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Thread: Obama to announce historic overhaul of relations; Cuba releases American

  1. #1

    Obama to announce historic overhaul of relations; Cuba releases American

    Too long to cut-n-paste.

    Washington (CNN) -- U.S. contractor Alan Gross, held by the Cuban government since 2009, was freed Wednesday as part of a landmark deal with Cuba that paves the way for a major overhaul in U.S. policy toward the island, senior administration officials tell CNN.

    President Barack Obama spoke with Cuban President Raul Castro Tuesday in a phone call that lasted about an hour and reflected the first communication at the presidential level with Cuba since the Cuban revolution, according to White House officials. Obama is expected to announce Gross' release and the new diplomatic stance at noon in Washington. At around the same time, Cuban president Raul Castro will speak in Havana

    President Obama is also set to announce a major loosening of travel and economic restrictions on the country. And the two nations are set to re-open embassies, with preliminary discussions on that next step in normalizing diplomatic relations beginning in the coming weeks, a senior administration official tells CNN.

    Talks between the U.S. and Cuba have been ongoing since June of 2013 and were facilitated by the Canadians and the Vatican in brokering the deal. Pope Francis -- the first pope from Latin America -- encouraged Obama in a letter and in their meeting this year to renew talks with Cuba on pursuing a closer relationship.

    Gross' "humanitarian" release by Cuba was accompanied by a separate spy swap, the officials said. Cuba also freed a U.S. intelligence source who has been jailed in Cuba for more than 20 years, although authorities did not identify that person for security reasons. The U.S. released three Cuban intelligence agents convicted of espionage in 2001.

    The developments constitute what officials called the most sweeping change in U.S. policy toward Cuba since 1961, when the embassy closed and the embargo was imposed.

    Officials described the planned actions as the most forceful changes the president could make without legislation passing through Congress.

    ...


    http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/17/politi...eal/index.html



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  3. #2
    Nothing wrong with friendly relations with our neighbors, especially when both of our governments are Marxist and authoritarian.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  4. #3
    He finally did something good!

    I would love to go to Cuba.
    Based on the idea of natural rights, government secures those rights to the individual by strictly negative intervention, making justice costless and easy of access; and beyond that it does not go. The State, on the other hand, both in its genesis and by its primary intention, is purely anti-social. It is not based on the idea of natural rights, but on the idea that the individual has no rights except those that the State may provisionally grant him. It has always made justice costly and difficult of access, and has invariably held itself above justice and common morality whenever it could advantage itself by so doing.
    --Albert J. Nock

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Nothing wrong with friendly relations with our neighbors, .
    We should definitely have good relations with Cuba.

    especially when both of our governments are Marxist and authoritarian
    lol

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucille View Post
    He finally did something good!

    I would love to go to Cuba.
    Me too.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucille View Post
    He finally did something good!

    I would love to go to Cuba.
    Well it doesn't open up the country for tourism. Supposedly you'd need congress to do that; but not like that has stopped him before.

  8. #7
    US, Cuba Seek To Normalize Relations

    Huffington Post-1 hour ago
    WASHINGTON (AP) — The United States and Cuba will start talks on normalizing full diplomatic relations, marking the most significant shift in ...




    Obama to announce historic overhaul of relations; Cuba releases ...
    CNN-27 minutes ago



    US, Cuba taking steps to normalize relations, officials say
    Opinion-The Globe and Mail-1 hour ago



    US to start talks with Cuba to normalize ties
    In-Depth-Washington Post-9 minutes ago



    Obama set to announce sweeping changes to US-Cuba relations ...
    Live Updating-The Guardian-2 hours ago



    Cuba Frees American Contractor Alan Gross
    Blog-NPR (blog)-51 minutes ago
    ..

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...


  9. #8
    Remember when Dr. Paul went to that Univision debate in Miami and called for ending the sanctions and isolationism with cuba? shocked people were.
    Can't find a tube of that, but here he is with the same message in 2012:





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  11. #9
    Obama giving a speech about Cuba right now. He emphasized the prisoner exchange, reminiscent of his previous Guantanamo prisoner exchange.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  12. #10
    And Rubio has already come out a-swinging hard against it. This is like when Romney had a statement immediately after the Benghazi incident:

    "At a minimum, I would say this. Barack Obama is the worst negotiator that we've had as President since at least Jimmy Carter, and maybe in the history of this country," he said on Fox News' "America's Newsroom."

    Rubio, whose parents emigrated to the U.S. from Cuba, said he was glad Gross would be reunited with his family. But he added that the prisoner exchange would set a "very dangerous precedent."

    "It puts a price on every American abroad," he said. "Governments now know that if they take an American hostage, they can get very significant successions from the U.S."

    The Florida Republican also criticized Obama's reported move to normalize relations with Cuba, arguing that opening up commerce and trade on the communist island wouldn't bring democracy to its people.
    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewir...tor-alan-gross

  13. #11
    Wow. Obama slipped in a phrase in Spanish without translating it! He said that "we are all Americans" in Spanish. Open those borders up for the new American Union.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  14. #12
    I'm fine with this. Obama did something good for maybe the second or third time.

  15. #13
    "It puts a price on every American abroad," he said. "Governments now know that if they take an American hostage, they can get very significant successions from the U.S."
    Lol... Did Rubio really say that?!

    I guess with the super negotiator Rubio in charge, he'd go after every succession he could find! Or maybe that's what Jeb is counting on?
    Last edited by CaptUSA; 12-17-2014 at 11:40 AM.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.NoSmile View Post
    And Rubio has already come out a-swinging hard against it.
    Of course. Many of the neoconservatives will squeal like stuck pigs over this. The Cuba situation has been advantageous to them over the years. If relations with Cuba normalize, they won't have a hook to manipulate the Cuban community any more.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  17. #15
    "Uh, can I go back to Cuba now?"

    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  18. #16
    You can already go to Cuba if you call it a "cultural exchange". Thousands did last year. http://www.lonelyplanet.com/cuba I considered it (and would still like to visit there) as someplace not a lot of people visit. US will set up embassy, travel restrictions and sending of money restrictions will be eased (but not eliminated). You will now be able to bring in some Cuban cigars too (up to $100 they said on the radio) but the embargo will still be in place.


    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-1...-released.html

    Cuba also agreed to release 53 people the U.S. considers political prisoners, some of whom have already been released, the officials said.

    The White House plans to move swiftly. The administration expects to issue regulations within weeks and open an embassy as soon as is logistically possible, according to White House officials who briefed reporters on condition of anonymity before Obama spoke. Obama said he will work with Congress to lift the full trade embargo.

    Travelers will be able to use credit and debit cards in Cuba and Americans will be able to legally bring home up to $100 in previously illegal Cuban cigars treasured by aficionados.

    U.S. companies will be permitted to export to Cuba telecommunications equipment, agricultural commodities, construction supplies and materials for small businesses. U.S. financial institutions will be allowed to open accounts with Cuban banks.

    Remittances

    Limits on Cuban-Americans’ remittances to relatives in their homeland will jump to $8,000 from $2,000 annually. U.S. companies will be permitted to export an expansive list of goods including building materials and allowed to build telecommunications infrastructure on the island.

    Exports will mainly be permitted to Cuba’s emerging private sector, including residential goods and equipment for small businesses and agriculture, an official said.

    The president also ordered the State Department to review Cuba’s designation as a state sponsor of terrorism. Cuba has been listed as a terrorism sponsor since 1982, the official said.

    Cuba also agreed to allow greater Internet access for its citizens and easier telecommunications with the United States.

    The U.S. and Cuba will begin a series of high-level visits between the government as they negotiate normalization of relations with a visit to Havana in January by an assistant secretary of state for talks on migration policy.
    Policies of the last 50 years regarding Cuba have obviously made little difference.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 12-17-2014 at 01:53 PM.



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  20. #17
    Yeah, trade is always a good thing. This is going to be one of the areas where we disagree with the mainstream GOP. They're still fighting the Cold War. (While linig up and voting for SS and MediCare, natch.)

  21. #18
    U.S. Takes First Steps to Fix Cuban Policy: Here's What Pundits Are Saying
    http://reason.com/blog/2014/12/17/us...d-the-cuban-em

    President Obama announced Wednesday that the U.S. will establish diplomatic ties with Cuba, a huge milestone in U.S.-Cuba relations. While only an act of Congress could repeal the embargo that has existed since 1960, this is a vital first step in allowing market forces to eventually improve the lives of Cubans who have languished under dictatorship for more than half a century.

    For fans of human freedom and economic opportunity, the news is undoubtedly encouraging. Over the years, Reason has frequently written about the need to open up Cuba to market forces. As Sen. Jeff Flake (R-Arizona) told Reason TV in 2011, "the whole trade embargo is silly." Flake explained that it was wrong for the American government to limit its citizens' interactions with Cubans.

    Unfortunately, all too many Republicans remain committed to Cold War-era posturing on outdated and ineffective national security measures. Neocon Sen. Lindsey Graham leads the pack:
    [...]
    But neoconservatives aren't the only critics of improved relations with Cuba. Some Twitter leftists seem depressed about the prospect of their tropical island socialist paradise transforming into a capitalist hellhole:
    [...]
    It would appear there's more overlap between delusional, angry neoconservatives and authoritarian-worshipping leftists than one would expect, huh? [not really, since Neo-Trots are just delusional, angry, authoritarian-worshipping leftists in red jerseys -L]
    [...]
    To end on a positive—and highly sarcastic—note:

    Based on the idea of natural rights, government secures those rights to the individual by strictly negative intervention, making justice costless and easy of access; and beyond that it does not go. The State, on the other hand, both in its genesis and by its primary intention, is purely anti-social. It is not based on the idea of natural rights, but on the idea that the individual has no rights except those that the State may provisionally grant him. It has always made justice costly and difficult of access, and has invariably held itself above justice and common morality whenever it could advantage itself by so doing.
    --Albert J. Nock

  22. #19
    Had to happen some day...may as well be today. 50 years of sanctions and bluster and Cubans somehow survived.

    Its always good to have another tropical place to take a vacation...

    Will this work out?....i think so. Time will tell.

  23. #20
    Well Obama got one thing right.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  24. #21
    Obama: "Todos somos Americanos".

    It's a big story in the Latin American press. Not so much here. Pretty much ignored. Obama can send an untranslated message right in the middle of a speech and no one asks questions.

    This is pretty much the only reference I've found in English language press, and it's from the UK, not the US.

    “We will end an outdated approach that for decades has failed to advance our interests,” Mr Obama said in a televised address from the White House. “These changes will begin a new chapter among the nations of the Americas.”

    Later he said: “Todos somos Americanos”, or “We are all Americans.”
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    They're still fighting the Cold War. (While linig up and voting for SS and MediCare, natch.)
    Yep, the neoconservatives love the Cold War, and are still battling Russia. But when this news came out, the thought occurred to me that Obama is fighting Russia more effectively than the neoconservatives. Making friends with Cuba and potentially removing a Russian ally on our coast seems like a good maneuver.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Yep, the neoconservatives love the Cold War, and are still battling Russia. But when this news came out, the thought occurred to me that Obama is fighting Russia more effectively than the neoconservatives. Making friends with Cuba and potentially removing a Russian ally on our coast seems like a good maneuver.
    yeah, i don't think we'll be seeing any missiles being shipped to Cuba any time soon...

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Obama: "Todos somos Americanos".

    It's a big story in the Latin American press. Not so much here. Pretty much ignored. Obama can send an untranslated message right in the middle of a speech and no one asks questions.

    This is pretty much the only reference I've found in English language press, and it's from the UK, not the US.
    It is a big story elsewhere because Estadounidenses always call themselves Americans in an exclusive context, to the point where some from Central, South America (and the Caribbean) take offense to it.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucille View Post
    He finally did something good!

    I would love to go to Cuba.
    As long as it is not Gitmo. <s>
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  30. #26
    A bit of a poke at Putin?
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  31. #27
    One Cheer for Obama?
    http://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/...eer-for-obama/

    The prez is not pressing his boot on the necks of the Cuban people with quite as much virulence. It’s still illegal to travel to Cuba for tourism, and most trade is still forbidden, but all those barriers can and should come down. Surely the decades of vicious anti-civilian sanctions are more than enough, even for the Cuba lobby? Actually not. That Republican pressure group will not be satisfied until the CIA puts them back into power. The libertarian solution? Hands Off Havana, and Free Trade With Cuba. And good for the Vatican for negotiating this first step. Cuba has liberalized economically and religiously. Now is the time for peace, trade, and friendship. And to smoke a Cuban cigar. Oh, and kudos to Ron Paul for always taking the correct position, despite Republican temper tantrums. As will be the case with everything, Ron has been proven right again.
    Based on the idea of natural rights, government secures those rights to the individual by strictly negative intervention, making justice costless and easy of access; and beyond that it does not go. The State, on the other hand, both in its genesis and by its primary intention, is purely anti-social. It is not based on the idea of natural rights, but on the idea that the individual has no rights except those that the State may provisionally grant him. It has always made justice costly and difficult of access, and has invariably held itself above justice and common morality whenever it could advantage itself by so doing.
    --Albert J. Nock

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    A bit of a poke at Putin?
    Exactly...
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  33. #29
    Wow, that was a fast change in direction.


    Top Cuban Musician Tells USAID to "Go to Hell" for Botched Rapper Program:

    One of the leading musicians in Cuba has told the U.S. Agency for International Development to "go to hell" for ensnaring his son and other hip-hop artists in a botched plot to foment anti-government unrest. Silvio Rodríguez made the comments on his blog following revelations by the Associated Press that USAID tried to recruit Cuban rappers under the guise of civic causes like HIV prevention. As part of the program, USAID hired Creative Associates International, a firm that also played a key role in the "Cuban Twitter" program — a fake social media program launched in another bid to undermine the Cuban government. In the hip-hop case, Creative Associates was directed to recruit young rap artists looking to make "social change." But the program ended up endangering some of the artists, spiking their careers and forcing some, like Rodríguez’s son, to move to Florida.

    Cuba's Silvio Rodriguez to USAID: 'go to hell':

    Associated Press
    December 16, 2014

    HAVANA — One of Cuba's most famous musicians is telling the U.S. Agency for International Development to "go to hell" for pulling his son and other island-based rappers without their knowledge into a scheme aimed at sparking a youth uprising against the Communist government.

    Folk singer Silvio Rodriguez went onto his Segunda Cita blog this week to fill in his fellow Cubans with the details of the operation revealed by The Associated Press.

    His defended his son, rapper Silvio Liam Rodriguez, and Aldo Rodriguez of the Cuban rap duo Los Aldeanos, who is not a member of their family. The two young musicians and a second member of Los Aldeanos now live in Florida because they say the Cuban government made it impossible for them to perform on the island.

    "The AP's revelations about the insistent program of USAID are full of anecdotes, but more than anything they offer a clear lesson about manipulation and intervention" in Cuban affairs, Rodriguez wrote.

    He issued a veiled knock at Cuban authorities as well. "Should an artist be automatically discredited just because he doesn't think like you?" Rodriguez asked.

    The AP last week published the results of its investigation into U.S. efforts to infiltrate the island's hip-hop scene and use artists to unwittingly spark opposition to the Cuban government.

    The scheme involved a Serbian music promoter who brought Los Aldeanos to Serbia for an international music festival and planned political training. Silvio Rodriguez was unwittingly drawn into the USAID effort when he lent his name to help get Aldo Rodriguez freed when he was jailed in Cuba, and to retrieve the young rapper's confiscated computer.

    Adrian Monzon, who once worked with the Serbians and the USAID contractor Creative Associates, over the weekend confirmed via Facebook he was the only person involved in the project in Cuba who knew about the USAID connection. He now works at a Papa John's pizza restaurant in South Florida and has a small event planning company.

    Members of Los Aldeanos, who spoke out against the government long before the USAID project, have said they never received any political training and are solely responsible for their music.

    Silvio Rodriguez is well-known throughout Latin America as leader of the "nueva trova" folk music movement, and for his highly symbolic lyrics in songs such as "Playa Giron" and "Ojala."

    He said on his blog that he and his son don't always agree, but called the young musicians "rebel spirits."

    "They know that in many areas, I don't think like them, even though I insist on defending their right to think and say what they choose," Rodriguez wrote. "As a father, and as an artist, I hope they learn from what has happened to them that they take advantage of it. ... And may USAID go to hell."

    Associated Press writers Wides-Munoz and Gisela Salomon reported from Miami.


    Here's video from this past April's revelation by the Associated Press regarding USAID's twitter program in Cuba; Alan Gross is also discussed in here:



  34. #30
    US Embassies and Consulates are Spy and Subversive Operations Centers... everything else is a secondary smokescreen.

    Even the Daily Propaganda from today's coordinated State Department Brief confirms their double talk translation:

    US StateDept PSAKI


    "we are taking a new tactic to achieve regime change in Cuba"
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    June 1826



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