I've been hearing that for years, and yet everytime I go to the store I find more and more products labeled non-gmo.Originally Posted by green73
You have a link to precinct by precinct results in Multnomah? Plus maybe one from 2010?
New Numbers from Multnomah
State Measure 92
Vote for 1
Yes . . . . . . . . . . . . 177,830 62.40
No. . . . . . . . . . . . . 107,150 37.60
These new numbers do not help as much as expected. the margin goes from 66K to 70K, a gain of 4K, but not the 7K or 10K as expected.
New Clackmas
YES 0 0.00% 70,351 46.76% 70,351 46.76%
NO 0 0.00% 80,102 53.24% 80,102 53.24%
This is about 500 more nos. Not as bad as predicted which was 2K. 10000 + 500 - 4000.
Lane appears unchanged - or those were final numbers above.
Last edited by parocks; 11-06-2014 at 11:46 PM.
Only for the general elections. Ballot measures I have what everyone else has with the exception of some word of mouth here and there. Working with paper ballots as well.
Last edited by Natural Citizen; 11-06-2014 at 11:50 PM.
Lane is only reporting around 93% the last I heard. Where are you getting these from?
Technically waiting on 4 counties.
What percentage of precincts is counted for Multnomah and Clackamas Counties? I want to plug these new numbers back into my spreadsheet.
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I don't know if those Clackamas numbers are accurate.
http://www.clackamas.us/elections/results.html
https://multco.us/elections
100 on both, according to this but you should check them out.
Plugging these new numbers into my spreadsheet as per post #86, my projection now looks like:
yes - 738277 = 49.85%
no - 742799 = 50.15%
So it's widened slightly, for failing. However, this new projection factors in the final tally from the county it was doing worst in. Therefore, the final tallies from the last two counties (where it was doing better) will narrow the gap again. If the projections hold exactly to the current percentages in the last two counties, it will very narrowly fail (to the point of recounts, lawsuits, etc), and the previous projection will be pretty accurate. The only chance of it outright passing (even very narrowly) is if the remaining votes to be tallied outperform the current percentages in the two remaining counties. This is going to be very, very close.
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+rep
Last edited by Suzanimal; 11-07-2014 at 06:17 AM.
green73 said quite a mouthful there when he summed up his logic with that line about infiltration. Hopefully he decides to follow up on that so that we may better understand the phenomenon. That's a rather broad topic itself aside from placing it into context with these particular citizens initiatives.
+repOriginally Posted by green73
The only libertarian thing you GMO people should be fighting for is allowing non-GMO producers to be able to label their food as such, something currently illegal. Why is that not the focus of your fight? I'll tell you why...infiltration.
Last edited by Natural Citizen; 11-07-2014 at 08:32 AM.
“The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner
Actually, his argument is also correct. The real problem here is that the gov't has stacked the deck, allowing fraud to take place. The GMO people aren't required to tell you what they are actually selling you, and those who want to sell non-GMO aren't allowed to tell you what they're selling you (although, as correctly pointed out, some products ARE labeled non-GMO --how is this possible?). Solving either half of this equation would protect against fraud, either or both solutions are legitimate and would remove the distortions of the free market.
Also, as you point out, you can't say that something is the same, when that same something HAS to be unique for a patent to be issued. This is another case of out gov't being bought off, and the deck being stacked so that the free market is being distorted and not allowed to work. There is also the issue of cross-contamination, with the courts stacking the deck even further.
The real infiltration happening here is that of the monsanto shills into every thread where the topic of GMO's happens to pop up. Every time it happens, out come the shills, like clockwork. They trot out the same old arguments against a mandate, and while those arguments may look correct on the surface, they do not address the entire picture of how the deck has been stacked on several levels. Looked at from the narrow perspective of which it is presented, their argument is correct. However, it fails when ALL of the distortions of the free market are examined as a whole, and viewed from the correct perspective of BOTH the free market being allowed to work without being distorted, and that preventing fraud is a legitimate function of gov't.
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Yes, I actually agree with his argument. It's his justification there with the line about infiltration that caught my interest. Especially when placed into context with "you GMO people". This personifies green73'sbenchmark for demonstrating political infiltration. libertarianism often serves as the very stalking horse for fascism itself and so infiltration could be debated in a very broad way. I was just thinking that if we want to point fingers then lets do it right is all. You know? Although I do tend to try to avoid that kind of I, me, they, them, us discussion in practice.
Of course, If we take the single case where we saw Monsanto, and the so called all wonderful, all mighty, glorious defenders of liberty, the Koch netork , and what they did when they teamed up and hired the services of Congressman Mike Pompeo to introduce that mercantilist legislation that they penned up that would enforce into law to make it so that people had no means to know what was in their food and that states had no right to protect their citizens from this "government" intrusion we could certainly call that infiltration. What that serves is to protect these mercantilist monopolies from the free market by legally blocking any means for the consumer to make an informed choice. That's political infrastructure that they are using there. And I'll tell you what. It's strikingly similar to the logistics of the TPP in that we see these mercantilist companies and the politicians that they're funding setting up a system where they can legally trash the sovereignty of those whose laws they think will affect their future profits.
Backstory to that is here, btw, but I'll share a snippet below. Of course, we didn't seem to see anyone chime in on that thread with any accusations of infiltration. As I said, libertarianism is often the stalking horse for fascism itself and this is merely one specific example. And, really, I'm only sharing this because it is specific to what is being discussed here in this thread. It's actually a very broad phenomenon that could be expanded upon with regard to many political issues and legislation...
Here is a thread with a bit more thorough discussion that particualr bill and the work of these so called liberty loving superstars...
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...onsanto-backed
But green73's labeling argument itself, yes, I agree.
Rep. Mike Pompeo will introduce legislation backed by powerful trade groups to prevent states from passing laws requiring the labeling of genetically-modified foods, according to reports. The bill is linked to biotech giant Monsanto and Koch Industries.
Pompeo will offer the bill in the US House before Congress leaves for Easter recess later this month, The Hill newspaper reported, citing industry sources. Politico also reported on the impending proposal. Pompeo’s office would not comment on the congressman’s intentions for a labeling restriction. The bill includes a “prohibition against mandatory labeling,” according to The Hill, echoing powerful interest groups that have already declared war against such “right to know” labeling laws around the nation.
It was revealed in recent months that powerful farming and biotechnology interest groups like Monsanto were joining forces – under the name 'Coalition for Safe Affordable Food' – to push a federal voluntary labeling standard for food made with genetically-modified organisms (GMOs) in an effort to stem the tide of state legislation seeking to mandate labeling.
Pompeo, a Republican from Kansas, has numerous ties to Charles and David Koch, heads of the formidable multinational corporation Koch Industries.
Pompeo founded Thayer Aerospace (now Nex-Tech Aerospace) with investment funds from Koch Industries. He then was named president of Sentry International, an oilfield equipment company that partners with Koch Industries.
In his initial run for Congress in 2010, Pompeo received more money from the Kochs than any other politician. Once in the House, the congressman introduced bills sympathetic to Koch Industries, The Washington Post reported.
Koch Industries’ subsidiary, Georgia-Pacific, is also a member of the Grocery Manufacturers Association.
“GMA’s selection of Congressman Pompeo as their champion shows how extreme the proposal really is,” said Colin O’Neil, director of government affairs for the Center for Food Safety. “Selecting Pompeo creates an unholy alliance between Monsanto and Koch Industries, two of the most reviled corporations in America.”
Last edited by Natural Citizen; 11-07-2014 at 11:59 AM.
Be responsible by asking what you want to ask, be aware by being aware.
If you have no idea, you can ask, don't complain if nobody wants to answer though.
Nobody is stopping you from asking, and nobody is forcing you to buy, buy what you like, stop making me pay the government to force people to label when only you want to know.
Wanna play this "flip the script" $#@! game? Oh, so you must already know every bit about every single process and atom of the food you buy, or else you refuse to buy or want to force a label on it?
pcosmar's lie : There are more votes than registered Voters..
95% of est. votes counted
Yes 719,551 49.7% No 729,641 50.3%
Should pop open here soon with the last couple of counties due out. Those were voting overwhelmingly in the yes side of things. Will see, I suppose. Still paper ballots mailed and post dated out there...
Last edited by Natural Citizen; 11-07-2014 at 07:10 PM.
Wow, insanely close. Whatever the outcome, I'm sure that'll teach people to vote.
pcosmar's lie : There are more votes than registered Voters..
Who the hell needs Monsanto? Their biggest GMO foods are basically unnecessary for human existence anyway. White potatoes and soy are garbage. Oil has some limited use, but the fact that people mostly cook it makes it crap. Corn is so sweet today that you might as well scrap it with the cotton candy-no taste-hybridized apples. Animals that are fed grain are nowhere near the quality of grass fed, so scrap that. And they think they're going to concoct a salmon as good tasting as wild? Yeah, lay it on me, dipshits.
Tomatoes are about the only thing worthwhile; however, those are so easy to grown, that many should be able to cut down on store bought.
Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members
so who/what DO we need?
pcosmar's lie : There are more votes than registered Voters..
Trimming...
> 95% of est. votes counted as of 6:24 pm
Yes 729,797 49.8% No 736,711 50.2%
11th we should have all of the mail ins tallied also.
Put my helmet back on fer battle.
I think they're stalling, boys. Heh...
Last edited by Natural Citizen; 11-08-2014 at 08:44 PM.
Interesting to see it closing in very closely to my projection. Do you have the latest vote totals and percent counted, for each of those last two counties? Or a link to them? If so, I'd like to put them back into my spreadsheet and see if it affects the projected result.
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Nope. I just walked in the door about a half hour or so ago. Clackamas county did show a drop earlier in the day, though, once those were tallied but looks like we're seeing what we'd mentioned with regard to those last two counties which were overwhelmingly voting yes.
I'll go take a peek and try to find them, though. The crap of it is they aren't reliable and we get different results depending on our source. I'm kind of word of mouthing it here.
I'll be baaack....in my best Schwarzenegger impression.
Last edited by Natural Citizen; 11-08-2014 at 09:10 PM.
The only thing is, if those last two counties hold to the same percentage of yes vs no votes, it still won't be enough to "catch up" and pass according to my projections. For it to pass, the percentage of yes votes in both counties would have to increase, rather than continue to hold at the same rate. Many thanks for keeping us all up to date with those vote totals!
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Win or lose this particular citizen initiative, we live to fight another day. And we will fight another day. And every day. These initiatives will continue to show up during every cycle. And, of course, what we're seeing here is that 25 million smakaroonies from these out of state chemical companies can't and won't buy them love.
But aside from that spew I do have some county totals for State Ballot Measure No. 92 thus far. Here you go. It's not very useful, though. http://oregonvotes.gov/results/2014G/2013928344.html
Aside from that, voters have 14 days to fix their ballot if it is returned to them due to a signature dispute which we've seen happen several times. Many have provided feedback with regard to that as others prepared to vote. Deadline is the 18th and, of course, at .2% we're talking war. Recounts and whatnot like you'd mentioned previously.
Last edited by Natural Citizen; 11-08-2014 at 09:42 PM.
GMO isn't "in our food." It's a process.
Youre confusing the words "poisionous" and "toxic." Actually, just about everything is toxic - it's the dose that's important. Low levels are beneficial, high levels are not. That's true of water as well as fluoride, as well as all the vitamins and minerals you can name.
But to stay on topic, there is an overwhelming amount of evidence from all across the planet from the complete spectrum of scientific bodies (private, public, academic, independent, and industry) that speaks to the safety of the process. At this point it's pretty clear that people shreiking that they haven't been tested and/or they're dangerous are simply never going to be convinced otherwise.
Cognitive dissonance.
WHen someone says that, it's a pretty clear sign that that person will actually *NEVER* have any idea what they're buying but labeling isn't the problem. The school system is.
By all means, explain to us exactly what's in them thar GMO food that isn't in that thar other stuff.
Last edited by angelatc; 11-08-2014 at 09:45 PM.
./
Last edited by specsaregood; 05-16-2016 at 10:24 PM.
Looks like someone added exactly 1000 NO votes at 8:31 pm Nothing added to YES...
> 95% of est. votes counted
Yes 729,797 49.7% No 737,711 50.3%
Can't make this stuff up.
It's so close and a .2 difference means an automatic recount. Is strange to see exactly 1000 votes added to the NO vote and nothing at all changing on the YES side of things.
Last edited by Natural Citizen; 11-09-2014 at 12:19 AM.
Nothing strange about rigging elections. That's the norm anymore.
“The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner
You can't have it both ways, if they rig it, why rig it so close?Nothing strange about rigging elections. That's the norm anymore.
Either voting makes a difference or there's rigger, it can't be both, make your mind up already.
pcosmar's lie : There are more votes than registered Voters..
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