Pastor Blasts Women for Lack of Modesty

[presence]

What happened to women that said, "I'm not going to walk down the isle like a filthy dish rag on my wedding day." ?

[pcosmar]

I suspect this same pastor would support killing people that enforce modesty laws.
or killing for people that support modesty laws.



Sex education should come from the parents. It is a shame that parents can be so unpredictable on this.

[juleswin]

Shes right, women who have sex pre marriage are not dish rags. But I just have to call her out for using the "NH has low teen pregnancy because they have comprehensive sex ed and Mississippi has high teen pregnancy rate because they teach abstinence only ed" argument. There are so many factors left out in that line of thinking that affects teen pregnancy rates. Its not just what type of sex ed the state uses that should be considered when analyzing this sort of numbers.

A better way to compare the effects of sex ed is to see what happens to the rates after sex ed taught is changed in one state (while everything else stays the same or close to the same). I have a feeling that if the type of sex ed taught were reversed between NH and Mississippi, the teen pregnancy rate will still be higher in Mississippi than NH.

[staerker]

He may be correct about the filthy dish rag part (the actions at least.) I just hope that he's not so naive to try and compensate with 'righteous' living.

We are all infected and impure with sin. When we display our righteous deeds, they are nothing but filthy rags. Like autumn leaves, we wither and fall, and our sins sweep us away like the wind.

Haha, I found the definition of 'filthy rags' rather apropos.

The term “filthy rags” is quite strong. The word filthy is a translation of the Hebrew word iddah, which literally means “the bodily fluids from a woman’s menstrual cycle.” The word rags is a translation of begged, meaning “a rag or garment.” Therefore, these “righteous acts” are considered by God as repugnant as a soiled feminine hygiene product.

[jmdrake]

I get it. Purity pledges "creepy". Comprehensive sex ed "good". And when a 13 year old boy goes to sex ed class and then immediately afterwards rapes a 13 year old girl...mission accomplished.

[Muwahid]

Even though this guy is a bit eccentric, I hate how we can't have an honest discourse with regard to modesty. I remember a human sexuality course I took, and it prompted a discussion on sexual harassment. Women were genuinely of the opinion that they should be able to dress as scantily as they please, and men should "get over it", and "not stare".

From my POV as a science major I argued that exposing body parts which are sexualized by our culture will cause a biochemical reaction for men it will induce a level of arousal, and in general this will lead to the staring, the comments, etc. But women did not want to take any responsibility saying "you're blaming the victim".

For a structured civil society we cannot be as promiscuous as we want, we shouldn't sexualize ourselves at every public venue. This behavior has many consequences, and I believe it's part of the reason why the traditional household (mom, dad, kids, strong connection to extended family) is being destroyed, and the destruction of that traditional household means to poor development of children on a psychological level who benefit greatly from a traditional male female marital relationship. Finding the protection and strength from the father, finding the love and affection from the mother, etc.

[euphemia]

I did not watch the video. Maybe later. I have this discussion a lot.

Biblical context of what is called modesty means a conspicuous display of wealth, not baggy clothes from shoulder to ankle. I do not think we need to run around half dressed, and there are things that are inappropriate to wear in public. With that said, the Bible is really teaching that we don't dress to impress people with our wealth, but reach out to people with the beauty of our inner selves.

Modesty is also not limited to women. I think men are often immodest. Totally do not want to see your underwear, or worse, your, um, crack. If man boobs are a problem, please wear woven shirts and an undershirt.

[William Tell]

I think the gal in the video is insulting women, saying they don't have the self control to keep a pledge they make.

Do you ignore your animalistic urges?

Lol, just lol.

And she says she has no interest in what he does in his life, while spending 5 minutes bashing him for what he does with his life!

And she says she won't nasty things about him, and then call him a

F****** d***

[pcosmar]

I did not watch the video. Maybe later. I have this discussion a lot.

Biblical context of what is called modesty means a conspicuous display of wealth, not baggy clothes from shoulder to ankle. I do not think we need to run around half dressed, and there are things that are inappropriate to wear in public. With that said, the Bible is really teaching that we don't dress to impress people with our wealth, but reach out to people with the beauty of our inner selves.

Modesty is also not limited to women. I think men are often immodest. Totally do not want to see your underwear, or worse, your, um, crack. If man boobs are a problem, please wear woven shirts and an undershirt.

Very close to my own thoughts. And what of those in tropical climates where clothes have always been minimal? And where nudity is not any real big deal?

Who decides what the dress code is..?

[William Tell]

I get it. Purity pledges "creepy". Comprehensive sex ed "good". And when a 13 year old boy goes to sex ed class and then immediately afterwards rapes a 13 year old girl...mission accomplished.

What, you want him to ignore his "animalistic instincts'?

[Muwahid]

Very close to my own thoughts. And what of those in tropical climates where clothes have always been minimal? And where nudity is not any real big deal?

Who decides what the dress code is..?

Even if in some places there's a desensitization of nudity, our natural inclination is to be attracted to certain female bodyparts. There have been many biological and evolutionary explanations for this. I just believe attaining sexual stimulation or attraction from only a select few will enable you to more easily attain a long lasting monogamous relationship, rather than being promiscuous. And this has many benefits for a person as an individual and for society as a whole.

[euphemia]

Unless someone has grown up under a rock, I would say that by age 9, the human body holds no mystery to anyone.

And just for you uninitiated, this kind of modesty teaching does not allow slacks on women or jeans on anyone. Women can't cut their hair, but they can (and do) perm it to death. Enough hairspray to stop a tank. No jewelry, but you won't find even a tiny bit of space between the rhinestones on the phone. I once waited on a teenager of this persuasion. Her wallet had a dozen credit cards and took up the entire length of the counter. Her purse was the size of a mobile home. But she did not have on a speck of makeup.

I'm Christian and take the Bible seriously. I think there is a disconnect in the teaching here. They have totally missed the point.

[pcosmar]

Even if in some places there's a desensitization of nudity, our natural inclination is to be attracted to certain female bodyparts.
.

Yeah,, and so?

"Male and Female He created them"
I happen to think Females are very nearly His greatest creation..

And why is Promiscuity and Nudity equated?


Can you not appreciate a woman, and respect a woman at the same time? (or the reverse for the ladies)

Or am i odd. I don't feel the need to have sex with every woman that I find attractive.
I may think about it,,

I do have some self control.

[William Tell]

Yeah,, and so?

"Male and Female He created them"
I happen to think Females are very nearly His greatest creation..

And why is Promiscuity and Nudity equated?


Can you not appreciate a woman, and respect a woman at the same time? (or the reverse for the ladies)

Or am i odd. I don't feel the need to have sex with every woman that I find attractive.
I may think about it,,

I do have some self control.

Some self control, nice. I think I would have a bit of trouble not lusting after gals, when brushing past them in the mall and their stark naked or whatever. Because of what Jesus said about committing adultery in the heart, I would rather women keep some covers on. Especially married women, but of course, they can do as they please I suppose...

I certainly wouldn't want my wife, if I had one, to go prancing naked down the street.

[euphemia]

Nobody's saying women should run naked. I'm saying the brand of modesty taught here is not biblical (the speaker's own standard).

I am also saying that modesty is not gender specific. Men should not be showing their stuff, either.

[William Tell]

Nobody's saying women should run naked. I'm saying the brand of modesty taught here is not biblical (the speaker's own standard).

I am also saying that modesty is not gender specific. Men should not be showing their stuff, either.

pcosmar touched on nudity.

[Muwahid]

Yeah,, and so?

"Male and Female He created them"
I happen to think Females are very nearly His greatest creation..

And why is Promiscuity and Nudity equated?


Can you not appreciate a woman, and respect a woman at the same time? (or the reverse for the ladies)

Or am i odd. I don't feel the need to have sex with every woman that I find attractive.
I may think about it,,

I do have some self control.

Oh I am very pleased with the lord's creation of the female

My contention is merely that overexposure of sexualized body parts, leads to promiscuity from natural biological aspects like arousal, and thus leads to less monogamous long-term relationships.

Therefore I think conservative dress codes promote longer lasting monogamous relationships in general.

[euphemia]

Please understand: I respect men and the way they are hard wired. What I am saying is that current modesty teaching has no basis in the Scripture and that they mean something entirely different than what the general population thinks is modest.

[William Tell]

Please understand: I respect men and the way they are hard wired. What I am saying is that current modesty teaching has no basis in the Scripture and that they mean something entirely different than what the general population thinks is modest.

You have made a lot of good points in this thread, I agree that many people take it too far. Ideally both men and women would behave in ways respectful of each other.

[Crashland]

Even though this guy is a bit eccentric, I hate how we can't have an honest discourse with regard to modesty. I remember a human sexuality course I took, and it prompted a discussion on sexual harassment. Women were genuinely of the opinion that they should be able to dress as scantily as they please, and men should "get over it", and "not stare".

From my POV as a science major I argued that exposing body parts which are sexualized by our culture will cause a biochemical reaction for men it will induce a level of arousal, and in general this will lead to the staring, the comments, etc. But women did not want to take any responsibility saying "you're blaming the victim".

Yes, but practically everything can be linked to biochemical reactions. If your wife cheats on you, that also triggers a chemical reaction in your brain that can make you angry and "lead to" you stabbing your wife. But if you do that, *you* are the one who will be held fully responsible for the murder, and rightly so. It would be wrong to assign any responsibility to her for the murder. That would be blaming the victim. The only responsibility that could be assigned to her is disappointing you, which is a world away from being responsible for your actions.

Applying this to the issue of modesty, women should expect men to respect them and treat them with dignity regardless of what they wear. That includes not making demeaning comments, and particularly not assaulting them. Staring can happen unintentionally, but if you want to not be a rude person then you will make a conscious effort not to stare if you think it might make the woman uncomfortable. The same principles would apply if no one wore any clothes at all.

[amy31416]

Can we just go back to togas already? I might have to start my own company here. I can't sew worth a damn, but I think I could handle that with some strategic folding.

I'm thinking Suz would make a good model for my new line, given that she's down South and us Yankees would need long-woolen robe things more along the lines of what monks wear.

Your girls could bedazzle them! Your boys could put skater punk logos on 'em. All customizeable, and can double as curtains or a bed sheet in a pinch.

[PaulConventionWV]

Jeez, how many Youtube feminists are there? It seems like I see a new one every day. I guess that's feminist privilege for ya.

[PaulConventionWV]

Even though this guy is a bit eccentric, I hate how we can't have an honest discourse with regard to modesty. I remember a human sexuality course I took, and it prompted a discussion on sexual harassment. Women were genuinely of the opinion that they should be able to dress as scantily as they please, and men should "get over it", and "not stare".

From my POV as a science major I argued that exposing body parts which are sexualized by our culture will cause a biochemical reaction for men it will induce a level of arousal, and in general this will lead to the staring, the comments, etc. But women did not want to take any responsibility saying "you're blaming the victim".

For a structured civil society we cannot be as promiscuous as we want, we shouldn't sexualize ourselves at every public venue. This behavior has many consequences, and I believe it's part of the reason why the traditional household (mom, dad, kids, strong connection to extended family) is being destroyed, and the destruction of that traditional household means to poor development of children on a psychological level who benefit greatly from a traditional male female marital relationship. Finding the protection and strength from the father, finding the love and affection from the mother, etc.

This bitch doesn't seem to understand that not everyone cares if she gets offended. What happened to having multiple perspectives? This guy is obviously coming at it from the perspective of "Be more than that because you are NOT a filthy dishrag" and for some reason, she seems to think he's talking directly to her, "Who is this guy to tell me..."

He's a PASTOR. He talks to whoever listens. He's not telling you to do anything because he's talking to the people who are willing to listen, which is not you so stop worrying about it so much. Not everything is about you.

[Suzanimal]

Can we just go back to togas already? I might have to start my own company here. I can't sew worth a damn, but I think I could handle that with some strategic folding.

I'm thinking Suz would make a good model for my new line, given that she's down South and us Yankees would need long-woolen robe things more along the lines of what monks wear.

Your girls could bedazzle them! Your boys could put skater punk logos on 'em. All customizeable, and can double as curtains or a bed sheet in a pinch.

I'm down with that, togas rock. I can't sew either but I have a Bedazzler and a hot glue gun.

[Origanalist]

I'm down with that, togas rock. I can't sew either but I have a Bedazzler and a hot glue gun.

It's on baby! Pics are mandatory.

[Muwahid]

Yes, but practically everything can be linked to biochemical reactions. If your wife cheats on you, that also triggers a chemical reaction in your brain that can make you angry and "lead to" you stabbing your wife. But if you do that, *you* are the one who will be held fully responsible for the murder, and rightly so. It would be wrong to assign any responsibility to her for the murder. That would be blaming the victim. The only responsibility that could be assigned to her is disappointing you, which is a world away from being responsible for your actions.

Applying this to the issue of modesty, women should expect men to respect them and treat them with dignity regardless of what they wear. That includes not making demeaning comments, and particularly not assaulting them. Staring can happen unintentionally, but if you want to not be a rude person then you will make a conscious effort not to stare if you think it might make the woman uncomfortable. The same principles would apply if no one wore any clothes at all.

No I get what you're saying but I'm saying triggering biochemical reactions is blameworthy too.

As an example, if I go to a soldiers funeral and say he deserved to die a la westboro baptist church, and one of the family members punches me in the throat. On one hand you may say he should have controlled his anger, but on the other I shouldn't have incited.

Civilized society works by both sides trying to work in a way that both sides can behave normally. Woman shouldn't have their womanly parts handing out just as much as men shouldn't be gawking and staring. I think its toxic for everyone.

[Crashland]

This bitch doesn't seem to understand that not everyone cares if she gets offended. What happened to having multiple perspectives? This guy is obviously coming at it from the perspective of "Be more than that because you are NOT a filthy dishrag" and for some reason, she seems to think he's talking directly to her, "Who is this guy to tell me..."

He's a PASTOR. He talks to whoever listens. He's not telling you to do anything because he's talking to the people who are willing to listen, which is not you so stop worrying about it so much. Not everything is about you.

The phrase "Be more than that because you are NOT a filthy dishrag" basically translates to "You should change because I think you are acting like a filthy dishrag (even though you totally aren't a filthy dishrag)". Her point is valid, it is demeaning and even though it is not addressed to her, it should concern her when someone is perpetuating that idea.

[amy31416]

I'm down with that, togas rock. I can't sew either but I have a Bedazzler and a hot glue gun.

I have velcro strips and some of that iron-on "stitching," along with a couple of sharpies. There's no way for this to fail!

It's on baby! Pics are mandatory.

And there will be a charge for the catalog.

Now all we need is a leatherworker for the sandals. Tod E.? Pete?

[Muwahid]

The phrase "Be more than that because you are NOT a filthy dishrag" basically translates to "You should change because I think you are acting like a filthy dishrag (even though you totally aren't a filthy dishrag)". Her point is valid, it is demeaning and even though it is not addressed to her, it should concern her when someone is perpetuating that idea.

I think it's wrong to label anyone with insults, especially as a religious leader because then someone who wants to turn to God will feel unworthy and unwelcomed. I agree. But I'm merely pointing out the culture of "i can wear whatever I want, and guys should deal with it", I think is ridiculous as well. nowadays it seems conservative dress is looked down on. its sad.

[Crashland]

No I get what you're saying but I'm saying triggering biochemical reactions is blameworthy too.

As an example, if I go to a soldiers funeral and say he deserved to die a la westboro baptist church, and one of the family members punches me in the throat. On one hand you may say he should have controlled his anger, but on the other I shouldn't have incited.

Civilized society works by both sides trying to work in a way that both sides can behave normally. Woman shouldn't have their womanly parts handing out just as much as men shouldn't be gawking and staring. I think its toxic for everyone.

I see your point, but I feel that the responsibility for triggering a biochemical reaction is not even on the same plane as the responsibility for controlling one's own actions. We are all better off when we are all considerate of each other's needs. But if we are going to go down that road, then we should also be rebuking people for smoking in public, for example. Getting a whiff of someone's disgusting cigarette is a million times worse than having to deal with some scantily-clad woman's image assaulting my eyes. But it's their life. If people want to smoke in public I'll deal with it and will still respect them as long as they don't intentionally blow it in my face. If a woman wants to dress that way I will deal with it as long as they don't come up to me and intentionally thrust their breasts in my face.