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Thread: Eric Garner: It wasn't a "choke hold." It was a "headlock" that was applied.

  1. #1

    Eric Garner: It wasn't a "choke hold." It was a "headlock" that was applied.

    This could be added to AF "The mind of a SWAT officer" thread. I suppose ya could make this $#@! up. Then again life is more $#@!ed than any fiction.

    Not a chokehold: Truth of the Garner arrest
    By Bo DietlAugust 14, 2014 | 4:50am

    It wasn’t a chokehold.

    That’s just the biggest single distortion in all the talk about the Eric Garner case, in which the public has been misinformed and misled from the start.
    The Rev. Al Sharpton has never had to put himself in harm’s way to protect our streets against crime, as our police officers do every day. He’s in no way qualified to stand on his soapbox and dictate procedures.

    I spent decades in law enforcement. During my time with the NYPD, I was responsible for over 1,400 felony arrests — any of which could’ve required the use of deadly physical force.

    Volunteering to be a decoy cop in the 1970s, I was the victim of more than 500 muggings, about 30 of which injured me seriously enough that I was hospitalized. I wound up in countless physical situations and was always able to get the perp into cuffs.

    Now, as owner of a security company here in the city, I consult for police departments across the country.

    I’ve served as co-chairman of the National Crime Commission and chairman of the state Security Guard Advisory Council. I have extensive experience when it comes to police procedure, safety and security.

    So I speak with some authority on the events surrounding Garner’s attempted arrest and death.

    It’s tragic that a life was lost, but I’m outraged at how this incident is being used to hobble the NYPD.

    The officers who approached Garner were responding to community complaints about his ongoing activities. When he grew uncooperative and resisted arrest, they followed protocol on taking him into custody.

    Officers are required to be as quick as possible in getting a perpetrator into custody so that he has no chance to injure the officer, innocent bystanders or himself.

    Garner was 6-foot-3 and 350 pounds. Using a headlock to bring down a man of that size was appropriate.

    Headlocks are used in thousands of arrests each year, especially of individuals not cooperating with the police. I used the maneuver in dozens of arrests.

    And it was a headlock, not a chokehold. To be a chokehold, there must be constant pressure on the person’s neck, compressing his windpipe or cutting off the flow of blood to the carotid artery, rendering him unconscious.

    Watch the video: It’s obvious that the arresting officer put his arm around Garner’s neck to bring him to the ground — but once Garner was on the ground, he was still conscious and able to say he couldn’t breathe.

    That’s when the officers called for medical back-up. Tragically, the EMS personnel failed to administer oxygen or to ascertain that Garner was asthmatic and use an inhaler to assist with his breathing.

    A top medical examiner (who can’t publicly fault the city ME) tells me it was very irresponsible for the Medical Examiner’s Office to issue the press release stating that Garner’s death was caused by a chokehold (with asthma, heart disease and obesity as contributing factors) and ruling his death a homicide.

    Two big points: 1) The final autopsy report hasn’t been released. We don’t have the full story, just headlines. 2) “Homicide” only means that one person has caused the death of another.

    The term has no bearing on intent or recklessness. The ME’s press release only poured oil on an already fiery situation.

    Again, it’s unfortunate that a life was lost — but to blame Garner’s death on the officers doing their job is ridiculous.

    Whatever crime you’re accused of, whether selling untaxed cigarettes or murder, you must comply with an officer making a lawful arrest. (Anyone who believes he’s been unlawfully arrested can appeal to the well-oiled machine of the Civilian Complaint Review Board.)

    It’s not your right to disregard an officer’s order.

    Also note that the man credited with recording the Garner video was himself later arrested for gun possession, and had 26 priors.

    This doesn’t discredit the video, but it does tell us that the neighborhood where the tragedy unfolded is dangerous. And the point of cracking down on “small” crimes like selling loosies is to keep the neighborhood from going further downhill.

    Tell officers not to enforce “minor” laws, and the surrounding community will grow more dangerous. Yet that is exactly what the Rev. Sharpton is demanding — an end to “broken windows” policing.

    I speak to patrol officers daily; they increasingly don’t want to get involved.

    If you have to second-guess your actions in taking down an assailant, that second guess allows just enough time for the assailant to possibly get a gun out — and pose a deadly threat to you and to nearby civilians. We can’t ask our officers to walk on eggshells while protecting this city.

    Yes, the NYPD can make some changes — do more training in the use of force and different techniques for effecting arrests, and in how to be more courteous when stopping, questioning or (when necessary, and it sometimes is) frisking a civilian.

    But this is already the most professional urban police force in America. The mayor needs to start supporting his commissioner and his officers.
    They’ve earned it.

    Nor was this tragic accident a racial incident. Police officers have no color.

    They’re not black, white, Hispanic or whatever: They’re a cohesive group of men and women who put their life on the line every day for the protection of the law-abiding citizens of this great city.

    Commissioner Bill Bratton is responsible for launching the drastic improvement in the safety of this city in the 1990s, safety we’ve come to take for granted today.

    Listen to him, Mr. Mayor — and don’t ever again force him to take a public chastising from Al Sharpton on how to go about keeping this city safe.

    If you instead bend to the pressure to further hobble the NYPD, you’ll soon have problems much worse than having Sharpton as your enemy.

    Bo Dietl, a retired NYPD detective, is CEO of Beau Dietl & Associates.
    http://nypost.com/2014/08/14/not-a-c...garner-arrest/

    Next time you visit an Arby's tell 'em what you think of their spokesperson.
    Last edited by phill4paul; 12-03-2014 at 09:18 PM.



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  3. #2
    It doesn't matter what it was, anyone watching that video can witness a free and clear murder right before your eyes.

    The cop gets behind him and squeezes his neck until he is dead, what am I missing?

    Ive done a bit of MMA and even at an amateur level one can tell, in an arm bar, when its going to far.
    Last edited by ZENemy; 12-03-2014 at 05:34 PM.
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  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by ZENemy View Post
    It doesn't matter what it was, anyone watching that video can witness a free and clear murder right before your eyes.

    The cop gets behind him and squeezes his neck until he is dead, what am I missing?
    The fact that the guy who did it is a cop. That automagically means that the decedent did it to himself.

  5. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZENemy View Post
    It doesn't matter what it was, anyone watching that video can witness a free and clear murder right before your eyes.

    The cop gets behind him and squeezes his neck until he is dead, what am I missing?
    It wasn't murder. More like pigheaded negligence. Garner was a walking heart attack and the dumb cop should have listened to his muffled cries & realized that this isn't the best course of action.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    The fact that the guy who did it is a cop. That automagically means that the decedent did it to himself.
    By default, oppressor governments have innocent police.
    "One thing my years in Washington taught me is that most politicians are followers, not leaders. Therefore we should not waste time and resources trying to educate politicians. Politicians will not support individual liberty and limited government unless and until they are forced to do so by the people," says Ron Paul."

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    It wasn't murder. More like pigheaded negligence. Garner was a walking heart attack and the dumb cop should have listened to his muffled cries & realized that this isn't the best course of action.
    So either way, he was killed by bacon?


    lol
    "One thing my years in Washington taught me is that most politicians are followers, not leaders. Therefore we should not waste time and resources trying to educate politicians. Politicians will not support individual liberty and limited government unless and until they are forced to do so by the people," says Ron Paul."

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZENemy View Post
    So either way, he was killed by bacon?


    lol
    The foolish cop killed him but it wasn't murder. Murder usually entails intent. No way did he want to destroy his career and kill him. He's dumb but not that dumb.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    It wasn't murder. More like pigheaded negligence. Garner was a walking heart attack and the dumb cop should have listened to his muffled cries & realized that this isn't the best course of action.
    But he didn't. And he is off with a clean bill of health. Hell, like the cops in Cleveland that spent 137 rounds on an unarmed couple, he will probably sue for wages lost. Ain't AmeriKa grand for an agent of the state?



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    The foolish cop killed him but it wasn't murder. Murder usually entails intent. No way did he want to destroy his career and kill him. He's dumb but not that dumb.
    Nice to know. If I ever have to put 15 rounds into a cop I will simply claim that none of the shots were intended to hit a vital organ. It was an accident you see.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    The foolish cop killed him but it wasn't murder. Murder usually entails intent. No way did he want to destroy his career and kill him. He's dumb but not that dumb.
    ok, if we have to be technical then it was an unlawful homicide?

    Either way, I feel that if I put someone in a headlock and ignored their cries that I would be a murderer pre meditated or not, The cop knew what he was doing.
    "One thing my years in Washington taught me is that most politicians are followers, not leaders. Therefore we should not waste time and resources trying to educate politicians. Politicians will not support individual liberty and limited government unless and until they are forced to do so by the people," says Ron Paul."

  13. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZENemy View Post
    ok, if we have to be technical then it was an unlawful homicide?

    Either way, I feel that if I put someone in a headlock and ignored their cries that I would be a murderer pre meditated or not, The cops knew what he was doing.
    Like the judge said. Involuntary manslaughter. Recklessness that veered outside the procedural guidelines.

  14. #12
    There's so much fail in that OP, I don't even know where to begin.
    I have an autographed copy of Revolution: A Manifesto for sale. Mint condition, inquire within. (I don't sign in often, so please allow plenty of time for a response)

  15. #13

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Nice to know. If I ever have to put 15 rounds into a cop I will simply claim that none of the shots were intended to hit a vital organ. It was an accident you see.

    yep, plus most murderers go into full tilt denial out of self preservation....

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by ZENemy View Post
    It doesn't matter what it was, anyone watching that video can witness a free and clear murder right before your eyes.

    The cop gets behind him and squeezes his neck until he is dead, what am I missing?

    Ive done a bit of MMA and even at an amateur level one can tell, in an arm bar, when its going to far.
    This! That was a rear naked choke! Any idiot knows that. And if he didn't know that, when Eric said "I can't breath" that should have been a clue.
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  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    Like the judge said. Involuntary manslaughter. Recklessness that veered outside the procedural guidelines.
    reckless my ass...he rectum. Permanently and DELIBERATLEY.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    The foolish cop killed him but it wasn't murder. Murder usually entails intent. No way did he want to destroy his career and kill him. He's dumb but not that dumb.
    cops are not hired because they know rocket science....or anything for that matter..

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    The foolish cop killed him but it wasn't murder. Murder usually entails intent. No way did he want to destroy his career and kill him. He's dumb but not that dumb.
    Since when does killing people destroy a cop's career? Nine times out of ten it enhances it. Ninety times out of the rest it has no effect. The one time you get popped and something bad goes viral on YouTube, well, at least Just Us will give you a 90% tailwind through the system.

  22. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    The foolish cop killed him but it wasn't murder. Murder usually entails intent. No way did he want to destroy his career and kill him. He's dumb but not that dumb.
    Involuntary manslaughter would be the LEAST we would be charged with, but honestly you and I, mundanes, would probably be facing 2nd degree murder charges.
    Then the ones that helped would be charged with aiding and abetting or accessory at the very least.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by jjdoyle View Post
    Involuntary manslaughter would be the LEAST we would be charged with, but honestly you and I, mundanes, would probably be facing 2nd degree murder charges.
    Then the ones that helped would be charged with aiding and abetting or accessory at the very least.
    Hell, a misdemeanor for jaywalking to choke a mans life out is out of the DA's reach when it comes to cops.

    Justice is in the form of standing armed and equal. Not in the "Just Us" system. That time has passed. For me.

  24. #21
    Eric frein had a surprise party for those cops instead of an ambush.
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  25. #22
    So woke up this morning to local news radio. This article, virtually verbatim was being spoken by a fellow who supposedly called in to give his own opinion on how this case is being misinterpreted. Then the local host proceeds to tell people how they need to never argue with police, comply with any and all orders, and fight it out in court. Well, I started yelling some expletives at the radio by this point.

    Let's just take the case of women who have been falsely arrested and raped, murdered, then tossed out as rubbish. How did that comply thing work for them?

    Fight it out in court? Yeah, okay supposing it doesn't wind up being a loss of life but just false arrest, what judge seriously takes a mundane over an officer? Almost none of them will.

    I am astonished at the level of the propaganda lately. What are the odds this article writer was a local calling in to respond spontaneously to the small town morning show? Call me skeptical. So, mulling through the options on the coordinated propaganda for this particular piece being read today. It ties into Gunny's discussion recently on FB posts. something is amiss here. There is a push on to indoctrinate the public as to being subservient to the enforcement arm of the government regardless of whether the enforcers are wrong or right. It is way too coached and rampant as to the manner in which these supposedly spontaneous responses are occurring.
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  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    It wasn't murder. More like pigheaded negligence. Garner was a walking heart attack and the dumb cop should have listened to his muffled cries & realized that this isn't the best course of action.
    There's some agreement that it certainly wasn't murder 1 or probably not murder 2. It most certainly manslaughter or at least negligent homicide. The cops involved should be serving time. We've seen all kinds of cases where an ordinary citizen has done much less and charged with much more.

  27. #24
    End fact is American police are out of control.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by moostraks View Post
    So woke up this morning to local news radio. This article, virtually verbatim was being spoken by a fellow who supposedly called in to give his own opinion on how this case is being misinterpreted. Then the local host proceeds to tell people how they need to never argue with police, comply with any and all orders, and fight it out in court. Well, I started yelling some expletives at the radio by this point.

    Let's just take the case of women who have been falsely arrested and raped, murdered, then tossed out as rubbish. How did that comply thing work for them?

    Fight it out in court? Yeah, okay supposing it doesn't wind up being a loss of life but just false arrest, what judge seriously takes a mundane over an officer? Almost none of them will.

    I am astonished at the level of the propaganda lately. What are the odds this article writer was a local calling in to respond spontaneously to the small town morning show? Call me skeptical. So, mulling through the options on the coordinated propaganda for this particular piece being read today. It ties into Gunny's discussion recently on FB posts. something is amiss here. There is a push on to indoctrinate the public as to being subservient to the enforcement arm of the government regardless of whether the enforcers are wrong or right. It is way too coached and rampant as to the manner in which these supposedly spontaneous responses are occurring.
    The propaganda really is off the charts recently. I've noticed it also.

  30. #26
    "One thing my years in Washington taught me is that most politicians are followers, not leaders. Therefore we should not waste time and resources trying to educate politicians. Politicians will not support individual liberty and limited government unless and until they are forced to do so by the people," says Ron Paul."

  31. #27
    And it was a headlock, not a chokehold. To be a chokehold, there must be constant pressure on the person’s neck, compressing his windpipe or cutting off the flow of blood to the carotid artery, rendering him unconscious.
    A top medical examiner (who can’t publicly fault the city ME) tells me it was very irresponsible for the Medical Examiner’s Office to issue the press release stating that Garner’s death was caused by a chokehold (with asthma, heart disease and obesity as contributing factors) and ruling his death a homicide.
    So, we are supposed to trust the experts, except when we are not.

    They’re not black, white, Hispanic or whatever: They’re a cohesive group of men and women who put their life on the line every day for the protection of the law-abiding citizens of this great city.
    Here Dietel is right.

    It is Blue vs. Us.

    That is all they know, the Blue Code, the Blue Line.

    They are, by every description, a gang, flying gang colors and just as dangerous as any Crip or Blood you may meet.

  32. #28
    And it was a headlock, not a chokehold. To be a chokehold, there must be constant pressure on the person’s neck, compressing his windpipe or cutting off the flow of blood to the carotid artery, rendering him unconscious.
    A top medical examiner (who can’t publicly fault the city ME) tells me it was very irresponsible for the Medical Examiner’s Office to issue the press release stating that Garner’s death was caused by a chokehold (with asthma, heart disease and obesity as contributing factors) and ruling his death a homicide.
    So, we are supposed to trust the experts, except when we are not.

    They’re not black, white, Hispanic or whatever: They’re a cohesive group of men and women who put their life on the line every day for the protection of the law-abiding citizens of this great city.
    Here Dietel is right.

    It is Blue vs. Us.

    That is all they know, the Blue Code, the Blue Line.

    They are, by every description, a gang, flying gang colors and just as dangerous as any Crip or Blood you may meet.



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