The case for and against Jesse Benton's professional campaign involvement

[specsaregood]

Can you not see you've sold out to the very.same.mindset that we're all here to work against? That's what makes you so frustrating!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narciss...ality_disorder

Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) is a Cluster B personality disorder[1] in which a person is excessively preoccupied with personal adequacy, power, prestige and vanity, mentally unable to see the destructive damage they are causing to themselves and to others in the process.

Symptoms
People who are diagnosed with a narcissistic personality disorder are characterized by exaggerated feelings of self-importance. They have a sense of entitlement and demonstrate grandiosity in their beliefs and behavior. They have a strong need for admiration, but lack feelings of empathy.

B. Pathological personality traits in the following domain:
1.Antagonism, characterized by:
a. Grandiosity: Feelings of entitlement, either overt or covert; self-centeredness; firmly holding to the belief that one is better than others; condescending toward others.
b. Attention seeking: Excessive attempts to attract and be the focus of the attention of others; admiration seeking.

Symptoms of this disorder, as defined by the DSM-IV-TR, include:[1]
Expects to be recognized as superior and special, without superior accomplishments
Expects constant attention, admiration and positive reinforcement from others
Envies others and believes others envy him/her
Is preoccupied with thoughts and fantasies of great success, enormous attractiveness, power, intelligence
Lacks the ability to empathize with the feelings or desires of others
Is arrogant in attitudes and behavior
Has expectations of special treatment that are unrealistic

Treatment
It is unusual for people to seek therapy for NPD. This is partly due to the NPD sufferers’ not believing they have a problem. Most, if not all, are unable to see the destructive damage they are causing to themselves and to others and usually only seek treatment at the insistence of relatives and friends.

[jmdrake]

Rand Paul dropped Chris Hightower in 2009 for less. See: http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefi...auls-spokesman I honestly can't see Jesse having any significant role at this point. When the campaign staff become part of the news cycle, that's a problem. And Benton is already part of the news cycle.

[Bryan]

We need to stop talking about Tom Woods. We are supposed to be talking about Jesse Benton and how Jesse Benton handled the situation.

FWIW, I do remember Tom posting a video that was critical of the campaign (IIRC) to which he pulled within hours. That said, Crashland is right, what would be relevant here is how Jesse managed any such situation. For the record, I am a huge Tom Woods supporter.

[jjdoyle]

FWIW, I do remember Tom posting a video that was critical of the campaign (IIRC) to which he pulled within hours. That said, Crashland is right, what would be relevant here is how Jesse managed any such situation. For the record, I am a huge Tom Woods supporter.

Well, I would imagine there would have been a forum thread started with it in it at the time, and a time stamp would be on it and even if the video was pulled the embed of it would still show up and just display something like, "Video no longer available". Unless of course that thread was deleted.

I did a google search, and found one RPF thread that Matt Collins had actually started in regards to some Tom Woods stuff, but it wasn't about this. It was actually just a regular thread about another post/topic by Tom Woods.

For the record, are you a Jesse Benton supporter?

[ghengis86]

Again, another ESTABLISHMENT tactic.

It's ok for Jesse to air grievances about Tom because Jesse is "on the inside". Just like it's ok for the establishment to hate the grassroots and publish their grievances, but the grassroots are expected to hold their tongue because "the democrat is worse".

Can you not see you've sold out to the very.same.mindset that we're all here to work against? That's what makes you so frustrating!

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...02#post5702602

Matt and Jesse's definition of winning and what one must do to 'win' is exactly opposite of what the grassroot's definition of 'winning' is and what one must do to 'win'

I think that is the root of the issue and why there will never be reconciliation between the 'official campaigns' and the grassroots, no matter how many Benton's and Collins' and FEC investigations come and go. The seeds were most likely sewn between 2008 and 2010, as the power of the grassroots was too much for the establishment types to let alone, as they sought to co-opt that power and attempt to use it to further their own ends. I can be honest to myself and just deal with it, so long as the Ron Paul Inc. people are honest too and not try to be something their not.

[green73]

I've been told that a post of mine has been deleted in this thread. Is this true?

[newbitech]

Jesse Benton has contributed financially to Ted Cruz for 1000 in 2012.


Search for Benton, Jesse

http://www.politicalmoneyline.com/tr...or.aspx?td=1_0

[Bryan]

Well, I would imagine there would have been a forum thread started with it in it at the time, and a time stamp would be on it and even if the video was pulled the embed of it would still show up and just display something like, "Video no longer available". Unless of course that thread was deleted.

I did a google search, and found one RPF thread that Matt Collins had actually started in regards to some Tom Woods stuff, but it wasn't about this. It was actually just a regular thread about another post/topic by Tom Woods.

Good point, I did some searching and didn't find anything. I should qualify that I don't remember when this was, but I do remember it. I don't remember if he called anyone out by name.

For the record, are you a Jesse Benton supporter?

I have not invested time to draw any serious conclusions but I understand a lot of the criticism. I avoid drawing conclusions unless there is a specific and functional reason to do so as conclusions require lots of data and are drawn to support a specific decision at a specific time. That said, I do not think his text message to Peter Schiff regarding Paul Fest was appropriate. I did briefly talk with Jesse in 2008 a day or two before the RFTR but it was pretty inconsequential.

I've been told that a post of mine has been deleted in this thread. Is this true?

Let's please keep things on-topic. From the OP:

Discussion ground rules:
* The site guidelines apply, please re-read them: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/content.php?1989
* On-topic discussion is strictly limited to positives and negatives to Jesse Benton's professional services and his performance history. Off-topic comments will be deleted.
* Any attacks against Jesse's character are not allowed, stick to issues of Jesse's professional performance. Anything that can be legally viewed as slander or a false attack on Jesse's reputation will not be tolerated.
* Cite sources for all information. If the information is just that "someone told me", that's fine, but state it as such. Discussion on the validity of sources is on-topic.
* Let people draw their own conclusions, there is no value in trying to force yours on others. You must educate people to that point.

Thank you.

[newbitech]

I've heard these things.

Benton was never a part of any campaign until he hooked up with Ron Paul's granddaughter.

supposedly Kent Snyder said of hiring Benton in 2007,

"He had no knowledge of Ron Paul, he was unemployed and affordable."

http://www.scribd.com/doc/93961174/Who-is-Jesse-Benton

[CPUd]

Jesse Benton has contributed financially to Ted Cruz for 1000 in 2012.


Search for Benton, Jesse

http://www.politicalmoneyline.com/tr...or.aspx?td=1_0

This would be during the time when Ron Paul endorsed Cruz over Dewhurst.

[newbitech]

anyone want to bump this? http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...Seehusen-et-al

It's probably relevant somehow to this discussion since Benton is credited for his work with online grassroots.

[invisible]

I have not invested time to draw any serious conclusions but I understand a lot of the criticism. I avoid drawing conclusions unless there is a specific and functional reason to do so as conclusions require lots of data and are drawn to support a specific decision at a specific time. That said, I do not think his text message to Peter Schiff regarding Paul Fest was appropriate. I did briefly talk with Jesse in 2008 a day or two before the RFTR but it was pretty inconsequential.

I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one who has remained neutral, and feels that they don't have all of the required data to reach a conclusion. As I've said, the argument against benton is pretty convincing, but I still have yet to hear any sort of logical argument in favor of him - that doesn't mean one does not exist, though, since it obviously does (as indicated by his continued involvement since 2008).

[Champ]

Jesse Benton on Rand Paul 2016 campaign staff? Please, don't do it.

If you want to pit Tom Woods integrity and transparency against Jesse Benton, I will take Tom Woods 100 times out of 100.

Anyone that was paying even a small amount of attention during 2011 and 2012 knows what Jesse Benton is.

[Demigod]

Lets play a game, I'll go first:

Add something to this list that you don't like about Jesse Benton

1) He's Facing Federal Election Fraud Charges
2) He's defended by Matt Collins.
3.Born in 1977 ,Benton's political career began in 2000 when he worked with the Republican National Committee.Basically straight from college into politics not a single day of work.And he earns paychecks in the 100K range from family members campaign funds on merit alone of course.

Because nothing says fiscal conservative as much as nepotism.

[Jeremy]

What if he manages the Senate campaign? Someone has to do that.

[newbitech]

What if he manages the Senate campaign? Someone has to do that.

parallel campaigns headquartered in Louisville is already going to be controversial. May as well let Benton march on over there with Aqua Buddha in one hand a confederate flag in the other, some freshly printed newsletters tucked under arm, quoting the entire next season of house of cards in his arrival speech while offering Nascar drivers $10,000 every time they mention Stand with Rand on tv.

[acptulsa]

Perhaps Matt Collins can PM the screenshots to someone like Gunny with the understanding that they won't be posted publicly.

Why?

Tom isn't applying for any jobs.

Just because Collins is trying to make this thread about Tom Woods doesn't mean his name is in the thread title. We all know Collins would deflect if he had to deflect the blame onto his own man. He doesn't seem to be able to refrain from deflecting. But about all that Top Secret Ancient History that Collins alleges he has will tell us is whether Benton failed to make a molehill out of a mountain or succeeded in making a mountain out of a molehill.

[Matt Collins]

Anyway, every candidate gets reams and reams of unsolicited public criticism all the time from people who don't know what they are talking about, from random people online, to talking heads on TV, and from supporters and detractors.

That's fine and is to be expected, but when someone who is seen as a leader of the movement (Tom) openly and publicly criticizes the campaign it actively undermines the campaign effort. Plus it is in poor taste and rude.

Also, just because someone does not do something for a living doesn't mean that every opinion they have about that thing is automatically invalid.

As I have written before, some of the things Tom suggested was pretty good, some were outright childish. But why didn't Tom just pick up the phone and talk to Ron about it instead of going public? Not only was it arrogant but it was insulting too.

Again, I am sure when you are in a position like Benton's, you receive all sorts of unsolicited criticism all the time, and some of it is bound to be bad criticism and some of it is bound to be good criticism. It's not a black and white issue. But I would bet a lot of money that in 2016, there is going to be a hell of a lot more unsolicited criticism to the Rand Paul campaign. Do we really want Benton handling it the same way he did in Ron Paul 2012?

Nothing wrong with criticism (although people who don't know what they are talking about shouldn't offer it), but when it is from someone on our own team, it should be kept private and not posted all over the Internet for everyone to see.

[Matt Collins]

Did Tom attack the candidate?

How in the world was a possible attack against Jesse Benton (not substantiated) damaging to anyone except Jesse Benton?

Because undermining the campaign hurts the candidate. Duh...

[Matt Collins]

It's ok for Jesse to air grievances about Tom because Jesse is "on the inside".

Did Jesse air grievances publicly about Tom Woods? I don't recall that he did.

Just like it's ok for the establishment to hate the grassroots and publish their grievances, but the grassroots are expected to hold their tongue because "the democrat is worse".

Uh no, that's not how it works, nice try.

[Carlybee]

Because undermining the campaign hurts the candidate. Duh...

If that's the case then the things Jesse did to undermine the campaign pretty much drove the nail in the coffin.

[jjdoyle]

Did Jesse air grievances publicly about Tom Woods? I don't recall that he did.

Was Tom Woods the one in charge of a campaign that lied to supporters for months wasting their money, and more importantly their time? I don't recall that he was. IMO....

Jesse Benton is unfit to be near Rand in 2016, because he has (mod edit)
Jesse Benton is unfit to be near Rand in 2016, because under his management Ron Paul got fewer votes than RICK SANTORUM in 2012.
Jesse Benton is unfit to be near Rand in 2016, because under his management Ron Paul got fewer votes than NEWT GINGRICH in 2012.
Jesse Benton showed in 2012, he didn't know how to tailor a political message to HELP HIS CANDIDATE WIN.
When in charge, Jesse Benton didn't know how to guide the energy of the grassroots, and through his own actions and the actions of Ron Paul 2012, and instead was busy spraying Roundup everywhere trying to kill the grassroots.
Under Jesse Benton's leadership, Ron Paul 2012 wasted MILLIONS OF SUPPORTERS' DOLLARS and more importantly (and unfortunately) WASTED MONTHS OF THEIR LIVES.
Under Jesse Benton's leadership, Ron Paul 2012's official website was allowed to try, but FAILED, to defend an endorsement of Mitt Romney. A big stick in the eye to actual liberty activists and grassroots supporters that had given their own money and time to try and GET RON PAUL ELECTED.

But, as is evidenced by everything we know, Ron Paul 2012 wasn't trying to win the nomination from February 2012 to May 2012, and instead was simply staying in the race to try and help Mitt Romney win the nomination smoothly, and to try and get Mitt Romney to pickup some Ron Paul supporters, which is why the RNC allowed a Ron Paul tribute video, Rand Paul a speech, and Jack Hunter's garbage use of RonPaul2012.com to defend a Mitt Romney endorsement.

[acptulsa]

Just like it's ok for the establishment to hate the grassroots and publish their grievances, but the grassroots are expected to hold their tongue because "the democrat is worse".

Uh no, that's not how it works, nice try.

You should know. You've tried and failed often enough. Wish I had a nickel for each post you've made in an attempt to nag us into behaving just like good little sycophant elephants.

Did Jesse air grievances publicly about Tom Woods? I don't recall that he did.

What? We're back on topic? Sort of?

Well, then. I've never known someone to go public with information from within an organization unless they have tried to get the issue in question addressed by people from up the food chain within the organization. Whistleblowers generally at least try to figure out who within will want to do the right thing before doing an end run outside the hierarchy.

Now, most of us are inclined to give Ron Paul benefit of our doubts. So, the question becomes, why didn't Tom Woods 'pick up the phone' and call Ron Paul? Was Benton running a Byzantine labyrinth of compartmentalization? Because I'm sorry, Matt, but the fact that you suggested that Woods should have 'picked up the phone' is not proof to me that he even had Ron Paul's phone number.

In any case, I don't see how this could possibly be an equal enough relationship to make judging the two men by the same yardstick viable. If an official of the administration goes public, he or she is being a whistleblower, doing an end run around Obama, and likely reacting to a lack of two way communication from the top down, and maybe causing harm because there might be reasons he or she isn't privy to why secrecy is necessary. If Obama goes public, he's running a transparent administration (for a change). Completely different situations. So, no, of course Benton didn't go public. That's just silly.

I think we'd be unwise to tap people who are outside the machine, then fail to give them room for a 'learning curve'. Sometimes you just have to learn what not to do before you can learn what to do. And the experienced people in this field are likely to be as resistant to the 'outside the box' tactics that we used to successfully break through the 'He Who Must Not Be Named' wall we encountered, or are likely to 'owe' the status quo so many 'favors' that we can't trust the person not to torpedo us from the inside, or both. But if we limit ourselves to outsiders, we have to give these outsiders time and room to prove to us that they're learning from their inevitable missteps.

Is this so with Benton? Is it within the realm of a 'learning curve misstep' to do something that lands the campaign in court? Is the court appearance strictly the result of a frameup?

I think we need a lot more transparency in order to make a rational decision on the matter. But, you know, the lack of transparency in and of itself is an indication of something.

Maybe it's impossible for Rand Paul and Benton to coexist in the same extended family without Benton being considered a 'consultant'. Maybe if they didn't do that, the two men can't even enjoy Carol's turkey from the same table. But as things stand, I'd be dismayed to see Benton take any more active a role in Rand's campaign than that.

[CaptUSA]

Bottom line, Matt...

Can you say, without a doubt, that Benton won't become a topic of the campaign? Can you say that Rand won't have to defend him in some regard? Can you say that Rand won't have to cut ties in an embarrassing kerfuffle? Are you willing to put your entire career on that line? (This seems to be a big concern of yours.)

Past history should give you pause. Obviously, you can't be 100% sure about anyone, but Benton has a track record. That's what concerns many of us - not this petty personality conflict in which you want us to engage. Most of us don't care about your internal soap opera. We don't want the campaign to get derailed by answering questions about this guy. We'd like to focus on the issues because that's where we win.

[acptulsa]

Was Tom Woods the one in charge of a campaign that lied to supporters for months wasting their money, and more importantly their time? I don't recall that he was. IMO....

Yeah, well, Collins doesn't know how not to deflect.

Jesse Benton is unfit to be near Rand in 2016, because he has Matt Collins defending him.

Now, now. Rand Paul has Collins defending him, too, from time to time. That simply isn't Rand Paul's fault.

Jesse Benton is unfit to be near Rand in 2016, because under his management Ron Paul got fewer votes than RICK SANTORUM in 2012.
Jesse Benton is unfit to be near Rand in 2016, because under his management Ron Paul got fewer votes than NEWT GINGRICH in 2012.

You know, Rupert Murdoch had a little something to do with this as well.

Jesse Benton showed in 2012, he didn't know how to tailor a political message to HELP HIS CANDIDATE WIN.

And so did Ron Paul, for that matter. I'm very proud to say Ron Paul picked up a tip from me, or from us (I'm the first person I saw doing it) when he challenged the other candidates to a bicycle race in response to questions about his age. I wish he had acted on more of the good ideas we threw his direction gratis. But in the end, those were Ron Paul's campaigns, and he was part of the reason for their failure.

When in charge, Jesse Benton didn't know how to guide the energy of the grassroots, and through his own actions and the actions of Ron Paul 2012, and instead was busy spraying Roundup everywhere trying to kill the grassroots.

Not that anyone did, or even knew how to ride herd on us cats. But you're right. We didn't even get the impression that he was trying. At least Ron Paul himself showed us a modicum of appreciation and affection.

(Mod edit)

Bottom line, Matt...

Can you say, without a doubt, that Benton won't become a topic of the campaign? Can you say that Rand won't have to defend him in some regard? Can you say that Rand won't have to cut ties in an embarrassing kerfuffle? Are you willing to put your entire career on that line? (This seems to be a big concern of yours.)

Past history should give you pause. Obviously, you can't be 100% sure about anyone, but Benton has a track record. That's what concerns many of us - not this petty personality conflict in which you want us to engage. Most of us don't care about your internal soap opera. We don't want the campaign to get derailed by answering questions about this guy. We'd like to focus on the issues because that's where we win.

The Bottom Line. This and the fact that Benton's learning curve leeway is all used up and I'm having a hard time figuring out what, if anything, he has learned.

[jjdoyle]

So, your suggestion is we cry over spilled milk until Kingdom Come. No. Sorry.

You've already proven yourself to be a (mod edit)

Jesse Benton was part of a campaign that raised more money than the campaigns of Rick Santorum and Newt Gingrich, and still couldn't win a single state's popular vote. If Jesse Benton couldn't figure out a strategy to win, he shouldn't have wasted months of time and millions of dollars of the grassroots supporters helping Mitt Romney win the nomination.

[acptulsa]

You've already proven yourself to be a (mod edit)

Jesse Benton was part of a campaign that raised more money than the campaigns of Rick Santorum and Newt Gingrich, and still couldn't win a single state's popular vote. If Jesse Benton couldn't figure out a strategy to win, he shouldn't have wasted months of time and millions of dollars of the grassroots supporters helping Mitt Romney win the nomination.

We figured out how to win. All we had to do was take over Fox News.

Unfortunately, we never figured out how to do that.

(Mod edit)

So, can you give us a good reason why we should cry over spilled milk until Kingdom Come? Other than you have this stuck in your craw, and want to vent about it forever, which is not a good reason.

Edit: If, as has been alleged, only the King's Men are allowed to contribute nothing to the discussion but rants and invasive insults, and do it without repercussions, then I guess we know who the King's Man here really is...

[CaptUSA]

It's a fact you're a (mod edit)

Uncalled for. Mods will deal with this.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/content.php?1989




Mod note- yes we will, please keep on topic, this isn't about other members. Attack bad information or analysis, not people.

[jjdoyle]

Uncalled for. Mods will deal with this.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/content.php?1989

No, it's actually 100% fact based on his posts yesterday where he repeatedly lied, over and over and over. Blatantly.

We figured out how to win. All we had to do was take over Fox News.

Unfortunately, we never figured out how to do that.

(Mod edit)

So, can you give us a good reason why we should cry over spilled milk until Kingdom Come? Other than you have this stuck in your craw, and want to vent about it forever, which is not a good reason.

Edit: If, as has been alleged, only the King's Men are allowed to contribute nothing to the discussion but rants and invasive insults, and do it without repercussions, then I guess we know who the King's Man here really is...

(mod edit)

[Bryan]

If you see someone as not being honest or wrong then post the countering facts that show that, do not just name call. Thank you.