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Thread: The USS Liberty Truthers Were Right. Guess What? So are the 9/11 Ones

  1. #31
    With all those words, you're missing

    Rabbi Dov Zakheim

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dov_S._Zakheim

    the Wikipedia doesn't cover it much, but

    1) A $#@! ton on money was discovered missing on 9/10

    2) Zakheim was in charge of that money

    3) Zakheim was involved in remote controlled planes.

    http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=43927
    DoD financial experts, Zakheim said, are making good progress reconciling the department's "lost" expenditures, trimming them from a prior estimated total of $2.3 trillion to $700 billion. And, he added, the amount continues to drop.

    And here's what the conspiracy people think about this
    http://www.rense.com/general75/latest.htm
    Latest On Rabbi Zakheim And The Missing $2.3 Trillion

    That there above is the story. It's a conspiracy source, so it could all be BS. I don't know. But I'd look there if I wanted answers.



    I'm not one who is going to be finding out new stuff here.

    I've known about the USS Liberty since before 9/11. There was a website around back in the day called Liberty Forum. Their biggest issue was the USS Liberty. There were like 100 survivors and 100% of them all said that yes, they knew it was a US ship. It's nice that Israel is admitting it, but I always thought it was settled fact.

    Yes, Israel really loves the false flag op. Certainly, knowing that Israel intentionally attacked a US ship to get us into their war on their side tends to bias ones theories about 9/11. There really isn't the evidence for 9/11 that there is about USS Liberty.




    Quote Originally Posted by James_Madison_Lives View Post
    Correct. It's a pattern. The false flag attack is a standard tool of Israeli foreign policy, going at least as far back as the Lavon Affair when Mossad planted bombs in the American and British embassies and then fingered the Muslimh o Brotherhood. From Wiki:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavon_Affair


    The USS Liberty was another, intended to draw the US into war against Egypt in the middle of the Six Day War, but it failed when the sailors of the Liberty wouldn't let their ship sink, thus leaving witnesses. That's when the "accident" cover-up was concocted.

    Now on 9/11 anyone with a brain knows by now that 3 towers built to support five times their weight don't fall in seconds because an airplane hit them (one not even hit.) They only question remaining is WHO and WHY. The answer is in the perpetrators' own words, it's not as if they've been making any secret of their desires to overthrow Saddam and remake the map of the Middle East through years of bloody murder and regime change.

    From Project for a New American Century, "Rebuilding America's Defenses":


    Who was Project for a New American Century? It was the Neocon "crazies" in the Bush White House, Colin Powell's words, who were all ready with a plan to invade Iraq the day after 9/11, Dick Cheney, Douglas Feith, Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, Scooter Libby, Eliot Abrams, full list here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project...administration

    In 1998 Feith and Perle wrote a paper for Netantahu repeating the age-old Israeli Neocon plan to bust up the Arab states into Sunni and Shiite warring factions, exactly what is happening today:



    The paper says "an important Israeli objective." But Israel has nowhere near the land army needed to knock out Saddam and occupy Iraq. Only one country does: the US. Maybe Feith and Perle already knew the US would be in Iraq someday.

    Then confirmed Mossad agents are arrested dancing and high-fiving in NYC, filming the towers as they burned, and they are caught driving around in vans filled with explosives. But somehow it's already getting blamed on bin Laden (who denies it) and 19 Arab party boys.

    Iraq today isn't a "disaster" which is the media meme. It's exactly what was planned: a weak, divided, mess unable to oppose Israeli regional ambitions. And American boys did the dying, dying the crappiest deaths you can imagine, rolling out of Humvees screaming and on fire, where the best thing your buddies could do was let you die because of the pain you would be in for the rest of your life if you lived.

    Police scanner audio and the "dancing Israelis":



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post



    Actually there is. Check my sig. You might not agree with the conclusions of said evidence but to say it doesn't exist at this point is dishonest.




    Ummm...huh? I didn't know Ron Paul's foreign policy was dedicated to AIPAC. Seriously facts are facts and foreign policy is foreign policy. If the USS Liberty attack was deliberate, and it seems that it might have been, discussing that in no way "veers" away from Ron Paul's foreign policy.

    There is no evidence of demolitions on 9/11.

    Ron Paul's foreign policy has a strong basis on the idea of blowback being the main cause of 9/11, not 'mossad'.
    The more prohibitions you have,
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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by jonhowe View Post
    There is no evidence of demolitions on 9/11.
    Yes,, there is.

    But it is being suppressed.
    There is plenty of evidence.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
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  6. #34

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by jonhowe View Post
    There is no evidence of demolitions on 9/11.

    Exactly. Because there is an abundance of evidence of sky scrapers collapsing in free fall into its own footprint due to "fire." Including one building which was not hit by a plane.

    Oh wait..

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by James_Madison_Lives View Post
    But for that matter PressTV is no more a state run propaganda organ than American TV.
    Sorry, I keep forgetting, who runs our media? Jews? Liberals? or the government?
    pcosmar's lie : There are more votes than registered Voters..

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by jonhowe View Post
    There is no evidence of demolitions on 9/11.

    Ron Paul's foreign policy has a strong basis on the idea of blowback being the main cause of 9/11, not 'mossad'.
    I just presented to you reams of evidence that:

    - Teams of Mossad agents were confirmed and present in NYC on 9/'11, some of them filming the towers burning, high-fiving, and posing for pictures flicking cigarette lighters. Some teams were caught driving vans filled with explosives. According to police audio below one van had a mural of a plane diving into NYC on it. You can't say those Mossad guys don't have a sense of humor. From well-respected NYC newspaper the Jewish Forward, regarding just one of the teams:

    "The FBI will later conclude at least two of the five are Mossad agents and that all were on a Mossad surveillance mission."
    - They were deported by Michael Chertoff, head of the criminal division of the FBI over the objection of field agents.

    - Israeli foreign policy thinkers for decades have articulated a strategy of overthrowing Saddam, and fracturing the Middle East into warring Sunni and Shiite factions. That is exactly what is happening today, enabled by the events of 9/11. General Wes Clark even let the cat out of the bag when he said the plan was to "take out 7 countries in 5 years." They are behind scheduled only because of the unexpected ferocity of the Iraqi resistance.

    Infuential Israeli Neocon Oded Yinon, in his paper “A Strategy for Israel in the Nineteen Eighties” (1982):

    "In Iraq, a division into provinces along ethnic/religious lines as in Syria during Ottoman times is possible. So, three (or more) states will exist around the three major cities: Basra, Baghdad and Mosul, and Shi'ite areas in the south will separate from the Sunni and Kurdish north."
    Bush administration foreign policy gurus Richard Perle and Douglas Feith, in a paper they wrote for Netanyahu in 1998:
    "Israel can shape its strategic environment, in cooperation with Turkey and Jordan, by weakening, containing, and even rolling back Syria. This effort can focus on removing Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq an important Israeli strategic objective in its own right..."
    The name of that famous paper is "A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm."

    Note "the realm" to Feith and Perle, high US policy officials, refers to Israel, not the US. Feith and Perle were only two of the Project for a New American Century Neocons in perfect placement on 9/11, at the top of the Defense Department. NOTE: israel does not have the land army to "remove" Saddam from power. Whose army were Feith and Perle talking about 1n 1998? Saddam was too well-entrenched for a coup or assassination attempt, which is why Bush said there was no choice but to invade.

    Moreover, soon after 2000 the US becomes swamped with Israeli agents posing as "art students" scouting out government buildings. From the thoroughly documented site History Commons:
    January 2000: Israeli Spy Ring Begins Penetrating US

    A DEA government document later leaked to the press [Drug Enforcement Agency, 6/2001] suggests that a large Israeli spy ring starts penetrating the US from at least this time, if not earlier. This ring, which will later become popularly known as the “art student spy ring,” is later shown to have unusual connections to the events of 9/11. [Insight, 3/11/2002] READ MORE...
    9/11 is fulfilling the Israeli agenda perfectly. Iraq is not a "disaster" as the media repeats, it is a resounding success. Weak, helpless Muslim states unable to oppose Israeli hegemonic ambitions. People like Feith and Perle running the Defense Department.

    Please address these hard facts and stop saying sillly things like "there is no evidence of demoltion."

    Wes Clark: They are going to do 5 countries in 7 years:


    Police transmissions, vans full of explosives:


    The "dancing Israelis" later on an Israeli talk show, saying they were in NYC to "document the event." How did they know there was going to be an event?
    Oded Ellner


    Omer Marmari


    Kurzberg brothers in studio audience of Israeli talk show "We were there to document the event."
    Last edited by James_Madison_Lives; 11-24-2014 at 04:15 PM.

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by parocks View Post
    With all those words, you're missing

    Rabbi Dov Zakheim

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dov_S._Zakheim

    the Wikipedia doesn't cover it much, but

    1) A $#@! ton on money was discovered missing on 9/10

    2) Zakheim was in charge of that money

    3) Zakheim was involved in remote controlled planes.

    http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=43927
    DoD financial experts, Zakheim said, are making good progress reconciling the department's "lost" expenditures, trimming them from a prior estimated total of $2.3 trillion to $700 billion. And, he added, the amount continues to drop.

    And here's what the conspiracy people think about this
    http://www.rense.com/general75/latest.htm
    Latest On Rabbi Zakheim And The Missing $2.3 Trillion

    That there above is the story. It's a conspiracy source, so it could all be BS. I don't know. But I'd look there if I wanted answers.



    I'm not one who is going to be finding out new stuff here.

    I've known about the USS Liberty since before 9/11. There was a website around back in the day called Liberty Forum. Their biggest issue was the USS Liberty. There were like 100 survivors and 100% of them all said that yes, they knew it was a US ship. It's nice that Israel is admitting it, but I always thought it was settled fact.

    Yes, Israel really loves the false flag op. Certainly, knowing that Israel intentionally attacked a US ship to get us into their war on their side tends to bias ones theories about 9/11. There really isn't the evidence for 9/11 that there is about USS Liberty.
    Dov Zakheim, CFO of the Pentagon at the time $2.3 TRILLION goes missing from the Pentagon, which was announced THE DAY BEFORE 9/11, was also a member of Project for a New American Century and the inventor, through his company SPC, of "anti-hijack" software which allowed ground controllers to take control of an airliner remotely and guide it toward a target. The name of the software is FTS for Flight Terminbation System, an image from the SPC website is below.

    "SPC Flight Termination System"




    Remember Project for a New American Century is the Neocon think tank which in 1998 wished for a "new Pearl Harbor" to allow the US to overthrow Saddam.

    In 2001 George Bush lied about such technology which allowed "air traffic controllers to land distressed planes by remote control" being "far in the future." The technology had already been tested out at Halloran AFB in NM.

    This would explain how the 9/11 planes took complex, far inland flight paths, requiring sophisticated navigation, to thread a needle three times in a row. German Defense Minister Andreas Von Bulow commented on this:

    "Planning the attacks was a master deed, in technical and organizational terms. To hijack four big airliners within a few minutes and fly them into targets within a single hour and doing so on complicated flight routes! That is unthinkable, without backing from the secret apparatuses of state and industry."
    Flight paths on 9/11:


    Of course remote control technology is old. We see it in the air over Afghanistan every day, where pilots sitting in Nevada are controlling the drones. See "Who Did 9/11: Technology of Autopilot/Remote Flight. Motive, Means, Opportunity"

    Zakheim is also a hardcore Zionist whose father was a member of Irgun, the terrorist organization which bombed British targets in order to found Israel. Many think he was the mastermind in the US of 9/11.

    From History Commons:


    "A Raytheon 727 lands in New Mexico in August, 2001. [Source: Associated Press] It is reported that the US company Raytheon landed a 727 six times in a military base in New Mexico without any pilots on board. This was done to test equipment making future hijackings more difficult, by allowing ground control to take over the flying of a hijacked plane." [Associated Press, 10/2/2001; Der Spiegel (Hamburg), 10/28/2001]

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by PRB View Post
    Sorry, I keep forgetting, who runs our media? Jews? Liberals? or the government?
    Jewvermenterals!
    "One thing my years in Washington taught me is that most politicians are followers, not leaders. Therefore we should not waste time and resources trying to educate politicians. Politicians will not support individual liberty and limited government unless and until they are forced to do so by the people," says Ron Paul."

  12. #40
    USS Liberty survivors still hold a commemoration event in Washington DC every year, to which, every year, US Congressmen and Defense Department officials are invited to attend. To date, not a single congressman or DoD official has attended. The survivors have pledged to try to continue to have the ceremony each year for as long as any of them remain alive.
    Not even Ron Paul?
    Few men have virtue enough to withstand the highest bidder. ~GEORGE WASHINGTON, letter, Aug. 17, 1779

    Quit yer b*tching and whining and GET INVOLVED!!



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  14. #41

  15. #42
    The US needs to dump Israel in the worst kind of way then follow Bolivia's lead, and reclassify it as a terrorist state.

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by DFF View Post
    The US needs to dump Israel in the worst kind of way then follow Bolivia's lead, and reclassify it as a terrorist state.
    It won't happen until we start knocking off GOP congressmen in primaries, this batch kowtows to Israel. We are getting close and have good candidates - Alan Arcand, Jim Bussler, Josh Tucker, but they need to run again to close the money gap. You can't beat people with 10-1 money advantage by campaiging for 12 months before the primary, but if they build on their 2014 showings and keep right on campaigning like the last election never happened, they might. I say 2016 is when we have to get our country back or it's gone for good.

    "Congressional challengers put up fight despite incumbent money"
    Last edited by James_Madison_Lives; 11-26-2014 at 02:36 PM.

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by enhanced_deficit View Post
    Let's wait till all the facts come out.

    So far we know that Iraq War Truthers and Lavon Affair Truthers were right. If USS Liberty is confirmed by MSM as False Flag, then it would go on same list.
    I'd say when it is coming from the Jerusalem Post and the Israeli State Archives, it's confirmed.

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by James_Madison_Lives View Post
    Of course remote control technology is old. We see it in the air over Afghanistan every day, where pilots sitting in Nevada are controlling the drones.
    Since at least 1984

    The Controlled Impact Demonstration (or colloquially the Crash In the Desert) was a joint project between NASA and the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) aimed at acquiring data, as well as demonstrating and testing new technologies...

    ... The tests involved the efforts of NASA, Langley RC, Dryden RC, the FAA, and General Electric, and required more than 4 years of work before the test occurred in 1984. The aircraft was remotely controlled for the tests, and numerous test runs were undertaken prior to performing the actual impact...


    Boeing 720 flying under remote control in California circa 1984

    ...Over a series of 14 flights...the aircraft made approximately 69 approaches, to about 150 feet (46 m) above the prepared crash site, under remote control...

    On the morning of December 1, 1984, the test aircraft took off from Edwards Air Force Base, California, made a left-hand departure and climbed to an altitude of 2,300 feet (700 m). The aircraft was remotely flown by NASA research pilot Fitzhugh Fulton from the NASA Dryden Remotely Controlled Vehicle Facility.

    That was 30 years ago, 17 years before 911
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control..._Demonstration

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Peace Piper View Post
    Since at least 1984

    The Controlled Impact Demonstration (or colloquially the Crash In the Desert) was a joint project between NASA and the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) aimed at acquiring data, as well as demonstrating and testing new technologies...

    ... The tests involved the efforts of NASA, Langley RC, Dryden RC, the FAA, and General Electric, and required more than 4 years of work before the test occurred in 1984. The aircraft was remotely controlled for the tests, and numerous test runs were undertaken prior to performing the actual impact...


    Boeing 720 flying under remote control in California circa 1984

    ...Over a series of 14 flights...the aircraft made approximately 69 approaches, to about 150 feet (46 m) above the prepared crash site, under remote control...

    On the morning of December 1, 1984, the test aircraft took off from Edwards Air Force Base, California, made a left-hand departure and climbed to an altitude of 2,300 feet (700 m). The aircraft was remotely flown by NASA research pilot Fitzhugh Fulton from the NASA Dryden Remotely Controlled Vehicle Facility.

    That was 30 years ago, 17 years before 911
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control..._Demonstration

    What's amazing that, knowing not a single thing more about 9/11 than what is already on the public record, any prosecutor would already have a pretty solid case and list of suspects. How often do criminals leave written evidence that they would like to see "a new Pearl Harbor" and then be in exactly the right positions to make that Pearl Harbor happen, when it actually does?

    "Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event––like a new Pearl Harbor" - Project for a New American Century, whose members include Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Dov Zakheim, Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, Scooter Libby, Eliot Abrams,in the document Rebuilding America's Defenses. full list here.

  20. #47

  21. #48



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by enhanced_deficit View Post
    On a different p note, why free US media never talks about/honors USS Liberty heroes on its anniversaries? Without internet , many people including myself would never have even heard about it.
    For the same reason Congress gives Netanyahu 20 standing ovations. The more people know about the Liberty the More people realize Israel is a terrorist state which is sucking the US dry to fulfill its expansionist Middle East agenda.

    Trailer to The Day Israel Attacked America


  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by enhanced_deficit View Post
    Two words:
    Ferguson Grand Jury.
    Justice for 9/11 will require a true sweep of congress which will mean the appointment of committee chairs who will start calling in people like Cheney and asking why he let Flight 77 hit the Pentagon, or ask Rudy Giuliani why he ordered the destruction of the steel evidence.

  25. #51

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by enhanced_deficit View Post
    While not opposed to thorough independent investigation, I'm not convinced that 9/11 was a Lavon Affair type event based on what is reported in MSM so far.

    Canadian MP who presented 9/11 inquiry petition in House named 3rd Most Valuable Politician
    No one who fully understands what Galileo said can believe the official story, which is that zillions and zillions of tons of concrete (usually all in caps for the American dummies) drove the "plunger" faster and faster toward the ground, as it one floor collapsed on top of the next. What is wrong with that is there is no such thing as objects falling faster as they get heavier. All objects fall at the same speed, through air, regardless of weight. That's Galileo.

    The falling concrete could only have fallen much slower than free-fall speed, because of the resistance beneath it. The virtual free-fall speed is the dead giveaway. Mass can only fall as fast as something falls through thin air if it is falling...through thin air. That's what a demolition is. The structure is cut up all and once, and is pieces falling through air.

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by James_Madison_Lives View Post
    The falling concrete could only have fallen much slower than free-fall speed, because of the resistance beneath it. The virtual free-fall speed is the dead giveaway.
    I see that you say "virtual free-fall" which implies that it is not free fall. Did you measure the speed? At what speed did the building fall, and how does that compare to the collapse of other buildings?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
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  28. #54
    Lets hope that Obama doesn't call for an investigation. Then Republicans will claim the report was dem. biased and that it is false etc. etc.

    It needs to be done by a Republican Congress/Senate.
    I am more and more convinced that man is a dangerous creature and that power, whether vested in many or a few, is ever grasping, and like the grave, cries, 'Give, give.'

    Abigail Adams

  29. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    I see that you say "virtual free-fall" which implies that it is not free fall. Did you measure the speed? At what speed did the building fall, and how does that compare to the collapse of other buildings?
    You can follow a piece of the debris which was blown out and fallng through the air and see that the demolition line is approximately keeping pace with it. That is free fall speed, the speed at which an object falls through air, which is actually an acceleration of 10 meters^3 (it accelerates at a rate of ten meters per second, per second.)

    Solid steel is 8,000 times denser than air and so that is the order of magnitude by which the falling mass would have been slowed, had it been "plowing" through the frame below. Think of how fast a steel beam would be dropping to earth through a giant bottle of Prell shampoo, like that old commercial where they drop a pearl into the bottle to show how viscous it is. Steel is many times more resistant than even that.

    More notably, you can see the tower frames being cut to pieces and blown out at explosive speeds.



    Galileo demonstration



    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    how does that compare to the collapse of other buildings?
    No building in history has ever collapsed in this manner without it being a demolition, never mind 3 of them in one day. In very bad fires, parts of buildings have collapsed after raging infernoes lasting 12-20 hours, but still most of the building remains standing.

    Windsor tower, burned 20 hours



    WTC core assembly under construction
    Last edited by James_Madison_Lives; 02-03-2015 at 07:50 PM.

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by James_Madison_Lives View Post
    You can follow a piece of the debris which was blown out and fallng through the air and see that the demolition line is approximately keeping pace with it. That is free fall speed, the speed at which an object falls through air, which is actually an acceleration of 10 meters^3 (it accelerates at a rate of ten meters per second, per second.)
    So, no, and no.


    Quote Originally Posted by James_Madison_Lives View Post
    Windsor tower, burned 20 hours
    Would you care to describe what happened to the steel sections of this tower?

    Was it always as asymmetrical as it is in this picture you've linked?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.



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  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    So, no, and no.




    Would you care to describe what happened to the steel sections of this tower?

    Was it always as asymmetrical as it is in this picture you've linked?
    This looks pretty asymmetrical to me, and the partial collapse took place over the course of hours, piece by piece. Repeat after me: vertical steel support columns do not squash flat in seconds because a little kerosene splashed on them. That's all jet fuel is. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_fuel



    Timeline of Windsor partial collapse
    http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/anal...e/windsor.html
    Time Collapse Situation
    1:29 East face of the 21st floor collapsed
    1:37 South middle section of several floors above the 21st floor gradually collapsed
    1:50 Parts of floor slab with curtain walls collapsed
    2:02 Parts of floor slab with curtain walls collapsed
    2:11 Parts of floor slab with curtain walls collapsed
    2:13 Floors above about 25th floor collapsed Large collapse of middle section at about 20th floor
    2:17 Parts of floor slab with curtain walls collapsed
    2:47 Southwest corner of 1 ~ 2 floors below about 20th floor collapsed
    2:51 Southeast corner of about 18th ~ 20th floors collapsed
    3:35 South middle section of about 17th ~ 20th floors collapsed Fire broke through the Upper Technical Floor
    3:48 Fire flame spurted out below the Upper Technical Floor
    4:17 Debris on the Upper Technical Floor fell down

  33. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    I see that you say "virtual free-fall" which implies that it is not free fall. Did you measure the speed? At what speed did the building fall, and how does that compare to the collapse of other buildings?
    WTC 7 fell in 5.9 seconds. A comparable building known to have been a controlled demolition took 10 seconds. WTC 7 fell as fast, or faster, than a typical controlled demolition.

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...ight=free+fall
    9/11 Thermate experiments

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  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    WTC 7 fell in 5.9 seconds. A comparable building known to have been a controlled demolition took 10 seconds. WTC 7 fell as fast, or faster, than a typical controlled demolition.

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...ight=free+fall
    Yes, because it was a very expensive, discreet and highly advanced controlled demolition.
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  35. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by James_Madison_Lives View Post
    This looks pretty asymmetrical to me, and the partial collapse took place over the course of hours, piece by piece. Repeat after me: vertical steel support columns do not squash flat in seconds because a little kerosene splashed on them.
    The steel sections of the building weakened and collapsed due to the heat of the fire? I'd heard that wasn't possible.


    Was this building supported by a distributed series of vertical supports and a stiff outer skin?


    Is there a reason that you chose that view of the building rather than something like this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

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