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Thread: Exposing Republicrat Monetary Ignorance For Dummies

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by H. E. Panqui View Post
    [/FONT][/B](say it ain't so!...can't even tell the truth on the Ron Paul forums?!..Ron Paul Forums allows people to write virtually anything about 'liberals' 'democrats' 'left-wingers,' etc.....but use the same language attacking 'Republicans,' 'conservatives' 'right-wingers' and threats/promises of banning ensue???... ...admit it, change 'Republican/Republicrat' and 'Rand Paul' from ALL of my 'attacks' to 'Democrat'/liberal/. and 'Harry Reid' and i wouldn't hear a peep of condemnation!) ...and you know it!!
    With pleasure. It ain't so.

    It wouldn't take a rational observer five minutes from word go to see beyond a shadow of a doubt that this site is chock full of criticism of mainstream Republicans, the Establishment Wing of the Republican Party, and more individual Republicans than you or I could possibly name off the top of our heads.

    That note was about your habit of calling people out by name and arguing with them. Criticize who and what you want. But don't insult those who ask you questions now, and look up the facts of the matter later.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only want the freedoms that will undermine the nation and lead to the destruction of liberty.



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  3. #62
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    ...i repeat..'admit it, change 'Republican/Republicrat' and 'Rand Paul' from ALL of my 'attacks' to 'Democrat'/liberal/. and 'Harry Reid' and i wouldn't hear a peep of condemnation!) ...and you know it!!

  4. #63
    Nice to find someone who's such an expert on what I know.

    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    "It ain't what we don't know that hurts us, it's what we 'know' that ain't so."--Will Rogers
    I'll tell you what I do know. There's no difference between a Republicrat and a Demopublican. So, to put 'Republicrat' on one side of a dilemma and 'liberal' on the other is plain silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only want the freedoms that will undermine the nation and lead to the destruction of liberty.

  5. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by BuddyRey View Post
    Do you think it's a coincidence that the most cherished standard of the Ron Paul campaign was a sign highlighting the word "love" inside the word "revolution"? A revolution not based on love is a revolution doomed to failure. So, at the risk of sounding corny, I just wanted to let you know that, wherever you stand on any of these hot-button issues, and even if we might have exchanged bitter words or harsh sentiments in the past, I love each and every one of you - no exceptions!

    "When goods do not cross borders, soldiers will." Frederic Bastiat

    Peace.



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  7. #65
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    Henry Rogue, good to find another honest $eeker...I read your piece and tried to find Zarlenga's response to you...(?apparently he's never communicated with you?!)..that doesn't sound like him...so i searched Aguilar/Zarlenga and could find nothing..please paste any communication with him you can share...you have me curious now!!)

    you write:

    "In my book (1999) I use the term “commodity money,” not “gold.” I did not want to mention any empirical facts because my work is purely theoretical.

    (Zarlenga FREQUENTLY admits his disgust of 'theory' over reality/history...but you seem polite and earnest..i find it hard to believe you rubbed him the wrong way..I think you'll find that Zarlenga, Bill Still, and other monetary realists are trying to convey the notion of 'forced usage' by some form of 'government' as the major historical impetus for something serving (widely) as 'money'...for example, some of your 'ranchers'/cattlemen' surely would have figured out they could really profit if they could lobby the legislature(s) to accept only their gold cattle tokens in courts at law, for payment of taxes, as THE 'legal tender, etc.)

    Below is an excerpt from Bill Still's 'Money Masters':



    "... 2. THE MONEY CHANGERS
    Just who are these "Money Changers" James Madison spoke of above? The Bible tells us that two thousand years ago, Jesus Christ drove the Money Changers from the Temple in Jerusalem, twice. These were the only times Jesus used physical violence. What were Money Changers doing in the Temple? When Jews came to Jerusalem to pay their Temple tax, they could only pay it with a special coin, the half shekel of the sanctuary. This was a half-ounce of pure silver, about the size of a quarter. It was the only coin around at that time which was pure silver and of assured weight, without the image of a pagan Emperor. Therefore, to Jews the half-shekel was the coin acceptable to God.But these coins not plentiful. The Money Changers had cornered the market on them. Then, they raised the price of them - just like any other monopolized commodity - to whatever market would bear. In other words, the Money Changers making exorbitant profits because they held a virtual monopoly on money. The Jews had to pay whatever they demanded. To Jesus injustice violated the sanctity of God's house. 3. ROMAN EMPIRE But the money changing scam did not originate in Jesus' day. Two hundred years before Christ, Rome was having trouble with Money Changers. Two early Roman emperors had tried to diminish the power of the Money Changers by reforming usury laws and limiting land ownership to 500 acres. They both were assassinated. In 48 B.C., Julius Caesar took back the power to coin money from the Money Changers and minted coins for the benefit of all. With this new, plentiful supply of money, he built great public works projects. By making money plentiful, Caesar won the love common man. But the Money Changers hated him. Some believe this was an important factor in Caesar's assassination. One thing is for sure, with the death of Caesar came the demise of plentiful money in Rome. Taxes increased, as did corruption. Eventually, the Roman money supply was reduced by 90%. As a result, the common people lost their lands and homes - just as has happened and will happen again in America to the few who still own their own land or homes. With the demise of plentiful money and the loss of their property, the masses lost confidence in Roman government and refused to support it. Rome plunged into the gloom of the Dark Ages.
    Last edited by H. E. Panqui; 11-18-2014 at 06:27 AM.

  8. #66
    I didn't write the piece, I just linked to it. A while back i took a hiatus from RPF and went on a youtube odyssey, never knowing where the next place would take me. Somewhere a long the way, i came across something in comments about historical evidence not supporting a market based origin of money, but there wasn't any details. That became a dead end. So when i read this thread, it piques my interest and I did some searching on the topic. This link was one of the things i came across.
    Quote Originally Posted by H. E. Panqui View Post
    Henry Rogue, good to find another honest $eeker...I read your piece and tried to find Zarlenga's response to you...(?apparently he's never communicated with you?!)..that doesn't sound like him...so i searched Aguilar/Zarlenga and could find nothing..please paste any communication with him you can share...you have me curious now!!)

    you write:

    "In my book (1999) I use the term “commodity money,” not “gold.” I did not want to mention any empirical facts because my work is purely theoretical.

    (Zarlenga FREQUENTLY admits his disgust of 'theory' over reality/history...but you seem polite and earnest..i find it hard to believe you rubbed him the wrong way..I think you'll find that Zarlenga, Bill Still, and other monetary realists are trying to convey the notion of 'forced usage' by some form of 'government' as the major historical impetus for something serving (widely) as 'money'...for example, some of your 'ranchers'/cattlemen' surely would have figured out they could really profit if they could lobby the legislature(s) to accept only their gold cattle tokens in courts at law, for payment of taxes, as THE 'legal tender, etc.)

    Below is an excerpt from Bill Still's 'Money Masters':



    "... 2. THE MONEY CHANGERS
    Just who are these "Money Changers" James Madison spoke of above? The Bible tells us that two thousand years ago, Jesus Christ drove the Money Changers from the Temple in Jerusalem, twice. These were the only times Jesus used physical violence. What were Money Changers doing in the Temple? When Jews came to Jerusalem to pay their Temple tax, they could only pay it with a special coin, the half shekel of the sanctuary. This was a half-ounce of pure silver, about the size of a quarter. It was the only coin around at that time which was pure silver and of assured weight, without the image of a pagan Emperor. Therefore, to Jews the half-shekel was the coin acceptable to God.But these coins not plentiful. The Money Changers had cornered the market on them. Then, they raised the price of them - just like any other monopolized commodity - to whatever market would bear. In other words, the Money Changers making exorbitant profits because they held a virtual monopoly on money. The Jews had to pay whatever they demanded. To Jesus injustice violated the sanctity of God's house. 3. ROMAN EMPIRE But the money changing scam did not originate in Jesus' day. Two hundred years before Christ, Rome was having trouble with Money Changers. Two early Roman emperors had tried to diminish the power of the Money Changers by reforming usury laws and limiting land ownership to 500 acres. They both were assassinated. In 48 B.C., Julius Caesar took back the power to coin money from the Money Changers and minted coins for the benefit of all. With this new, plentiful supply of money, he built great public works projects. By making money plentiful, Caesar won the love common man. But the Money Changers hated him. Some believe this was an important factor in Caesar's assassination. One thing is for sure, with the death of Caesar came the demise of plentiful money in Rome. Taxes increased, as did corruption. Eventually, the Roman money supply was reduced by 90%. As a result, the common people lost their lands and homes - just as has happened and will happen again in America to the few who still own their own land or homes. With the demise of plentiful money and the loss of their property, the masses lost confidence in Roman government and refused to support it. Rome plunged into the gloom of the Dark Ages.
    Quote Originally Posted by BuddyRey View Post
    Do you think it's a coincidence that the most cherished standard of the Ron Paul campaign was a sign highlighting the word "love" inside the word "revolution"? A revolution not based on love is a revolution doomed to failure. So, at the risk of sounding corny, I just wanted to let you know that, wherever you stand on any of these hot-button issues, and even if we might have exchanged bitter words or harsh sentiments in the past, I love each and every one of you - no exceptions!

    "When goods do not cross borders, soldiers will." Frederic Bastiat

    Peace.

  9. #67
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    Henry Rogue writes: "..i came across something in comments about historical evidence not supporting a market based origin of money, but there wasn't any details. That became a dead end. So when i read this thread, it piques my interest and I did some searching on the topic..."


    (...lots of 'dead ends' on this most important of $ubjects/issues!...probably the first thing to acknowledge is that 'the power$ that be' have NEVER talked honestly and/or intelligently about the most desired man-made 'commodity':'money'...and that virtually every 'Republicrat' who's held major public office in my lifetime, and every major 'public figure' in my lifetime with access to a 'major microphone' has been/is no serious threat to this miserable, fraudulent monetary order..it seems to me that many of the people you find on the conservative/Republican/'libertarianish'
    political forums will babble on about some 'invisible hand' 'free market' where 'government' is out and 'freedom' is in ....themselves NEVER talking honestly/knowledgeably about the most ubiquitous 'free market' commodity..virtually half of every 'free market' transaction: the hideous, bankster-controlled federal reserve note/token (widely known as 'dollars' to said Republicrats...

    ...as one wag put it, "the power$ that be can make jesus look like the devil, and the devil look like jesus...fools look like sages and sages like fools"...which reminds me, Republicrat ($)election 2016 is starting to gear up!......Bill Still, Ellen Brown, Steve Zarlenga, Byron Dale,..

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    I fear the nature/history of 'money' has been misunderstood, buried, etc..and that people aren't truly 'comm'unicating when they talk about 'money', 'economics,' etc...as in order to truly 'comm' unicate we must share a 'comm' on understanding of what we are yacking about..


    Here's how H. E. explains the stinking, evil, destructive, etc., nature of 'our' 'money' to children..

    H. E.: "You see children, we could use anything as 'money'...whatever 'the government says' we must use to pay property taxes, etc. taxes, use in court, use as a medium in contract$, use as a unit of account, etc., will be 'the money' we all use. (..at least that's how it's always worked in the past..)
    ,
    Child: Could we use gold/silver/copper coins 'as money'?

    H. E.: Yes. If 'the government' said we must/could use it for taxes, in court, etc.

    Child: Could we use baseball cards?

    H. E.: Yes, and for the same reason as before.

    Child: Could we use toothpicks?

    H. E.: Yes. Of course.

    Child: Could we use horse poop? (giggling)

    H. E.: Yes, and I believe it's been used 'as money' before...

    Child: Could we use human poop? (giggling)

    H. E.: Yes. But now children, imagine if only certain people's poop could be used as money..say, if only H. E.'s poop was the official money...no one else's poop counted 'as money' in court, for tax payments, etc. fees ad nauseam..

    Child: But that wouldn't be fair, H. E.!!! You'd be filthy rich and could do whatever you wanted and everyone else would have to kiss your butt!

    H. E.: Very good, child! You have more monetary sense than most/all adult Republicrats!

  11. #69
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    "If the superior credit the Banks enjoy, grew out of the natural order of things, it would not be a subject of complaint. But the Banks owe their credit to their charters – to special acts of legislation in their favor, and to their notes being made receivable in payment of dues to Government. The kind of credit which is created for them by law, being equipollent with cash in the market, enables them to transfer an equal amount of substantial wealth from the productive classes to themselves, giving the productive classes only representatives of credit, or evidences of debt, in return for the substantial wealth which they part with." William Gouge

    This old wag ^^^^under$tood. Unfortunately the bankster$ control the biggest microphones/megaphones...and they feed the Republicrat mullet voters a $teady diet of Maria Buttaroma, Larry Kudlow, Kramer, Rush Limbaugh, Charlie Rose, Alex Jones, etcetercrats galore...so there's no room left for any Gouge!...stuffed to the gills by a 24-7 bankster banquet of chemical bread..and circuse$..

  12. #70
    You lump Alex Jones in there? What about the steady stream of content he reposts such as:

    Monetary reform: reclaiming $1 trillion every year through public creation of money

    Carl Herman
    Examiner.com
    Sunday, August 22, 2009
    Without knowing how money is created and managed, all other topics concerning money are out of context. This is crucial: regarding trillions of dollars of economic power, you have no idea where money comes from. It’s time for you to learn. When people don’t know how money is created and managed, the only thing between them and tyranny is trust in ethical government. American democracy is founded upon cautious distrust of government. To compensate for temptations of power and personal profit in government, the US Constitution is designed with checks and balances. However, because checks and balances can be thwarted if politicians are unethical, the only real protection of liberty is citizen responsibility. American democracy is dependent upon our taking personal responsibility for understanding our most important economic and political issues. This is one of them.

    Many Americans believe in the US without understanding our major economic and government policies. Collectively, American’s trust in our government to ethically create and manage money is so pervasive that few of us ever give this multi-trillion dollar issue a moment’s thought. As a teacher of economics, this particular topic is a theme of my class. I hope this brief is helpful for your responsible citizenry.

    There are five topics to understand for civic competence in creating and managing money. The first four are standard to economics curriculum; the last is rational analysis:

    • Money and bank credit.
    • Fractional reserve banking.
    • Debt (public and private) and money supply.
    • Historical struggle between government-issued money and private bank-issued credit.
    • Cost-benefit analysis for monetary reform in your world of the present.

    I promise you can easily understand each topic and that your understanding will give you an informed policy voice over trillions of dollars. I encourage you to verify and supplement the information in this paper through additional research. My experience as a teacher is that the best tool to visualize this information is to literally see it through an online 78-minute video, “Money As Debt II: Promises Unleashed.” Of many sources: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_doYllBk5No&feature=related . For background: www.moneyasdebt.net . For transcript of Money as Debt: http://paulgrignon.netfirms.com/Mone...Transcript.doc . For an excellent overview of our monetary system, Want to Know.info’s: http://www.wanttoknow.info/financialbankingcoverup . For excellent current articles: http://www.webofdebt.com/articles/ .

    “The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled.”
    – John Kenneth Galbraith, Money: Whence it came, where it went (1975), p.29. Galbraith wrote five best-selling books on economics (best-selling to the public), was President of the American Economic Association, economics professor at Harvard, and advisor to four US Presidents.


    Please be advised that the ideas most people have about how money is created and managed are false. Because the facts are so different from what most people believe, cognitive dissonance will push some people to reject the facts. Please reaffirm your commitment to embrace the facts. Here we go:
    Related posts:

    1. Rampant Inflation In 2011? The Monetary Base Is Exploding, Commodity Prices Are Skyrocketing And The Fed Wants To Print Lots More Money
    2. National Debt Increases for 53rd Straight Fiscal Year; Jumped $1.65 Trillion in FY 2010
    3. US public debt tops $12 trillion for first time ever
    4. US Starts New Fiscal Year With $14.837 Trillion In Debt, $142 Billion Increase In Two Days
    5. As Adjusted Monetary Base Rises By Half A Trillion In 2011, Treasury Runs Out Of Debt Ceiling Delay Measures



    Keiser Report – Interview with Bill Still of “The Money Masters”
    http://www.infowars.com/keiser-repor...money-masters/
    RT




    September 20, 2011
    This week Max Keiser and co-host, Stacy Herbert, discuss Babyface Bernanke, Eurotarp and ‘rogue traders.’ In the second half of the show Max talks to Bill Still, director of The Money Masters & The Secret of Oz, about Fort Knox, state banks and monetary reform.





    Fractional Reserve Banking, Government, and Moral Hazard

    http://www.infowars.com/fractional-r...-moral-hazard/






    Ron Paul


    Infowars.com
    July 12, 2012

    Last week my subcommittee held a hearing on fractional reserve banking and the moral hazard created by government (taxpayer) insured deposits. Fractional reserve banking is the practice by which banks accept deposits but only keep a fraction of those deposits on hand at any time. In practice, nearly 100% of deposits are loaned out, yet depositors believe that they can withdraw the full amount of their deposit at any time. Loaned funds are then redeposited and reloaned up to the limit of the bank’s reserve requirements, compounding the effect.
    As Murray Rothbard put it, “Fractional reserve banks … create money out of thin air. Essentially they do it in the same way as counterfeiters. Counterfeiters, too, create money out of thin air by printing something masquerading as money or as a warehouse receipt for money. In this way, they fraudulently extract resources from the public, from the people who have genuinely earned their money. In the same way, fractional reserve banks counterfeit warehouse receipts for money, which then circulate as equivalent to money among the public. There is one exception to the equivalence: The law fails to treat the receipts as counterfeit.” *
    While mainstream economists extol this “money multiplier” as a nearly miraculous process that results in a robust economy, low reserve requirements actually enable banks to create trillions of dollars of credit out of thin air, a process that distorts the structure of production and gives rise to the business cycle. Once the boom phase of the business cycle has run its course and the bust commences, some people will naturally look to hold cash. So they withdraw money from their bank accounts in order to hold physical currency. But bank deposits consist of a huge amount of credit pyramided on top of a small of amount of original cash deposits. Each dollar of cash that is withdrawn unwinds the multiplier, resulting in a contraction in credit. And if depositors en masse attempt to withdraw more funds than are available in reserves, the entire of house of cards comes crashing down. This is the very real threat facing some European banks today.
    Since the amount of deposits always exceeds the amount of reserves, it is obvious that fractional reserve banks cannot possibly pay all of their depositors on demand as they promise – thus making these banks functionally insolvent. While the likelihood of all depositors pulling their money out at once is relatively rare, bank runs periodically do occur. The only reason banks are able to survive such occurrences is because of the government subsidy known as deposit insurance, which was intended to backstop the stability of the banking system and prevent bank runs. While deposit insurance arguably has succeeded in reducing the number and severity of bank runs, deposit insurance is still an explicit bailout guarantee. It thereby creates a moral hazard by encouraging bank deposits into fundamentally unsound financial institutions and contributes to instability in the financial system.
    The solution to the problem of financial instability is to establish a truly free-market banking system. Banks should no longer have a government backstop of any sort in the event of failure. Banks, like every other business, should have to face the spectre of market regulation. Those banks which engage in sound business practices, keep adequate reserves on hand, and gain the confidence of their customers will survive, while others fall by the wayside.
    Banking, like any other financial activity, is not without risk – and the government should not continue its vain and futile pursuit of trying to eliminate risk. Get government out of the way and allow the market to function. This will result in a more stable system that meets the needs of consumers, borrowers, and investors.
    * Murray N. Rothbard, The Mystery of Banking, 2nd ed. (Auburn, Alabama: Ludwig von Mises Institute, 2008), p. 98.
    How Fractional Reserves and Inflation Cause Economic Inequality

    http://www.infowars.com/how-fraction...ic-inequality/ Is income inequality a bad thing?







    by Andreas Marquart | Mises Daily | May 21, 2014
    [Editor’s Note: Andreas Marquart and Philipp Bagus recently released a new German-language book, Warum anderen auf Ihre Kosten immer reicher werden — und welche Rolle Staat und Papiergield dabei spielen, about “why others are getting richer at your expense,” now available from FinanzBuch publishers. Mr. Marquart spoke with us about income inequality, Thomas Piketty, and the new book.]


    Mises Institute: How would you translate your new book’s title into English?
    Andreas Marquant: I would like to say The State Causes the Poverty It Later Claims to Solve. This is the title of my article on mises.org last December. An even better title could be The Austrian Answer to Thomas Piketty.
    MI: Your book addresses the issue of income inequality. Is income inequality a bad thing?
    AM: First of all, inequality and income inequality are natural phenomena because people are different. They all have different talents and that is a reason for the division of labor. It’s also a reason people work together and it’s a basic part of any complex society. Furthermore, some people are hardworking, others are more lazy. Income inequality is the logical consequence of this. The key question is: is income inequality the result of the free market and the free decisions of voluntary interacting actors; or is income inequality the result of the expansion of fiat money and the creation of money out of thin air that benefits the privileged few at the expense of many? That is, is it the result of state intervention? If the latter, case we have a problem.
    MI: When caused by state intervention, what is the primary source of the problem?
    AM: The primary source is fiat money inflation and the artificial increase of the money supply by bank credit. The greater fiat money inflation is, the more unjust are the consequences. The early recipients of newly-created money are the winners. The later receivers of the new money are the losers. This is certainly true when prices are clearly increasing, but the same redistribution effect also exists when money creation takes place in a situation where prices for goods and services should be falling but are not. For example, in an economy where worker productivity is increasing, prices should be falling. But even if prices remain more or less constant, a gigantic redistribution through the money printing press may be under way as workers become more productive but see no benefit from it, thanks to inflation.
    But the redistribution does not only work through its effects on the prices of goods and services. Have a look at the equity markets. The money created by the FED or the European Central Bank leads to new record-breaking prices at the equity markets. If you have a big block of shares already, you can benefit when this happens, but what if you cannot afford to buy stocks because your energy bill and food expenditures are rising continuously? And often, one very important point is forgotten: the transfer of wealth is irreversible, even if the new money disappears again.
    MI: In your book you contend that “good money” is important for economic prosperity. What is good money and why is this true?
    AM: Commodity money is good money because it is free-market money. The money supply would be expanded by natural and free production only, through voluntary exchange. This is the reason that in the past, precious metals such as gold and silver were used as money very often. We have good money when the government has nothing to do with the monetary system and people themselves can decide what money they want to use spontaneously and without any coercion from the state.
    MI: Someone who objects to your argument might say “Just look at the 19th century. That was a period with a gold standard and capitalism, and yet we saw lots of inequality at that time, didn’t we?”
    AM: In that case, banks had the privilege of holding only a fractional gold reserve, which is clearly not a true gold standard. That is, they still could create money out of thin air and give it to some people, while others did not receive this money but had to deal with prices that were higher than they otherwise would have been. So there was indeed a redistribution stemming from the inflationary production of fiduciary media also in the 19th century. And in that case also, the redistribution had a tendency of being in favor of the already well-off since the already-wealthy could provide better guarantees for the loans created out of thin air. Of course, the scale of the monetary redistribution of the 19th century was tiny in comparison with the creation of fiat money today.
    That being said, the 19th century was a time of a great industrialization. Railroads and water delivery systems were being built, the steel industry was growing rapidly, and for many entrepreneurial people, it was the chance of a lifetime. Some were more clever and faster than others, so naturally, some people got richer than others in these exciting times of extraordinary growth. But where is the problem if it is the consequence of voluntary interactions? As I noted earlier, inequality is a natural phenomenon. What has to be criticized: if entrepreneurs get subsidies from government or they receive money created out of thin air, then that is a case where one group of people is being forced to benefit another group.
    MI: When you looked at Piketty’s book what stood out to you as some of the biggest errors in it?
    AM: Piketty’s biggest error is to conclude from the data collected that under capitalism the rich get richer in relation to everyone else. I’m afraid that such a claim is nonsense. Piketty takes his data from a period that is characterized by both capitalism and socialism, and then he attributes everything he dislikes to capitalism. Yet his data is not from a capitalist world. The economic system in which we live today is a crony capitalist system or, we might say, a system of money socialism. And that’s Piketty’s greatest error: to blame capitalism for the negative effects of crony capitalism and money socialism. But perhaps it is no error. Perhaps, he only wants to be loved by politicians and the IMF. I think they love him already, though.


    Are you saying Mises, Ron Paul, Kieser, Carl Herman, and Marquart are all part of the problem too?




    Personally... I find trading and buying with bitcoin, bartering my labor for tangibles, being self employed, supporting my local economy, as well as producing my own food through farming and hunting are great ways to distance myself from fractional reserve banking and the monetary system. That is... rather than get caught in what I cannot do... focus on what I can do to enhance my freedom and economic liberty. By all means this also includes education and outreach... but as important as monetary reform education is... I feel outreach in "alternative economy" is equally as important and much more practical amongst the masses.
    Last edited by presence; 12-01-2014 at 09:09 AM.

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...


  13. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by H. E. Panqui View Post
    Alex Jones
    Poor Jones, getting lumped in with that lot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sister Miriam Godwinson View Post
    We Must Dissent.

  14. #72
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    presence :You lump Alex Jones in there? What about the steady stream of content he reposts such as:

    spikender: Poor Jones, getting lumped in with that lot.



    (ok...i admit i've a grudge against the stinking Republican operative, jones,...i admit he's down near the bottom on the list of the worst media scumbags and doesn't deserve to be lumped with the likes of stinking Limbaugh and Louis Rusegeyser...i was surprised jones had bill still on his show...what?...once?..some years ago?...i do enjoy max keiser...jesse ventura...some others...but let's get real...he's trying to conflate honest decent libertarians/ism with stinking miserable 'conservatives/ism', tea party, etc. Republican activists..i like his stance 'on guns'..the rest of his message is LARGELY Republican-tainted in some/many subtle and not-so-subtle ways imo...

    ...thanks for the money info, presence..good stuff.....i'd give you some points if i have any and knew how..that is, if william told hasn't bankrupted me into the red yet...
    Last edited by H. E. Panqui; 12-02-2014 at 08:12 AM.



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    Presence writes: "...Personally... I find trading and buying with bitcoin, bartering my labor for tangibles, being self employed, supporting my local economy, as well as producing my own food through farming and hunting are great ways to distance myself from fractional reserve banking and the monetary system. That is... rather than get caught in what I cannot do... focus on what I can do to enhance my freedom and economic liberty. By all means this also includes education and outreach... but as important as monetary reform education is... I feel outreach in "alternative economy" is equally as important and much more practical amongst the masses." (end)

    (I agree with some of what you write...although honestly ['distancing yourself'] from....'the monetary system' is impossible today, unless maybe you are a very skillful 'Indian' on 'untaxed land'...

    ...let's get real...we can live without using bitcoin, 'barter,' self-employment, personal food production, hunting, etc...BUT..unless you, or someone else in your behalf, doesn't acquire/use federal reserve notes ('dollars' to the brainwa$hed Republicrat mullets) you are dead/in jail/in BIG trouble very quickly...

    ...and if anybody has any time for 'politics' and they aren't talking about this mi$erable $tinking fraud...they're wasting time...and their breath...
    Last edited by H. E. Panqui; 12-04-2014 at 07:51 AM.

  17. #74
    Bill Stills! Hahaha! The evil banks can't be trusted to issue money (I agree) but Congress can? The same Congress that gave the banks the monopoly on issuing money in the first place, continues to support that power, recently bailed out the banks to the tune of almost a trillion dollars in the face of strong public dissent, and has itself now run up a debt of $18 trillion? Oh, yes, Congress can be trusted with the monopoly on issuing money! Hahahahaha!
    The proper concern of society is the preservation of individual freedom; the proper concern of the individual is the harmony of society.

    "Who would be free, themselves must strike the blow." - Byron

    "Who overcomes by force, hath overcome but half his foe." - Milton

  18. #75
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    ...anyone ever hear of this guy?..(David Astle)

    http://www.whale.to/c/Babylonian_Woe.pdf

    IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE WORD
    Every conclusion arrived at as a result of study of the fragments of information available in respect to money and its creators in the world of the Ancient Civilizations, indicates the existence of a far reaching conspiracy in respect to monetary issuance influencing the progression of man’s history in the earliest times of which written record exists. It is also outstandingly clear that it was parent to that acknowledged and most obvious conspiracy such as exists today.1
    The whole notion of the institution of precious metals by weight as common denominator of exchanges, internationally and nationally, cannot but have been disseminated by a conspiratorial organization fully aware of the extent of the power to which it would accede, could it but maintain control over bullion supplies and the mining which brought them into being in the first place.
    Clearly such notion had originally come into being during that historically distant period when first of all free silver began to be extensively used as a convenient and highly portable commodity in settlement of balances outstanding in foreign trade; certainly as far back as Neolithic times. This fact was indicated by the evidence existing that values (and by inference money) were already expressed in terms of silver by weight at the time of the Azag-Bau Dynasty at Kish in Mesopotamia (3268-2897 B.C.); although in a sense perhaps narrow and strictly national.
    According to tablets unearthed recording a sale of land, the sellers were known as “The eaters of the silver of the field.”2 This expression clearly showed a connection between the conception of money as an abstract unit in circulation, and silver, the tangible material on which the symbols of this money were later recorded. Such silver would then be valued according to the ancient customs of the international trade routes which were manifested in the rules of the travelling merchants who controlled these routes; these rules being established towards the better regulation of exchanges between themselves.
    In other words, as a result of the establishment of the custom of settlement of balances in external trade by silver bullion byweight, it seems that a system of values had grown up in the cities of Mesopotamia, over what period of time it would be impossible to say for sure, in terms of those accepted values of definite weights of silver bullion in such external trade, relative to the staples of life: barley, dates, etc. That sales are recorded in the 4th Millennium B.C. means that even at that time there was a clear conception of the significance of the abstract monetary unit, which is in itself an integral part of the law structure of any state, for such sales were in terms of money. The true meaning of such a concept being largely incomprehensible to most even as in this day, except they were the truly initiated, those controlling the internal exchanges, namely the priesthood and scribes, might well be excused if they early fell into the error of expressing values in terms of the standard of values in international trade. This serious error brought about finally, not only the collapse of that power through whose medium the god kings were best able to serve their peoples, but also as a further consequence, the collapse and fading of the meaning and benevolent purpose of the god kings themselves.
    With silver bullion controlled by an international and conspiratorial minded group, as indeed it is obvious it must have been, considering the main sources of silver supply as being far away from those centres of civilization whose money depended on it and yet with people coming to equate money, in actuality the law of the ruler, with value according to the law created in the exchanges by the custom of the use of that same privately controlled commodity, then it becomes quite clear that scarcity or plenty in money, whatever way it was evinced in the circulation, depended on the manipulations internationally of that group controlling the distribution of precious metal bullion, and the plenty or scarcity they created, as was convenient to them. If there was no silver, why then! there was no money, and prices fell. Substitute gold for silver, and history seeming to fast repeat itself, we have the condition of the European world of the last 2000 years. If there was no gold, Why then again! There was no money!...
    Last edited by H. E. Panqui; 12-12-2014 at 08:27 AM.

  19. #76
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    ...I have found that although most people (virtually all 'Republicrats') think they ('basically') know about 'money,' they are surely butt-ignorant..and not only 'Occupy Vancouver' Republicrat parrots, but the Tea Party/Patriot movement/'Liberty' Republicrat parrots too!..when it comes to 'money' Republicrat butt-ignorance is the rule..below is a great attempt to expose this ignorance..albeit with Canadian 'Republicrat' monetary ignoramuses/parrots..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ahx-LPIkY4


    Last edited by H. E. Panqui; 12-15-2014 at 07:45 AM.

  20. #77
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    I feel it's necessary to remind people that 'money' ('dollars' to Republicrat monetary ignoramuses) is maybe the most desired/necessary man-made 'thing.' It is at the root of most 'political' problems, discussions, etc. If you don't acquire 'it' and use 'it' (or if someone else doesn't use 'it' in your behalf) you are in BIG TROUBLE QUICKLY..dead/in jail/both...

    It would seem the HIDEOUS origin and nature of thi$ important commodity would be a $ubject of concern, curiosity...but Republicrats completely gloss over the REALITIES/FACTS of this stinking system of fraud, privilege, secrecy, etc. It's almost as if they're saying, 'oh we needn't concern ourselves with the money system..it's waaaaay too complicated..but don't worry, some angelic geniuses, some Republicrat doctors of economics from haaavaaad and yale are running the system with our best interests in mind.."

    Or maybe some think 'money' results automatically as a result of economic activity?!..or maybe 'in god they trust?!'..I don't know what they 'think'..i think they don't think at all..

    I do know I have talked to many MANY Republicrats who enjoy yacking about the illion 'dollar' economy who have absolutely no honest idea how even one stinking 'dollar' originates..

    ...and I do know that NOT ONE current stinking Republicrat office-holder will talk about thi$ miserable fraud honestly and publicly..

    ...and so the Republicrat beat will go on..
    Last edited by H. E. Panqui; 12-17-2014 at 08:37 AM.

  21. #78
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    Acala Hannity's: Oh, yes, Congress can be trusted with the monopoly on issuing money! Hahahahaha!



    (I believe you'll find the authors of the Con. trusted 'Congress' 'with the monopoly on issuing money'...please acquire and read a Con.....esp. Art. 1, Sec. 8, clause 5)

  22. #79
    nm
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only want the freedoms that will undermine the nation and lead to the destruction of liberty.

  23. #80
    nm? No Mas! Don't give up so easy. Enjoy this award winning film on Money. - http://youtu.be/5fbvquHSPJU



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    nm? No Mas! Don't give up so easy.


    (i was taken aback by his quick tap-out...usually they bet and play their lo$ing hand$ longer than that..good for him though...smart enough to fold quickly when panqui's holding a royal flu$h...)

    Here's some good reading for Republicrat cheerleaders/apologists from a RARE old fellow Republicrat who truly under$tood:


    Voorhis' analysis of the Federal Reserve System and of banking in general never descended from the plane of a pure systems-analysis to the Jew-baiting and racial slurs of the crypto-fascists, who then as now also made an issue of the Fed. A genuine progressive, he knew that usury is a matter of class privilege and class oppression and can not be termed a function of a "Jewish bankers' conspiracy."
    "It is ethically wrong for any private person or agency to enjoy the privilege of creating money, and for the same reason that it would be wrong to give one citizen the right to levy a tax upon another one. The power to create money, either in the form of currency or credit, pocketbook money or checkbook money, is the precise equivalent of the power to tax. Anyone exercising the power to createa new dollar can use it to require a dollar's worth of the labor or the property of a fellow citizen without giving anything of value in exchange. "
    (Beyond Victory, 1944)Jerry Voorhis was driven from office in 1946 by the red baiting techniques of a young veteran, recently returned from the Pacific Theater - naval lieutenant Richard Nixon. Nixon, detailed to go after Voorhis, was the recipient of big monies from eastern financial elements. According to William Costello,
    "...the representative of a large New York financial house made a trip toCalifornia in October 1945, about the time the Committee of One Hundred was picking Nixon, and called upon a number of influential people in Southern California. The emissary "bawled them out" for permitting Voorhis, whom he described as "one of the most dangerous men in Washington" to "continue to represent a part of California in the House..."
    Jerry Voorhis On The Federal Reserve:
    THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES SAYS:
    "Congress shall have power to Coin money and regulate the value thereof. "Congress does no such thing, which is the heart of our trouble. Private banks coin our money and regulate its value. In doing so they take from the government and people of the United States a large chunk of their sovereignty, a large chunk of the taxing power, and the key to a prosperous economy without inflation. For example, in testimony before the Banking and Currency Committee of the House of Representatives in 1935, Marriner Eccles, then Chairman of the Federal Reserve Board itself, said:
    "In purchasing offerings of Government bonds, the banking system as a whole creates new money, or bank deposits. When the banks buy a billion dollars of Government bonds as they are offered - and you have to consider the banking system as a whole as a unit - the banks credit the deposit account of the Treasury with a billion dollars. They debit their Government bond account a billion dollars; or they actually create, by a bookkeeping entry, a billion dollars."
    ...This is, of course, the "fractional reserve system" of banking. It is more or less controlled by the Federal Reserve System, whose only stock is held by the private banks of the Federal Reserve System. Not a single share of such stock is held by the government or people of the United States, although if "national sovereignty" means anything at all, these banks of issue should be the property of the nation. But what actually happens when our government engages in deficit financing? The obvious way the government can get more buying power into the people's hands is by itself putting more money into the stream of commerce than it takes out in taxes. The tragedy of the situation is that, up to date, the only way our government has enabled itself to spend more money than it takes in has been by forcing this sovereign nation to borrow its own credit from private sources....the sovereign government of the United States goes hat in hand to the private banking system and asks it to create the new money that the economy needs. The government gives - the word isused advisedly - it gives to the banking system, including the Federal Reserve banks, government bonds, the debt of all the people. Interest-bearing bonds,that is, bonds bearing as high an interest rate under today's regime as the banks decide to demand. Else they won't buy the bonds.The banks "buy" the bonds with newly created demand deposit entries on their books - nothing more. It is fountain-pen money and considerably more inflationary than would be the same amount of dollar bills created by the government. The deposits the banks create with which to own the people's debt are backed by nothing except the bonds themselves! In other words, they are backed by the credit of the American people. What the government has "borrowed" from the banks, what the people must for years pay interest on, is nothing more nor less than the credit of the nation, which obviously the nation possessed in the first place or the bonds themselves would be no good!..But this is only part of the story. And the less discouraging part, at that. For where the commercial banks are concerned, there is no such repayment of the people's money. When the commercial banks create money, as they do when they acquire government bonds, they levy a tax on every person in the United States. This is so because every new dollar that is created makes every dollar previously in existence worth somewhat less than it was worth before. This is the very heart of inflation. It is also taxation without representation with a vengeance. Until this system is changed, our debt will continue to skyrocket without limit and the fixing of debt limits by the Congress will continue to be an exercise in utter futility.
    What ought to be done?
    Banks should lend existing money. But, as the Constitution clearly requires, the money (or credit) of the nation should never be created by any private agency, but by an agency of the nation itself. It is the duty of Congress to provide for this by a carefully drawn statute.The stock in Federal Reserve Banks should be purchased by the government from their present private bank owners. The Federal Reserve should then become our national bank of issue. It should create reserve Bank Credit as it does now. But that credit should be credited to the United States Treasury, not charged against it and the people as debt. As much such new credit should be created each year as is needed to keep our economy running at or near capacity - and no more than that. A stable price level could result.Then and only then can we expect to overcome recessions, to put our people to work, and do this without the artifice of inflation and the ever-increasing debt which are incapable under the present monetary system of ever being paid off. -Jerry Voorhis, The Strange Case of Richard Milhous Nixon, 1973http://www.paleoprogressives.org/jerry-voorhis.html
    Last edited by H. E. Panqui; 01-22-2015 at 08:11 AM.

  26. #82

  27. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by H. E. Panqui View Post
    Acala Hannity's: Oh, yes, Congress can be trusted with the monopoly on issuing money! Hahahahaha!



    (I believe you'll find the authors of the Con. trusted 'Congress' 'with the monopoly on issuing money'...please acquire and read a Con.....esp. Art. 1, Sec. 8, clause 5)
    The power to coin money is hardly the same as the MONOPOLY power over money so, no, the Constitution does not grant the government monopoly control over money (although it does prohibit the States from coining money). But even if it did, that doesn't make it good policy. Obviously, the Constitution had failed to restrain government and so is a less than perfect document.

    Experience shows, beyond any doubt, that Congress cannot be trusted to act responsibly and must be restrained as heavily as possible. Giving Congress monopoly power over money is exactly as foolish as giving the Banks such power. Neither you nor Bill Stills have responded to this criticism in a rational way.
    The proper concern of society is the preservation of individual freedom; the proper concern of the individual is the harmony of society.

    "Who would be free, themselves must strike the blow." - Byron

    "Who overcomes by force, hath overcome but half his foe." - Milton

  28. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Acala View Post
    (although it does prohibit the States from coining money)
    It only prevents the states from coining anything but silver or gold. Which is a strong clue that the founding fathers were all about competing currencies.

    And this thread is an odd place to attempt to engage in clear and rational discourse.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only want the freedoms that will undermine the nation and lead to the destruction of liberty.

  29. #85
    the Constitution does not grant the government monopoly control over money (although it does prohibit the States from coining money). But even if it did, that doesn't make it good policy. Obviously, the Constitution had failed to restrain government and so is a less than perfect document

    -

    * If a criminal breaks a law, does that mean the Law is bad?

  30. #86
    From the U.S. Consitution "To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

    To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States" - http://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_A1Sec8.html

  31. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post

    And this thread is an odd place to attempt to engage in clear and rational discourse.
    Ahahahahaha! You are so right my friend. I have a hard time standing by when someone starts shilling for Bill Stills' nonesense. But I will let it go.
    The proper concern of society is the preservation of individual freedom; the proper concern of the individual is the harmony of society.

    "Who would be free, themselves must strike the blow." - Byron

    "Who overcomes by force, hath overcome but half his foe." - Milton

  32. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Coffman View Post
    Obviously, the Constitution had failed to restrain government and so is a less than perfect document

    -

    * If a criminal breaks a law, does that mean the Law is bad?
    Of course it is. The founding fathers were obviously negligent and short sighted to design a Constitution that didn't have automated drones built into the sheepskin that could discern who was violating it and kill them instantly.

    What a bunch of losers. If they couldn't make life into a science fiction movie, they had no business trying to start a nation at all. Why did people even bother living at all before technology made it possible for them to be full-on, highly effective tyrants?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only want the freedoms that will undermine the nation and lead to the destruction of liberty.



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  34. #89
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    acala kudlows: Giving Congress monopoly power over money is exactly as foolish as giving the Banks such power.



    (GOOD GRIEF! Please acquire and read a constitution!!...'the founders' gave 'Congress' precisely that 'power'!! (ART. 1, SEC. 8, cl.5) ...'Congress' has exercised this power by creating a franken$tein monster that ?your gd fool Republicrats ignore, promote, etc..get real, man!)

    actuptulsa Republicrats: And this thread is an odd place to attempt to engage in clear and rational discourse.



    (lol!...you will, of course, provide me a link to a better discussion 'thread' where i might engage?
    ..get real, put away your worse-than childish Republicrat monetary theory, myth..

  35. #90

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