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Thread: Will Copyright Law Stop You From Working On Your Car In The Near Future?

  1. #1

    Will Copyright Law Stop You From Working On Your Car In The Near Future?

    Also, you can't just have people going about fixing their own cars. You'd be stealing mechanics' jobs, and the govt's cut from the professional repair too.

    Will Copyright Law Stop You From Working On Your Car In The Near Future?
    Privacy group warns tinkering under hood could violate DMCA
    http://autos.aol.com/article/will-co...r-in-the-near/

    Plan on repairing or modifying a car in the garage this weekend? You might want to first consult a copyright lawyer.

    In a development that illustrates just how much cars have become mobile computers on wheels, a privacy group is warning mechanics and car enthusiasts that tinkering with the computers that run dozens of vehicle components, without a manufacturer's approval, may constitute a copyright violation.

    The Electronic Frontier Foundation, a nonprofit watchdog, says the Digital Millennium Copyright Act may prohibit modifying the code that runs these small computers, known as electronic control units (ECU). The organization is asking the US Copyright Office to exempt hobbyists and home mechanics from the law. In the petition, the EFF asks the office to eliminate the legal risks posed to vehicle owners who are "engaged in a decades-old tradition of mechanical curiosity and self-reliance."

    Once every three years, the Copyright Office holds hearings to consider whether certain activities should be exempt from the DMCA's Section 1201, which restricts people from circumventing technological measures that control access to "protected works." No dates have yet been set, but a ruling is expected by mid-2015.

    "The general principle at stake is that people who own a device are the ones in control of what it does, rather than be constrained to use it only in the way a manufacturer wants," says EFF staff attorney Kit Walsh. "The idea of ownership, in a way, is under threat when the law prevents you from altering a product in any way."

    Needed: Access To ECUs

    In the past, it may have seemed preposterous to lump a gearhead tinkering with his car under the same digital umbrella that catches people who jailbreak their phones. But today, dozens of ECUs run almost all vehicle functions, including the performance of the engine, steering and brakes. These units are run by computer code that automakers consider proprietary.

    Both professional mechanics and everyday hobbyists increasingly need electronic access and expertise in ECUs and the software that runs them.

    One activity, for example, that falls into a gray area under the DMCA law would be modifying an ECU in a manner that boosts engine performance or, conversely, fuel economy. Another questionable activity may be using extra memory on an ECU to create or customize a specific feature in a car's telematics unit.

    At present, there's no known case in which an automaker has pursued litigation against an individual under the banner of a DMCA violation. At worst, it seems a car owner runs the risk of voiding their warranty by altering these codes. But that could change.
    [...]
    Interpretation Could Have Broad Impact

    Implications go beyond niche aftermarket products. Security researchers studying automotive cyber threats, whose out-in-the-open work has prodded carmakers to better protect their cars, could see efforts to publish detailed findings curtailed.

    Hypothetically, the EFF says, the likes of General Motors, Honda and Ford could supply ECU codes only to repair companies they contract with – or steer that business entirely to authorized dealerships. Car owners' power to choose where they want their car repaired could be diminished.

    "That's exactly what can happen, and we've seen the DMCA used to extend monopolies before," Walsh said. "It gives manufacturers the power to control secondary markets by leveraging the copyright law, if it doesn't include enough of a safety valve to allow for lawful uses."
    [...]
    Relevant Ruling In Toner-Cartridge Case

    If there's any precedent for how the Copyright Office might view the automotive petition, it comes from a ruling in a 2012 lawsuit over printer cartridges heard in the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals, in which judges ruled the circumvention of a computer chip that ensured only authorized toner cartridges worked Lexmark printers did not violate the DMCA.

    In writing the majority opinion, of the judges emphasized the broad intent of the ruling. "We should make clear that in the future, companies like Lexmark cannot use the DMCA in conjunction with copyright law to create monopolies of manufactured goods for themselves," Judge Gilbert S. Merritt wrote.

    The ruling is framed in terms of accessibility. It upholds the idea the copyright law protects the original work, but says the law does not protect a security measure, such as a lockout code, designed to protect the original work.

    It's not yet known how precisely another court could apply that ruling to a case involving ECUs inside a car, but the alternative, Walsh said, could imperil anyone who enjoys working under the hood of a car. "Imagine opening the hood," he said, "and you're looking at your engine and everything is in black boxes, and you don't have any of the keys for the locks."
    Based on the idea of natural rights, government secures those rights to the individual by strictly negative intervention, making justice costless and easy of access; and beyond that it does not go. The State, on the other hand, both in its genesis and by its primary intention, is purely anti-social. It is not based on the idea of natural rights, but on the idea that the individual has no rights except those that the State may provisionally grant him. It has always made justice costly and difficult of access, and has invariably held itself above justice and common morality whenever it could advantage itself by so doing.
    --Albert J. Nock



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  3. #2
    $#@! a bunch of computer cars.

  4. #3
    Copyright law was invented to prevent people from exactly duplicating things and selling them.

    Now copyright law is used to prevent people from buying things, altering them, and not making a penny?

    That's like using copyright law not to keep you from photocopying the book you bought and selling the copies, but to keep you from buying a book, whiting out a few lines, and writing your own words in their place.

    As many laws as they pass every day, why do they spend so much time perverting existing laws to do things they were never intended to cover? Do they think we won't notice we're being legislated into oblivion if all the new laws have familiar (inaccurate, but familiar) names?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only want the freedoms that will undermine the nation and lead to the destruction of liberty.

  5. #4
    At best they can refuse to protect your warranty, unless you've signed an agreement which says you won't do something.
    pcosmar's lie : There are more votes than registered Voters..

  6. #5
    Why even hack or modify it if it's possible to scrap the entire OEM ECM unit and pop in a low cost (free plans/software?) customizable clone.

    I expect to see evolving expanded features and dazzling eye candy displays followed by more laws and restrictions regarding emissions...

    This could become another Open Source "shared" opportunity (e.g., Linux, Arduino, etc.) with a built from scratch hardware/software interface.

  7. #6
    LibForestPaul
    Member

    Its for control. You will not own your car in the future if you want it to be driven on "public" roadways.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    $#@! a bunch of computer cars.
    +1

    any vehicle in my garage will not have a computer on or in it... accept for my video recorder.

    Regards

    Acesfull

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Copyright law was invented to prevent people from exactly duplicating things and selling them.

    Now copyright law is used to prevent people from buying things, altering them, and not making a penny?

    That's like using copyright law not to keep you from photocopying the book you bought and selling the copies, but to keep you from buying a book, whiting out a few lines, and writing your own words in their place.

    As many laws as they pass every day, why do they spend so much time perverting existing laws to do things they were never intended to cover?
    Do they think we won't notice we're being legislated into oblivion if all the new laws have familiar (inaccurate, but familiar) names?
    Typically Big Business interests. Big Entertainment has always gotten loads of money through the copyright scam. Other industries do it too. As long as congress' votes continue to be for sale to the highest bidder, expect ever more $#@! like this. Technocracy nightmare is just around the corner.... 1984 2.0.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by LibForestPaul View Post
    Its for control. You will not own your car in the future if you want it to be driven on "public" roadways.
    Forget the future, the future is now.. An owner of a vehicle is required to register the vehicle and stick government issued plates on said vehicle. If the owner fails to put the plates on his/her vehicle the vehicle will be stop by a leo and possible confiscated/towed. So let me ask, do we really own our vehicle?

    Also be aware that by putting tags/plates on said vehicle, a citizen is exposing himself/herself to all kinds of evildoers.. Your right to is privacy gone.

    Regards

    ACESFULL
    Last edited by acesfull; 12-02-2014 at 01:49 PM.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by FindLiberty View Post
    Why even hack or modify it if it's possible to scrap the entire OEM ECM unit and pop in a low cost (free plans/software?) customizable clone.

    I expect to see evolving expanded features and dazzling eye candy displays followed by more laws and restrictions regarding emissions...

    This could become another Open Source "shared" opportunity (e.g., Linux, Arduino, etc.) with a built from scratch hardware/software interface.
    Because the factory ecus in newer cars are good, really good. Way better than anything available aftermarket other than ultra high end racing stuff. It works out better to just reverse engineer and reflash the factory ecu.

    This is like saying dell is going to come after you because you bought their computer and installed linux. Not gonna happen.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by acesfull View Post
    Forget the future, the future is now.. An owner of a vehicle is required to register the vehicle and stick government issued plates on said vehicle. If the owner fails to put the plates on his/her vehicle the vehicle will be stop by a leo and possible confiscated/towed. So let me ask, do we really own our vehicle?

    Also be aware that by putting tags/plates on said vehicle, a citizen is exposing himself/herself to all kinds of evildoers.. Your right to is privacy gone.

    Regards

    ACESFULL
    Yeah, this^^ There are actually quite a few things "we" don't own-anything you have to pay a fee or tax for, first of all. (I hate "we", but it's generally accurate here)
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  14. #12
    $#@! all of that! i will do as i please with ANYTHING i buy.

  15. #13
    WTF! It Should Not Be Illegal to Hack Your Own Car’s Computer
    http://www.strike-the-root.com/wtf-i...0%99s-computer

    "Cars, especially, have a profound legacy of tinkering. Hobbyists have always modded them, rearranged their guts, and reframed their exteriors. Which is why it’s mind-boggling to me that the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) just had to ask permission from the Copyright Office for tinkerers to modify and repair their own cars."
    “Two of EFF’s requests this year are on behalf of people who need to access the software in cars so they can do basic things like repair, modify, and test the security of their vehicles,” says Kit Walsh of the EFF. “Because Section 1201 of the DMCA prohibits unlocking ‘access controls’—also known as digital rights management (DRM)—on the software, car companies can threaten anyone who needs to get around those restrictions, no matter how legitimate the reason.”

    The DMCA, more formally known as the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, is a copyright law that governs (very imperfectly) what the public can do with creative content—things like music, movies, and software.

    So, what does copyright have to do with cars? Quite a lot, actually.

    Modern cars aren’t merely mechanical creatures; there’s more to them than engines and gearboxes. They house incredibly complex, high-functioning computers: a labyrinthine network of sensors and wires and software that is constantly measuring, communicating, and making adjustments to the engine, drivetrain, and suspension. A single car contains as many as 50 different ECUs—computer units that govern functions like acceleration and braking.

    You can buy a car, but you don’t own the software in its computers. That’s proprietary; it’s copyrighted; and it belongs to its manufacturers.

    But if you’re tech-savvy and code-literate, it’s possible to crawl into that ECU and take control of it. To twist the programming into new shapes and make the engine perform to a set of parameters not authorized by the manufacturer. To make the car faster. Or more fuel efficient. Or more powerful.
    [...]
    No one has yet been prosecuted for hacking their own car, but they could. And as locks become more prevalent, the EFF and iFixit are willing to bet that, eventually, some carmaker will bring the DMCA hammer down on a hobbyist’s head. So we’re are taking a stand now.

    “Without an exemption, we could also lose out on the insights and inventions of the millions of Americans who enjoy tinkering with and improving their cars,” Kit Walsh explains. “… Not all ECU code is copyrightable, and not all ECUs are locked down in a way that triggers DMCA liability, but people shouldn’t have to hire a copyright lawyer before repairing their cars.”

    I certainly hope the Copyright Office agrees, because I’d hate to see a future where tinkering under the hood of my Mazda makes me a criminal.
    Based on the idea of natural rights, government secures those rights to the individual by strictly negative intervention, making justice costless and easy of access; and beyond that it does not go. The State, on the other hand, both in its genesis and by its primary intention, is purely anti-social. It is not based on the idea of natural rights, but on the idea that the individual has no rights except those that the State may provisionally grant him. It has always made justice costly and difficult of access, and has invariably held itself above justice and common morality whenever it could advantage itself by so doing.
    --Albert J. Nock

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucille View Post
    WTF! It Should Not Be Illegal to Hack Your Own Car’s Computer
    It always has been. Because Clean Air. The EPA would just love to get you for that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only want the freedoms that will undermine the nation and lead to the destruction of liberty.

  17. #15
    Screw it, my next car will be from the 60s or 70s.
    "I know the urge to arm yourself, because that’s what I did. I was trained in firearms. When I walked to the hospital when my husband was sick, I carried a concealed weapon. I made the determination that if somebody was going to try to take me out I was going to take them with me."

    Diane Feinstein, 1995

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    $#@! a bunch of computer cars.
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

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    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post

  21. #18
    Forget about the computer...

    What happens when you can print the part you need? Right now, these parts are uniquely designed for the type of vehicle which means you have to buy them from the dealer or authorized parts manufacturer. "Authorized" meaning that they have paid a sum to the dealer for the privilege of being able to sell the part. All of that goes away with 3D printing. We are going to have a big push for IP law as it relates to part specs. Dimensions are going to be IP.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    $#@! a bunch of computer cars.

    glad i still have my 70 mustang.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Forget about the computer...

    What happens when you can print the part you need? Right now, these parts are uniquely designed for the type of vehicle which means you have to buy them from the dealer or authorized parts manufacturer. "Authorized" meaning that they have paid a sum to the dealer for the privilege of being able to sell the part. All of that goes away with 3D printing. We are going to have a big push for IP law as it relates to part specs. Dimensions are going to be IP.
    and just wait til government bans people from driving cars with "unauthorized" or "not approved" parts out of "safety" concerns.
    pcosmar's lie : There are more votes than registered Voters..

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Copyright law was invented to prevent people from exactly duplicating things and selling them.

    Now copyright law is used to prevent people from buying things, altering them, and not making a penny?

    That's like using copyright law not to keep you from photocopying the book you bought and selling the copies, but to keep you from buying a book, whiting out a few lines, and writing your own words in their place.

    As many laws as they pass every day, why do they spend so much time perverting existing laws to do things they were never intended to cover?
    Do they think we won't notice we're being legislated into oblivion if all the new laws have familiar (inaccurate, but familiar) names?
    They (the lawmakers and PTB) know from whence their bread is buttered. Corporations don't donate millions of dollars to parties and campaigns out of the goodness of their hearts. They know the pols will scratch their backs in return with nonsense like the DMCA. Welcome to corporatism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by satchelmcqueen View Post
    $#@! all of that! i will do as i please with ANYTHING i buy.
    Not in Amerika, by God! Read the EULA-you don't truly own much of anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Uriel999 View Post
    Screw it, my next car will be from the 60s or 70s.
    1995 is the approximate cut off date. I have an 1989 dodge ram that is OBDI. these computers are pretty basic. (think ATARI)
    I was even able to modify it to some degree... I pulled the 3 speed auto and changed it out for the 4 speed (OD) unit, pulled the 318 and installed a Jasper stage 1 replacement.
    I added headers, a true dual exhaust (with dual cats) an edelbrock 4 barrel intake with an adapter plate for the TBI off of a compatible 360. and 3.55 gears with an auburn.
    it took the new computer 3 days to get used to the new combo...

    so, while it does still have a "computer" it cannot tell on me. after 96 everything is OBDII. and I really don't think you can mess with them very much.
    my friend told me just the other day, that soon new cars will not have starters anymore... with MPFI they are just going to squirt some fuel into any cylinder that is on the compression stoke and fire the plug (and repeat) to start the motor.
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

    "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. - Thomas Jefferson.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    They (the lawmakers and PTB) know from whence their bread is buttered. Corporations don't donate millions of dollars to parties and campaigns out of the goodness of their hearts. They know the pols will scratch their backs in return with nonsense like the DMCA. Welcome to corporatism.
    Corporatism is just capitalism you don't agree with. A communist can come around and say land ownership is unjust capitalism too, how would you obejctively determine he's wrong and you're right to oppose intellectual property?
    pcosmar's lie : There are more votes than registered Voters..



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Uriel999 View Post
    Screw it, my next car will be from the 60s or 70s.
    Right!! I have two "antique" cars and I love them. There's no electronics, the systems are simple to work on, there's a WHOLE lot less wiring, and I have "lifetime" antique plates that I never have to worry about having expired tags...
    BEWARE THE CULT OF "GOVERNMENT"

    Christian Anarchy - Our Only Hope For Liberty In Our Lifetime!
    Sonmi 451: Truth is singular. Its "versions" are mistruths.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ChristianAnarchist

    Use an internet archive site like
    THIS ONE
    to archive the article and create the link to the article content instead.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by PRB View Post
    Corporatism is just capitalism you don't agree with. A communist can come around and say land ownership is unjust capitalism too, how would you obejctively determine he's wrong and you're right to oppose intellectual property?
    Da fuq? Communists are sane enough to know the difference between property and ideas. They never had to make up a class of property and call it "property in land"-it had long been discovered by natural law. Corporatists made up modern IP out of thin air, based on the old English mercantilist system which had been enshrined in the CONstitution by the fascist "Founding Fathers" (quotes necessary because its a propaganda slogan I choose not to recognize).
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    Da fuq? Communists are sane enough to know the difference between property and ideas. They never had to make up a class of property and call it "property in land"-it had long been discovered by natural law.
    Can you prove it wasn't made up and natural?

    Corporatists made up modern IP out of thin air, based on the old English mercantilist system which had been enshrined in the CONstitution by the fascist "Founding Fathers" (quotes necessary because its a propaganda slogan I choose not to recognize).
    No, they didn't. IP isn't made up our of thin air any more than other property is/was.
    pcosmar's lie : There are more votes than registered Voters..

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by PRB View Post
    A communist can come around and say land ownership is unjust capitalism too, how would you obejctively determine he's wrong and you're right to oppose intellectual property?

    You're this forum's most avid communist, so how you would answer that?
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    ...I believe that when the government is capable of doing a thing, it will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    which one of yall fuckers wrote the "ron paul" racist news letters
    Quote Originally Posted by Dforkus View Post
    Zippy's posts are a great contribution.




    Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post
    You're this forum's most avid communist, so how you would answer that?
    I am not a communist, or socialist, but I'll answer it. Property is whatever you can defend and protect, not more not less. Intellectual property is no less property than land or food or labor, if you can control it and defend it, it's property. Contrary to what IP opponents say, IP isn't a recent invention or created out of nothing by corporatists or government, it's born out of market necessity by people who create and benefit from it. IP is property the same reason anything is, because a person can protect it.
    pcosmar's lie : There are more votes than registered Voters..

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by PRB View Post
    I am not a communist, or socialist, ...

    Okay, call yourself a progressive. Whatever, bud.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    ...I believe that when the government is capable of doing a thing, it will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    which one of yall fuckers wrote the "ron paul" racist news letters
    Quote Originally Posted by Dforkus View Post
    Zippy's posts are a great contribution.




    Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members

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