I don't get that article. Was that guy trying to push the idea that Ron Paul was supposed to keep trying to get the GOP nomination as of May 16, 2012?Originally Posted by presence
Jesse Benton Resigns From McConnell Team Amid Payola ...
libertycrier.com/jesse-benton-resigns-mcconnell-team-amid-payola-scandal
Aug 30, 2014 - Paid endorsements, cover-ups, lying to investigators
'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988
Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation
'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3
Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.
...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...
No, the list they used was the one from the webpage where people offered to be a delegate. I did call those. but there were mutiple duplicates and they gave it like 1 week before the deadline.
I understand not giving just anyone the list - but they could have utilized resources better or delegate responsibility. if this is not the fault of a campaign manager then who should we blame?
Few men have virtue enough to withstand the highest bidder. ~GEORGE WASHINGTON, letter, Aug. 17, 1779
Quit yer b*tching and whining and GET INVOLVED!!
HA! Not even close.
__________________________________________________ ________________
"A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst
It is not necessary to show all the dirty details in order to know that this happened.
__________________________________________________ ________________
"A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst
Shouldn't someone who has the title of "netroots coordinator" at least be liked by those he is tasked with coordinating?
Few men have virtue enough to withstand the highest bidder. ~GEORGE WASHINGTON, letter, Aug. 17, 1779
Quit yer b*tching and whining and GET INVOLVED!!
I agree. Just show one.
Nobody else here seems to believe that it happened. We were around at the time. And you're far from the most reliable source in this forum. As of now, all the available evidence forces us to conclude that you're lying.
Jesse Benton was paid almost 600k ($586,616) for the 2012 election. I blame him some for accepting so much money while doing a terrible job but I do blame his boss more for paying him so much and not being a good steward with our donations.
On this forum when the topic came up back in 2012, the defenders (myself included), said it was for reimbursements. I don't think that was true and cannot find any info for such reimbursements while I can find some info about itemized expenses other campaign staffers used. I think the majority of that 580k was take home pay and he really didn't earn it given the bad job the campaign did with working with the grassroots to get delegates and given how they kept asking for money after the campaign was clearly over.
That depends on the definition of "coordinating"
in this case "coordinating" probably means sequestering some of us in the attic....our money and votes will be taken (if you feel like donating, but they don't need them) but your views and opinions are clearly too embarrassing for public viewing.
why are you still here?
The Goldwater Revolution, before I was born, was supposed to "change things".
The Reagan Revolution, that I was part of, was supposed to "change things".
The Contract with America Revolution in 1994, was supposed to "change things".
The Consolidated GOP Revolution in DC during the first Bush years, was supposed to "change things".
The Ron Paul Revolution, was supposed to "change things".
The Rand Paul Revolution will "change things". We promise, this time.
Politics is entertainment for tyrants, played out for their benefit, by suckers, chumps and fools.
People do not want freedom, they never have wanted freedom, and the only times the human race has had a little bit of freedom is when men of action SEIZED it from the wretched refuse of the political and ruling classes and ignored the howls and protestations of the Stockholm Syndrome addled masses.
Until they themselves turned into the "pigs".
It is long past time to re-set the clock to zero.
'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988
Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation
'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3
Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.
...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...
We know this from Jesse's own mouth:
What an awkward conversation that was. But doesn't that kind of prove Collins' point?
Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law. -Douglas Hofstadter
Life, Liberty, Logic
Yes, except then Jesse went back after that was released and said that what he did in the conversation was just to appease a hardcore Ron Paul supporter, and that he really does believe in Mitch McConnell:
For those just joining this thread and not reading the first 6 pages, here's my list of some reasons why Jesse Benton shouldn't be near Rand in 2016:
(mod edit)
I don't suggest to cry over Ron Paul's loss or spilled milk, as said (mod edit) but there are plenty of reasons that Jesse Benton should not be involved in any fashion with Rand in 2016, and those are just some of them.
Last edited by jjdoyle; 11-17-2014 at 01:41 AM.
/thread
Seriously trying to turn this into a criticism of Tom Woods is stupid. Jesse Benton has become a liability. In 2016 if Tom Woods is working with the campaign nobody will notice. If Jesse Benton is, it will be a news story and not in a good way. Chris Hightower got thrown under the bus. The overeager volunteer who stepped on a protesters neck at a Rand Paul rally got thrown under the bus. The Southern Avenger threw himself under the bus. Really, it's simple. Jesse Benton being involved in any visible way will hurt the campaign. If he can be involved in a way that nobody knows he's involved than I guess that's okay...as long as he not in a position to colossally screw things up like he or someone did with the whole "Let's pay a Michelle Bachmann aide to switch sides" fiasco. Seriously nobody involved in that should be directly involved with the campaign. If Ron himself was facing a federal indictment over slimy politics then he would need to be at arms length at least until that was cleared up as well. Really, why should everyone be expected to sacrifice except Jesse Benton? Benton may be a great guy and the best political strategist on the planet, but he's a liability at this point. Period.
9/11 Thermate experiments
Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I
"I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"
"We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul
"It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
...which is why I suggested that we reverse the chain of command from the top down to a bottom up here:
The present curriculum...
It would do us right to work some stuff out in Roberts Rules... turn this place into a
Parlimentary Action Liberty Bootcamp
Last edited by presence; 11-17-2014 at 11:35 AM.
'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988
Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation
'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3
Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.
...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...
Last edited by presence; 11-17-2014 at 09:57 AM.
'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988
Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation
'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3
Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.
...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...
The Harding/Coolidge era did change things. And people enjoyed the liberty they got in the Roaring Twenties. In fact, it wasn't until the kids from that era got to be ninety or so that they could get away with accelerating the rate of tyrannization.
If we could get everyone a little more experience with liberty that way, they'd once again know what we're fighting for, and they'd help us do it.
I do not think that will ever be permitted again, at least not by the post WWII ruling junta in DC
Woods deserves props for standing up for the grassroots against Ron Paul Inc. and their slimy corrupt coattail-riding goons like Jesse Benton. The revisionists want to paint the picture that the Ron Paul 2012 campaign was managed so well and Benton was responsible for that. Nothing could be further from the truth. I don't know if they're trying to fool themselves, or just whore themselves out for a paycheck. Either way, it's sickening.
I think that really sums it up. Given Randals past history with other employees that became a problem I would be surprised if Benton was involved at all publically or officially.
I could come up with some reasons/excuses for why he might be involved in some capacity (especially initially) but can't come up with any for why he SHOULD be involved.
Reasons to Not Publicly Hire Jesse Benton for the Rand Paul 2012 Campaign
1) He's Facing Federal Election Fraud Charges
2) Born in 1977, Benton's political career began in 2000 when he worked with the Republican National Committee.
3) He has essentially gone straight from college into politics with very little experience, and paychecks in the 100K range from family members' campaign funds.
4) Jesse aired grievances about Tom Woods and treated him poorly.
5) Rand Paul dropped Chris Hightower in 2009 for less.
6) Jesse's definition of winning and what one must do to 'win' is exactly opposite of what the grassroots' definition of 'winning' is and what one must do to 'win', according to some.
7) Jesse is seen as seeking to co-opt grassroots' power and attempted to use it to further his own ends.
8) Bryan, owner of RandPaulForums.com, does not think his text message to Peter Schiff regarding Paul Fest was appropriate.
9) According to Kent Snyder, the campaign chairman for Ron Paul in his 2008 campaign (who tragically died of pneumonia), Mr. Benton was never a part of any campaign until he hooked up with Ron Paul's granddaughter, and he had no knowledge of Ron Paul -- he was hired because he was unemployed and affordable.
10) If you want to pit Tom Woods' integrity and transparency against Jesse Benton, most RPF forum members will probably take Tom Woods 100 times out of 100.
11) Many supporters see Mr. Benton as having undermined the Ron Paul 2012 campaign.
12) Rand bringing on Jesse Benton to his campaign team will demonstrate cronyism, nepotism and a lack of quality judgment.
13) Jesse Benton's management got Ron Paul fewer votes than Rick Santorum in 2012.
14) Jesse Benton's management got Ron Paul fewer votes than Newt Gingrich in 2012.
15) Jesse Benton showed in 2012 that he didn't know how to tailor a political message to help his candidate win, according to jjdoyle (and other forum members).
16) Mr. Benton didn't know how to guide the energy of the grassroots -- to the contrary, he alienated the vast majority of them who were aware of him.
17) He was perceived by many as being "busy spraying Roundup everywhere trying to kill the grassroots."
18) Supporters saw his actions as wasting millions of their dollars and wasting months and years of their lives.
19) Under Jesse Benton's direction, RonPaul2012.com was used to defend a Mitt Romney endorsement.
20) There was a lack of transparency in Mr. Benton's actions. The lack of transparency in and of itself is an indication of something, according to some.
21) Can we say that Rand won't have to defend him in some regard? Can we say that Rand won't have to cut ties in an embarrassing kerfuffle? No, it is likely that Rand would have to defend Mr. Benton, and would eventually have to part paths with him in an embarrassing way.
22) Benton's learning curve leeway is all used up and some supporters are having a hard time figuring out what, if anything, he has learned.
23) Under Mr. Benton, despite having raised more money than the campaigns of Rick Santorum and Newt Gingrich, Ron Paul's campaign still couldn't win a single state's popular vote.
24) Many of Mr. Benton's decisions were and still are seen as having been made in order to help Mitt Romney win the nomination, a goal not shared by most of the supporters of Ron Paul in 2012.
25) His apparent political opportunism raises the concern that he would turn on a dime and change loyalties if it was politically expedient in the future.
26) According to angelatc, who was involved in the Ron Paul 2012 campaign and had personal experience with Mr. Benton, and also was in close contact with Tom Woods, a victim of Mr. Benton's wrath: Jesse Benton is a mealy mouthed little self important worm who hasn't actually won an election.
27) A good campaign manager stays out of the spotlight. Benton has not, so he fails in that regard. Furthermore, most of his spotlight is negative.
28) Jesse Benton had to resign from the Mitch McConnell 2014 campaign.
29) Based on the Sorensen issue alone, many RPF members think he should be kept far, far, away.
30) Allegations of shady dealings is a red flag because the competition will use every negative thing out there to try and smear Rand.
31) There are rumors of Mr. Benton having been seen wandering around the Washington D.C. area with a young female who is not his wife, possibly an intern.
32) The one RonPaulForums member on this thread who is an actual successful campaign manager, mosquitobites, gives a negative assessment of Jesse Benton as a campaign manager. According to mosquitobites: "Most of [Jesse Benton's] spotlight is negative." Mosquitobites believes he has "failed on that front." This unfavorable assessment from an experienced, successful campaign manager should carry a lot of weight.
33) People of known good character, people whom we trust, such as Tom Woods, have voiced serious concerns -- indeed, have issued a call of no confidence -- regarding the character of Jesse Benton.
That last one is why a certain user keeps trying to bring the conversation around to Tom Woods. If he could just discredit and smear Tom Woods, drag his name through the mud, then Mr. Woods' criticisms of Mr. Benton would have less weight and credibility. Unfortunately for this user, the character of Tom Woods is stellar, and his reputation gleams stainless.
Last edited by helmuth_hubener; 11-17-2014 at 12:52 PM.
Perhaps next the thread will take a turn toward trying to find, dishonestly exaggerate, and repeatedly hammer over and over and over any flaws or mistakes that Mosquitobite may have made in the past (real or imaginary) in a similar attempt to decrease her credibility.
Last edited by helmuth_hubener; 11-17-2014 at 01:41 PM.
I have a question for Matt (should this be its own topic?)
You've described yourself as the "netroots coordinator". I don't know what that means, but since RPF is on the Internet, it sounds like it might have something to do with us (and maybe Facebook and stuff like that). RPF is mostly made up of grassroots supporters....at least, that's what I've always thought. With that in mind, here's the situation and my question:
It's fair to say that you're going to be involved on the inside of Rand's campaign. Probably along with Jesse Benton.
Let’s say the GOP establishment promised Rand’s campaign something that would be hard to refuse — it’s a plum deal that should secure the nomination for Rand. But, it would mean he would have to take a stand on something that would really piss off his Dad’s supporters…something that might make his endorsement of Romney look like child’s play. Hannity, Beck, and Limbaugh would be singing Rand’s praises to the rooftops, but any of Ron Paul supporters still in Rand’s camp would walk away in droves.
There are risks involved. Even though the GOP establishment has promised pie in the sky, we’re still about 13-14 months away from the first caucus/primaries. A lot can happen that could make that “secure nomination” they promised something a lot less secure.
If the decision were yours to make, and the establishment came to you, Matt Collins, with that deal…would you do it?
If we posed the same question to Jesse Benton, would he do it?
The Saint's - Bengals game reminded me of this thread for some reason.
'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988
Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation
'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3
Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.
...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...
I think we both know the answer to that...
“Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder.” - Arnold Toynbee
Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law. -Douglas Hofstadter
Life, Liberty, Logic
Oh they would trot out Tom's involvement with the League of the South back in the day.
__________________________________________________ ________________
"A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst
Possible, but one never knows until it happens.
I don't (currently) speak for anyone other than myself, but it is very difficult if not impossible to answer hypotheticals like this. I will say that I am not as pragmatic as some might be, so I would be inclined not to compromise, but then again I am not a politician nor am I seeking office. Again, the devil is in the details.
__________________________________________________ ________________
"A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst
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