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Thread: Red Friday: Holiday Sales Crater by 11%, Online Sales Decline: NRF Blames "Stronger Economy"

  1. #1

    Red Friday: Holiday Sales Crater by 11%, Online Sales Decline: NRF Blames "Stronger Economy"

    http://www.theburningplatform.com/20...riday-weekend/

    This was an unequivocal disaster. All the hype. All the deals. All the advertising. All the extra hours. And sales PLUMMET by 11% versus a $#@!ty Black Friday weekend last year. You will see bull$#@! excuses like on-line sales surging. Well here is the deal. Annual retail sales are about $5 trillion. On-line sales are less than $500 billion. If bricks and mortar sales decline by 11% and on-line sales go up by 20%, total sales still decline by 8%.

    Black Friday is so named because it was when retailers would go into the black (profitable). It looks like this was a Red weekend. This will be the holiday season where the marginal retailers will begin to fall by the wayside. RadioShack will declare bankruptcy. Sears and JC Penney will lose hundreds of millions.

    The economic recovery storyline is complete and utter bull$#@!. The average American can barely pay their monthly bills. If the storyline was true, there is no way retail sales would be collapsing year over year. Oil prices are deflating. Consumer spending is deflating. Wages are deflating. Global commerce is deflating. The central banks have pumped out more fiat in the last five years than had been created in world history, and their grand experiment has failed.

    The $#@! is hitting the fan and the willfully ignorant masses don’t have a clue. The mood in the country is darkening. The mass media will keep peddling propaganda and falsity right until the end. It’s their job.
    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-1...es-retail-fias

    Last year was bad. This year is an outright disaster.

    As we reported earlier using ShopperTrak data, the first two days of the holiday shopping season were already showing a -0.5% decline across bricks-and-mortar stores, following a "cash for clunkers"-like jump in early promotions which pulled demand forward with little follow through in the remaining shopping days. However, not even we predicted the shocker just released from the National Retail Federation, the traditionally cheery industry organization, which just reported absolutely abysmal numbers: sales during the four-day Thanksgiving holiday period crashed by a whopping 11% from $57.4 billion to $50.9 billion, confirming what everyone but the Fed knows by now: the US middle class is being obliterated, and that key driver of 70% of US economic growth is in the worst shape it has been since the Lehman collapse, courtesy of 6 years of Fed's ruinous central planning.
    [...]
    Also did we mention the NRF is perpetually cheery and always desperate to put a metric ton of lipstick on a pig? Well, hold on to your hats folks:

    He also attributed the declines to better online offerings and an improving economy where “people don’t feel the same psychological need to rush out and get the great deal that weekend, particularly if they expected to be more deals,” he said.
    And of course the sprint vs marathon comparisons, such as this one: "The holiday season and the weekend are a marathon not a sprint,” NRF Chief Executive Officer Matthew Shay said on a conference call. Odd how that metaphor is never used when the (seasonally-adjusted) sprint beats the marathoners.

    So there you have it: a 11% collapse in retail spending has just been spun as super bullish for the US economy, whereby US consumers aren't spending because the economy is simply too strong, and the only reason they don't spend is because they will spend much more later. Or something.

    Apparently the plunge in Americans who even care about bargains is also an indication of an economic resurgence:

    The retail trade group said the number of people who went shopping over the four-day weekend declined by 5.2% to 134 million, from 141 million last year.
    Finally, what we said earlier about a surge in online sales, well forget it - it was a lie based on the now traditional skewed perspectives from a few self-servicing industry organizations:

    Despite many retailers offering the same discounts on the Web as they offered in stores, the Internet didn’t attract more shoppers or more spending than last year. Online sales accounted for 42% of sales racked up over the four-day period, the same percentage as last year, though up from 26% in 2006, the trade group said.
    In fact, it was worse: "Shoppers spent an average $159.55 online, down 10.2% from $177.67 last year."

    But the propaganda piece de resistance is without doubt the following:

    “A highly competitive environment, early promotions and the ability to shop 24/7 online all contributed to the shift witnessed this weekend,” Mr. Shay said.
    So to summarize: holiday sales plunged, and Americans refused to shop because the economy is "stronger than ever" and because Americans have the option of shopping whenever, which is why they didn't shop in the first place. That, and of course plunging gasoline prices leading to... plunging retail sales, just as all the economists "correctly" predicted.

    Goebbels approves.
    Based on the idea of natural rights, government secures those rights to the individual by strictly negative intervention, making justice costless and easy of access; and beyond that it does not go. The State, on the other hand, both in its genesis and by its primary intention, is purely anti-social. It is not based on the idea of natural rights, but on the idea that the individual has no rights except those that the State may provisionally grant him. It has always made justice costly and difficult of access, and has invariably held itself above justice and common morality whenever it could advantage itself by so doing.
    --Albert J. Nock



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  3. #2
    Black Friday has now become "Black Week". Sales started even before Thanksgiving. Sales on Thanksgiving day were up 14% and online sales up 9%.

    http://www.cnet.com/news/did-thanksg...-soar-or-sink/



    "The greatest collapse since Lehman Brothers"? Seriously?

  4. #3
    Damn. I was gonna post an "in before Zippy."

  5. #4
    Increase for Nov /Dec total ,plus or minus 2 percent from last yr , my guess .These are the good times , until the next downturn .

  6. #5
    A rising tide floats all boats.

    But the head psychos in charge these days would rather pick the lint out of our pockets while we scrape barnacles all day.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only want the freedoms that will undermine the nation and lead to the destruction of liberty.

  7. #6
    I spent $414 on a cable tester yesterday (Monday)

  8. #7
    http://www.triplett.com/shop/low-voltage-pro/

    With the toner probe and 20 remotes.

  9. #8
    After Abysmal Thanksgiving Spending, Cyber Monday Is Latest Dud, Rising Less Than Half 2013 Pace
    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-1...ppointment-ris
    Prepare to hear much more of the "retail spending slowed down because the economy is just too strong" excuses today, used most hilariously by the NRF on Sunday to explain the unprecedented 11% collapse in the 2014 4-day holiday weekend spend, when pundits "justify" why Cyber Monday sales were only the latest proof the US consumer - that 70% driver of US GDP - is being crushed day after day, pardon, basking in the warm glow of America's centrally-planned golden age.

    Here are the facts: Internet holiday shopping rose only 8.1% on Cyber Monday yesterday, usually the busiest day for Web shopping as people return to their desks after the U.S. Thanksgiving holiday weekend. This was a big miss to expectations, and is less than half then growth posted just last year, when online sales grew at 17.5%, according to IBM.
    [...]
    Yes, consumer spending is plunging due to a stronger economy. Clearly this guy went to Princeton.

    All of which is not only funny, but an outright lie as well, because as reported previously, when aggregating all the Thanksgiving spending data from Thursday to Sunday, we find that shoppers spent an average $159.55 online, down 10.2% from $177.67 last year. This took place as there was an actual decline in the percentage of Black Friday weekend shopping taking place online. So not only did Americans buy less online, they spent less online!
    [...]
    Which is why, of course, one needs spin. The problem is when people no longer buy, pardon the pun, the bull$#@!:

    This year, many shoppers stayed home. The NRF had predicted that 140.1 million customers would visit retailers last weekend. Instead, only 133.7 million showed up. The slow start may make it harder for retailers to hit sales targets over the next month. The NRF had predicted a 4.1 percent sales gain for November and December -- the best performance since 2011.

    And it may still get it... if all retailers go "full Amazon" and liquidate their wares well below cost, leading to another wave of retail bankruptcies and even more evil, evil deflation.
    Red Friday, in more ways than one.
    Based on the idea of natural rights, government secures those rights to the individual by strictly negative intervention, making justice costless and easy of access; and beyond that it does not go. The State, on the other hand, both in its genesis and by its primary intention, is purely anti-social. It is not based on the idea of natural rights, but on the idea that the individual has no rights except those that the State may provisionally grant him. It has always made justice costly and difficult of access, and has invariably held itself above justice and common morality whenever it could advantage itself by so doing.
    --Albert J. Nock



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Damn. I was gonna post an "in before Zippy."
    Yep, In with the timely excuse. Gotta love it. LIESman is that you? lol

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucille View Post
    After Abysmal Thanksgiving Spending, Cyber Monday Is Latest Dud, Rising Less Than Half 2013 Pace
    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-1...ppointment-ris


    Red Friday, in more ways than one.
    Rose at a slower pace but sales were still higher than last year.

    Yes, consumer spending is plunging due to a stronger economy.
    Rising is not plunging.

    http://news.yahoo.com/us-stocks-rise...145650709.html

    US stocks rise on upbeat 'Cyber Monday' sales

    New York (AFP) - Wall Street stocks gained in early trade Tuesday, following upbeat data on "Cyber Monday," seen by many as the yearly highpoint for online shopping.

    The broad-based S&P 500 advanced 6.48 (0.32 percent) to 2,059.92, while the tech-rich Nasdaq Composite Index rose 15.68 (0.33 percent) to 4,743.03.

    US online sales Monday came in at $2.65 billion, up 16 percent from 2013, according to the Adobe 2014 Digital Index. The figures for Monday's big day of online discounts helped offset disappointing data on the "Black Friday" kickoff of the holiday shopping season.

    Briefing.com analyst Patrick O'Hare said the preliminary data on both Black Friday and Cyber Monday "probably need to be taken with a grain of salt considering how extended the holiday shopping season has gotten with the never-ending promotional activity online."
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 12-02-2014 at 11:47 AM.

  13. #11
    Yeah, it's just the days of whine and $#@!ing roses, ain't it?!

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-1...rash-explained

    With Black Friday sales plunging and Cyber Monday growth slowing, it appears the chicken of stagnant wages and debt-saturation are coming home to roost for a massacred middle-class America. However, as WSJ reports "we are buying less stuff," because the basic costs of necessities such as healthcare, food eaten at home, rent, education, and cellphones have surged.
    Based on the idea of natural rights, government secures those rights to the individual by strictly negative intervention, making justice costless and easy of access; and beyond that it does not go. The State, on the other hand, both in its genesis and by its primary intention, is purely anti-social. It is not based on the idea of natural rights, but on the idea that the individual has no rights except those that the State may provisionally grant him. It has always made justice costly and difficult of access, and has invariably held itself above justice and common morality whenever it could advantage itself by so doing.
    --Albert J. Nock

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    ...

    "The greatest collapse since Lehman Brothers"? Seriously?
    Seriously.

    "Clearly A Negative Signal": BofA Shows Thanksgiving Spending Was Biggest Dud Since Lehman
    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-1...est-dud-lehman
    First it was Shoppertrak, then it was the National Retail Federation, then it was IBM, and now, with its own set of internal data, here is Bank of America slamming the door shut on US retail spending as a source of Q4 growth, and proving once and for all that the extended Thanksgiving-weekend, and the start to US holiday spending season, was the biggest dud since Lehman.
    [...]


    This is how the data looks in context, courtesy of Goldman. As we said: biggest dud since Lehman.



    Of course, it wouldn't be a conflicted sell-side firm whose year end bonus is dependent on boosting confidence in a global pyramid scheme if BofA didn't provide at least some silver lining. Which it did.
    [...]
    Well, at least BofA didn't use the NRF's idiotic "the economy is too strong for shopper to need a deal" excuse. As for the spin: yes, there is still hope. Because otherwise how would one explain spending slumping to recessionary levels at a time when the Departments of Truth would have everyone believe unemployment is the lowest in nearly a decade, while GDP is supposedly growing at a pace not seen since in years (the real story of America's "adjusted" GDP was explained here).
    Based on the idea of natural rights, government secures those rights to the individual by strictly negative intervention, making justice costless and easy of access; and beyond that it does not go. The State, on the other hand, both in its genesis and by its primary intention, is purely anti-social. It is not based on the idea of natural rights, but on the idea that the individual has no rights except those that the State may provisionally grant him. It has always made justice costly and difficult of access, and has invariably held itself above justice and common morality whenever it could advantage itself by so doing.
    --Albert J. Nock

  15. #13
    http://www.npr.org/2014/12/02/368026...r-carts-online

    Holiday Shoppers Are Filling Their Carts, Online

    This weekend, Will Falls decided to skip the local mall near Raleigh, N.C., and shop online instead.

    "No standing in line, no finding a parking spot," he says. "Just get comfortable and go at it."

    Millions of Americans did the same — Falls helped contribute to an 8.5 percent increase in online shopping Monday compared with 2013, according to data from IBM.

    That growth stands in contrast to an 11 percent drop in sales reported by the National Retail Federation at brick-and-mortar stores over the Black Friday weekend compared with a year ago.

    "I definitely believe there is cannibalization occurring from the perspective of online against the stores," says Bob Drbul, an analyst and managing director at Nomura Securities.


    Of course, some of that cannibalization is going to the retailers' own online arms, he notes.

    As for how consumers shopped online, most used desktop computers, which accounted for three-quarters of online sales — though the use of mobile devices rose sharply.

    Another reason for the drop in in-store shopping this past weekend, Durbl says, is that retailers spread their Black Friday sales across the whole month of November.
    Folks getting tired of the Black Friday chaos too.

    "It literally took him two hours just to get through to the register with a couple of hoodie sweaters," Phillips says. "So that just sort of ... verified the reason why I don't go out on Black Friday."

    Phillips, meanwhile, did her shopping online, including finding some new Doc Marten boots for her husband. She looked first for the best price on Amazon, "and then I actually went straight to the manufacturer's website ... and I found an equally good price there, all with free shipping."

    That kind of price shopping and free shipping is forcing profit margins down for retailers, says analyst Drbul. But he expects a strong holiday season nevertheless.

    A big reason is that falling gas prices are putting more money in consumers' pockets.

    This year, Drbul says, "has the potential to be the best retail performance since 2011."

  16. #14
    Who cares about retail sales when 90% of the $#@! is imported?

  17. #15
    Black Friday Sales Shifted to Thanksgiving Day

    http://thinkprogress.org/economy/201...hopping-sales/

    Retailers that open their doors on Thanksgiving Day in hopes of boosting holiday sales are shifting purchases away from Black Friday, rather than increasing the number of overall transactions.

    According to an initial reading of data from consumer analytics firm ShopperTrak, “combined sales on Thanksgiving and Black Friday fell 0.5 percent from the same period last year,” the New York Times notes.

    The data shows that sales increased 27.3 percent on Thanksgiving Day, but fell by 5.6 percent on Black Friday. A different survey from IBM also found that online shopping was up 14.3 percent on Thanksgiving Day from the same time last year.

    “People are changing their behavior,” said Bill Martin, ShopperTrak’s co-founder. “We’ve seen this for two years in a row now. Stores opening on Thanksgiving are simply eroding sales from Black Friday.”

  18. #16
    LOL Hey, Zippy. If you actually look at the charts in the last ZH piece, they include Thanksgiving sales. But that was a good try. Good enough for government work!
    Based on the idea of natural rights, government secures those rights to the individual by strictly negative intervention, making justice costless and easy of access; and beyond that it does not go. The State, on the other hand, both in its genesis and by its primary intention, is purely anti-social. It is not based on the idea of natural rights, but on the idea that the individual has no rights except those that the State may provisionally grant him. It has always made justice costly and difficult of access, and has invariably held itself above justice and common morality whenever it could advantage itself by so doing.
    --Albert J. Nock



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Black Friday Sales Shifted to Thanksgiving Day

    http://thinkprogress.org/economy/201...hopping-sales/
    How awesome! So we can revel in the fact that marketing as finally been sooo successful that the family holiday has been corrupted now to the point that we can all say screw family, I have to save some cash and get all those cheap Chinese goods at the Thanksgiving day sale!

    So followed your link and it is titled:Opening On Thanksgiving Backfires For Retail Stores

    Now since you want to be the voice of joy for holiday sales, even your article states that sales are falling overall even with the shifting. So what are we supposed to be finding in your links as the reason the OP is somehow refuted? You seem to be playing the statistics game acting as though folks are too ignorant to look at the overall numbers.
    We will be known forever by the tracks we leave. - Dakota


    Go Forward With Courage

    When you are in doubt, be still, and wait;
    when doubt no longer exists for you, then go forward with courage.
    So long as mists envelop you, be still;
    be still until the sunlight pours through and dispels the mists
    -- as it surely will.
    Then act with courage.

    Ponca Chief White Eagle

  21. #18
    dup...
    We will be known forever by the tracks we leave. - Dakota


    Go Forward With Courage

    When you are in doubt, be still, and wait;
    when doubt no longer exists for you, then go forward with courage.
    So long as mists envelop you, be still;
    be still until the sunlight pours through and dispels the mists
    -- as it surely will.
    Then act with courage.

    Ponca Chief White Eagle

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucille View Post
    LOL Hey, Zippy. If you actually look at the charts in the last ZH piece, they include Thanksgiving sales. But that was a good try. Good enough for government work!
    I'm honestly not sure he understands that.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by moostraks View Post
    How awesome! So we can revel in the fact that marketing as finally been sooo successful that the family holiday has been corrupted now to the point that we can all say screw family, I have to save some cash and get all those cheap Chinese goods at the Thanksgiving day sale!

    So followed your link and it is titled:Opening On Thanksgiving Backfires For Retail Stores

    Now since you want to be the voice of joy for holiday sales, even your article states that sales are falling overall even with the shifting. So what are we supposed to be finding in your links as the reason the OP is somehow refuted? You seem to be playing the statistics game acting as though folks are too ignorant to look at the overall numbers.
    Article says stores wanted to get more total sales by being open more. They got about the same sales since some who would have had to only shop on Friday were able to do so on Thursday. Combined sales for the two days was about the same as year before- not a "collapse" as some are trying to claim.

  24. #21
    System is giving lots of double posts today.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Rose at a slower pace but sales were still higher than last year.
    With the 'quantitative easing' (aka making the money the old fashioned way--printing it) we've seen lately, a numerical rise can easily be a drop in actual value.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Rising is not plunging.
    Firstly, you're looking at the short term, as usual. The numbers haven't even risen to 2007 levels.

    Secondly, you're talking about numbers again, not value. Go tell it to Zimbabwe, and see if anyone's impressed. They might not be the sharpest tools in the shed, by and large, but they can sure tell you how the numbers can go up and the whole thing can plunge at the same time.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 12-03-2014 at 03:33 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only want the freedoms that will undermine the nation and lead to the destruction of liberty.

  26. #23
    I don't say they have risen to 2007 levels. But they have definitely improved a lot since the bottom of 2009.

    But if you prefer to see that things suck and will only suck more in the future that is fine. The end is near! Get out while you can!

  27. #24
    More double posts showing up!



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Article says stores wanted to get more total sales by being open more. They got about the same sales since some who would have had to only shop on Friday were able to do so on Thursday. Combined sales for the two days was about the same as year before- not a "collapse" as some are trying to claim.
    Okay, so let me get this straight, last year was not a bad year for sales (down according to OP) and sales are not down from last year (by 11% year to year according to some it appears), and the population does not increase annually therefore implying that more people should be more sales?
    We will be known forever by the tracks we leave. - Dakota


    Go Forward With Courage

    When you are in doubt, be still, and wait;
    when doubt no longer exists for you, then go forward with courage.
    So long as mists envelop you, be still;
    be still until the sunlight pours through and dispels the mists
    -- as it surely will.
    Then act with courage.

    Ponca Chief White Eagle

  30. #26
    I don't see the "collapse" some are calling for. Should also note that the "shopping season" runs through December 25th- not just one or two days (if you want to talk about looking at short term figures acptulsa) and figures so far are just preliminary.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    I don't say they have risen to 2007 levels. But they have definitely improved a lot since the bottom of 2009.

    But if you prefer to see that things suck and will only suck more in the future that is fine. The end is near! Get out while you can!
    Things will suck more in the future unless we succeed in getting some powerful people fired and make it clear we're ready, willing and able to get more of them fired. What else could possibly change their profitable behavior? Sitting around saying, 'Things could be worse I guess,' and burying our heads in the sand hasn't exactly had a salutary effect so far.

    Keep handing out pacifiers, Z2.0, and we'll keep spitting them out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only want the freedoms that will undermine the nation and lead to the destruction of liberty.

  32. #28
    I'm not in retail, but we share space with retail and vendor outlets. You'd never know there was a bad economy by today. They were packed. It was the busiest Wednesday I can ever remember. Every one of our guests was interested in shopping because they all asked. I've never seen such in all my life. I had people on my tours who bought so much they had to ship it home. I imagine that store did big business, too.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by tobismom View Post
    I'm not in retail, but we share space with retail and vendor outlets. You'd never know there was a bad economy by today. They were packed. It was the busiest Wednesday I can ever remember. Every one of our guests was interested in shopping because they all asked. I've never seen such in all my life. I had people on my tours who bought so much they had to ship it home. I imagine that store did big business, too.
    Anecdotal evidence is just that, but.....me too. The stores in my little podunk town are all saying that they're busier than usual.

  34. #30
    Wow, so black Friday starts ON thanksgiving now... How many years until we start shopping the day after Halloween? On Halloween? Hell, why not 4th of July Christmas shopping?
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

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