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Thread: Martinsburg WV Police Shoot Wayne A. Jones 23 Times for Walking Next to Sidewalk

  1. #1

    Martinsburg WV Police Shoot Wayne A. Jones 23 Times for Walking Next to Sidewalk

    Martinsburg WV Police Shoot Wayne A. Jones 23 Times for Walking Next to Sidewalk

    http://www.copblock.org/86874/martin...t-to-sidewalk/

    By THE FULL COURT PRESS & Virginia Cop Block:
    THINGS YOU SHOULD KNOW
    • Wayne had no warrants for his arrest and had committed no crimes.
    • Wayne had no drugs or alcohol in his system.
    • Judge states in her Order for Summary Judgement “NO KNIFE WAS EVER PRODUCED”
    • Approximately 50 conflicting material statements by LEO in State Police File, Depositions and videos.
    • Case illegitimately thrown out because a RESPONSE to a discovery request was deemed to have been filed ‘one’ day late.
    • Dashcam videos admittedly “altered” by West Virginia State Police prior to releasing them to family.
    • Officer allegedly stabbed stated, in fact, “He was not stabbed” on the video and Medical file refutes any treatment for cuts/stabbing.
    • Officer states they shot him because “he was just $#@!’in laying there and wouldn’t do nothin”.
    • Bullet fragments/pieces found on front of Wayne’s shirt – furthering the reality that he was lying face down when (5) Cops shot him 23 times.

    Wayne A. Jones was walking down the street beside the sidewalk at 11:30pm on March 3, 2013. An Officer Lehman lurked behind him in his patrol unit watching Wayne as he was walking. As Wayne made a wide turn around a parked car, he immediately turned in towards the curb and continued walking. The video depicts Wayne stopping at an intersection and then crossing the street and ultimately stopping when the Officer pulled his vehicle over and exited.
    Help the Estate of Wayne A. Jones hold these Cops Responsible!
    A consensual encounter ensued where Wayne attempted to articulate where he was going and why he was not walking on the sidewalk. Lehman immediately wanted to turn the encounter into a warrantless search and seizure by making several requests and asking Wayne “Where are you going?” and “Do you have any weapons on you?” We know now that Wayne had a pair of scissors in his back pocket because of the Medical Examiner Report. Wayne responded “What is a weapon?”

    At this point, one could only surmise that he wanted to know, from the officer, if a pair of scissors was considered a weapon; Regardless, we will never find out because immediately what started out as consensual was escalated to detainment and ultimately a murder. Wayne refused to be detained and asked the Officer “What did I do to you?” and “What do you want?” Over and over – He asked the question. Lehman never said Wayne was under arrest, he never accused him of a crime yet he continued to demand Wayne to put his hands on the vehicle. Wayne Jones refused and was subsequently tazed twice as backup officers arrived on the scene.

    A chase ensued and Wayne ran onto the public library steps where the Officers chased him. Again Wayne exclaimed “What did I do to you?” What did I do to you?” With no answer, Wayne was punched in the side of the head, put into an illegal choke hold and thrown on the ground where a total of (5) officers placed Wayne on his stomach – beat him over and over, tazed him another two times while calling him a motherfucker and kicking him. Instead of cuffing Wayne, they continued to beat him and – someone yelled that he saw a knife[sic]; yet in the Police reports, some officers said that they didn’t see a knife and others couldnt agree on what size the knife was. Furthermore – miraculously, multiple knives turned up on the scene after the fact and to date no knife has been physically produced.

    At a point after the officers stated that they saw a knife – each officer, in unison, slowly backed away from Wayne, who lay motionless on his stomach after being horrifically brutalized. As an Officer Neely backed away, he instantaneously fired his weapon into the head of Wayne Jones and the other (4) officers followed suit. Totaling twenty-three shots, every bullet went into Wayne Jones body from the (5) officers. The Police Report clearly stated that Wayne was 5’9 and weighed 130lbs yet (5) officers who probably weighed 900-1000lbs could not subdue one 130lb individual without filling him full of holes equivalent to Swiss Cheese.

    In the reports – each officer made a scripted statement that included “knife”, “fear”, and “noncompliance” summarizing that they felt in fear of their lives; however – the video tells a much different story. In fact, in Officer Staub’s video at around 23:30 he specifically stated that “He wouldn’t $#@!ing do nothing so we all shot him” Additionally, Staub was the officer that was purportedly stabbed by the “phantom-throwdown” knife that multiplied into two knives underneath Wayne’s body after he was killed. Four different officers made materially false statements about the existence, location and the fact that they altered the crime scene and moved the knives[sic] which were never found to have any fingerprints, dna or other forensic evidence that would conclude that Wayne, in fact, possessed a knife or stabbed an officer. No knife was ever produced.
    Several observations after watching all of the videos, make one wonder if they are even authentic, nevermind that the West Virginia State Police has already gone on the record and stated, after it was obvious that much of the audio had been doctored, deleted or otherwise maligned – that they had, in fact, made alterations to the video/audio which was released nearly (6) months after the murder. None of the timestamps on any of the dashcams are synched and most notably, non of the cruisers are ever facing a position which would shed any light on the actual incident despite it was 11:30pm and proper training and protocol is to position the vehicle’s headlights on the incident for maximum lighting.


    The Martinsburg District Attorney had a Special Grand Jury convened to hear the evidence against these (5) officers and just like Michael Brown, the Special Grand Jury refused to indict. The family of Wayne Jones, immediately retained counsel and sued the City of Martinsburg and its police officers who were involved in this crime. Please help us fight for your Rights and mine!
    Ironically – as a result of some legal incompetence; the attorney representing the Estate of Wayne Jones , at the very least, constructively threw them under the bus by failing to file documents, integral to the case, in a timely fashion(“1” day late). In and of itself, these types of situations are not fatal and the Federal Courts won’t throw out such a high profile and emotionally charged case based on a minor technicality, but in this case – the US District Court Judge Gina H Groh made the decision to grant a summary judgment to the City and the police officers and dismiss the Estate’s lawsuit with prejudice, in effect, thoroughly abusing her discretion and failing to allow the lawsuit to move forward.
    It appeared that it was over for the family – their brother Wayne was dead, their rights had been disenfranchised in the Federal Court System, and it appeared like there would be no day in court where a full and fair hearing would be had on the merits of this case of Excessive Force by death and Wrongful Death.
    After the Judge ruled against the Estate, attorney Sherman Lambert, withdrew himself from the case and for nearly three weeks, the Estate searched for the right legal counsel to represent them. With little to no success, the Estate created a package to send out to prospective attorneys. For nearly another week, they made calls and pitched Wayne Jones and the wide ramifications that this case has on our country, blacks, elderly, and the homeless. In the wake of the Ferguson outcry by Citizens, Wayne Jones, though murdered on March 13, 2013, his blood is still crying out for Justice. Please support Wayne’s Cause!
    After speaking to Bobby Jones(Estate Administrator), its crystal clear that neither of these men are primarily after money – and the Jones family desires that these (5) men be held accountable for the death of their brother and the City of Martinsburg to apologize, and immediately start retraining its Police Department so that this never “ever” happens again.
    As an activist, investigative journalist and a reasonable man, please agree and partner with me and the Estate of Wayne Jones. Refuse to allow Wayne A. Jones’ horrendous last ten minutes of his life and his senseless death become nothing more than a Constitutional Anomaly and a legal afterthought.
    As a nation, we can not run from this oppression. We must stand up to these policies and resist this oppression – peacefully and in the spirit of due process and Constitutional redress. In the wake of Michael Brown, obviously, a POLICE STATE pattern is prevalent and free citizens are being disallowed to choose to ‘walk away’ from encounters and are being forcefully detained to the point of death, if they refuse to succumb to unconstitutional demands on their freedom and liberty to travel and be free from warrantless searches and seizures.
    As citizens, we have inalienable rights to travel and walk freely, unfettered or harassed. Ill trained and unqualified officers must be the focus of these political stands. Cities must be responsible and held accountable for their officers, which in this case, at minimum rise to the level of a public nuisance in a community based policing program. Face it – at best, Wayne was guilty of an administrative violation, if at all. He had a good reason for not walking on the sidewalk – Officer Lehman refused to allow him to articulate it.
    As it stands today – The Estate of Wayne Jones has retained legal counsel last week for the purpose of its Appeal to the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals. This case will be argued in mid January and the Fourth Circuit will rule – some time afterward. We are confident that that Wayne’s case will be reversed based on clear rules in the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure and controlling case precedent.
    Presently, the Estate is asking for help with the costs to litigate this case and bring justice to Wayne Jones and his family. Costs for experts, filing, depositions and travel are substantial, therefore a Crowdfunding campaign has been created to move this honorable cause forward. Help Prepare for this Legal Battle!
    All donations go directly into the Fiduciary Account for the Legal Fund of the Estate of Wayne Jones managed by The Virginia Law Group, Rocco Deleonardis, 11480 Sunset Hills Blvd. Reston Virginia 20190-5265 (703)338-2434 – roccodeleonardis@yahoo.com


    By: Rand Cadmus
    (540)395-3539
    randcadmus@yahoo.com
    Please consider sharing this article with your media contacts as this case continues
    the pressure must continue as well.



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  3. #2
    This is the extent of the Associated Press / MSM coverage:


    Police shot Virginia man 23 times, autopsy shows

    Published April 25, 2014Associated Press


    Facebook144 Twitter112 Email Print

    MARTINSBURG, W.Va. – An autopsy report says Martinsburg police officers shot a Virginia man 23 times during an altercation in 2013.
    The report says Wayne Arnold Jones died from multiple gunshot wounds.
    The 50-year-old Stephens City, Va., man's brothers are suing the city over the shooting on behalf of his estate. The wrongful death lawsuit seeks $200 million in damages.
    Media outlets report that the family's lawyer, Sherman L. Lambert Sr., filed a copy of the autopsy report in federal court in Martinsburg on Tuesday. Lambert also filed an amended lawsuit that adds the officers as defendants.


    Police have said Jones drew a knife and stabbed one officer during a scuffle.


    Last week, a judge ordered the city to provide the autopsy report and a state police report to the plaintiffs.
    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/04/25...autopsy-shows/

    Lawsuit says police altered video in West Virginia shooting

    By Jeffrey B. Roth
    Thu Aug 28, 2014 7:40pm EDT

    (Reuters) - Police in a West Virginia city altered video evidence in the death of a mentally ill black man who was shot and killed last year during a confrontation with officers, a lawyer for the victim's family said on Thursday.
    Sherman L. Lambert Sr., an attorney representing the estate of Wayne A. Jones, filed a legal motion on Wednesday in a $200 million lawsuit against five Martinsburg police officers. The lawsuit accuses the officers of using excessive force in the March 2013 shooting.
    The officers were cleared of wrongdoing in a report from West Virginia State Police investigators in April. Last October, a grand jury found their actions to be justified.
    “We question the authenticity of the DVD police provided,” Lambert said. “One of the main issues in the case was whether police used excessive force.”
    The lawsuit, filed on behalf of family members in June 2013, will go to trial on Oct. 28 in the U.S. District Court of Northern Virginia.
    Across the country, video evidence is playing an increasingly important role in such cases.
    Two deaths this year - the shooting on Aug. 9 of a black teenager by an officer in Ferguson, Missouri, and the July 17 death of a New York man after police used a choke hold on him - gained national notoriety in part because they were recorded on mobile phones.
    Jones, a 50-year-old who took schizophrenia medication, was shot by officers 23 times, according to the autopsy report.
    The motion filed by Lambert claims there were four videos of the shooting, taken from dashboard cameras of police cruisers on the scene, and none shows what occurred before Jones was shot. Only the shooting itself appears on the recording, said Lambert.
    According to police, the officers struck Jones twice with stun guns after he became angry and refused to follow orders. The shocks had “little” effect on Jones, who pulled a knife and stabbed one of the officers, inflicting a minor wound.
    Jones was ordered to drop the knife while he still was on the ground. When he refused and tried to get up, the

    officers fired multiple rounds at him “to neutralize the threat,”


    police said.

    But there is no video evidence of the stabbing and other events leading up to the shooting. Lambert said it defied logic that police would start recording at the end of the incident, though the motion filed on Wednesday provided no direct evidence of altering.
    Boyd L. Warner, who represents the five officers, filed a motion earlier this month to have the case dismissed. It argued that the lawsuit raised no fresh issues that the state investigation and the grand jury had failed to resolve.
    Warner was unavailable on Thursday for further comment.
    (Reporting by Jeffrey B. Roth in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania; Editing by Grant McCool)

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...0GS2TV20140828
    U.S. court dismisses $200 million suit in West Virginia fatal police shooting

    By Jeffrey Roth October 16, 2014 8:09 PM

    (Reuters) - A U.S. federal court has dismissed a $200 million civil lawsuit filed by the family of a man being treated for schizophrenia who was shot 23 times by police in West Virginia, drawing criticism from the local chapter of a national civil rights group.

    U.S. District Court Judge Gina Groh of the Northern District of West Virginia ruled that the use of deadly force by five officers in the city of Martinsburg was

    reasonable and justified

    in the March 14, 2013, shooting death of Wayne Arnold Jones, a 50-year-old black man.

    Police said Jones, a visitor from Stephens City, Virginia, who was taking medication for schizophrenia, was first struck with stun guns after he became angry and refused to follow orders. He pulled a knife and stabbed one of the officers, causing a minor wound, police said, leading to the shooting.
    In dismissing the case with prejudice, "the court finds that a reasonable officer ... would have concluded that Jones posed an immediate threat of serious physical harm to all of the officers,” Groh wrote in the opinion, released late Wednesday.
    On Thursday, Harold Stewart, secretary of the Jefferson County chapter of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, compared the case to the Aug. 9 shooting of an unarmed black teenager by a Ferguson, Missouri, officer. The incident has sparked outrage in the St. Louis area and weeks of protests against police violence.
    The decision, coupled with the Ferguson case, “seems to be saying outright that if an African-American is the victim of police brutality, 'don't worry about it, it's a black man or black woman,'” Stewart said.
    Sherman L. Lambert Sr., a lawyer who represented the Jones family, said they had earlier refused to settle their case against the five officers because they wanted the public “to know the truth about this matter."
    “We do not accept as a given that the police, who are charged to 'protect and serve' our community, can roam our streets and kill citizens without consequence,” said Lambert, who said he has withdrawn as the family's attorney.
    Neither the officers or their attorney, Boyd L. Warner, was available for comment on Thursday.
    http://news.yahoo.com/u-court-dismis...000913693.html



    Feel free to look for another MSM mention... you won't find any.
    Last edited by presence; 11-27-2014 at 05:54 PM.

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  4. #3
    I think Police are out of control.

    They need more money.

  5. #4
    Other reports state that the victim was mentally ill, which might explain some strange behavior. Apparently diagnosis and treatment by police in the street is standard procedure. Streamlined Obamacare, with death panels and euthanasia...
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
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    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  6. #5
    I don't sympathize with brown just because he committed a crime and was walking on the middle of the street like an idiot, thus attracting attention.

    This guy will probably not get a peep or a wimper.

  7. #6
    • Officer states they shot him because “he was just $#@!’in laying there and wouldn’t do nothin”.
    Wow

  8. #7
    Officer states they shot him because “he was just $#@!’in laying there and wouldn’t do nothin”.

    Officer states they shot him because “he was just $#@!’in laying there and wouldn’t do nothin”.

    Officer states they shot him because “he was just $#@!’in laying there and wouldn’t do nothin”.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by alucard13mm View Post
    I don't sympathize with brown just because he committed a crime and was walking on the middle of the street like an idiot, thus attracting attention.

    This guy will probably not get a peep or a wimper.
    So- no Rule if Law for you, eh?
    There is no spoon.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by alucard13mm View Post
    I don't sympathize with brown just because he committed a crime and was walking on the middle of the street like an idiot, thus attracting attention.

    This guy will probably not get a peep or a wimper.




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    I'm supposed to hate Eric Frein.
    "IF GOD DIDN'T WANT TO HELP AMERICA, THEN WE WOULD HAVE Hillary Clinton"!!
    "let them search you,touch you,violate your Rights,just don't be a dick!"~ cdc482
    "For Wales. Why Richard, it profits a man nothing to give his soul for the whole world. But for Wales?"
    All my life I've been at the mercy of men just following orders... Never again!~Erik Lehnsherr
    There's nothing wrong with stopping people randomly, especially near bars, restaurants etc.~Velho

  12. #10
    This case is just so bizarre in every way. How come this isn't bigger news? No public outcry? No paid vacations? They just kind of dismissed the whole thing with a half-assed cover-up because they don't really need to cover it up anymore because they're completely immune to consequences?

    I mean, this is bad even for RPF standards. We've seen a lot of dumb stories, but this one is as bad as the worst of them, and add to that the fact that they don't even feel the need to get their story straight... what in the hell is going on? I am beside myself if I wasn't already.

    In what world can a police officer shoot someone and just say it was because they were just lying there? They didn't even try to make an excuse like they usually do.
    Last edited by PaulConventionWV; 11-27-2014 at 06:07 PM.
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  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by PaulConventionWV View Post
    This case is just so bizarre in every way. How come this isn't bigger news? No public outcry? No paid vacations? They just kind of dismissed the whole thing with a half-assed cover-up because they don't really need to cover it up anymore because they're completely immune to consequences?

    I mean, this is bad even for RPF standards. We've seen a lot of dumb stories, but this one is as bad as the worst of them, and add to that the fact that they don't even feel the need to get their story straight... what in the hell is going on? I am beside myself if I wasn't already.
    Has this one even been in the WV media in your part of the state?
    I have an autographed copy of Revolution: A Manifesto for sale. Mint condition, inquire within. (I don't sign in often, so please allow plenty of time for a response)

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Officer states they shot him because “he was just $#@!’in laying there and wouldn’t do nothin”.

    Officer states they shot him because “he was just $#@!’in laying there and wouldn’t do nothin”.

    Officer states they shot him because “he was just $#@!’in laying there and wouldn’t do nothin”.
    And did he obey your psychotic asses after you put twenty-freaking-three holes in him?

    Or did he just continue to lie there--and leak on your shoes?

    $#@!ing $#@!.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  15. #13
    KILL. LIE. COVERUP. REPEAT.
    KILL. LIE. COVERUP. REPEAT.
    KILL. LIE. COVERUP. REPEAT.
    KILL. LIE. COVERUP. REPEAT.
    KILL. LIE. COVERUP. REPEAT.
    KILL. LIE. COVERUP. REPEAT.
    KILL. LIE. COVERUP. REPEAT.
    "IF GOD DIDN'T WANT TO HELP AMERICA, THEN WE WOULD HAVE Hillary Clinton"!!
    "let them search you,touch you,violate your Rights,just don't be a dick!"~ cdc482
    "For Wales. Why Richard, it profits a man nothing to give his soul for the whole world. But for Wales?"
    All my life I've been at the mercy of men just following orders... Never again!~Erik Lehnsherr
    There's nothing wrong with stopping people randomly, especially near bars, restaurants etc.~Velho

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by PaulConventionWV View Post
    This case is just so bizarre in every way. How come this isn't bigger news? No public outcry? No paid vacations? They just kind of dismissed the whole thing with a half-assed cover-up because they don't really need to cover it up anymore because they're completely immune to consequences?

    I mean, this is bad even for RPF standards. We've seen a lot of dumb stories, but this one is as bad as the worst of them, and add to that the fact that they don't even feel the need to get their story straight... what in the hell is going on? I am beside myself if I wasn't already.

    In what world can a police officer shoot someone and just say it was because they were just lying there? They didn't even try to make an excuse like they usually do.
    I can sympathize for this victim because he didn't really do anything wrong at all.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by alucard13mm View Post
    I can sympathize for this victim because he didn't really do anything wrong at all.
    But you have no sympathy for someone who received a summary execution for jaywalking...
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    But you have no sympathy for someone who received a summary execution for jaywalking...
    More like he committed a crime 5-10 minutes ago.. and then jaywalked. Brown didn't rob to feed himself because he was hungry or rob to buy medicine for his little baby.. he robbed cigarillos using his large physical stature to do some manhandling. I've been robbed a few times and I do wish ill upon those individuals that robbed me. When you are being robbed, you don't know if you gonna die or get hurt bad.

    If I committed a crime, you can bet I will try to be non-conspicious so I don't attract cops. If I was transporting 20-30 pounds of weed or cocaine in my car.. I probably wont run stop signs or make an illegal u-turn that would draw a cop's attention in the first place.

    A thug versus psychotic cop. Nope. No symphathy. If it was a law abiding citizen that committed no crimes in the last 10 minutes and got blasted away for jaywalking.. then yes. I have sympathy.

    A lot of you guys harbor way too much hate for what looks to be all cops... its kinda funny how those protestors are like.. $#@! THE POLICE... then some of the protesters get run over by a car.. who you think the protesters are gonna call? Ghost busters? No, 911. Some cops and ambulance will show up. Obviously the ambulance won't go there by themselves, especially into an antsy crowd. They will have a police escort.

    My house got burglarize? Oh, let me call the cops so there is a record and a report so I can submit the information to insurance. Oh, a hooker's body is on my property? Let me call the cops. Don't bull$#@! me and tell me you won't call the cops under many circumstances that warrants it.

    Do I like cops? No. I don't. I don't try to instigate or give them an excuse to blast me away. But you have to admit that you will need cops sometimes.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by alucard13mm View Post
    I've been robbed a few times and I do wish ill upon those individuals that robbed me.
    Well, that's natural. And if you're not a Christian, I guess you can get away with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by alucard13mm View Post
    If I was transporting 20-30 pounds of weed or cocaine in my car...
    If you could afford thirty pounds of cocaine, you could afford to hire an armored car as a taxi. That would be pretty good camouflage.

    Quote Originally Posted by alucard13mm View Post
    A thug versus psychotic cop. Nope. No symphathy. If it was a law abiding citizen that committed no crimes in the last 10 minutes and got blasted away for jaywalking.. then yes. I have sympathy.
    I understand that you're comparing that with the situation in this thread's OP. And this is a good example to use if you're frustrated with someone when talking about Ferguson. But the Constitutional guarantees of due process which are supposed to allow us to have police that don't do the summary execution thing, are important all the time.

    As for hating the cops, we remember when police departments were more likely to hire guys who could actually read and understand the Constitution, and then make them do it. Most of us (the anarchists here are vocal, but a minority nonetheless) want to get the federal government out of the business of micromismanaging local police so we can once again have say in how they're run.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Well, that's natural. And if you're not a Christian, I guess you can get away with it.



    If you could afford thirty pounds of cocaine, you could afford to hire an armored car as a taxi. That would be pretty good camouflage.



    I understand that you're comparing that with the situation in this thread's OP. And this is a good example to use if you're frustrated with someone when talking about Ferguson. But the Constitutional guarantees of due process which are supposed to allow us to have police that don't do the summary execution thing, are important all the time.

    As for hating the cops, we remember when police departments were more likely to hire guys who could actually read and understand the Constitution, and then make them do it. Most of us (the anarchists here are vocal, but a minority nonetheless) want to get the federal government out of the business of micromismanaging local police so we can once again have say in how they're run.
    "anarchists" generally agree with you on this. Mind you, we'd eventually like to go the extra step of getting "government" out of the issues entirely and leave these issues up to privately hired police, but we definitely agree with you that decentralization is a step in the right direction.

    Speaking only for me, I don't see myself as being at odds with minarchists and constitutionalists as long as they don't see themselves as being at odds with me. Heck, I'd even add honest, libertarian-leaning liberals and anti-authoritarian conservatives (paleocons and similar) to that list most of the time.

    My ideal is no coercive tax system and no coercive monopoly on the right to use force. I don't care precisely what people come up with so long as the principle of non-aggression and peaceful, voluntary interaction are respected. I don't have a blueprint that I insist on for a voluntary society.

    I do not see how minarchism, constitutionalism, or any variant of liberal or conservative ideology are actually logically consistent. Thus, I don't accept them. That said, I am not all-or-nothing, in the sense that I am willing to work with those who have slightly different or slightly less consistent goals than I do, so long as they are going for a SIMILAR goal to me.
    This post represents only the opinions of Christian Liberty and not the rest of the forum. Use discretion when reading

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by alucard13mm View Post
    My house got burglarize? Oh, let me call the cops so there is a record and a report so I can submit the information to insurance. Oh, a hooker's body is on my property? Let me call the cops. Don't bull$#@! me and tell me you won't call the cops under many circumstances that warrants it.

    Do I like cops? No. I don't. I don't try to instigate or give them an excuse to blast me away. But you have to admit that you will need cops sometimes.
    In this context, the cops ensure they are needed by making the consequences worse for you if their services aren't rendered. Insurance may not pay without proof of forced entry and a police report. I can hate doctors because they have a state granted monopoly on their trade, it doesn't mean I won't need them. The fact that they run their businesses by giving their "customers" no other choice is why they are detested.

    Anyway, I don't know who was bullshitting you, but I would at least think twice about calling the cops.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Well, that's natural. And if you're not a Christian, I guess you can get away with it.



    If you could afford thirty pounds of cocaine, you could afford to hire an armored car as a taxi. That would be pretty good camouflage.



    I understand that you're comparing that with the situation in this thread's OP. And this is a good example to use if you're frustrated with someone when talking about Ferguson. But the Constitutional guarantees of due process which are supposed to allow us to have police that don't do the summary execution thing, are important all the time.

    As for hating the cops, we remember when police departments were more likely to hire guys who could actually read and understand the Constitution, and then make them do it. Most of us (the anarchists here are vocal, but a minority nonetheless) want to get the federal government out of the business of micromismanaging local police so we can once again have say in how they're run.
    I am just frustrated that there are a lot of cases that is probably more worthwhile where a guy/girl was just killed by police for almost no apparent reason. The victims committed no crime at the time of execution and/or had no APB out for them.. and they get no attention at all. They might get a minor mention on local news.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by alucard13mm View Post
    I am just frustrated that there are a lot of cases that is probably more worthwhile where a guy/girl was just killed by police for almost no apparent reason. The victims committed no crime at the time of execution and/or had no APB out for them.. and they get no attention at all. They might get a minor mention on local news.
    That's intentional, you know.

    The key element to me regarding Brown is not whether he's a thief. Thievery in and of itself would justify the police stop, but not the shooting. That said, the fact that the crime was theft does mean that Wilson was not the INITIAL aggressor, and thus did have the right to defend himself against any attempts at harming him. (By contrast, a cop who enforces a law against a victimless "crime" is the aggressor and thus does NOT have any right to defend himself against "attack", however logistically or even morally inadvisible such an attack might be.)

    My only question is, did Brown threaten Wilson's life? If he did in fact reach for the gun, I'd say the answer is yes.

    And if that's the case, going against my political gut reactions though it may, I can't say Wilson was unjustified. I don't see how I can. Part of me wants to, just because I dislike police so much, but I still can't.

    Even if Wilson was justified, so many others are not.
    This post represents only the opinions of Christian Liberty and not the rest of the forum. Use discretion when reading

  25. #22
    So I guess Obama didn't feel this could have been his family member?


    No Al Sharpton?

    no protests for Jones?

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFanatic View Post
    My only question is, did Brown threaten Wilson's life? If he did in fact reach for the gun, I'd say the answer is yes.

    And if that's the case, going against my political gut reactions though it may, I can't say Wilson was unjustified. I don't see how I can. Part of me wants to, just because I dislike police so much, but I still can't.

    Even if Wilson was justified, so many others are not.
    Wilson’s own testimony provides that he instantly and senselessly escalated the situation by threatening to shoot Brown if he did not back away from him—clearly an unlawful order to give, clearly nonsensical in logic.

    Everything else aside, Wilson made a direct threat to a seemingly unarmed man that he was initiating solo contact with; and in return Brown, upon realizing that Wilson was unholstering his firearm to likely carry out that terroristic threat that he had just made to him (possibly in consequence of Brown expectedly becoming agitated and retorting with juvenile name calling and challenges to carry out that very threat), had reacted by attempting to disarm Wilson of that very means to instantly kill him and in the process likely struck Wilson once or twice on the face or body. A reasonable reaction to be expected from anybody possessing a will to live.
    The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding one’s self in the ranks of the insane.” — Marcus Aurelius

    They’re not buying it. CNN, you dumb bastards!” — President Trump 2020

    Consilio et Animis de Oppresso Liber

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by alucard13mm View Post
    I don't sympathize with brown just because he committed a crime and was walking on the middle of the street like an idiot, thus attracting attention.

    This guy will probably not get a peep or a wimper.
    And thus we get Mike Brown coverage 24/7. The media wants people to focus on the unsympathetic cases. No riots for Miriam Carey. No riots for they guy that was murdered by police in Walmart for checking out a Walmart airsoft gun. No riots for the 12 year old shot by cops on the playground. No riots for Kelly Thomas. No riots for Baby Bou.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFanatic View Post
    That's intentional, you know.

    The key element to me regarding Brown is not whether he's a thief. Thievery in and of itself would justify the police stop, but not the shooting. That said, the fact that the crime was theft does mean that Wilson was not the INITIAL aggressor, and thus did have the right to defend himself against any attempts at harming him. (By contrast, a cop who enforces a law against a victimless "crime" is the aggressor and thus does NOT have any right to defend himself against "attack", however logistically or even morally inadvisible such an attack might be.)

    My only question is, did Brown threaten Wilson's life? If he did in fact reach for the gun, I'd say the answer is yes.

    And if that's the case, going against my political gut reactions though it may, I can't say Wilson was unjustified. I don't see how I can. Part of me wants to, just because I dislike police so much, but I still can't.

    Even if Wilson was justified, so many others are not.
    Let's see. Say if you were minding your own business, a cop started beating you for no reason, said "I'm going to shoot you", then pulled out his gun. Would you reach for the gun or would you passively stand their waiting to get shot? Now I'm not saying that is precisely what happened in the Mike Brown shooting. But that's one version of it. So the question of "Did Mike Brown reach for the gun" doesn't settle it. Now Wilson's story is that Brown attacked him, he (Wilson) pulled out his gun, then Brown reached for the gun. In no account did Brown reach for a holstered gun. Wilson managed to shoot Brown in the hand. Brown ran away. At that point was Wilson's life in danger? No. He could have called for backup and followed Brown from a distance. Wilson stated that when he was in the car he couldn't get to his police flashlight. But why didn't he consider that option once Brown had run away? Something else to consider. Wilson defenders (and I'm not calling you one) are all over the fact that the autopsy showed Brown was not shot in the back. But that doesn't mean that Wilson never shot at Brown's back.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by alucard13mm View Post
    Do I like cops? No. I don't. I don't try to instigate or give them an excuse to blast me away. But you have to admit that you will need cops sometimes.
    I've been around for over half a century.

    I have, in all that time, never called a cop for anything.

    The only interaction that I have had were instigated at someone else's request, usually just to take notes after the fact of an incident or were uninvited.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Let's see. Say if you were minding your own business, a cop started beating you for no reason, said "I'm going to shoot you", then pulled out his gun. Would you reach for the gun or would you passively stand their waiting to get shot? Now I'm not saying that is precisely what happened in the Mike Brown shooting. But that's one version of it. So the question of "Did Mike Brown reach for the gun" doesn't settle it. Now Wilson's story is that Brown attacked him, he (Wilson) pulled out his gun, then Brown reached for the gun. In no account did Brown reach for a holstered gun. Wilson managed to shoot Brown in the hand. Brown ran away. At that point was Wilson's life in danger? No. He could have called for backup and followed Brown from a distance. Wilson stated that when he was in the car he couldn't get to his police flashlight. But why didn't he consider that option once Brown had run away? Something else to consider. Wilson defenders (and I'm not calling you one) are all over the fact that the autopsy showed Brown was not shot in the back. But that doesn't mean that Wilson never shot at Brown's back.
    Good point.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    I've been around for over half a century.
    I have, in all that time, never called a cop for anything.
    I called them once, when I awoke to find 6 fire extinguishers from the local elementary school discharged and on the ground on the sidewalk in front of my house. called them to have them dispose of them more than anything else. didn't want to put those in my recycle or trashcans, that's for sure.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by alucard13mm View Post
    I am just frustrated that there are a lot of cases that is probably more worthwhile where a guy/girl was just killed by police for almost no apparent reason. The victims committed no crime at the time of execution and/or had no APB out for them.. and they get no attention at all. They might get a minor mention on local news.
    The mainstream media won't do it right. They're being paid--well paid--to redefine the debate and conceal the real problems.

    If you want Wayne A. Jones to get attention, you're going to have to publicize him yourself.

    Why do you think we come here, man? We're here to get the truth--to figure out what the truth is--and to spread it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    And thus we get Mike Brown coverage 24/7. The media wants people to focus on the unsympathetic cases. No riots for Miriam Carey. No riots for they guy that was murdered by police in Walmart for checking out a Walmart airsoft gun. No riots for the 12 year old shot by cops on the playground. No riots for Kelly Thomas. No riots for Baby Bou.
    I agree, it's being hyped for maximum divisiveness.

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