Poll : 75% of Tennesseans support medical marijuana

[jmdrake]

It's time for a ballot measure. Should have had one this last time.

http://www.johnsoncitypress.com/arti...a-in-tennessee

[Matt Collins]

A ballot referendum is a good way to lose. It's actually much easier to convince/pressure the legislature to do it.

[jbauer]

Medical? How about we just legalize it. Or do you want me to go into the doctor to get a BS script so I can get my brownies?

[specsaregood]

Medical? How about we just legalize it. Or do you want me to go into the doctor to get a BS script so I can get my brownies?

They want you to have to go through some professional mafia. I mean doctors gotta eat right?

[jmdrake]

A ballot referendum is a good way to lose. It's actually much easier to convince/pressure the legislature to do it.

Matt, I know you have a hard on against ballot measures but that actual numbers show you are wrong. Marijuana ballot measures were hugely successful last go round including in red states. Meanwhile medical marijuana is bottled up in the TN state legislature with no possibility of passage. And contrary to your false "ballot measures increase taxes" thesis, in Tennessee a ballot measure against a state income tax passed.

[jmdrake]

Medical? How about we just legalize it. Or do you want me to go into the doctor to get a BS script so I can get my brownies?

The poll numbers for total marijuana legalization isn't there for Tennessee at the moment. If Tennesseans see that the world doesn't come to an end with medical marijuana they might go for complete legalization. But this will only happen through a ballot measure. It will never be brought up with Tennessee's republican controlled legislature.

Edit: From the article itself

A bill to legalize marijuana for medical use in Tennessee stalled in the Tennessee General Assembly earlier this year. Even so, proponents of medical marijuana hope passage of the measure to study cannabis oil will open the door to medical marijuana in this state. A recent Middle Tennessee State University poll found 75 percent of state residents surveyed agree with allowing marijuana use for medical purposes.

So Matt your methodology has already lost on this issue! It's time to try something else. Doing the same thing over and over again that doesn't work is the definition of stupid.

[Matt Collins]

Matt, I know you have a hard on against ballot measures but that actual numbers show you are wrong. Marijuana ballot measures were hugely successful last go round including in red states. Meanwhile medical marijuana is bottled up in the TN state legislature with no possibility of passage. And contrary to your false "ballot measures increase taxes" thesis, in Tennessee a ballot measure against a state income tax passed.

But this will only happen through a ballot measure. It will never be brought up with Tennessee's republican controlled legislature.

Did that poll include only likely voters? And did it measure what would happen when people like the Eagle Forum and pharmaceutical companies start to spend a ton of money on marketing to counter it by confusing the voters or spreading FUD?


Probably not to both.


It is much easier and less expensive, and more likely to pass, if you work it through the legislature than through a ballot measure. Ballot measures are high risk, because if they fail then the legislature has an excuse not to take it up.

[Matt Collins]

A bill to legalize marijuana for medical use in Tennessee stalled in the Tennessee General Assembly earlier this year.

It failed because those working to push it don't know what they are doing and are highly unorganized. A focused and concise effort by activists who know what they are doing could push it forward.

[jmdrake]

Did that poll include only likely voters? And did it measure what would happen when people like the Eagle Forum and pharmaceutical companies start to spend a ton of money on marketing to counter it by confusing the voters or spreading FUD?

Probably not to both.

Matt, you lose credibility when you place great faith in polls that back up your positions without having any information about the poll itself (you did that recently) while you heap all kinds of made up skepticism on polls that don't agree with your position. Do you think the Eagle Forum and Big Pharma lack the resources to lobby state legislators? Hint. They don't. And amazingly those who like tax increases weren't able to "FUD" their way out of an amendment banning a state income tax from passage.

It is much easier and less expensive, and more likely to pass, if you work it through the legislature than through a ballot measure. Ballot measures are high risk, because if they fail then the legislature has an excuse not to take it up.

It failed because those working to push it don't know what they are doing and are highly unorganized.

Okay. You were working on legislative issues in Tennessee at the time the marijuana bill stalled. So either you don't sufficiently care about this issue or your own methods don't work as well as you'd like to believe. The anti tax ballot measure passed. The anti abortion ballot measure passed on much slimmer poll numbers and with the other side running its own "FUD". Ballot measures work whether you are willing to accept this fact or not.

[Matt Collins]

Do you think the Eagle Forum and Big Pharma lack the resources to lobby state legislators? Hint. They don't.

But they don't play hardball politics.... if the pro-pot group were able to threaten the re-election of anyone who voted against them, then they could control the legislature on the issue. A politician will do whatever you want if you are able to get them unelected and they know it.

Okay. You were working on legislative issues in Tennessee at the time the marijuana bill stalled. So either you don't sufficiently care about this issue or your own methods don't work as well as you'd like to believe.

it takes multiple cycles to get the job done. It's not a 2 or even 4 year effort most of the time.

Ballot measures work whether you are willing to accept this fact or not.

They are unreliable and unpredictable, and expensive. It's much easier to pressure a few legislators into doing what you want than to try and convince 3 million voters in the state to support something you want supported.

[JK/SEA]

But they don't play hardball politics.... if the pro-pot group were able to threaten the re-election of anyone who voted against them, then they could control the legislature on the issue. A politician will do whatever you want if you are able to get them unelected and they know it.




it takes multiple cycles to get the job done. It's not a 2 or even 4 year effort most of the time.

They are unreliable and unpredictable, and expensive. It's much easier to pressure a few legislators into doing what you want than to try and convince 3 million voters in the state to support something you want supported.

lol...

pure bull$#@!.

the only power people have is to come at these oppressive legislators with a hammer. Usually an initiative smacks them in the side of the head...

are you suggesting strongly worded letters and phone calls will do the trick?..geez...what crap.

google pot laws in Washington and Colorado for any questions bubba.

[jmdrake]

But they don't play hardball politics.... if the pro-pot group were able to threaten the re-election of anyone who voted against them, then they could control the legislature on the issue. A politician will do whatever you want if you are able to get them unelected and they know it.

Great. Take the ball and run with it. Let's see how far you get. Like I said, either you don't care about this issue (shame on you) or your methods aren't as rock solid as you think.

it takes multiple cycles to get the job done. It's not a 2 or even 4 year effort most of the time.

The recent marijuana ballot measures worked in one cycle. If this gets put on the ballot it will likely pass. History is on my side on this whether you are willing to admit it or not.

They are unreliable and unpredictable, and expensive. It's much easier to pressure a few legislators into doing what you want than to try and convince 3 million voters in the state to support something you want supported.

Can you cite a single republican controlled state legislature that has passed a medical marijuana bill? Until you can, you are blowing smoke.

[NewRightLibertarian]

A ballot referendum is a good way to lose. It's actually much easier to convince/pressure the legislature to do it.

I dunno if it's a 'good way to lose' but it certainly takes much more time, money, manpower, etc. to get a ballot referendum going than pressuring the legislature.

[jmdrake]

lol...

pure bull$#@!.

the only power people have is to come at these oppressive legislators with a hammer. Usually an initiative smacks them in the side of the head...

are you suggesting strongly worded letters and phone calls will do the trick?..geez...what crap.

google pot laws in Washington and Colorado for any questions bubba.

There is an old saying. When your only tool is a hammer everything looks like a nail. Matt has had some success with the methods he uses. But those were on bills where there was overlap between Tea Party and libertarian types. A DNA police state measure comes immediately to mind. But medical marijuana is a different coalition and you're not going to build is using typical CFL "work within the GOP" tactics. This is one of those issues where, with a Republican dominated legislature, the typical "hammer" method just isn't going to work. Sure, liberty types can call their legislators in support of medical marijuana. And as soon as the Eagle Forum gets wind of this, they can mount a stronger campaign against it. The progressives in the state, are unlikely to join in the CFL. And republicans are unlikely to be afraid of a lot of pro marijuana phone calls when they know they could likely be coming from outside their district. The "hammer" method works best if the legislator is convinced that those pushing the idea really represent his constituency.

[jmdrake]

I dunno if it's a 'good way to lose' but it certainly takes much more time, money, manpower, etc. to get a ballot referendum going than pressuring the legislature.

On this issue the "pressure your legislator" has a proven track record of failure at least in Tennessee.

[thoughtomator]

Collins, you're full of it. The only way legalization has occurred anywhere is via referendum. When you can demonstrate it being done via legislature, then you can assert that it's the better method and maybe there will be some argument to be had.

[NewRightLibertarian]

Collins, you're full of it. The only way legalization has occurred anywhere is via referendum. When you can demonstrate it being done via legislature, then you can assert that it's the better method and maybe there will be some argument to be had.

Lots of states have passed medical marijuana or decrim through the legislature though.

On this issue the "pressure your legislator" has a proven track record of failure at least in Tennessee.

That may be the case, but keep trying. This is a popular issue and eventually they'll have to cave. Ballot initiatives (except for the states where a bill to amend the state constitution can be proposed and if passed, it goes to the voters) are usually a waste of time, money and resources. It'd be good if a big money donor or organization came in and funded one though.

[jmdrake]

Collins, you're full of it. The only way legalization has occurred anywhere is via referendum. When you can demonstrate it being done via legislature, then you can assert that it's the better method and maybe there will be some argument to be had.

Actually no. Of the 23 states which have legalized, 13 have been through the legislature.

http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/v...ourceID=000881

That said, all 13 have been states where both houses are dominated by democrats. Tennessee both houses are dominated by republicans. The only way TN gets legalization other than through referendum is to start campaigning for democrats or actually getting libertarians elected. The GOP is simply out of touch on this issue.

[jmdrake]

Lots of states have passed medical marijuana or decrim through the legislature though.

All have been dominated by democrats in both houses of the legislature though. There has never been a state where republicans controlled either chamber and legalization has passed. And it will never happen in our lifetime. I'm just being real.

That may be the case, but keep trying. This is a popular issue and eventually they'll have to cave. Ballot initiatives (except for the states where a bill to amend the state constitution can be proposed and if passed, it goes to the voters) are usually a waste of time, money and resources. It'd be good if a big money donor or organization came in and funded one though.

Tennessee just passed a constitutional amendment through ballot initiative so I guess Tennessee is one of those states where, according to you, ballot initiatives are not a waste of time. And since when did we start worrying about wasting money? Hello? RP 2008? RP 2012?

[NewRightLibertarian]

Tennessee just passed a constitutional amendment through ballot initiative so I guess Tennessee is one of those states where, according to you, ballot initiatives are not a waste of time. And since when did we start worrying about wasting money? Hello? RP 2008? RP 2012?

If the ballot initiative went through the state legislature first before it went to the voters, that might be a way to do it. But if you have a legislature full of $#@!s, they probably wouldn't even pass that to let the voters decide.

I know in Michigan there are activists working on decrim initiatives in local cities to try and soften up the laws before we go to full legalization or full decrim. That might be a good way to get started if the laws in Tennessee permit that sort of thing.

[jmdrake]

If the ballot initiative went through the state legislature first before it went to the voters, that might be a way to do it. But if you have a legislature full of $#@!s, they probably wouldn't even pass that to let the voters decide.

I know in Michigan there are activists working on decrim initiatives in local cities to try and soften up the laws before we go to full legalization or full decrim. That might be a good way to get started if the laws in Tennessee permit that sort of thing.

It looks like you have to go through the legislature in TN first to even get started on a ballot measure.

http://ballotpedia.org/Tennessee_2014_ballot_measures

That means TN is effectively screwed.

[thoughtomator]

Actually no. Of the 23 states which have legalized, 13 have been through the legislature.

http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/v...ourceID=000881

That said, all 13 have been states where both houses are dominated by democrats. Tennessee both houses are dominated by republicans. The only way TN gets legalization other than through referendum is to start campaigning for democrats or actually getting libertarians elected. The GOP is simply out of touch on this issue.

Many of these states have LINO (legalization in name only), such as New Jersey. That satisfies no one, and does not appear to be a stepping stone towards full legalization. Of the states with actual legalization, there are only two, and both were referendum-driven.

[jkob]

Referendum is the only way this will pass in Tennessee. We passed medical out here in Arizona by a narrow margin thru referendum and now we're targeted for full legalization in 2016, this wouldn't happen in the legislature for the next 20-30 years or more otherwise. You have to get the ball rolling, all the monied interests working against a referendum will work against it in the legislative process as well. It's better to make your case straight to the people than a bunch of establishment politicians many of home have personal monied interest in continuing prohibition.

[Occam's Banana]

LOL. Don't you guys understand? Going the populist "ballot initiative" route does not provide the "professionally trained campaign operatives" who attach themselves to some legislator or "in-house" legislative effort with sufficient opportunities to advance their careers and accrue personal influence ...

[Matt Collins]

the only power people have is to come at these oppressive legislators with a hammer. Usually an initiative smacks them in the side of the head...

are you suggesting strongly worded letters and phone calls will do the trick?..geez...what crap.

Yes, and when you can threaten the election of a politician, then you are able to make them do whatever you want.

google pot laws in Washington and Colorado for any questions bubba.

The demographics are pre-disposed to it...

[Matt Collins]

It looks like you have to go through the legislature in TN first to even get started on a ballot measure.

http://ballotpedia.org/Tennessee_2014_ballot_measures

That means TN is effectively screwed.

No it means that wasting time on a ballot issue is a waste of time. It is easier to pass it legislatively as I have been saying.

[specsaregood]

LOL. Don't you guys understand? Going the populist "ballot initiative" route does not provide the "professionally trained campaign operatives" who attach themselves to some legislator or "in-house" legislative effort with sufficient opportunities to advance their careers and accrue personal influence ...

Yeah, but often you can get paid to collect signatures for the effort. But I guess signature gatherer doesn't look fancy on a resume.

[jmdrake]

No it means that wasting time on a ballot issue is a waste of time. It is easier to pass it legislatively as I have been saying.

You were saying that based on the false claim that in general ballot issues don't work, not based on the reality that Tennessee is rigged not to allow grassroots ballot initiatives in the first place. That said, this will never get through the TN legislature. Not unless some republicans are defeated first. The GOP in Tennessee are drug war hawks. No amount of "hammer tactics" is going to change that.

[Matt Collins]

Great. Take the ball and run with it. Let's see how far you get. Like I said, either you don't care about this issue (shame on you) or your methods aren't as rock solid as you think.

I'm busy with other things at the moment. And there is lower hanging fruit in TN that would be a quicker and easier win (guns, taxes, anti-abortion come to mind)

Can you cite a single republican controlled state legislature that has passed a medical marijuana bill? Until you can, you are blowing smoke.

Collins, you're full of it. The only way legalization has occurred anywhere is via referendum. When you can demonstrate it being done via legislature, then you can assert that it's the better method and maybe there will be some argument to be had.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/the-texas-sharpshooter


Just because it hasn't happened before doesn't mean it can't. The methods I describe work on every issue, if they are implemented.

[Matt Collins]

That said, this will never get through the TN legislature. Not unless some republicans are defeated first. The GOP in Tennessee are drug war hawks. No amount of "hammer tactics" is going to change that.

You just contradicted yourself.... we have to get a ew unelected to know that anyone who votes against us loses their seat. That's how it is done.