone?

Why not term limits for prosecutors and judges too?

Not sure how term limits prevent civil forfeiture or dead pets or beat downs or murders. Presidents have had term limits since FDR and that hasn't stopped presidents from committing crime.

[CaptainAmerica]

Why not term limits for prosecutors and judges too?

Not sure how term limits prevent civil forfeiture or dead pets or beat downs or murders. Presidents have had term limits since FDR and that hasn't stopped presidents from committing crime.

yes I agree on those , term limits as well...but the topic is cop departments. Term limits =it will not be a career and whatever they do is going to be publically known and on the record for future employers if that is the public service they choose. No more careering out of the judicial branch.

[CaptainAmerica]

Anyone else have suggestions instead of just complaining?

[CaptainAmerica]

"

If we want to reduce corruption by the powerful, there is no substitute for statutory term limits.

Term limits put the cuffs on presidents (eight years), Oklahoma governors (eight years) and state lawmakers (12 years).

Why not put the cuffs (12 years) on those who carry handcuffs (the police)?

Folks want to be cops so they can be powerful, and it is natural to abuse it.

British statesman Edmund Burke said, “Those who have once been intoxicated with power can never willingly abandon it.”

Asked at what point do you become corrupt, the wife of a Tulsa politician said, “The first ten minutes you have power.” How power corrupts cops:

1. “Little Nixons.” Veteran cops are experts in covering up crimes committed by their buddies on the force. An undercover FBI sting was necessary to uncover Tulsa police corruption, leading to four officers receiving prison sentences.

2. Money hungry. Raids on drug dealers turn up a lot of cash. It is very tempting for officers to steal some of the money and turn in the rest. During a federal court trial, former officer John K. “J.J.” Gray was asked why he was stealing money. Gray replied, “Greed.”

3. Lying. Until indictments were released, the Tulsa police had no policy against lying on reports. Now, the department has a “you lie, you die” policy leading to terminations."

http://www.muskogeephoenix.com/opini...c17d21882.html

[kcchiefs6465]

Anyone else have suggestions instead of just complaining?

Yes, the concept of modern policing should be abolished.

Those who use their services should be ones paying for their services. Any authority granted to the police that people do not legitimately already have needs removed.

[CaptainAmerica]

Yes, the concept of modern policing should be abolished.

Those who use their services should be ones paying for their services. Any authority granted to the police that people do not legitimately already have needs removed.

private military in the states are also a threat to liberty are they not?

[tod evans]

It's not 'just' kops that are the problem, it's the entire corrupt and incestious "Just-Us" system...

The judges and lawyers, the prisons and all the various minions who support them..

Changing one tooth in one cog might cause the machine to buck and lurch every rotation but it's certainly not going to stop it....

[kcchiefs6465]

private military in the states are also a threat to liberty are they not?

Perhaps I wasn't descriptive enough.

Each individual has the right, and indeed the obligation, for their own defense and the enforcement of law. In society there would be those that need assistance for whatever reason. Be it they're frail, unable to defend themselves, whatever. If they so chose, and if the demand was high enough, there would be private companies or even individuals available to help them with regards to protection if the need arose. Say a battered wife does not feel comfortable in defending herself appropriately, or is unable to for whatever reason, there could be people available to defend her rights if the need arose. The important thing is that said individuals are recognized as having no more rights than she. We are all born with the same rights, a badge and a collective's grant of authority means nothing, or at least, ought not mean anything. Another important caveat of 'policing' within a free society would be that no one is taken from forcibly to fund the protection of others. It is immoral and ought not be tolerated.

There would also be individuals such as myself who would help in a situation such as spousal abuse, whatever free of charge simply because that is how society should operate. In my ideal society, more people would be armed, the laws of self-defense more sensible, and the average criminal aware that robbing 'A,' 'B,' or 'C,' just wasn't worth the probable bullet he could well receive. And I'd like to think a culling would lawfully and continuously occur.

I am talking about something fundamentally different than 'policing.'

[CaptainAmerica]

It's not 'just' kops that are the problem, it's the entire corrupt and incestious "Just-Us" system...

The judges and lawyers, the prisons and all the various minions who support them..

Changing one tooth in one cog might cause the machine to buck and lurch every rotation but it's certainly not going to stop it....

yes I agree the entire judiciary is corrupted, but I have also read a little about the history of police unions and how they began post ww1, and attempted to take over departments with failed attempts until post ww2. The document I read was at this website https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/publicatio....aspx?ID=48128

"MANY ELECTED OFFICIALS RECOGNIZED THAT POLICE OFFICERS WERE TAKING A MORE MILITANT STANCE, AND SAW THAT IT COULD BE HAZARDOUS TO OPPOSE THEM. "

If my theory is correct that power does not come from the top down but from the bottom upward, then the illusion would be that cops have no control over the judiciary...but this statement in a historical document about police unions supports my argument.

[Christian Liberty]

Term limit for all police chiefs, police commissioners, police officers, police dogs, police forensic investigators, police detectives, police SWAT teams, and every other job with the word "police" in the title:

Zero Terms Maximum

lol! I would love to see that happen. But even if that wasn't possible, limiting them to 4 years or so would definitely make a difference.

"

If we want to reduce corruption by the powerful, there is no substitute for statutory term limits.

Term limits put the cuffs on presidents (eight years), Oklahoma governors (eight years) and state lawmakers (12 years).

Why not put the cuffs (12 years) on those who carry handcuffs (the police)?

Folks want to be cops so they can be powerful, and it is natural to abuse it.

British statesman Edmund Burke said, “Those who have once been intoxicated with power can never willingly abandon it.”

Asked at what point do you become corrupt, the wife of a Tulsa politician said, “The first ten minutes you have power.” How power corrupts cops:

1. “Little Nixons.” Veteran cops are experts in covering up crimes committed by their buddies on the force. An undercover FBI sting was necessary to uncover Tulsa police corruption, leading to four officers receiving prison sentences.

2. Money hungry. Raids on drug dealers turn up a lot of cash. It is very tempting for officers to steal some of the money and turn in the rest. During a federal court trial, former officer John K. “J.J.” Gray was asked why he was stealing money. Gray replied, “Greed.”

3. Lying. Until indictments were released, the Tulsa police had no policy against lying on reports. Now, the department has a “you lie, you die” policy leading to terminations."

http://www.muskogeephoenix.com/opini...c17d21882.html

If the lie is about a capital crime, the "you lie you die" should be taken literally, since it would be akin to murder.

[CaptainAmerica]

Checks and balances within the judicial system are so delicate that the only real solution I seem to see as realistic is to limit all judiciary and law enforcement under a term,and limit their maximum years of service . Also enable the petition within precincts to have the ability to put a charge against "official" suspects into a municipal court outside their own precinct. Im brainstorming solutions

[CaptainAmerica]

bump

[JK/SEA]

We should form a citizen accountabilty committee with representatives from each State, and have a Police Accountabilty Convention to discuss, and to send a message with some teeth in the new reforms voted on. This MIGHT...emphasis on 'might', get some attention and get the ball rolling. Of course the devil is in the details, but i'm sure we would have no trouble finding Patriots to step up, and help with this....

[CaptainAmerica]

@JK/Sea

it wouldn't work, the unions would just control that too.

[Dr.3D]

Just eliminate the unelected police and go back to the elected Sheriff and his deputies.

When the deputies do enough things people don't like and the sheriff doesn't correct what they are doing, he gets kicked out and a new sheriff gets elected.

Someone has to be accountable and police have no one to hold accountable.

[navy-vet]

Checks and balances within the judicial system are so delicate that the only real solution I seem to see as realistic is to limit all judiciary and law enforcement under a term,and limit their maximum years of service . Also enable the petition within precincts to have the ability to put a charge against "official" suspects into a municipal court outside their own precinct. Im brainstorming solutions

One problem I see with this idea is that a good detective requires years of experience to hone their skills and develop their instincts. Without these folks, there would likely be a whole lot more serial killers feeding off us.
Not to discourage further brainstormin....

[navy-vet]

Just eliminate the unelected police and go back to the elected Sheriff and his deputies.

When the deputies do enough things people don't like and the sheriff doesn't correct what they are doing, he gets kicked out and a new sheriff gets elected.

Someone has to be accountable and police have no one to hold accountable.

That sounds practical....
No stinkin unions either.

[kcchiefs6465]

Just eliminate the unelected police and go back to the elected Sheriff and his deputies.

When the deputies do enough things people don't like and the sheriff doesn't correct what they are doing, he gets kicked out and a new sheriff gets elected.

Someone has to be accountable and police have no one to hold accountable.

That would ostensibly be well and good with a general populace that were able to read the Constitution.

They elected Barack Obama. Twice. What makes podunk sheriff unable to secure a similar result?

Tyrannize the right people, enforce the "right" "laws."

[Dr.3D]

That would ostensibly be well and good with a general populace that were able to read the Constitution.

They elected Barack Obama. Twice. What makes podunk sheriff unable to secure a similar result?

Tyrannize the right people, enforce the "right" "laws."

Well, then at least the people can only blame themselves.

[kcchiefs6465]

Well, then at least the people can only blame themselves.

The "people"?

Or the individual?

[Dr.3D]

The "people"?

Or the individual?

I guess it doesn't really matter. If you don't what any say at all, that's fine with me. I'm not going to be living that much longer anyway so I don't really care.
Just thought having the people elect those who do the policing might be better than what we have now.

[kcchiefs6465]

I guess it doesn't really matter. If you don't what any say at all, that's fine with me. I'm not going to be living that much longer anyway so I don't really care.
Just thought having the people elect those who do the policing might be better than what we have now.

What we have now is what the people approved of. I'm not overly optimistic that their opinions with consequence will better.

I have no say regardless. My one nay is drowned in the pool of public opinion.

I could maybe get a pin that I voted (for one of the lesser of two evils outside of the purview of how society should act). Yay.

[Dr.3D]

What we have now is what the people approved of. I'm not overly optimistic that their opinions with consequence will better.

I have no say regardless. My one nay is drowned in the pool of public opinion.

I could maybe get a pin that I voted (for one of the lesser of two evils outside of the purview of how society should act). Yay.

So why do you even participate in threads like this? Do you just like to make others feel like what they are doing is useless?

[kcchiefs6465]

So why do you even participate in threads like this? Do you just like to make others feel like what they are doing is useless?

This is the political philosophy subforum.

I [needlessly] apologize if the realism rains on parades.

Why do I participate in threads such as these? The answer is simple. Because mentalities such as your's are ever found here, of all places. You aren't the only person who may read what I type, you know?

The police ought be abolished. The entire concept.

Electing fascist sheriffs, as they already do, does nothing to further the cause of freedom. But just vote with your feet, or become more active is all that can be expected from your argument.

As if the one is workable within a given community which adores the restriction. For two, as if this is some phenomenon confined to New York or California.

[Dr.3D]

This is the political philosophy subforum.

I [needlessly] apologize if the realism rains on parades.

Why do I participate in threads such as these? The answer is simple. Because mentalities such as your's are ever found here, of all places. You aren't the only person who may read what I type, you know?

The police ought be abolished. The entire concept.

Electing fascist sheriffs, as they already do, does nothing to further the cause of freedom. But just vote with your feet, or become more active is all that can be expected from your argument.

As if the one is workable within a given community which adores the restriction. For two, as if this is some phenomenon confined to New York or California.

Oh, okay.... I guess I'm the one who should be asking myself why I am here.

Carry on.

[navy-vet]

Words are singularly the most powerful force available to humanity. We can choose to use this force constructively with words of encouragement, or destructively using words of despair. Words have energy and power with the ability to help, to heal, to hinder, to hurt, to harm, to humiliate and to humble.
Yehuda Berg

[CaptainAmerica]

One problem I see with this idea is that a good detective requires years of experience to hone their skills and develop their instincts. Without these folks, there would likely be a whole lot more serial killers feeding off us.
Not to discourage further brainstormin....

Leave detective work up to private detectics duh.They are investigators.

[CaptainAmerica]

That sounds practical....
No stinkin unions either.

Just eliminate the unelected police and go back to the elected Sheriff and his deputies.

When the deputies do enough things people don't like and the sheriff doesn't correct what they are doing, he gets kicked out and a new sheriff gets elected.

Someone has to be accountable and police have no one to hold accountable.

This is the political philosophy subforum.

I [needlessly] apologize if the realism rains on parades.

Why do I participate in threads such as these? The answer is simple. Because mentalities such as your's are ever found here, of all places. You aren't the only person who may read what I type, you know?

The police ought be abolished. The entire concept.

Electing fascist sheriffs, as they already do, does nothing to further the cause of freedom. But just vote with your feet, or become more active is all that can be expected from your argument.

As if the one is workable within a given community which adores the restriction. For two, as if this is some phenomenon confined to New York or California.

I agree with abolishing them, but unfortunately 99 precent of people or so it seems would much rather arm someone else to "protect" them while they sleep and walk about "freely"