Three Reasons You Should Not Care about Election Day

[Ronin Truth]

Three Reasons You Should Not Care about Election Day

Laurence M. Vance

Actually, the lame article is titled “3 Reasons You Should Care about Election Day.” It is an article by a Christian about how “American Christians should be politically principled, informed, opinionated, and involved.” By involved the author means involved by voting. I agree with the author’s first three things, but since I am politically principled, informed, and opinionated I will not be voting. Three reasons I don’t care about election day are: 1. Voting for the lesser of two evils is still evil. 2. “Every election is a sort of advance auction sale of stolen goods” ~ H.L. Mencken. 3. The only way to vote against crook A and crook B is to not vote.

2:58 pm on October 30, 2014

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"If one takes care of the means, the end will take care of itself."

[CaptUSA]

And 3 reasons why you could:

Thomas Massie
Justin Amash
Rand Paul

It is possible to get good people elected. They could use some help.

[Ronin Truth]

And 3 reasons why you could:

Thomas Massie
Justin Amash
Rand Paul

It is possible to get good people elected. They could use some help.

Three out of ~500+ does not a government make.

I always fully support a generously help everyone I want to see get elected.

[presence]

1. Voting for the lesser of two evils is still evil.
2. “Every election is a sort of advance auction sale of stolen goods” ~ H.L. Mencken.
3. The only way to vote against crook A and crook B is to not vote.

4. Voting is tacit concent to be ruled over.
5. Black box voting is a sham less truthful than internet polls.
6. Globalist power brokers, money, and lobbyists decide who will be elected (and who is the backup plan) long before anyone votes.
7. Boobus is so "programmed" with nightly news propoganda that he's largely brainwashed of reason.
8. The people who count the votes decide everything. -Stalin
9. The two party system is two sides of the same worthless coin.
10. We imprison more voters than all other nations combined.
11. All too many inconvenient votes are stripped on account of non violent "felonies"
12. Public education serves as a political indoctrination camp further "programming" our children
13. Most Americans who do vote are largely illiterate of current events, foreign policy, and couldn't name the duties of the officer they are electing
14. Boobus would rather elect a woman, black, latino, or gay than consider the issues any of them are pushing
15. Voting brings reform and we desperately need revolution.


I could go on and on.

[CaptUSA]

4. Voting is tacit concent to be ruled over.
5. Black box voting is a sham less truthful than internet polls.
6. Globalist power brokers, money, and lobbyists decide who will be elected (and who is the backup plan) long before anyone votes.
7. Boobus is so "programmed" with nightly news propoganda that he's largely brainwashed of reason.
8. The people who count the votes decide everything. -Stalin
9. The two party system is two sides of the same worthless coin.
10. We imprison more voters than all other nations combined.
11. All too many inconvenient votes are stripped on account of non violent "felonies"
12. Public education serves as a political indoctrination camp further "programming" our children
13. Most Americans who do vote are largely illiterate of current events, foreign policy, and couldn't name the duties of the officer they are electing
14. Boobus would rather elect a woman, black, latino, or gay than consider the issues any of them are pushing
15. Voting brings reform and we desperately need revolution.


I could go on and on.

4. Your consent is not needed. Breathing is implied consent to those who would rule over you.
5. Probably, but still good candidates can get elected.
6. Amash, Massie, and the Pauls suggest that is not always the case.
7. Can't argue with that.
8. Or that. But, we have broken through before.
9. It's the system we have - there are those working to fix at least one side of the coin.
10. Yep.
11. Yep.
12. 100% yep!
13. Yep.
14. Nah, I think they'll elect whoever the media tells them to.
15. That is certainly an opinion... Maybe we should vote on it. (Remember, even the American revolution was first voted upon.)


Neverminding the inconsistencies in your list, I still understand your points. (One on hand, you talk about the numbers not counting, on the other, you talk about being outnumbered.)

My position is, and always has been:

If you don't want to vote, don't.
If you don't want to stand up to the police, don't.
If you don't want to educate the next generation, don't.

But don't try to dissuade anyone else from taking the path they choose to be most valuable. Work towards your positive goals instead of working towards negative ones.

[Ronin Truth]

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- Ben Franklin

[Ronin Truth]

4. Your consent is not needed. Breathing is implied consent to those who would rule over you.
5. Probably, but still good candidates can get elected.
6. Amash, Massie, and the Pauls suggest that is not always the case.
7. Can't argue with that.
8. Or that. But, we have broken through before.
9. It's the system we have - there are those working to fix at least one side of the coin.
10. Yep.
11. Yep.
12. 100% yep!
13. Yep.
14. Nah, I think they'll elect whoever the media tells them to.
15. That is certainly an opinion... Maybe we should vote on it. (Remember, even the American revolution was first voted upon.)


Neverminding the inconsistencies in your list, I still understand your points. (One on hand, you talk about the numbers not counting, on the other, you talk about being outnumbered.)

My position is, and always has been:

If you don't want to vote, don't.
If you don't want to stand up to the police, don't.
If you don't want to educate the next generation, don't.

But don't try to dissuade anyone else from taking the path they choose to be most valuable. Work towards your positive goals instead of working towards negative ones.

Statement of Purpose: Voluntaryists are advocates of non-political, non-violent strategies to achieve a free society. We reject electoral politics, in theory and in practice, as incompatible with libertarian principles. Governments must cloak their actions in an aura of moral legitimacy in order to sustain their power, and political methods invariably strengthen that legitimacy. Voluntaryists seek instead to delegitimize the State through education, and we advocate withdrawal of the cooperation and tacit consent on which State power ultimately depends.

http://voluntaryist.com/

[CaptUSA]

"The elective franchise, if guarded as the ark of our safety, will peaceably dissipate all combinations to subvert a Constitution, dictated by the wisdom, and resting on the will of the people. " - Thomas Jefferson

"The rational and peacable instrument of reform, the suffrage of the people." - Thomas Jefferson

"Let each citizen remember at the moment he is offering his vote that he is not making a present or a compliment to please an individual--or at least that he ought not so to do; but that he is executing one of the most solemn trusts in human society for which he is accountable to God and his country." - Samuel Adams

"Impress upon children the truth that the exercise of the elective franchise is a social duty of as solemn a nature as man can be called to perform; that a man may not innocently trifle with his vote; that every elector is a trustee as well for others as himself and that every measure he supports has an important bearing on the interests of others as well as on his own. " - Daniel Webster

We can both play this game. Kinda boring, don't you think?

[presence]

http://voluntaryist.com/

I think I have that, careful its contagious.

[Ronin Truth]

We can both play this game. Kinda boring, don't you think?

Nah, my boredom tolerance is pretty high.

Anarchism is founded on the observation that since few men are wise enough to rule themselves, even fewer are wise enough to rule others. -- Edward Abbey

[Christian Liberty]

Here are my thoughts on this:

I have a couple of very libertarian friends at my school (and they are ideally libertarians) who tried to convince me that I should support Paul Ryan because, even though he wanted to increase the size of the budget, he wanted to increase it less than the Democrats did, thus an ideal improvement.

I am not interested in that kind of game. Its one thing to accomplish a goal at a slower rate than you would like. Its another thing to move away from it at a slower rate than our enemies would like.

Rand Paul, Justin Amash, and Thomas Massie are probable exceptions to the general rule that electoral politics is pointless.

Even still, I do not know how much Paul, Amash, and Massie can actually do without significantly more help. At best they can make moderate libertarianism somewhat mainstream.

I wouldn't try to talk anyone out of voting provided their goals are more liberty. If their goals are more authoritarian conservatism*, I would try to talk them out of that. If they are going to vote for objectively bad candidates like Romney or Ryan, I will try to talk them out of that.

I'm also not really going to try to talk anyone out of NOT voting. I have an anarcho-capitalist friend that despises Rand Paul. I know where he's coming from and I've been there, even though I don't agree with it. He stands for liberty in his own ways. Its fine.

The real question would be, is the gospel coalition writer even thinking about candidates of the relatively exceptional quality that is Paul, Amash, or Massie when she wrote that article? Or is she just talking about Republicans in general?

Ultimately, I agree more with Vance (despite liking the gospel coalition in general) but I don't agree COMPLETELY with Vance. There are a few people who should care about election day. I'm not one of them. Not ATM.

[presence]

"Let each citizen remember at the moment he is offering his vote that he is not making a present or a compliment to please an individual--or at least that he ought not so to do; but that he is executing one of the most solemn trusts in human society for which he is accountable to God and his country." - Samuel Adams

"Impress upon children the truth that the exercise of the elective franchise is a social duty of as solemn a nature as man can be called to perform; that a man may not innocently trifle with his vote; that every elector is a trustee as well for others as himself and that every measure he supports has an important bearing on the interests of others as well as on his own. " - Daniel Webster

in other words...

[Christian Liberty]

For what its worth, I didn't read Vance's comment as an attack on voting for Paul, Amash, or Massie, even though I suspect he wouldn't do so. Vance has agreed with me in emails that Rand is better than most Republicans (though he also said, as I would, that Ron Paul is better). I more read Vance's comment as an attack on the whole reflexive "you just have to vote" mentality than specifically voting for solid candidates.

[Christian Liberty]

Quoting the Founders in THIS discussion is silly. Hamilton would probably love the monster he set into motion. Jefferson would be reaching for a rifle. I doubt anybody would be voting one way or another.

[Ronin Truth]

Here are my thoughts on this:

I have a couple of very libertarian friends at my school (and they are ideally libertarians) who tried to convince me that I should support Paul Ryan because, even though he wanted to increase the size of the budget, he wanted to increase it less than the Democrats did, thus an ideal improvement.

I am not interested in that kind of game. Its one thing to accomplish a goal at a slower rate than you would like. Its another thing to move away from it at a slower rate than our enemies would like.

Rand Paul, Justin Amash, and Thomas Massie are probable exceptions to the general rule that electoral politics is pointless.

Even still, I do not know how much Paul, Amash, and Massie can actually do without significantly more help. At best they can make moderate libertarianism somewhat mainstream.

I wouldn't try to talk anyone out of voting provided their goals are more liberty. If their goals are more authoritarian conservatism*, I would try to talk them out of that. If they are going to vote for objectively bad candidates like Romney or Ryan, I will try to talk them out of that.

I'm also not really going to try to talk anyone out of NOT voting. I have an anarcho-capitalist friend that despises Rand Paul. I know where he's coming from and I've been there, even though I don't agree with it. He stands for liberty in his own ways. Its fine.

The real question would be, is the gospel coalition writer even thinking about candidates of the relatively exceptional quality that is Paul, Amash, or Massie when she wrote that article? Or is she just talking about Republicans in general?

Ultimately, I agree more with Vance (despite liking the gospel coalition in general) but I don't agree COMPLETELY with Vance. There are a few people who should care about election day. I'm not one of them. Not ATM.

FWIW, your friends sound more like Libertarians than libertarians. Ask them about the NAP.

[donnay]

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- Ben Franklin

I don't recall (pun intended) Franklin being quoted as saying that.

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein

[TheTexan]

Voting at all is explicit approval of voting as a concept.

And voting on what privileges we'd like to have or not have is a great concept, so please, vote.

[thoughtomator]

All the real decisions were already made during the primary season.

I'm not bothering to vote this week for a number of reasons, but mostly because even if the elections were totally legit, there's no point - not a single remotely competitive race, and not a single candidate or issue I care about is on the ballot.

[Ronin Truth]

I don't recall (pun intended) Franklin being quoted as saying that.

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...22.pDglSKtc5GQ

[Ronin Truth]

Voting at all is explicit approval of voting as a concept.

And voting on what privileges we'd like to have or not have is a great concept, so please, vote.

"We shall get nowhere until we start by recognizing that political behavior is largely non-rational, that the world is suffering from some kind of mental disease which must be diagnosed before it can be cured. " -- George Orwell

[donnay]

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...22.pDglSKtc5GQ

It appears we are both wrong. http://www.news.hypercrit.net/2012/1...idnt-say-that/

We need to find Lucille's thread about misattributed quotes.

[presence]

It is enough that the people know there was an election.

[William Tell]

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- Ben Franklin

Debunked:

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

• Misattributed to various people, including Albert Einstein and Mark Twain. An early occurrence was used as a teaching reference at University of California, Irvine in social science lectures in the later 1960s. Also found in a 1981 text from Narcotics Anonymous.

• http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Benjamin_Franklin#Misattributed

[Christian Liberty]

FWIW, your friends sound more like Libertarians than libertarians. Ask them about the NAP.

Their actual policies are probably closer to minarchism than anything else, and they generally think aggression is bad. But they're also much, much more pragmatic than I am.

[Occam's Banana]

I don't recall (pun intended) Franklin being quoted as saying that.

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...22.pDglSKtc5GQ

Well, let's see here:

We get 36,200 results for "ben franklin insanity doing same thing": https://www.google.com/#q=ben+frankl...ing+same+thing
We get 106,000 results for "ben franklin moon green cheese": https://www.google.com/#q=ben+frankl...n+green+cheese

So I guess we can conclude that either:

(1) it is about three times more certain that Ben Franklin said, "The moon is made of green cheese" than that he said "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results", OR

(2) citing Google search results as evidence of anything whatsoever is an utterly pointless waste of time.

I'm gonna hafta go with option number two on this one ...

[Matt Collins]

If you want to bring about change, simply showing up the the ballot box is only one step in the process... you have to work to get liberty candidates on the ballot and make them viable. You then also have to work the legislature during session to get your liberty legislation forward.

[Ronin Truth]

Their actual policies are probably closer to minarchism than anything else, and they generally think aggression is bad. But they're also much, much more pragmatic than I am.

When they see and understand that voting is ultimately aggression, they will be much closer to libertarian and voluntaryist.

[Ronin Truth]

If you want to bring about change, simply showing up the the ballot box is only one step in the process... you have to work to get liberty candidates on the ballot and make them viable. You then also have to work the legislature during session to get your liberty legislation forward.

Gee, and the difference between that and the statist activists functionally is? It's much easier to turn an activist into a libertarian, than it is to turn a libertarian into an activist.

[Ronin Truth]

It appears we are both wrong. http://www.news.hypercrit.net/2012/1...idnt-say-that/

We need to find Lucille's thread about misattributed quotes.

I like and agree with the quote for the idea behind it. Who said it first is just trivia, to me.

[donnay]

I like and agree with the quote for the idea behind it. Who said it first is just trivia, to me.

Agreed. It is a great quote, nevertheless.