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Thread: I Stopped Wasting My Time on Politics -- (You should, too)

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    You posted this in defense of a call to stop wasting time on politics?

    That's like telling a mechanic with a car that won't shift to stop wasting time diagnosing the transmission, or a doctor facing an appendicitis case to stop wasting his time on the patient's abdomen.

    You and hb34 want us to get nowhere. Noted. I think we all already figured that out.
    Can't speak for Ronin, but my goal is to get people more interested in real freedom than in violence and politics (which go hand in hand most of the time). To me, that is somewhere-the ideal somewhere. You are free to disagree.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12



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  3. #32
    Electoral politics has, over more than 2 centuries, proven to be a total failure as a means to even maintain a level of liberty already achieved, let alone to expand liberty even farther.

    But hey, THIS election cycle will be different, I'm sure. Right?
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    Electoral politics has, over more than 2 centuries, proven to be a total failure as a means to even maintain a level of liberty already achieved, let alone to expand liberty even farther.

    But hey, THIS election cycle will be different, I'm sure. Right?
    That's the mantra.

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    Have you really had all that much trouble in your life with numerous encounters of repeated episodes of "some jackbooted government goons threatening to bash in your skull"? If so, then you'd better just keep on voting because that will surely protect and save you.
    Yeah, yeah... you don't like voting. I get it.

    But so far, I haven't seen anyone who holds your position offer a genuine, working alternative. Saying, "I want to wake people up!" isn't going to cut it. It's like bringing a butter knife to a gun fight. Sitting around a circle beating drums - or just beating off - ain't gonna cut it either.

    Wishes, in other words, are worth their weight in gold - and I mean *exactly* their weight.

    Moonbeams and fairy dust and unicorn tails are all well and good. But when it comes to pushing forward an agenda of freedom, they're worse than useless.

    So what's the solution? What's your idea? Because outside of turning things around through the use of ballots, I can think of only one other means of achieving freedom which has been historically proven beyond any doubt to be effective.

    And I'm not quite ready to recommend that route yet. Not quite. Are you? And if not, what is your idea of a real and workable solution?

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by KCIndy View Post
    Yeah, yeah... you don't like voting. I get it.

    But so far, I haven't seen anyone who holds your position offer a genuine, working alternative. Saying, "I want to wake people up!" isn't going to cut it. It's like bringing a butter knife to a gun fight. Sitting around a circle beating drums - or just beating off - ain't gonna cut it either.

    Wishes, in other words, are worth their weight in gold - and I mean *exactly* their weight.

    Moonbeams and fairy dust and unicorn tails are all well and good. But when it comes to pushing forward an agenda of freedom, they're worse than useless.

    So what's the solution? What's your idea? Because outside of turning things around through the use of ballots, I can think of only one other means of achieving freedom which has been historically proven beyond any doubt to be effective.

    And I'm not quite ready to recommend that route yet. Not quite. Are you? And if not, what is your idea of a real and workable solution?
    So, I guess it's safe to assume the answer to that threatened skull crushing question is really, "NO NEVER".

    How has that voting "genuine working alternative" been working out for you? Do you have much (enough) to show for it?

    What election has been decided by your actions? (Unless you're one of the official vote counters.)


    Statement of Purpose: Voluntaryists are advocates of non-political, non-violent strategies to achieve a free society. We reject electoral politics, in theory and in practice, as incompatible with libertarian principles. Governments must cloak their actions in an aura of moral legitimacy in order to sustain their power, and political methods invariably strengthen that legitimacy. Voluntaryists seek instead to delegitimize the State through education, and we advocate withdrawal of the cooperation and tacit consent on which State power ultimately depends.
    http://voluntaryist.com/

    "It's really tough to fight an enemy that has outposts in your head."

    http://www.google.com/custom?cof=L%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.lewrockwell.com%2F wp-content%2Fthemes%2Flrc%2Fimages%2Fgoogle-search-header.png%3BLH%3A50%3B&domains=www.lewrockwell.co m&q=non+voting&btnG=Search

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    FWIW, for me, "liberty" has always implied getting permission from some authority (so called). That's why I much prefer "freedom", a state of nature.
    They're the same word -- just two different etymologies. Like manual and handbook.

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    How has that voting "genuine working alternative" been working out for you? Do you have much (enough) to show for it?
    One could ask you the same. At least decent representation is something people think they want, whether they actually want decent representation or merely charismatic and entertaining. A power vacuum, however, is a sleeping dog I've never seen any group of humans let lie.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only want the freedoms that will undermine the nation and lead to the destruction of liberty.

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener View Post
    They're the same word -- just two different etymologies. Like manual and handbook.
    liberty (n.) late 14c., "free choice, freedom to do as one chooses," from Old French liberté "freedom, liberty, free will" (14c.), from Latin libertatem (nominative libertas) "freedom, condition of a free man; absence of restraint; permission," from liber "free" (see liberal)
    The spirit of liberty is the spirit which is not too sure it is right. [Learned Hand, 1944]


    freedom
    (n.) Look up freedom at Dictionary.com Old English freodom "freedom, state of free will; charter, emancipation, deliverance;" see free (adj.) + -dom. Freedom-rider recorded 1961, in reference to civil rights activists in U.S. trying to integrate bus lines.

    It has been said by some physicians, that life is a forced state. The same may be said of freedom. It requires efforts, it presupposes mental and moral qualities of a high order to be generally diffused in the society where it exists. [John C. Calhoun, speech, U.S. House of Representatives, Jan. 31, 1816]
    //
    http://www.etymonline.com/index.php

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    One could ask you the same. At least decent representation is something people think they want, whether they actually want decent representation or merely charismatic and entertaining. A power vacuum, however, is a sleeping dog I've never seen any group of humans let lie.
    I SWAG the worse it gets, the sooner it ends.

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    Electoral politics has, over more than 2 centuries, proven to be a total failure as a means to even maintain a level of liberty already achieved, let alone to expand liberty even farther.

    But hey, THIS election cycle will be different, I'm sure. Right?
    Qft
    “One may come to the aid of another being unlawfully arrested, just as he may where one is being assaulted, molested, raped or kidnapped. Thus it is not an offense to liberate one from the unlawful custody of an officer, even though he may have submitted to such custody, without resistance.” (Adams v. State, 121 Ga. 16, 48 S.E. 910).



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    Thank you for doing the research to confirm my correctitude. Though, you could have just oh-so-helpfully and cleverly linked us all to https://www.google.com/webhp?&ion=1&...edom%20liberty , as is your wont. I'm surprised you didn't. Copy and pasting dictionary definitions is much more labor. I thought you hated typing?

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by KCIndy View Post
    I won't say "Yeah, but," I'm going to state flat-out that I believe that premise to be wrong. In some ways, things HAVE gotten better.

    Ten years ago Ron Paul was the lone voice of reason in the House, and he was commonly dismissed as a loon. Now we have guys like Amash and Massey, and/or other politicians like Walter Jones who have largely turned around their thinking due to the influence of liberty activists. We have scores of liberty candidates winning races at the local and state level, including many folks right here on RPF. The ideas of liberty which would have garnered hoots of derision ten years ago (such as marijuana legalization) are now coming to pass. The basic idea of government being more "hands off" is gaining much wider acceptance.

    So yeah, don't vote. Don't waste time and energy on things like liberty. Let's all refuse to vote. Then the next time some jackbooted government goon is threatening to bash in my skull, I'm safe. All I have to do is shout, "Wait! I'm not part of the system! I didn't vote! I refuse to participate! You can't DO this to me!"

    'cause we all know how well that works.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    Have you really had all that much trouble in your life with numerous encounters of repeated episodes of "some jackbooted government goons threatening to bash in your skull"? If so, then you'd better just keep on voting because that will surely protect and save you.
    Quote Originally Posted by KCIndy View Post
    Yeah, yeah... you don't like voting. I get it.

    But so far, I haven't seen anyone who holds your position offer a genuine, working alternative. Saying, "I want to wake people up!" isn't going to cut it. It's like bringing a butter knife to a gun fight. Sitting around a circle beating drums - or just beating off - ain't gonna cut it either.

    Wishes, in other words, are worth their weight in gold - and I mean *exactly* their weight.

    Moonbeams and fairy dust and unicorn tails are all well and good. But when it comes to pushing forward an agenda of freedom, they're worse than useless.

    So what's the solution? What's your idea? Because outside of turning things around through the use of ballots, I can think of only one other means of achieving freedom which has been historically proven beyond any doubt to be effective.

    And I'm not quite ready to recommend that route yet. Not quite. Are you? And if not, what is your idea of a real and workable solution?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    So, I guess it's safe to assume the answer to that threatened skull crushing question is really, "NO NEVER".

    How has that voting "genuine working alternative" been working out for you? Do you have much (enough) to show for it?

    What election has been decided by your actions? (Unless you're one of the official vote counters.)


    http://voluntaryist.com/

    "It's really tough to fight an enemy that has outposts in your head."

    http://www.google.com/custom?cof=L%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.lewrockwell.com%2F wp-content%2Fthemes%2Flrc%2Fimages%2Fgoogle-search-header.png%3BLH%3A50%3B&domains=www.lewrockwell.co m&q=non+voting&btnG=Search

    Above is our exchange to date.

    You asked me what has been gained through voting. I already answered that. We have more liberty oriented (or "freedom oriented" if you prefer) candidates now than before, on the national level and especially on the local level. Ideas that were considered laughable just ten years ago, like marijuana legalization, are coming to pass. Recently New Hampshire became the only state - let me repeat that - THE ONLY STATE in the nation to prevent police from using cameras which would scan everyone's license plate just because the driver happened to be on the road. THIS HAPPENED ONLY BECAUSE THE POPULATION VOTED FOR REPRESENTATIVES WHO CARED ABOUT FREEDOM.

    I could go on, but I think I've made my point.

    Now, can you answer my question? What is your proposal for a working alternative, and can you give a real life example?

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by KCIndy View Post
    Above is our exchange to date.

    You asked me what has been gained through voting. I already answered that. We have more liberty oriented (or "freedom oriented" if you prefer) candidates now than before, on the national level and especially on the local level. Ideas that were considered laughable just ten years ago, like marijuana legalization, are coming to pass. Recently New Hampshire became the only state - let me repeat that - THE ONLY STATE in the nation to prevent police from using cameras which would scan everyone's license plate just because the driver happened to be on the road. THIS HAPPENED ONLY BECAUSE THE POPULATION VOTED FOR REPRESENTATIVES WHO CARED ABOUT FREEDOM.

    I could go on, but I think I've made my point.

    Now, can you answer my question? What is your proposal for a working alternative, and can you give a real life example?
    Oh boy, let that government roll back to 1950 begin.

    Not my government nor problem to solve or fix. The voters created all of this mess, let them clean up their own crap.
    Last edited by Ronin Truth; 11-27-2014 at 07:59 PM.

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Acala View Post
    Liberty will not come from the top down. Liberty will arise from the people when the culture changes. Change your own life and you will send ripples through the culture. Just little ones. But when enough people propagate enough ripples and they reach critical mass, the culture will change and THEN government will change spontaneously. But not before.

    When the American people stop loving dictators and hating their neighbors, the dictators will flee and freedom will reign among us.
    Ripples can only result from a disturbance. The greater the disturbance, the farther they will travel. I have no idea what this means, I'm just running with your metaphor because I like it.

  18. #45
    In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock.
    Thomas Jefferson

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