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Thread: Rand Paul Breaks With Rubio and Bush Over Cuba

  1. #1

    Rand Paul Breaks With Rubio and Bush Over Cuba

    http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elec...r-cuba-n270986
    Rand Paul Breaks With Rubio and Bush Over Cuba

    Kentucky Sen. Rand Paul is the latest potential presidential candidate to weigh in on policy changes to Cuba and the libertarian leaning Republican's position splits from other Republicans who are also considering a presidential run.
    Paul told Tom Roten of News Talk 800 in West Virginia that the 50-year embargo "just hasn't worked" and normalizing relations with the island nation is "probably a good idea."



    "If the goal is regime change, it sure doesn't seem to be working and probably it punishes the people more than the regime because the regime can blame the embargo for hardship," he said.
    Potential challengers, Jeb Bush and Sen. Marco Rubio, both of Florida, denounced President Barack Obama's decision to open diplomatic and economic ties with Cuba. Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas also slammed the deal.
    Bush called it a "misstep" that "undermines America's credibility and undermines the quest for a free and democratic Cuba."
    And Rubio, the son of Cuban immigrants, vowed to use his role as incoming chairman of a Foreign Relations subcommittee to block progress on policy.
    "The White House has conceded everything," Rubio said, calling the policy "disgraceful."
    Paul, who has often bumps heads with members of his party over foreign policy, expressed a similar position to another potential presidential candidate, Hillary Clinton.
    "Despite good intentions, our decades-long policy of isolation has only strengthened the Castro regime's grip on power," Clinton said in a statement. "As I have said, the best way to bring change to Cuba is to expose its people to the values, information, and material comforts of the outside world."

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

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  3. #2
    Good.

    Now our libertarian and Tea Party politicians should make it clear that there will be no special or extraordinary privileges given to Cuba either. No boatloads of immigration, and not a penny of taxpayer aid!
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

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    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    No boatloads of immigration, and not a penny of taxpayer aid!
    So eliminate the dry feet policy? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet_feet,_dry_feet_policy

  5. #4
    Interesting that both this and the abc article both try to tie the position as agreeing with Hillary.
    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireS...-idea-27691959

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    Interesting that both this and the abc article both try to tie the position as agreeing with Hillary.
    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireS...-idea-27691959
    New York Times also carried that same AP article as the abc report you cite.
    Brawndo's got what plants crave. Its got electrolytes.



    H. L. Mencken said it best:


    “Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.”


    "As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

  7. #6

    #RandPaul: Opening up Cuba 'probably a good idea' -

    #RandPaul: Opening up Cuba 'probably a good idea' - #RonPaul http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/ 2014/dec/18/rand-paul-opening-up-cuba-probably-a-good-idea/?utm_source=RSS_Feed&utm_medium=RSS
    Last edited by NACBA; 12-18-2014 at 02:20 PM.

  8. #7
    Rand Paul should be asking Rubio and Bush why they are being Isolationists?

  9. #8
    So the public finally gets to see another Republican who doesn't sound like an establishment shill.



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  11. #9
    A direct link to that rag? And all it's doing is parroting the AP, while we have links to the actual radio show all over the site?

    Bad form. Break that link.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    Interesting that both this and the abc article both try to tie the position as agreeing with Hillary.
    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireS...-idea-27691959
    There's no doubt they loved writing that article and that headline. Bush and Rubio are the two most popular neoconservative, moderate, establishment shill candidates that are thinking about running. The media figures those two cover the biggest GOP demographics of a) low info establishment voters, and b) low info "Tea Party" types who don't what a shill Rubio is.

    They are creating a false narrative and choice within the GOP. Bush vs. Rubio. Establishment vs. Tea Party. A fake contest, with two RINO neoconservatives.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  13. #11
    Listening to Rush on the radio he described Rand as trying to stake out a different position than Jeb, although he may support it.

    My take is that right now with everything going on Rand needs to balance out how we interact with oppressive regimes considering North Korea cyber attacks. They will label Rand as weak unless he gets ahead of the issue.

  14. #12
    Well, there goes the south Florida vote.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by twomp View Post
    Rand Paul should be asking Rubio and Bush why they are being Isolationists?
    +rep

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    Yep. Get rid of it. No special privileges.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  17. #15
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  18. #16
    But I thought Rand was an isolationist, and "mainstream" Republicans weren't! How terribly confusing.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    A direct link to that rag? And all it's doing is parroting the AP, while we have links to the actual radio show all over the site?

    Bad form. Break that link.
    More trollish than cooperative little spammer, isn't he?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  21. #18
    I've posted original audio of the interview on my website: http://iroots.org/2014/12/18/audio-r...ocons-on-cuba/

    Rand Paul has taken a temporarily unpopular (within the Republican establishment) position on normalizing relations with Cuba–breaking rank with all of the neocons. Senator Paul deserves credit for embarking on a brave stance on this issue against the illogical and hypocritical grain of the current tough-talking Republican establishment. Can you imagine those opposing free markets with Cuba calling for stopping trade to Saudi Arabia and China–talk about human rights abuses!
    My website: iroots.org Looking for folks to help write about activism...
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  22. #19
    http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/video/3949008632001

    Rand fuxxked up on this one. Cuba is a hellhole and no amount of trade lifting is going to help the average Cuban citizen. Castros are smart and they win this round. Obama is a complete idiot in foreign relations.

    South Florida is now out of the picture for Rand in a primary. Jeb or Rubio. Bye Bye Rand. You may remain Senator (if only run for that ) but wont be prez in 2016.

    Take some lessons and learn from some real Cubans what life is like there before saying this is a good deal.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by rodo1776 View Post
    http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/video/3949008632001

    Rand fuxxked up on this one. Cuba is a hellhole and no amount of trade lifting is going to help the average Cuban citizen. Castros are smart and they win this round. Obama is a complete idiot in foreign relations.

    South Florida is now out of the picture for Rand in a primary. Jeb or Rubio. Bye Bye Rand. You may remain Senator (if only run for that ) but wont be prez in 2016.

    Take some lessons and learn from some real Cubans what life is like there before saying this is a good deal.
    I'm a South Floridian Cuban who not only will be voting for Rand for President in 2016, but also persuaded over 10 Cuban family members to support and vote for him too.
    Last edited by LatinsforPaul; 12-18-2014 at 04:43 PM.
    Rand Paul for Peace

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by rodo1776 View Post
    http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/video/3949008632001

    Rand fuxxked up on this one. Cuba is a hellhole and no amount of trade lifting is going to help the average Cuban citizen. Castros are smart and they win this round. Obama is a complete idiot in foreign relations.

    South Florida is now out of the picture for Rand in a primary. Jeb or Rubio. Bye Bye Rand. You may remain Senator (if only run for that ) but wont be prez in 2016.

    Take some lessons and learn from some real Cubans what life is like there before saying this is a good deal.
    Keep calm, step off the ledge. Florida ain't that important. You are overvaluing your vote. America is going to love all those new excellent baseball players that will be dropping in from Cuba. Cuban cigars anyone?

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    Well, there goes the south Florida vote.
    Never had it to begin with so no loss.

  26. #23
    ..
    Last edited by specsaregood; 05-17-2016 at 10:42 AM.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by LatinsforPaul View Post
    I'm a South Floridian Cuban who not only will be voting for Rand for President in 2016, but also persuaded over 10 Cuban family members to support and vote for him too.
    + rep

    Rand would have been criticized by some no matter how he reacted to this, or even if he failed to comment at all.

    It would have been the easiest thing in the world to parrot the neocon lines like Rubio or Jeb Bush did. Instead of pandering to the right, he spoke in objective, reasonable terms.

    Rand is a stand-up guy that takes positions based on first principles. In the end, he will earn the credibility he deserves from that.
    Brawndo's got what plants crave. Its got electrolytes.



    H. L. Mencken said it best:


    “Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.”


    "As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."



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  29. #25
    Rubio is going to get stupid with this in the coming weeks. Already reports that he is going to be vocal in opposition to selecting an ambassador, and if he does, Rand is going to hit him about support for the ambassador to China.

  30. #26
    Rand elaborates on his comments in another interview:

    ...

    But there’s much more to Paul’s position on Cuba.

    In a separate radio interview with Iowa talker Jan Mickelson, Paul further explained his position—and the preconditions that must exist before the U.S. would lift the trade embargo with Cuba that’s existed since the days of President John F. Kennedy. Essentially, Paul argued that the Castros—the dying Fidel Castro and his brother Raul Castro—would need to give up power to the Cuban people through free and open elections before such trade negotiations would begin.

    “I think the other thing that goes into this is that if you’re negotiating to open up trade, you would expect something on their side of the coin,” Paul said in that interview. “They would be opening up the ability of their citizens to have communication with us—that’s part of trade, communication. The other thing would be you would be hoping they would open up and allow for elections. There’s always been talk about beginning trade again but in exchange for actually having elections in Cuba.”

    ...
    More:
    http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...ower-of-trade/

  31. #27
    I think Rand's position on this is in line with the overwhelming majority of young people.
    Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law. -Douglas Hofstadter

    Life, Liberty, Logic

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by rodo1776 View Post
    http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/video/3949008632001

    Rand fuxxked up on this one. Cuba is a hellhole and no amount of trade lifting is going to help the average Cuban citizen. Castros are smart and they win this round. Obama is a complete idiot in foreign relations.

    South Florida is now out of the picture for Rand in a primary. Jeb or Rubio. Bye Bye Rand. You may remain Senator (if only run for that ) but wont be prez in 2016.

    Take some lessons and learn from some real Cubans what life is like there before saying this is a good deal.
    It helped every other country that tried it.

    What is so special about Cuba that would enable it to not adapt to the economic pressure of millions of American tourists every year?

    You don't need to get any concessions out of Cuba, just let Americans visit the place and let the wonders of economics break Cuba open.
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  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashland View Post
    I think Rand's position on this is in line with the overwhelming majority of young people.
    Yeah, even a lot of Conservatives support it. The only people who don't are the older Cuban-Americans and people who want to disagree with Obama on everything, simply to disagree with him.
    Stop believing stupid things

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Tywysog Cymru View Post
    Yeah, even a lot of Conservatives support it. The only people who don't are the older Cuban-Americans and people who want to disagree with Obama on everything, simply to disagree with him.
    Agreed. Unfortunately though, that is not an insignificant demographic in GOP primaries
    Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law. -Douglas Hofstadter

    Life, Liberty, Logic

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