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Thread: How many Norfed Liberty Dollars have ever been minted total?

  1. #1

    How many Norfed Liberty Dollars have ever been minted total?

    Does anyone know? I read two tons of Ron Paul coins, plus 500 pounds of silver, and 40-50 ounces of gold were confiscated from Von Nothaus, but now are being returned to him. How many coins were produced that weren't seized, and how many of them are there total?
    "A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government." George Washington



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  3. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by AmericasLastHope View Post
    Does anyone know? I read two tons of Ron Paul coins, plus 500 pounds of silver, and 40-50 ounces of gold were confiscated from Von Nothaus, but now are being returned to him. How many coins were produced that weren't seized, and how many of them are there total?
    No one knows? Not even an estimate?
    "A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government." George Washington

  4. #3
    I don't know, I heard a rumor Bernard Von NotHaus sentencing went surprisingly well. This is all I saw, I don't know if its true:
    http://www.silverseek.com/article/li...ntencing-13866
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe




  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by William Tell View Post
    I don't know, I heard a rumor Bernard Von NotHaus sentencing went surprisingly well. This is all I saw, I don't know if its true:
    http://www.silverseek.com/article/li...ntencing-13866
    Thanks for the reply. Yes, that's what I heard as well.

    Still no one knows the answer to my original question? Not even an estimate?
    "A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government." George Washington

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by AmericasLastHope View Post
    Thanks for the reply. Yes, that's what I heard as well.

    Still no one knows the answer to my original question? Not even an estimate?
    I would also like to know. The only info I found, was from Wikipedia talking about how much stuff they seized from him. Of course, some of it is copper too, and probably blanks of various sorts as well:
    FBI / Secret Service raid

    The Liberty Dollar offices were raided by agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and the United States Secret Service on November 14, 2007. Bernard von NotHaus, the owner of Liberty Services, sent an email to customers and supporters saying that the FBI took all the gold, silver, and platinum, and almost two tons of Ron Paul Dollars. The FBI also seized computers and files and froze the Liberty Dollar bank accounts.[18] von NotHaus's email linked to a signup page for a class action lawsuit so that the victims might recover their assets. At the same time, all forms on his website relating to purchases of Liberty Dollars became nonfunctional.
    Copies of the email and the warrant documents have been posted to the website.[19] The seizure warrant was issued for money laundering, mail fraud, wire fraud, counterfeiting, and conspiracy.[20][21]
    The local Evansville Courier & Press reported the email, stating that "FBI Agent Wendy Osborne, a spokeswoman for the FBI's Indianapolis office, directed all questions on the raid to the Western District of North Carolina U.S. Attorney's Office. A spokeswoman there said she had no information on the investigation. Bernard von NotHaus, the group's monetary architect and the author of the email, did not immediately respond to a message seeking comment."[22]
    The Associated Press quoted von NotHaus on November 16, 2007, as saying that the federal government was "running scared right now and they had to do something .... I'm volunteering to meet the agents and get arrested so we can thrash this out in court."[23]
    Indictment

    A federal grand jury brought an indictment against von NotHaus and three others in May 2009 in United States District Court in Statesville, North Carolina,[24] and von NotHaus was arrested on June 6, 2009. Bernard von NotHaus is charged with one count of conspiracy to possess and sell coins in resemblance and similitude of coins of a denomination higher than five cents, and silver coins in resemblance of genuine coins of the United States in denominations of five dollars and greater, in violation of 18 U.S.C. 485, 18 U.S.C. 486, and 18 U.S.C. 371; one count of mail fraud in violation of 18 U.S.C. 1341 and 18 U.S.C. 2; one count of selling, and possessing with intent to defraud, coins of resemblance and similitude of United States coins in denominations of five cents and higher, in violation of 18 U.S.C. 485 and 18 U.S.C. 2; and one count of uttering, passing, and attempting to utter and pass, silver coins in resemblance of genuine U.S. coins in denominations of five dollars or greater, in violation of 18 U.S.C. 486 and 18 U.S.C. 2.[24]
    On July 28, 2009, von NotHaus entered a plea of not guilty.[25]
    Conviction

    On March 18, 2011, von NotHaus was convicted of "making, possessing and selling his own coins", after a jury in Statesville, North Carolina deliberated for less than two hours.[26] The jury found him guilty of one count under 18 U.S.C. 485 and 18 U.S.C. 2, one count of violating 18 U.S.C. 486 and 18 U.S.C. 2, and one count of conspiracy, under 18 U.S.C. 371, to violate sections 485 and 486.[27] He faces up to 15 years in prison, a $250,000 fine, and may be forced to give $7 million worth of minted coins and precious metals to the government, weighing 16,000 pounds.[26] Attorney for the Western District of North Carolina, Anne M. Tompkins, described the Liberty Dollar as "a unique form of domestic terrorism" that is trying "to undermine the legitimate currency of this country".[28] The Justice Department press release quotes her as saying: "While these forms of anti-government activities do not involve violence, they are every bit as insidious and represent a clear and present danger to the economic stability of this country."[28]
    According to the Associated Press, "Federal prosecutors successfully argued that von NotHaus was, in fact, trying to pass off the silver coins as U.S. currency. Coming in denominations of 5, 10, 20, and 50, the Liberty Dollars also featured a dollar sign, the word "dollar" and the motto "Trust in God," similar to the "In God We Trust" that appears on U.S. coins".[29] The conviction was appealed.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libert...r#Legal_issues
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe




  7. #6
    All I know is they are illegal to own and as of a few years ago the Feds were still rounding them up. A few people got burned selling them as collectibles on Ebay in 2012 and the Feds busted some of them so the coins went totally underground and now you run a great risk trying to buy from anyone selling these online.

    You are never going to know and if you still own some they are illegal and thus almost impossible to sell other than to some fellow stacker who wants the really cool conversation piece and is willing to buy it.

    Kind of cool really as it shows the absurdity of the state. I would love to see Nothaus try this again and just call them something else - the Feds picked him because they said they were counterfeit "dollars" if he just called them something else he'd be fine. If he's getting his metal back i'd love for him to restart the operation and just rename them. What he did was very important...
    Last edited by NoOneButPaul; 12-08-2014 at 03:19 PM.
    It's just an opinion... man...

  8. #7
    I've been reading a book on the history of money, (primarily the US). Based on the Constitution and the Coinage Act, what Not Haus was doing seems to be perfectly legal and what the Fed is doing is illegal. When the Constitution was written the US had just experienced hyper-inflation with the Continental currency. They specifically wanted to avoid paper money. That's why they put in the Constitution that the only thing the government can do is coin money. Coining money is basically just putting a stamp of approval on the coin that the gold or silver content is accurate.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by NoOneButPaul View Post
    All I know is they are illegal to own and as of a few years ago the Feds were still rounding them up. A few people got burned selling them as collectibles on Ebay in 2012 and the Feds busted some of them so the coins went totally underground and now you run a great risk trying to buy from anyone selling these online.

    You are never going to know and if you still own some they are illegal and thus almost impossible to sell other than to some fellow stacker who wants the really cool conversation piece and is willing to buy it.

    Kind of cool really as it shows the absurdity of the state. I would love to see Nothaus try this again and just call them something else - the Feds picked him because they said they were counterfeit "dollars" if he just called them something else he'd be fine. If he's getting his metal back i'd love for him to restart the operation and just rename them. What he did was very important...
    I'm pretty sure the metal is already owned by those who have the paper certificates. I have some of those certificates but I doubt I want to trade them in for the silver. They are collectable.



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  11. #9
    I think it's interesting there is a Rand Paul copper.


    http://www.gilliesconeyisland.com/id15.html

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by William Tell View Post
    I would also like to know. The only info I found, was from Wikipedia talking about how much stuff they seized from him. Of course, some of it is copper too, and probably blanks of various sorts as well:
    They do give a dollar amount and we can get the spot prices ....

  13. #11
    I think there should be a Carol Paul coin too. Love her cookbooks !! Ha Ha
    "Never Miss a Good Chance to Shut up"



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