Obama Orders Amnesty for Millions

[PRB]

Whether deportation policy is applied proportionately by race among the population of illegals in the U.S. is unrelated to the racial proportions existing in the world at large, since deportations to not apply to latter. Deportation might be construed as racist if a particular racial group within the population of illegals was more frequently deported than another.

I agree, it's unrelated to proportions of the world, and all related to proportions of actual immigrants here. And yes, it can be construed as racist, so you agree with me.

[HOLLYWOOD]

ALL ABOARD!

[PRB]

ALL ABOARD!

what's wrong with that unless you're racist or nationalist?

you can't have it both ways, either you want there to be less government and illegals are going to flood this country, or you want this country to be free from aliens and you'll have fascism with people checked everywhere for their papers. pick one.

this is no different than a picture showing drunk drivers, that's the price of liberty. if you don't want police stopping people every night everywhere asking for license and asking if the person has had any alcohol to drink, you have to allow drunk people to drive and innocent people have to be killed as a result. you can't have it both ways.

[Brian4Liberty]

They would also risk losing the jobs that they currently have. Going "legal" means employers would have to start following all of the labor and taxation laws, with all of the paperwork that entails. It would also identify the business as previously employing illegal labor.

Next up, Obama is going to give you amnesty to own guns. All you have to do is register them with the Federal government...

Are you saying because of minimum wage?

Yep. Minimum wage and a variety of additional costs and hassles.

[PRB]

Yep. Minimum wage and a variety of additional costs and hassles.

If I like my wages, I can keep them, right? Or will I be forced to pay affordable wages?

[moostraks]

what's wrong with that unless you're racist or nationalist?

you can't have it both ways, either you want there to be less government and illegals are going to flood this country, or you want this country to be free from aliens and you'll have fascism with people checked everywhere for their papers. pick one.

this is no different than a picture showing drunk drivers, that's the price of liberty. if you don't want police stopping people every night everywhere asking for license and asking if the person has had any alcohol to drink, you have to allow drunk people to drive and innocent people have to be killed as a result. you can't have it both ways.

Instead of supporting behavior that is harmful, one could advocate for personal responsibility without being a racist or a nationalist. You present a narrowminded set of options for the situation.

[PRB]

Instead of supporting behavior that is harmful, one could advocate for personal responsibility without being a racist or a nationalist. You present a narrowminded set of options for the situation.

Enlighten me.

How exactly is it personal responsibility to not welcome aliens to this country? oh yes, tell me all about this "harmful behavior"

[Brian4Liberty]

Every time a moderator on this forum believes their personal comfort usurps others' personal liberty, I...well I don't know what to think anymore.

No need to worry. My opinions are mine and mine alone. I don't speak for anyone else. There is no requirement for everyone to agree 100% on every issue. What ever happened to ending the welfare state as a prerequisite to more immigration? Not everyone agrees to that.

Have some compassion man. Has it ever occurred to you that those who immigrated here had it much worse than all the petty 1st World inconveniences you drone on about? You would rather have thousands (millions?) suffer in horrible living conditions than be 'forced' to wait three extra hours in line every five years.

And that is ignoring the obvious coercion involved in forcibly restricting a sovereign human's movement.

Compassion? Hmm. Never been much for bleeding heart liberalism. I suppose that reducing or ending welfare would not be compassionate either. On the other hand, my "compassion" does extent to people who have been here a long time. I've never been on the side calling for mass deportation. Slowing the inflow is a more realistic and "compassionate" position.

[Zippyjuan]

Inflows have slowed in recent years. (This covers both legal and illegal immigration):

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2014/...u-s-last-year/

And most have been here a long time. Most illegal immigrants have already been here for more than ten years.

https://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wo...n-03.png?w=610




Asians have actually become the biggest immigrant group (both legal and illegal immigrants) entering the US as net immigration from Mexico hit zero a few years ago. Maybe we need to increase security along our border with Asia.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/19/us...wave.html?_r=0

In a Shift, Biggest Wave of Migrants Is Now Asian

Asians have surpassed Hispanics as the largest wave of new immigrants to the United States, pushing the population of Asian descent to a record 18.2 million and helping to make Asians the fastest-growing racial group in the country, according to a study released Tuesday by the Pew Research Center.

While Asian immigration has increased slightly in recent years, the shift in ranking is largely attributable to the sharp decline in Hispanic immigration, the study said.

About 430,000 Asians — or 36 percent of all new immigrants, legal and illegal — moved to the United States in 2010, compared with 370,000 Hispanics, or 31 percent of all new arrivals, the study said. Just three years earlier, the ratio was reversed: about 390,000 Asians immigrated in 2007, compared with 540,000 Hispanics.

“Asians have become the largest stream of new immigrants to the U.S. — and, thus, the latest leading actors in this great American drama” of immigration, Paul Taylor, executive vice president of the Pew Research Center, wrote in the report.

Under this pressure, Hispanic immigration dropped 31 percent from 2007 to 2010, while Asian immigration increased about 10 percent.

More at link.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...nt-population/



Jobs or welfare?

Most have jobs, but many are poor

Since most people who come to the U.S. illegally do so to work, it isn’t surprising that most have jobs. About 65 percent of unauthorized immigrants over age 15 are employed, according to the Migration Policy Institute, a higher share than for the U.S. population as a whole. A large percentage work in construction, hospitality, food service and other sectors often associated with immigrant labor. But unauthorized immigrants can be found in virtually every industry.

A majority of unauthorized immigrants are struggling financially. Nearly a third live in poverty, and nearly two-thirds earn less than twice the federal poverty line. Two-thirds lack health insurance, and less than a third own their own homes.

[Lucille]

ROTFLMAO And how does that $#@!ing work?! If you read the tweets below it, there are people who actually believe that "fact."

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-1...omics-dont-mix

[HOLLYWOOD]

Pretty strong conjecture and accusations... I'm too busy right now to reply, but I will be back later to rip you a new $#@!.

what's wrong with that unless you're racist or nationalist?

you can't have it both ways, either you want there to be less government and illegals are going to flood this country, or you want this country to be free from aliens and you'll have fascism with people checked everywhere for their papers. pick one.

this is no different than a picture showing drunk drivers, that's the price of liberty. if you don't want police stopping people every night everywhere asking for license and asking if the person has had any alcohol to drink, you have to allow drunk people to drive and innocent people have to be killed as a result. you can't have it both ways.

[staerker]

No need to worry. My opinions are mine and mine alone. I don't speak for anyone else. There is no requirement for everyone to agree 100% on every issue. What ever happened to ending the welfare state as a prerequisite to more immigration? Not everyone agrees to that.

Compassion? Hmm. Never been much for bleeding heart liberalism. I suppose that reducing or ending welfare would not be compassionate either. On the other hand, my "compassion" does extent to people who have been here a long time. I've never been on the side calling for mass deportation. Slowing the inflow is a more realistic and "compassionate" position.

Ending welfare reduces coercion. Ending the police state reduces coercion. My point remains, you would rather increase the extent of the police state in order to solve your First World problems, than allow third worlder's a taste of 'your' luxury.

[Southron]

Why are you against that, unless you're racist?

Why should I care whether you think I am racist or not?

[moostraks]

Enlighten me.

How exactly is it personal responsibility to not welcome aliens to this country? oh yes, tell me all about this "harmful behavior"

Flood gates were opened once before and a good many of my relatives did not fair so well but had to assimilate with the masses swamping the country in order to survive. It wasn't right then either...

[Zippyjuan]

Which Native American tribe are you a member of? Or are your ancestors immigrants too?

(this is for anybody). Nearly all of us are descendants of immigrants to this country if not immigrants ourselves.

[Dianne]

Which Native American tribe are you a member of? Or are your ancestors immigrants too?

(this is for anybody). Nearly all of us are descendants of immigrants to this country if not immigrants ourselves.

Actually I'm 50% Cherokee mixed with 50% Austrian Jew .... figure out how that happened? Regardless, there should be no free ride for anyone.. Stand in line, await your turn, your hard work and perserverance will see you to the finish line. Poor old Obama, being the only member of his family that is NOT an illegal immigrant; or so he says, is just trying to rattle his saber. I strongly believe McConnell and Boehner are sitting in Obama's camp right now, as their greatest wish is to make the U.S. a dictatorship and the three of them are b hole buddies in testing how far they can go. We need the state governors to stand up and tell the Federal Government to go to hell. It would be so easy for a governor to say "NOT IN MY STATE" ... Let the illegals settle in New York and California.. Let NY and CA pay their total expenses... Currently the last kids brought over by Obama are sitting in special housing, costing the taxpayers over $1,000. PER DAY, per child when we have a huge amount of American kids that are homeless.

F'k Obama, Boehner, Pelosi, Reid, McConnell ... States throw the Federal Government out of our business.

[jclay2]

I hope this thread isn't representative of rpforums. Regardless of your opinion on immigration we should all be in favor of:

1. Stopping Dictatorial and Unconstitutional orders such as the one from Obama.

2. Getting rid of the welfare state (both personal and corporate) so that anyone who comes here is without a question adding value to our collective and free interactions.

Basically, increasing the number of second and third world uneducated immigrants to our welfare state will not help our position. Lets focus on decreasing the state before embracing aspects of freedom that are only possible when individuals are fully responsible.

[Brett85]

If the president is lifting restrictions on a person's ability to travel as they please, yes, it is.

A libertarian President could sign an executive order repealing the Federal Department of Education, and that would enhance liberty in the short term, but it would still be blatantly unconstitutional and damaging in the long run. No one who believes in limited government should be in favor of vastly increasing executive power.

[Brett85]

Yes he overreached his power. But also yes I support such an overreach. If Rand Paul as president doesn't act the same way in the 4-8 years in his presidential term, he's useless and will accomplish next to nothing.

He'll be an example to future Presidents about how a President is supposed to behave, about how our Constitution and the separation of powers is supposed to work. He could also get a lot accomplished simply be repealing thousands of previous executive orders that have eroded liberty in America.

[staerker]

Basically, increasing the number of second and third world uneducated immigrants to our welfare state will not help our position. Lets focus on increasing the police state before embracing aspects of freedom that are only perfected when the world becomes perfect. So pretty much never.

FIFY

[anaconda]

Ok, so you pointed out exceptions, does that mean short of exceptions my point still holds true?

I am not here to create a coherent argument for you. I simply pointed out that your statements were patently false.

[anaconda]

I agree, it's unrelated to proportions of the world, and all related to proportions of actual immigrants here. And yes, it can be construed as racist, so you agree with me.

I cannot agree unless you present evidence that deportation is proportionately biased within the population of illegals. Your statement that I agree with you is patently false.

[PRB]

ROTFLMAO And how does that $#@!ing work?! If you read the tweets below it, there are people who actually believe that "fact."

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-1...omics-dont-mix

over a course of a millions years, maybe.

[PRB]

I cannot agree unless you present evidence that deportation is proportionately biased within the population of illegals. Your statement that I agree with you is patently false.

it doesn't need to be proportionally biased, the fact more Mexicans are immigrants means more Mexicans will be deported UNLESS another group is unfairly targeted.

Just like if sober drivers accounted for 99% of all driving, you'd expect them to account for 99% of all car accidents too, UNLESS drunk drivers have a higher frequency of accidents (which they do), so instead, sober drivers account for 70% or less of all accidents. Somehow this proves that sober drivers are more dangerous.

[PRB]

I am not here to create a coherent argument for you. I simply pointed out that your statements were patently false.

Because you can't.

[moostraks]

Which Native American tribe are you a member of? Or are your ancestors immigrants too?

(this is for anybody). Nearly all of us are descendants of immigrants to this country if not immigrants ourselves.

As for my family, I stated in my post above yours that the bloodlines carried on in my family because they assimilated with those who swamped the country during the free-for-all invasion by Europeans. Many were exterminated who did not assimilate and look at those who have been left on the reservations. This isn't about self loathing or hypocrisy, but looking at what history has shown us about exploitation by swarms of immigrants with an entitlement attitude. I also grew up in Miami during the Carter years. It was very enlightening to see that situation play out as it is much like the border problems in Texas.

More government isn't the only answer to the problems. More government seems to actually be encouraging the situation to explode in even greater numbers while placing the debt upon the backs of those still left gainfully employed to support the current and future waves of people being brought in to change the political climate here. Everything old is new, European immigrants were used in the same fashion to conquer the NA.

[RonPaulFanInGA]

[anaconda]

it doesn't need to be proportionally biased, the fact more Mexicans are immigrants means more Mexicans will be deported UNLESS another group is unfairly targeted.

Just like if sober drivers accounted for 99% of all driving, you'd expect them to account for 99% of all car accidents too, UNLESS drunk drivers have a higher frequency of accidents (which they do), so instead, sober drivers account for 70% or less of all accidents. Somehow this proves that sober drivers are more dangerous.

About 52% of illegals are Mexican. If enforcement of immigration laws is applied to the population without racial bias, we would expect about 52% of deportations to be Mexicans. By your reasoning the deportation policy in Ghana is racist because the majority of their deported persons are black.

[PRB]

About 52% of illegals are Mexican. If enforcement of immigration laws is applied to the population without racial bias, we would expect about 52% of deportations to be Mexicans.

Correct, and if any more than 52% are Mexican, we can say it's racist against Mexicans. If somewhat less are deported are Mexican, you can still say the laws were intended to target the biggest offenders.

By your reasoning the deportation policy in Ghana is racist because the majority of their deported persons are black.

I'm willing to say that if it's actually the case.

[PRB]

Which Native American tribe are you a member of? Or are your ancestors immigrants too?

(this is for anybody). Nearly all of us are descendants of immigrants to this country if not immigrants ourselves.

So if I'm descendent from immigrants I must be OK with unlimited immigration?

That's right, if I'm a descendent of a slave owner, I must be OK with slavery too.