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Thread: Russia Delivers a New Shock to Crimean Business: Forced Nationalization

  1. #1

    Russia Delivers a New Shock to Crimean Business: Forced Nationalization

    Article in full here - http://www.businessweek.com/articles...renationalized
    Business in Crimea has taken a beating since the peninsula’s annexation by Russia. Crimea’s tourism industry collapsed, and companies were cut off from vital suppliers and customers in Ukraine. Now comes the latest blow: nationalization.

    From bakeries to shipyards, Crimea’s Kremlin-backed government is moving aggressively to take over businesses that it deems “inefficient,” strategically important, or friendly to the government in Kiev.

    Krymkhleb, the peninsula’s biggest bread and confectionery maker, was nationalized on Nov. 12 by government authorities who accused its owners of laundering money to finance military operations against pro-Russian rebels in eastern Ukraine. A company that supplies flour to Krymkhleb also was taken over.

    Also on Nov. 12, authorities seized a resort complex owned by the holding company of Serhiy Taruta, a Ukrainian oligarch who replaced the former pro-Russian governor of Ukraine’s Donetsk region for several months earlier this year. Crimean authorities said the resort was seized because its management had illegally blocked public access to nearby park lands.

    Another recent target was Zaliv, Crimea’s largest civilian shipbuilder. In late August, men describing themselves as Crimean “self-defense” forces stormed the company’s headquarters in the port of Kerch and demanded that management hand over control to a Moscow-based company. “Currently, representatives of the legitimate government of [Zaliv] are not allowed to perform their functions,” the company said in a statement on its website, adding that its activities have been “completely blocked.” No official reason was given for the seizure, but Russian authorities have said they want to overhaul Crimea’s shipbuilding industry.

    “All enterprises on the peninsula that operate inefficiently, are on the verge of bankruptcy, or have been abandoned by their owners, will be nationalized.” Sergei Tsekov, a senator who represents Crimea in the Russian parliament in Moscow, told the Russian-language news service 15 Minutes on Nov. 13.

    Crimea also has threatened to seize companies that it claims are in debt to Russian banks. One such case involves Crimean solar-power generating stations developed and operated by Activ Solar, an Austrian company. Sergey Aksyonov, Crimea’s recently elected prime minister, contends that Activ Solar owes $300 million to Russian banks. The company disputes that, saying it has no loan exposure to Russian institutions.

    Russia moved swiftly after annexation to nationalize some Ukrainian state-owned enterprises, ranging from pipeline companies to health spas. It also took aim at oligarchs such as Igor Kolomoyskiy, vocally pro-Kiev governor of Ukraine’s Dniepropetrovsk region. Kolomoyskiy’s Privat Bank closed its Crimean branches after the annexation, leaving depositors to seek compensation from Moscow. Besides taking depositors’ money, Crimean prime minister Kolomoyskiy has financed military operations against separatists in eastern Ukraine, Aksyonov told Crimea’s parliament in September, ITAR-Tass reported. “It is our moral right and our moral duty to carry out this nationalization,” he said.

    Recent laws enacted by the parliament have expanded the government’s right to foreclose” on private property, and, according to one of the new laws, to seize assets considered to have “particular social, cultural, or historical value.”

    In some cases, Crimean authorities have said they were seizing businesses at the behest of employees who were being cheated or mistreated by management. “Employees established control of the enterprise on their own,” Aksyonov said after the takeover of Krymkhleb. “We just helped them a little.”

    Such measures are turning Crimea into a “neo-Bolshevik criminal dictatorship,” Russian opposition party Yabloko said in a statement this week on its website. “The action to legitimize robbery must be cancelled, stolen property returned to owners, losses reimbursed.”
    Ah, yes, Putin understands non-intervention and free markets.
    Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just and that his justice cannot sleep forever. Thomas Jefferson



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  3. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Rothbardian Girl View Post
    Article in full here - http://www.businessweek.com/articles...renationalized


    Ah, yes, Putin understands non-intervention and free markets.

    It is not nationalization when the business haven't payed taxes in decades because they had connections with the local government.

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Rothbardian Girl View Post
    Article in full here - http://www.businessweek.com/articles...renationalized


    Ah, yes, Putin understands non-intervention and free markets.
    Said by nobody on this site ever. Also, how is he interventionist in this action? Crimea voted to join Russia and as long as that election stands, Crimea is now part of Russia. Putin with all his flaws is still more pro free market and non interventionist than Bush and Obama combined.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Rothbardian Girl View Post
    Article in full here - http://www.businessweek.com/articles...renationalized


    Ah, yes, Putin understands non-intervention and free markets.
    I am in Ukraine right now....they are celebrating the first anniversary of last year's revolution....on the main street in Kyiv there are pictures of those who died and flowers next to their photos.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Demigod View Post
    It is not nationalization when the business haven't payed taxes in decades because they had connections with the local government.
    By that definition, how many businesses should the US government 'not nationalize?'
    Last edited by TheCount; 11-25-2014 at 06:50 AM.
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  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    By that definition, how many businesses should the US government 'not nationalize?'
    I had a problem understanding your question, at first I thought it was my reading comprehension but after a few more re reads, I think its just the way the question was phrased. The fella you are replying to actually didn't give a definition for nationalization, he just commented on what is not nationalization. Which is not a definition. So "by that definition" should be changed to "by that non definition".......

  8. #7
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    Ah, yes, Putin understands non-intervention and free markets.



    (hint:...decent, intelligent people aren't going to listen to a lecture about 'non-intervention' and 'free markets' from Republicrat monetary ignoramuses, puppets, etc..)
    Last edited by H. E. Panqui; 11-25-2014 at 07:34 AM.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    By that definition, how many businesses should the US government 'not nationalize?'
    I don't know how many businesses in the USA should be confiscated but if a businessman has not payed taxes in years because he had local connections the government has every right to confiscate it.
    Last edited by Demigod; 11-25-2014 at 09:15 AM.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Demigod View Post
    It is not nationalization when the business haven't payed taxes in decades because they had connections with the local government.
    The answer to the problem of businesses colluding with government is not for successive governments to orchestrate violent takeovers of them. How is such an action compatible with a liberty-oriented worldview? I assume, as TheCount alluded in his reply to you, that you'd have no problem with any country's government doing the same... how is that not the antithesis of libertarianism?

    You are right that this isn't quite the USSR, but it's still state seizure of assets and fits every definition of nationalization. Putin is a greedy thug.

    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Said by nobody on this site ever. Also, how is he interventionist in this action? Crimea voted to join Russia and as long as that election stands, Crimea is now part of Russia. Putin with all his flaws is still more pro free market and non interventionist than Bush and Obama combined.
    I've seen plenty of posts on here defending Putin because of his supposed refusal to kiss the asses of Western powers. I guess those people just have really low standards for world leaders, and have fallen for RT's propaganda at the same time. Crimea may have voted to join Russia, but Putin had plenty of help in that regard from Stalin's forced resettlement and extermination of the native Crimean population... but hey, self-determination.

    As for Putin's supposed non-interventionist and pro-free-market credentials, please tell that to the people in the Baltic countries who have had to suffer a never-ending deluge of conspiratorial hogwash from his propaganda outlets. The guy's scum just like everyone else. He doesn't get "cool points" for being a cowboy.
    Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just and that his justice cannot sleep forever. Thomas Jefferson

  12. #10

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Rothbardian Girl View Post
    Article in full here - http://www.businessweek.com/articles...renationalized


    Ah, yes, Putin understands non-intervention and free markets.
    Of course he doesn't. So if he ever runs for president of the United States I'll be sure and vote against him.
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  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Rothbardian Girl View Post
    The answer to the problem of businesses colluding with government is not for successive governments to orchestrate violent takeovers of them. How is such an action compatible with a liberty-oriented worldview? I assume, as TheCount alluded in his reply to you, that you'd have no problem with any country's government doing the same... how is that not the antithesis of libertarianism?
    In your opinion it is not in my opinion it is the first thing that should be done.If I don't pay my taxes no one considers my punishment a violent takeover.Taking everything they have and locking them up for life is the minimum.What they have been doing has long passed simple corruption and has become full blown treason.

    Then all assets should be sold off with citizens having an opportunity to buy shares off at market prices first and then what is left should be auctioned off.
    Last edited by Demigod; 11-25-2014 at 09:22 AM.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Demigod View Post
    In your opinion it is not in my opinion it is the first thing that should be done.If I don't pay my taxes no one considers my punishment a violent takeover.Taking everything they have and locking them up for life is the minimum.What they have been doing has long passed simple corruption and has become full blown treason.
    Wow, I never imagined I'd be reading such things on this forum. What you propose is completely illogical, not merely my opinion. How many of Putin's cronies enjoy special privileges? When will the Russian regime seize their assets and throw them in jail? I'm banking on never, since the same entity you're trusting to adequately deal with corruption also ensures that corruption continues with people that happen to win Putin's affections.
    Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just and that his justice cannot sleep forever. Thomas Jefferson

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Rothbardian Girl View Post
    I've seen plenty of posts on here defending Putin because of his supposed refusal to kiss the asses of Western powers. I guess those people just have really low standards for world leaders, and have fallen for RT's propaganda at the same time. Crimea may have voted to join Russia, but Putin had plenty of help in that regard from Stalin's forced resettlement and extermination of the native Crimean population... but hey, self-determination.

    As for Putin's supposed non-interventionist and pro-free-market credentials, please tell that to the people in the Baltic countries who have had to suffer a never-ending deluge of conspiratorial hogwash from his propaganda outlets. The guy's scum just like everyone else. He doesn't get "cool points" for being a cowboy.
    i have said positive things about Putin in the past and that is not because I was taken in by RT propaganda. I cannot help but cheer when I see him speaking up against the West invasion of Libya and Syria which have essentially killed millions of people and destroyed billions in dollars worth of property. I can't see how even you cannot see this as a good thing worth cheering.

    Also are you blaming Putin for the sins of past USSR leaders? Sucks what happened to native Crimeans but the only people that can vote are the people living in the area right now. And all evidence shows that they picked Russia in overwhelming majorities. The guy is scum but relatively speaking, the guys is more than OK

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by qh4dotcom View Post
    I am in Ukraine right now....they are celebrating the first anniversary of last year's revolution....on the main street in Kyiv there are pictures of those who died and flowers next to their photos.
    Really your in Kiev?


    ....they are celebrating the first anniversary of last year's revolution
    The idiots are celebrating there own new fascists in power to not surprisingly you left out that out.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Rothbardian Girl View Post
    Wow, I never imagined I'd be reading such things on this forum. What you propose is completely illogical, not merely my opinion. How many of Putin's cronies enjoy special privileges? When will the Russian regime seize their assets and throw them in jail? I'm banking on never, since the same entity you're trusting to adequately deal with corruption also ensures that corruption continues with people that happen to win Putin's affections.
    According to some here Russia should be part of the every growing German Empire which is the Euporean Union.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    i have said positive things about Putin in the past and that is not because I was taken in by RT propaganda. I cannot help but cheer when I see him speaking up against the West invasion of Libya and Syria which have essentially killed millions of people and destroyed billions in dollars worth of property. I can't see how even you cannot see this as a good thing worth cheering.

    Also are you blaming Putin for the sins of past USSR leaders? Sucks what happened to native Crimeans but the only people that can vote are the people living in the area right now. And all evidence shows that they picked Russia in overwhelming majorities. The guy is scum but relatively speaking, the guys is more than OK
    I agree with you. But Putin is no scum dont forget this article is from business week so how are they reablie again? and also i had noticed some here defending the Ukrankian Tatar Crimean population.

    Do you guys here even know there history? or you fueled by hatred of Russia because the media told you so to support the Tatars?

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Rothbardian Girl View Post
    Wow, I never imagined I'd be reading such things on this forum. What you propose is completely illogical, not merely my opinion. How many of Putin's cronies enjoy special privileges? When will the Russian regime seize their assets and throw them in jail? I'm banking on never, since the same entity you're trusting to adequately deal with corruption also ensures that corruption continues with people that happen to win Putin's affections.

    What does Putin,Russia and their oligarchs with you claiming that it is an antithesis of liberty for a new government to take over all the corrupt businesses that have used all the previous governments to get rich.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rothbardian Girl View Post
    The answer to the problem of businesses colluding with government is not for successive governments to orchestrate violent takeovers of them. How is such an action compatible with a liberty-oriented worldview? I assume, as TheCount alluded in his reply to you, that you'd have no problem with any country's government doing the same... how is that not the antithesis of libertarianism?
    Here is your post that I replied to,it has nothing to do with the situation in Russia nor does my response.You were addressing in your posts how the people that have been making money from corrupt government should be dealt with and all you wrote was purity rhetoric and nothing more.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Rothbardian Girl View Post


    I've seen plenty of posts on here defending Putin because of his supposed refusal to kiss the asses of Western powers. I guess those people just have really low standards for world leaders, and have fallen for RT's propaganda at the same time. Crimea may have voted to join Russia, but Putin had plenty of help in that regard from Stalin's forced resettlement and extermination of the native Crimean population... but hey, self-determination.

    As for Putin's supposed non-interventionist and pro-free-market credentials, please tell that to the people in the Baltic countries who have had to suffer a never-ending deluge of conspiratorial hogwash from his propaganda outlets. The guy's scum just like everyone else. He doesn't get "cool points" for being a cowboy.
    History did not start in 1776 the Tatars are native to the Crimea no more than every other tribe that butchered its way into Europe .Europe is not the Western USA where people went with wagons finding abandoned land and starting life.Every inch of land has been payed for by in blood.

    How is any vote in the USA legal when your grandparents helped to exterminate the entire local population .
    Last edited by Demigod; 11-25-2014 at 10:00 AM.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    i have said positive things about Putin in the past and that is not because I was taken in by RT propaganda. I cannot help but cheer when I see him speaking up against the West invasion of Libya and Syria which have essentially killed millions of people and destroyed billions in dollars worth of property. I can't see how even you cannot see this as a good thing worth cheering.
    His criticism of Western intervention rings a little hollow, seeing as he has defended the Nazi-Soviet pact that led to the partitioning of Poland and plans for the division of Finland, Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia and Romania. I guess murder and violence is OK and justifiable when his side does it.

    Also, this pretty much sums up the debate on the Crimea referendum for me:
    Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just and that his justice cannot sleep forever. Thomas Jefferson

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Rothbardian Girl View Post
    His criticism of Western intervention rings a little hollow, seeing as he has defended the Nazi-Soviet pact that led to the partitioning of Poland and plans for the division of Finland, Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia and Romania. I guess murder and violence is OK and justifiable when his side does it.

    Also, this pretty much sums up the debate on the Crimea referendum for me:
    Also left off your list is the coup that happened that led to referendum vote. Without it, most of the east and Crimea would still be part of Ukraine today, so how about we leave Putin alone and blame the people responsible for all this turmoil.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by qh4dotcom View Post
    I am in Ukraine right now....they are celebrating the first anniversary of last year's revolution....on the main street in Kyiv there are pictures of those who died and flowers next to their photos.
    Seems like it was a hoot alright...

    “Shame on you!", “Who are your heroes, Poroshenko?” and “Down with Poroshenko!” people shouted as the president lit a candle at the memorial at Institutskaya Street in central Kiev.
    'Shame on you!’ Ukrainian president booed by protesters on Maidan (VIDEO, PHOTOS)

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Demigod View Post
    In your opinion it is not in my opinion it is the first thing that should be done.If I don't pay my taxes no one considers my punishment a violent takeover.Taking everything they have and locking them up for life is the minimum.What they have been doing has long passed simple corruption and has become full blown treason.

    Then all assets should be sold off with citizens having an opportunity to buy shares off at market prices first and then what is left should be auctioned off.
    Would you be in favor of taxes, (and their accompanying punishments) if the rate was set to 100%? Would that not be outright theft?

    What about 99%? 80%? 65%? 50%? What about 49%? Does that reach your threshold of tolerability?

    There is no logical difference between 100% and 1%.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by staerker View Post
    Would you be in favor of taxes, (and their accompanying punishments) if the rate was set to 100%? Would that not be outright theft?

    What about 99%? 80%? 65%? 50%? What about 49%? Does that reach your threshold of tolerability?

    There is no logical difference between 100% and 1%.
    This has nothing to do with how high taxes are,they could be 1% ,10% 99% and 3000000% and the cronies would never pay them.They are not doing that out of ideology they are doing it out of greed.They are not avoiding the tax because they think that everyone should not pay taxes they are not paying them because they are the system.


    In my country after the 90`s fall of socialism the company executives that were left over from socialism with the help of their new government friends ( and foreign agents ) threatened the workers until they stole all their company shares for almost nothing.After they would acquire enough shares they would just strip the companies to the bone and sell everything leaving everyone on the streets.The government would run companies into the the ground on purpose to decrease their value and then sell them for symbolic sums of 1$ so that the next day several million dollars worth of materials are found in them. This same people have not payed taxes in their life time while everyone else has been bled dry.

    And what you want to tell me that I should be against nationalizing their entire property and imprisoning them for life just because of some ideological purity .
    Last edited by Demigod; 11-25-2014 at 11:48 AM.



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