Cleveland cop shoots 12yo boy carrying BB gun

[limequat]

When the SWAT team killed the black man in Walmart with the airsoft gun, the gun had not been altered. And police have shot people reaching for their wallets.

Or a cell phone, or a game controller, or a water hose....

[PaulConventionWV]

"The excuse " We were feared for our lives" is Ludacris..."

This is why I can't take anonymous seriously. That and the fact that they always seem to get it wrong. Why did the child need to be tasered in the first place? The way they word it, they tacitly admit that something needed to be done to the child. Let's all forget for a moment how we are supposed to expect that a 12-year-old pulled a fake gun on officers knowing it was fake. If you're 12, you should be able to realize 1) such a behavior will get you killed (especially if you're black) and 2) It won't accomplish anything except getting you killed.

Why, then, would a black 12 year old boy pull a fake gun on a police officer? The only tangible reason is that he was committing suicide by cop, and that is also a ridiculous, outlandish claim considering the fact that 1) he's 12, and 2) he was not the one who called the damn police!

There were other options besides using any kind of force on the boy, and the suggestion that anybody needed to force him to do anything is "Ludacris", as it were.

[PaulConventionWV]

I am just going to say this, I think people should know better by now not to wave a toy gun around. We live in a society where someone is bound to be afraid of it and call the cops. And if the cops do show up, there is a high chance of you getting shot. Teach it to your kids and hope they listen because the world is not what it used to be and playing with a gun lookalike is not all its cracked up to be. Just crank up Battle field or Call of duty video games and have some good, clean, safe fun

Even 12 year olds? Are we really going to pontificate on what is wrong with a 12 year old who forgets some of the ridiculous ways society acts? The boy wasn't at fault here, at all. He wasn't supposed to have known better, as you seem to be suggesting. He was supposed to have been treated like a 12 your old rather than someone who knows better than to play with a toy gun. A 12 year old forgetting to consider the cultural sensitivities of playing with a certain toy... outlandish!

[SeanTX]

I'll bet the kid was doing what probably caused Eric Scott to be shot in Las Vegas -- orders were being screamed at him to "drop the weapon!!! " and he reached for it to do that very thing. Damned if he did, damned if he didn't -- and it was all up to the officer to decide if he wanted to end his life right then , or not.

Cops really are becoming judge, jury, and executioner out on the streets. And then people wonder why some might question what happened to Michael Brown ...

This is a case of manslaughter at the very least, and if the cop isn't charged with something then buildings need to burn -- preferably .gov buildings or cop property though ... leave private property and innocent parties alone.

And yes, that may sound harsh, but what else will get their attention ? More SWLODs and more Facebook "Justice for ..." pages ?

[Tod]

Protestors in Cleveland, blocking some roads and a lot of LOUD chanting, but no vandalism, looting or other violence.

Live feed:

http://www.wkyc.com/videos/homepage/2014/10/20/3311833/

[Red Green]

Had that gun been real, and the child actually knew how to shoot it, a cop could have been killed. More likely just injured, but a cop could have been killed.

I'm sorry, but if you ask me to choose between the lives of a hero and a small child, I'll go with the hero every time.

Yeah, the thing about kids is there's lots of them and you can always make more, but HEROES are really hard to come by so I'm with you bro......

[Red Green]

Frankly, if a suspect has a weapon police should be obliged to take cover, surround, and negotiate. Execute first and ask questions later is unamerican and anti due process.

Look, the suspect in this case was a 12yo kid. You really want to risk the cops being outsmarted during negotiations?

[Red Green]

Why is this cop a hero? WTF am I missing?

UMMM.... he has a BADGE. Hello!.... Badge! ..... Hero!

[Antischism]

I'll bet the kid was doing what probably caused Eric Scott to be shot in Las Vegas -- orders were being screamed at him to "drop the weapon!!! " and he reached for it to do that very thing. Damned if he did, damned if he didn't -- and it was all up to the officer to decide if he wanted to end his life right then , or not.

Cops really are becoming judge, jury, and executioner out on the streets. And then people wonder why some might question what happened to Michael Brown ...

This is a case of manslaughter at the very least, and if the cop isn't charged with something then buildings need to burn -- preferably .gov buildings or cop property though ... leave private property and innocent parties alone.

And yes, that may sound harsh, but what else will get their attention ? More SWLODs and more Facebook "Justice for ..." pages ?

Like the Sean Groubert incident. Barking orders at the guy (for what?) and then shooting at him as he's doing exactly what they said because apparently they didn't like how he was doing it.

[juleswin]

Even 12 year olds? Are we really going to pontificate on what is wrong with a 12 year old who forgets some of the ridiculous ways society acts? The boy wasn't at fault here, at all. He wasn't supposed to have known better, as you seem to be suggesting. He was supposed to have been treated like a 12 your old rather than someone who knows better than to play with a toy gun. A 12 year old forgetting to consider the cultural sensitivities of playing with a certain toy... outlandish!

I am not blaming the boy here but just like with any rape, it never hurts to look back and see what we could have done differently to prevent being a victim. We have seen this story play over and over again, the 16yr old at walmart, the 16 yr old in Utah etc etc. If a 6 yr old can learn stranger danger then I don't think its that much unreasonable to teach a 12 yr old not to play with gun toys in public. I don't know about you but if I had a kid, I am will be telling him not to play with his toy gun outside the house.

[Occam's Banana]

"Guns are not toys," [Police Chief Calvin Williams] said. "We need to teach our kids that."

Toys are not guns. We need to teach our cops that.

When the SWAT team killed the black man in Walmart with the airsoft gun, the gun had not been altered. And police have shot people reaching for their wallets.

Or a cell phone, or a game controller, or a water hose....

Or a cordless drill ... http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...Cordless-Drill

Looks like instead of pontificating on what guns are not, they need to worry more about what are not guns ...

[otherone]

Toys are not guns. We need to teach our cops that.

outta rep...I owe you...

[ghengis86]

I think "toy guns" are terrible. I never bought my kids "toy guns". They got Red Ryder's at a very young age and were taught the basics of gun safety (treat the gun as if its always loaded, never point it at anything you don't want to shoot, know whats behind your target, finger off the trigger until you're ready to shoot, etc.). They were taught how handle real, heavy guns at a young age; how to get an adult if they there was a gun sitting out; how toy guns create bad habits, etc., etc. Even air soft guns and cap guns were treated like firearms ought to be.

Soooo...as it relates to this story, ALL children need to be taught proper gun safety and handling from a very young age so that two things happen: 1 - there are no more negligent discharges of firearms that kill curious kids fooling around with daddy's .38 and 2 - children learn the proper way to handle all guns and that waving it around, point it at people - even "toy" guns - is unacceptable.

Not at all excusing what happened here, but society is so callous to all the "toy" guns out there and then are shocked - SHOCKED - that other people take an exact replica seriously when a kid is waving it around and acting recklessly.

On the other side, even if the gun was real, the cops should first clear the area, secure perimeter and then defuse and/or wait it out or at least take defensive positions do they not scared $#@!less like a bunch of vaginas. The descalation training is non-existent as evidenced by their own actions.

TLDR - knock off this "toy gun" nonsense and stop shooting everything and anything that moves while yelling the common exonerables, "I was in fear for my life", "he wasn't dropping the object in the 12 microseconds I gave him to drop it", "he was coming right for us!"

($#@!...a 12 yd old kid dead...damnit, so depressing)

[ghengis86]

Toys are not guns. We need to teach our cops that.





Or a cordless drill ... http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...Cordless-Drill

Looks like instead of pontificating on what guns are not, they need to worry more about what are not guns ...

outta rep...I owe you...

Guns are not toys. We should teach our kids and parents that. I respectfully (seriously, not trying to be a dick) disagree with this sentiment.

I agree that cops shouldn't be shooting the $#@! out of kids even if they have toy guns, nerf guns, dart guns etc. I'm just more or less commenting on the crap society produces when we pretend that treating a lethal weapon as a toy is "ok".

(I might be a curmudgeonly stick in the mud, I know)

[Occam's Banana]

Guns are not toys. We should teach our kids and parents that. I respectfully (seriously, not trying to be a dick) disagree with this sentiment.

Toys are not guns.

I agree that cops shouldn't be shooting the $#@! out of kids even if they have toy guns, nerf guns, dart guns etc. I'm just more or less commenting on the crap society produces when we pretend that treating a lethal weapon as a toy is "ok".

(I might be a curmudgeonly stick in the mud, I know)

No one was treating a lethal weapon as a toy - nor was anyone pretending to do so.

The ONLY lethal weapon involved was the one the cop used to kill the kid.

Toys. Are. Not. Guns.

[Mani]

I'll bet the kid was doing what probably caused Eric Scott to be shot in Las Vegas -- orders were being screamed at him to "drop the weapon!!! " and he reached for it to do that very thing. Damned if he did, damned if he didn't -- and it was all up to the officer to decide if he wanted to end his life right then , or not.

Cops really are becoming judge, jury, and executioner out on the streets. And then people wonder why some might question what happened to Michael Brown ...

This is a case of manslaughter at the very least, and if the cop isn't charged with something then buildings need to burn -- preferably .gov buildings or cop property though ... leave private property and innocent parties alone.

And yes, that may sound harsh, but what else will get their attention ? More SWLODs and more Facebook "Justice for ..." pages ?

This.


The kid reached for his weapon getting shot is probably the same as the guy who guy shot getting his driver's license, the same as the HUNDREDS OF BULL$#@! POLICE REPORTS OF SOMEONE LUNGING FOR THEIR WEAPON.


Two officers on the scene one yells, "HANDS UP!!" the other yells, "PUT YOUR WEAPON ON THE GROUND!!!"

Kid tries to put his weapon on the ground and is blown away.


I'd bet money that's the $#@!ing truth of the story. But the cops are smart enough to leave that bit of info out, and all you will see is a kid reaching for his toy and get blasted.




Sometimes trying to COMPLY with an officer's demands still gets you killed. I think all the talk of toy guns is useless. When 2 cops shout conflicting orders, YOU get shot. We've seen these cases on RPF dozens of times. And all those idiot comments on the news articles saying the kid deserved it, or the kid should know better are $#@!ing ignorant to realize the kid wasn't pulling out his weapon to threaten cops. $#@!ing ignorant if you believe what's in a police report. Kid was probably $#@!ting in his pants when the cops showed up and tried to follow their $#@!ed up orders.


You think the cops are going to put in the police report, "We shouted drop your weapon and when he took out the toy gun we shot him in the gut a few times." $#@! no. They feared for their safety, the kid didn't listen to our commands and lunged for the weapon. We had no choice. We are heroes with such a tough dangerous job...

[TheTexan]

Toys are not guns.

It's a bad idea in general to treat a toy gun as a toy. It reinforces poor safety habits. Parents should have taught kid better.

Would have saved this brave, poor, cop from the misfortune of having to shoot a child for the protection of himself and everyone else at the park. So hero. Such brave.

[TheTexan]

lunged for the weapon.

Yep, when you fear for your life, the adrenaline causes everything to happen in slow motion. Except when people lunge for their identification. That goes much faster.

[Mani]

Yep, when you fear for your life, the adrenaline causes everything to happen in slow motion. Except when people lunge for their identification. That goes much faster.

Ya, like this classic when instead of TWO officers saying CONFLICTING things, it's ONE officer giving conflicting commands.

Hero: "GET OUT OF THE CAR!! SHOW ME YOUR ID!!!" *BLAM* *BLAM*

Mundane: "Why did you shoot me??"

Hero: "You didn't listen to me, you went into your car!"

Mundane "Because you asked for my id!"



Why the Hero lost his job...Still is perplexing...Mundane didn't follow both of his orders, deserved to get shot.

[SeanTX]

They just had a press conference naming the officer, and I think the video is being released today too. Should be interesting to see if it will fan the flames of unrest.

[devil21]

Video has been released. Not good. Looks like cop jumped out of the car and immediately shot him dead. Police interaction starts around 7:10 mark of the vid.

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index...elease_vi.html

[FloralScent]

Like the Sean Groubert incident. Barking orders at the guy (for what?) and then shooting at him as he's doing exactly what they said because apparently they didn't like how he was doing it.

I saw the video, was there audio?

[phill4paul]

Stupid fuggin cop move anyway. Drive up net to a supposedly armed suspect and exit in his immediate line of fire? Should have pulled in at the curb and used the vehicle and doors as a shield while demanding him to drop the weapon. Fuggin dipshits. 12 yr. old dead. And NOTHING will come of it.

[Cleaner44]

Sick $#@!! Shooting kids for playing with toys. WTF!

[Brett85]

So where are all the protests over this?

[phill4paul]

So where are all the protests over this?

They didn't let the teen bleed out for hours in the road?

[SeanTX]

Stupid fuggin cop move anyway. Drive up net to a supposedly armed suspect and exit in his immediate line of fire? Should have pulled in at the curb and used the vehicle and doors as a shield while demanding him to drop the weapon. Fuggin dipshits. 12 yr. old dead. And NOTHING will come of it.

I haven't seen the video (couldn't get it to load) -- but I read elsewhere that the cop fell on his ass after firing the shot -- that's how quickly he fired after jumping out of a moving car -- if that's so, there is NO way the kid had time to respond to any command, or for the cop to give one ... manslaughter at the least.

[TheTexan]

So where are all the protests over this?

I don't see anything on CNN about it, so it can't be that important.

[Occam's Banana]

I don't see anything on CNN about it, so it can't be that important.

Nothing on FOX or MSNBC either. Therefore, this cannot be relevant to my interests.

[kcchiefs6465]

Stupid fuggin cop move anyway. Drive up net to a supposedly armed suspect and exit in his immediate line of fire? Should have pulled in at the curb and used the vehicle and doors as a shield while demanding him to drop the weapon. Fuggin dipshits. 12 yr. old dead. And NOTHING will come of it.

They're incompetent half-wits, overwhelmingly, but the last thing they'd do is drive straight to someone suspected of having a gun, threatening people. They knew the gun was a "toy." They wouldn't have entered as they did else wise.