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Thread: Rand hammers EEOC for harassing small businesses

  1. #1

    Rand hammers EEOC for harassing small businesses

    Apparently the EEOC has been going into small businesses attempting to entrap them into charges. Just fishing expeditions, with no probable cause. They also have a huge backload of actual complaints that they don't investigate.



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  3. #2
    Wow, Rand is seriously fired up about this. Nice passion. I just wish he had been able to get the last word in because he was bulldozing them up until the last minute.
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  4. #3
    Heh. That was pretty good.

  5. #4
    A tip-off and complaint are the same damn thing. That idiot should be going through their backlog of 70,000 that actually have complaints against them.

  6. #5
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  7. #6
    If Rand had a chance to retort, what he should have done is say to the EEOC guy, "about what percent of your non-complaint-based investigations are based on anonymous tips?" -- and then when the answer comes back that only a minority are based on tips, that would refutre Sen. Harkin's point.

  8. #7
    It seems rand is a mixed bag. He impress us with this, but supports tpp. I don't know rand's reasoning to support ttp.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by economics102 View Post
    If Rand had a chance to retort, what he should have done is say to the EEOC guy, "about what percent of your non-complaint-based investigations are based on anonymous tips?" -- and then when the answer comes back that only a minority are based on tips, that would refutre Sen. Harkin's point.
    Well, there are tips, and then there are "tips". If someone in a position of power has an agenda, a bone to pick with a company, or would stand to profit from it, then there's your anonymous tip.
    Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law. -Douglas Hofstadter

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  11. #9
    If I owned a small business and some of these guys started getting all up my ass because of an anonymous tip I'd be mortified. When federal prosecutors decide that you're guilty of something, most of the time you are better off caving in, pleading guilty and giving them whatever they want, because otherwise they will ruin your life.
    Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law. -Douglas Hofstadter

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  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashland View Post
    Well, there are tips, and then there are "tips". If someone in a position of power has an agenda, a bone to pick with a company, or would stand to profit from it, then there's your anonymous tip.
    Agree. Anonymous tips are prime for abuse by the authorities.

    I believe that was part of Rand's point. Anonymous tips do not come with an "oath or affirmation" or "probable cause".

    Amendment IV

    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
    And the right to confront the accuser is in the 6th:

    In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    “They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  13. #11
    Still the senator said that someone tipped the EEOC off.. Tipping the authorities off is kinda like a complaint. Someone made a complaint on someone's behalf. It is entirely different than actually going into a law abiding business and trying to set the business up for violations when there were no complaints or tipp off at all.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by alucard13mm View Post
    Still the senator said that someone tipped the EEOC off.. Tipping the authorities off is kinda like a complaint. Someone made a complaint on someone's behalf. It is entirely different than actually going into a law abiding business and trying to set the business up for violations when there were no complaints or tipp off at all.
    Absolutely. A tip is like a complaint. And Rand addressed that as soon as the other Senator got into that. It's a technicality, except if you look at the issue of "oath or affirmation". Anonymous tips do not have those. It's a bit of a gray area.

    And as you said, without a complaint or a tip, it's totally out of line.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    “They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Absolutely. A tip is like a complaint. And Rand addressed that as soon as the other Senator got into that. It's a technicality, except if you look at the issue of "oath or affirmation". Anonymous tips do not have those. It's a bit of a gray area.
    Would have to specifically scribble that up. That covers a broad area, though.

  16. #14
    ./
    Last edited by specsaregood; 05-17-2016 at 02:55 PM.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    Is he arguing that the rest of the employees (not disabled) are better off now that their employer was driven out of business by the govt because they had made the poor decision to employ retards?
    Politically incorrect to call them "retards"

    Reported.
    Last edited by Jamesiv1; 11-14-2014 at 02:26 AM.

  18. #16
    I think Rand went a little overboard on this one. After the first couple of minutes he started sounding like a whiny little girl instead of a President. Let people say their piece and don't interrupt them. It's good manners, if nothing else.

    Understandable, given his awesomeness and momentum, but he's got a keep a good head, and not let good fortune give him a big head.

    Stay humble. Stay Presidential.
    Last edited by Jamesiv1; 11-14-2014 at 07:00 AM.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    And even regardless of that, the supposed problem was the company was employing "intellectually disabled" individuals. And the senator was saying they had nothing to show from working their for 20 years. Even though they were housed and employed. Is he arguing that these people are better off with no job? Is he arguing that the rest of the employees (not disabled) are better off now that their employer was driven out of business by the govt because they had made the poor decision to employee retards?
    Nah man. It is better to have mentally challenged people be 100% dependent on the government for a check.

    Still.. it does kinda make Rand look bad.. even though it might not be the case, but it made Rand look "heartless". Like he didn't care about the "intellectually disabled". Rand keeps saying it is about perception, but in the last part of the video... Rand was made to look heartless.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by alucard13mm View Post
    It seems rand is a mixed bag. He impress us with this, but supports tpp. I don't know rand's reasoning to support ttp.
    Well, TheNewAmerican.com says that Paul supports TPP. I still have yet to hear Paul himself say he supports TPP.

  22. #19
    As long as he doesn't say something stupid the only people that are going to watch this are his diehard fans. Presidential or not he got his point across.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamesiv1 View Post
    I think Rand went a little overboard on this one. After the first couple of minutes he started sounding like a whiny little girl instead of a President. Let people say their piece and don't interrupt them. It's good manners, if nothing else.

    Understandable, given his awesomeness and momentum, but he's got a keep a good head, and not let good fortune give him a big head.

    Stay humble. Stay Presidential.

  23. #20
    Rand's points, energy, and eloquence were initially excellent. Then he became weak. The answer to the old guy's point should have never been that given the facts it was worth the investigation. That business was creating jobs and giving opportunities that these handicapped employees could not obtain anywhere else in the market place, so if the guy who "tipped off" the government thought that the conditions were not good enough, he could have led these employees to other employment opportunities. Basic free market economics and liberty principles. NO government intervention is justified in ANY case. Once the government is allowed to intervene, all sorts of things can happen, mostly immoral.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    And even regardless of that, the supposed problem was the company was employing "intellectually disabled" individuals. And the senator was saying they had nothing to show from working their for 20 years. Even though they were housed and employed. Is he arguing that these people are better off with no job?
    Yeah, Sen Harkin was getting on his high horse about that. Appeal to emotion. Disregarding the realities of the situation. Some issues with his appeal:

    - Many people that have jobs that pay better than minimum wage have "nothing to show for 20 years of work". Does that mean they are abused, or just not savers?
    - Many mentally disabled people do not have money for the simple reason that they don't understand it. It will be taken from them by predators or quickly wasted.
    - Many programs pay less to mentally disabled people because they are limited in what they can do. The alternative is that they do nothing.
    - Is the housing and food truly bad? Is there a cafeteria? Do they have their own rooms? Who cleans it? Is there a maid and janitor? Laundry service? I would not take Harkin's word on the true situation and conditions.

    Yes, there may have been abuse and poor conditions that needed to be addressed. On the other hand, it may be a matter of expectations. Reality is often different than the rainbows and unicorns promised by utopian statists.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    “They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by bocelli View Post
    The answer to the old guy's point should have never been that given the facts it was worth the investigation. That business was creating jobs and giving opportunities that these handicapped employees could not obtain anywhere else in the market place, so if the guy who "tipped off" the government thought that the conditions were not good enough, he could have led these employees to other employment opportunities. Basic free market economics and liberty principles. NO government intervention is justified in ANY case. Once the government is allowed to intervene, all sorts of things can happen, mostly immoral.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Yes, there may have been abuse and poor conditions that needed to be addressed. On the other hand, it may be a matter of expectations. Reality is often different than the rainbows and unicorns promised by utopian statists.
    While its easy to say that here on rpfs; it certainly isn't easy to say all that when you are already out of time in a senate hearing. Let alone trying to explain that in soundbytes to the American people. And assuming it wasn't a trap set by Harkin. I mean, I doubt Randal knew anything about that particular situation, it might very well have been completely horrible and needing to be shutdown.

    I thought Randal did very well and to say that getting a "tip" is not a "complaint" is nitpicking and Randal wasn't arguing to not investigate "tips".

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Reality is often different than the rainbows and unicorns promised by utopian statists.
    Wait, what? I thought that the unicorns were due for delivery Q1 2015, and rainbows soon after. I mean, I know that they might not have all the features you (or I) are looking for, but still: unicorns. Even for the least fortunate among us.

    Sounds pretty good to me!

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener View Post
    Wait, what? I thought that the unicorns were due for delivery Q1 2015, and rainbows soon after. I mean, I know that they might not have all the features you (or I) are looking for, but still: unicorns. Even for the least fortunate among us.

    Sounds pretty good to me!
    The unicorn deficit will be solved by 2023, based upon Hillary's seven year plan. The Rainbow Generation Agency (RGA) has been in existence for a long time, although it has recently been folded into the Department of Homeland Security. All it needs is a 200% budget increase, and more rainbows will be securely delivered.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    “They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamesiv1 View Post
    Politically incorrect to call them "retards"

    Reported.
    Let is slide. He swims in his garage FFS.

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