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Thread: Grand Jury Witness 40′s Claim That Michael Brown Charged “Like a Football Player” Falls Apart

  1. #1

    Grand Jury Witness 40′s Claim That Michael Brown Charged “Like a Football Player” Falls Apart



    In the debate over whether Officer Darren Wilson was justified or criminally culpable in the shooting death of unarmed teen Michael Brown, the pro-Wilson narrative parrots an account that alleged that the physically larger Michael Brown charged at Officer Wilson “like a football player,” a claim that was made by grand jury Witness 40, whom St. Louis County Prosecutor Robert McCulloch called in to testify. However, an exhaustive report on Witness 40, compiled by William Bastone, Andrew Goldberg, and Joseph Jesselli at The Smoking Gun, calls into question whether she was present on the day that the events occurred and what might have motivated her to fabricate her account. The above-embedded video, provided by Democracy Now!, includes an interview with William Bastone in which he goes into detail about his investigation into Witness 40′s testimony. Reed moar hear: http://benswann.com/grand-jury-witne...r-falls-apart/
    On Trump:
    How conservative Republicans can continue to support this arrogant imposter—the man who brags about inflicting the world with the Covid mark of the beast; the man who said, “Take the guns first, go through due process second”; and the man who deliberately played and then set up Stewart Rhodes (of course, Stewart was all too eager to be Trump’s patsy) for an 18-year prison sentence—is truly beyond my comprehension.” Chuck Baldwin



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  3. #2
    Okay. Witness # 40 lied. Witness #10 lied and was "not sure". Are there any other witnesses that back up Darren Wilson?
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    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
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    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Okay. Witness # 40 lied. Witness #10 lied and was "not sure". Are there any other witnesses that back up Darren Wilson?
    Doesn't make a wit of difference. They did exactly what the DA wanted them to do. He will not be revisiting this case nor will he be bringing charges for perjury.

  5. #4
    It certainly does appear that there was no real effort from the authorities to get at the truth.
    On Trump:
    How conservative Republicans can continue to support this arrogant imposter—the man who brags about inflicting the world with the Covid mark of the beast; the man who said, “Take the guns first, go through due process second”; and the man who deliberately played and then set up Stewart Rhodes (of course, Stewart was all too eager to be Trump’s patsy) for an 18-year prison sentence—is truly beyond my comprehension.” Chuck Baldwin

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Doesn't make a wit of difference. They did exactly what the DA wanted them to do. He will not be revisiting this case nor will he be bringing charges for perjury.
    I'm not thinking about the DA. There is a federal investigation but I don't put a lot of hope in that either. However there is the court of public opinion. I'm personally already convinced that despite the fact that Mike Brown was a thug, a bully and a jerk, there is enough evidence to support the theory that the shooting was bad that Darren Wilson should have been indicted on something. But convincing others of this fact is a bit more problematic. That said, all of this will come out in the wrongful death lawsuit that I suspect the city will settle rather quickly. The last thing they want is all this aired out in a civil trial where private attorney's are ripping apart Darren Wilson and witnesses in his favor the way the prosecutor should have done at trial. And Wilson and his witnesses shouldn't have even been at the grand jury.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  7. #6
    Brown was hit, according to the autopsy, in the "upper ventral right arm" (inner bicep). The bullet exit the "upper dorsal right arm" (back of bicep). The path of the bullet, according to the autopsy, is "slightly upward." This slightly upward path would be consistent with the 6' 4" Wilson shooting at a 6' 4" Brown with hands raised.

    It is virtually impossible for Wilson to hit this area, with that path, if Brown is reaching in his waistband (as Wilson claimed), or if Brown is running at Wilson in a "charging" position (also as Wilson claimed). See pictures below.

    Darren Wilson is a proven liar and a coward.










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    ...I believe that when the government is capable of doing a thing, it will.
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  8. #7
    If I remember right, this could be the woman who criticized the people of Ferguson, saying that these people don't like the police until they need to call them. (Now where have I heard that before?)

    I remember reading her interview and thinking there was something funny about her account. The idea of the charging football player is as exaggerated as Wilson's textbook account.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    ...I believe that when the government is capable of doing a thing, it will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    which one of yall fuckers wrote the "ron paul" racist news letters
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  9. #8



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post

    Darren Wilson is a proven liar and a coward.
    Yes, but he's a "hero" with the Fox News crowd, so that's why the growing anti-police movement will die out and go nowhere.

  12. #10
    For anyone who watched the video, you gotta give Sean Hannity credit for cornering the $#@! market.
    On Trump:
    How conservative Republicans can continue to support this arrogant imposter—the man who brags about inflicting the world with the Covid mark of the beast; the man who said, “Take the guns first, go through due process second”; and the man who deliberately played and then set up Stewart Rhodes (of course, Stewart was all too eager to be Trump’s patsy) for an 18-year prison sentence—is truly beyond my comprehension.” Chuck Baldwin

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Cap View Post
    For anyone who watched the video, you gotta give Sean Hannity credit for cornering the $#@! market.
    He is troglodyte scum.

    (And a knee-jerk neoconservative like McCain).
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
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  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Cap View Post
    For anyone who watched the video, you gotta give Sean Hannity credit for cornering the $#@! market.
    Oh with Glenn Beck with his "I don't like Rand for not being like Ron even though I attacked Ron for being himself" garbage seems to be giving Hannity competition on that front.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Cap View Post
    If that is accurate, then the Grand Jury process was a complete farce. What is the remedy for a corrupt local government?
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    If that is accurate, then the Grand Jury process was a complete farce. What is the remedy for a corrupt local government?
    VOTE.
    Vote like your life depended on it....


    ...DEMOCRACY , BEYOTCHES.

    freedom is AWESOME!
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    VOTE.
    Vote like your life depended on it....


    ...DEMOCRACY , BEYOTCHES.

    freedom is AWESOME!
    Heroes. These ^^^^^.

  18. #16
    For all the copsuckers out there:

    You tell me how a bullet to the right arm, according to the autopsy, takes a slightly upward path when Brown is in his alleged "football stance."


    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    ...I believe that when the government is capable of doing a thing, it will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    which one of yall fuckers wrote the "ron paul" racist news letters
    Quote Originally Posted by Dforkus View Post
    Zippy's posts are a great contribution.




    Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post
    For all the copsuckers out there:

    You tell me how a bullet to the right arm, according to the autopsy, takes a slightly upward path when Brown is in his alleged "football stance."


    Huge difference between a charge and three-point stance. Not that i disagree with your point, i just like to keep thing in line.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post
    Brown was hit, according to the autopsy, in the "upper ventral right arm" (inner bicep). The bullet exit the "upper dorsal right arm" (back of bicep). The path of the bullet, according to the autopsy, is "slightly upward." This slightly upward path would be consistent with the 6' 4" Wilson shooting at a 6' 4" Brown with hands raised.

    It is virtually impossible for Wilson to hit this area, with that path, if Brown is reaching in his waistband (as Wilson claimed), or if Brown is running at Wilson in a "charging" position (also as Wilson claimed). See pictures below.

    Darren Wilson is a proven liar and a coward.











    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post5646567


    Gulag Chief:
    "Article 58-1a, twenty five years... What did you get it for?"
    Gulag Prisoner: "For nothing at all."
    Gulag Chief: "You're lying... The sentence for nothing at all is 10 years"



  22. #19
    but but...ok..but he's still a thug and wears funny clothes...and he's (was) scary looking.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by morfeeis View Post
    Huge difference between a charge and three-point stance. Not that i disagree with your point, i just like to keep thing in line.
    You're right; I read that wrong. A charge is different from a stance. Perhaps this is what that witness means when she said "like a football player, head down."

    Wilson referred to Brown as a "demon," so perhaps this is in line with the image Wilson tried to portray:








    Either way, the path of the bullet was slightly upward. A charging Brown with his head down cannot receive a bullet on the inner bicep with an upward trajectory in that position.
    Last edited by NorthCarolinaLiberty; 12-18-2014 at 07:10 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    ...I believe that when the government is capable of doing a thing, it will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    which one of yall fuckers wrote the "ron paul" racist news letters
    Quote Originally Posted by Dforkus View Post
    Zippy's posts are a great contribution.




    Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members

  24. #21
    From Volume 17 of the grand jury testimony. This is from the woman on the porch.

    Note that she confirms the story of several witnesses (including the Monte Carlo passenger) who said that Wilson aggressively backs his car, almost hitting Johnson and Brown. Others witnesses discuss Wilson's screeching tires when he aggressively backs his car, a point that Wilson denied.

    If Wilson is backing his car aggressively, then it's not a stretch to believe the testimony claiming Wilson aggressively opened his door on Brown, striking him. Wilson would be the aggressor and escalator here.






    Q So when the car back?back, did it back-back like hurriedly or slow or what fashion did the car back-back?

    A It was kind of like a fast, it was quick like. I don't know how to explain it.

    Q Okay. That's fine. Did it appear to touch the two guys that it back toward?

    A It looked like it did. I'm not saying that it did, but the way they jump back, like they were in shock like.

    ..........

    Q Was his arms up the way you showed us when he was being shot?

    A Yes, about, like his palms were out facing forward, they were about at his ears, I'd say, like shoulders, about like that.

    Q Okay. What did that mean to you to have your arms like that?

    A That meant surrender, that meant take me to jail.

    QYou thought he was surrendering?

    A Yeah.

    Q Did you ever see him rush the officer like, you know what I mean by rush?

    A Yeah, like he was mad. [?]

    Q Was he running toward the officer or charge him?

    A I didn't see that.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    ...I believe that when the government is capable of doing a thing, it will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    which one of yall fuckers wrote the "ron paul" racist news letters
    Quote Originally Posted by Dforkus View Post
    Zippy's posts are a great contribution.




    Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members

  25. #22
    The more that comes out of this farce they call a grand jury, the greater the stench. Concerning the "vote like your life depends on it", even bxm042 is chuckling on that one.
    Last edited by Cap; 12-18-2014 at 07:03 PM.
    On Trump:
    How conservative Republicans can continue to support this arrogant imposter—the man who brags about inflicting the world with the Covid mark of the beast; the man who said, “Take the guns first, go through due process second”; and the man who deliberately played and then set up Stewart Rhodes (of course, Stewart was all too eager to be Trump’s patsy) for an 18-year prison sentence—is truly beyond my comprehension.” Chuck Baldwin

  26. #23
    One point is simple. Salient.

    This case should have gone forward.

    Period.

    It would have. If the DA had intended it to.l

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    VOTE.
    Vote like your life depended on it....
    Is the DA elected? How about the mayor and city council? It's a long-shot, but it could work.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  29. #25
    I don't know what to think anymore. On one hand, we've had such luminaries in the liberty movements, giants voices of liberty such as Stephan Molyneux, Peter Schiff and Charles Barkley tell us everything was in the up and up and that justice was served in Ferguson. How can I look at this secretive process where there is no cross examination of witnesses, plus the good words of the folks I mentioned above and say with a straight face that justice was not served?

    This is just crazy, I can't say for sure if Darren Wilson was guilty but one thing I know is that his case should have gone to trial. The fact that they did not even find enough in all the back and forth testimonies to take it to trial is complete bull$#@!.

  30. #26
    Voting.

    Legal system. Justice.

    L O L
    “One may come to the aid of another being unlawfully arrested, just as he may where one is being assaulted, molested, raped or kidnapped. Thus it is not an offense to liberate one from the unlawful custody of an officer, even though he may have submitted to such custody, without resistance.” (Adams v. State, 121 Ga. 16, 48 S.E. 910).

  31. #27
    St. Louis prosecutor McCulloch says he knew ‘Witness 40′ lied to Ferguson grand jury


    St. Louis County Prosecutor Bob McCulloch said on Friday that he let witnesses who were lying testify before the grand jury that chose not to indict a Ferguson, Missouri police officer for shooting and killing 18-year-old Michael Brown, Buzzfeed reported.

    “There were people who came in and, yes, absolutely lied under oath,” McCulloch told KTRS-AM host McGraw Milhaven. “Some lied to the FBI. Even though they’re not under oath, that’s another potential offense — a federal offense. I thought it was much more important to present the entire picture.”

    McCulloch explained that he decided to let “anyone who claimed to have witnessed anything” testify before the jurors, out of the belief that he would be criticized no matter how he approached the possible prosecution of Officer Darren Wilson, who Brown following a confrontation this past August.


    He also admitted that the testimony of “Witness 40,” identified in a grand jury transcript as 45-year-old Sandra McElroy, lacked credibility.

    “This lady clearly wasn’t present when this occurred,” McCulloch said. “She recounted a statement that was right out of the newspaper about Wilson’s actions, and right down the line with Wilson’s actions. Even though I’m sure she was nowhere near the place.”

    Buzzfeed reported that there was no indication that McCulloch’s office instructed the grand jury to consider the credibility of any specific witness. His office has already been criticized for not immediately telling the jurors that a state statute giving officers more leeway on use of deadly force had been found unconstitutional. McCulloch himself has also been accused of being biased toward police.

    According to the Associated Press, the interview aired amid a demand by state Rep. Karla May (D) that McCulloch be investigated by a bipartisan committee of state lawmakers.

    The committee is already looking into why Gov. Jay Nixon (D) did not send the National Guard into Ferguson on Nov. 24 to help stop unrest and property damage in the city immediately following McCulloch’s announcement that Wilson would not be brought to trial.

    “Many St. Louis-area residents believe — and there is at least some evidence to suggest — that Mr. McCulloch manipulated the grand jury process from the beginning to ensure that Officer Wilson would not be indicted,” May said in a letter to the committee’s chairperson, state Sen. Kurt Schaefer (R).

    Brown’s death sparked demonstrations accusing police of regularly using excessive force. The protests intensified last month, after the jury decided not to indict Wilson, and took on more momentum after another grand jury in Staten Island, New York, declined to charge NYPD Officer Daniel Pantaleo in the choking death of Eric Garner.

    “If I didn’t put those witnesses on, then we’d be discussing now why I didn’t put those witnesses on,” McCulloch said on Friday. “Even though their statements were not accurate. So my determination was to put everybody on and let the grand jurors assess their credibility, which they did.”

    Watch Millhaven’s interview with McCulloch, as posted online on Friday, below.




    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/12/s...on-grand-jury/

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Okay. Witness # 40 lied. Witness #10 lied and was "not sure". Are there any other witnesses that back up Darren Wilson?
    Wilson supporters talked about others changing their stories, but conveniently dismiss the lies and inconsistencies of 40 and 10. McElroy (witness 40) even admitted to lying about her original reason for being in the neighborhood. Witness 10 first said Brown was on the sidewalk, but changed it to Brown being in the street.

    I don't think any other witness describe the "charge" that these two described. Other witnesses described a mixture of actions, such as Brown having his hands up, looking at his hand wound, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    ...I believe that when the government is capable of doing a thing, it will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    which one of yall fuckers wrote the "ron paul" racist news letters
    Quote Originally Posted by Dforkus View Post
    Zippy's posts are a great contribution.




    Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members

  33. #29
    “This lady clearly wasn’t present when this occurred,” McCulloch said. “She recounted a statement that was right out of the newspaper about Wilson’s actions, and right down the line with Wilson’s actions. Even though I’m sure she was nowhere near the place.”

    There are two possibilities for the action of McElroy (witness 40). One explanation is that she is so medically manic and hates blacks so much that she risks perjury by approaching the DA and making up a story.

    The other possibility is that someone approached her after seeing her Wilson Facebook support page and then offered her several hundred dollars to approach the DA with a false story. Her two convictions for passing bad checks means it would not take much money for her to do this.

    The bogus story of the anonymous woman "Josie" on national radio is significant. Josie's identity has not been exposed, but I have no doubt that she represents the police and floated the story on the radio talk show. She was not just some friend of Wilson's spouse who just happened to randomly call a national radio show one day. It was a carefully constructed and purposeful plan.

    I might guess that McElroy's mania might have caused her action, but would not discount someone giving her a few hundred dollars to create the fake story.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    ...I believe that when the government is capable of doing a thing, it will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    which one of yall fuckers wrote the "ron paul" racist news letters
    Quote Originally Posted by Dforkus View Post
    Zippy's posts are a great contribution.




    Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members

  34. #30
    http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=229677

    Lying to a Grand Jury is perjury. It is a crime.

    So is suborning perjury; the persuading or allowing of someone to swear falsely under oath.

    If McCulloch knew that this "witness" could not have actually witnessed the shooting and yet put her in front of the Grand Jury he committed a crime as well.

    And now McCulloch has admitted he knew this to be the case:

    He made reference to one woman who claimed to have seen the shooting. McCulloch said she "clearly wasn't present. She recounted a story right out of the newspaper" that backed up Wilson's version of events, he said.
    This leaves only one question before a felony indictment must issue against McCulloch: When did he become aware of this -- before or after her testimony was given? If before then as an officer of the court he must stand accused of suborning perjury, be tried and, upon conviction be imprisoned for, that offense.

    Never mind the obvious false charge given to the Grand Jury that I have reported on before which is a separate and distinct offense.
    Based on the idea of natural rights, government secures those rights to the individual by strictly negative intervention, making justice costless and easy of access; and beyond that it does not go. The State, on the other hand, both in its genesis and by its primary intention, is purely anti-social. It is not based on the idea of natural rights, but on the idea that the individual has no rights except those that the State may provisionally grant him. It has always made justice costly and difficult of access, and has invariably held itself above justice and common morality whenever it could advantage itself by so doing.
    --Albert J. Nock

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