Nurse refuses quarantine, State seeks to force her isolation

[CaptUSA]

I don't know, I'm having a hard time actually justifying this even though I obviously understand why pragmatically its a good idea. I really dislike violence.

I agree with you here, FF. Liberty requires responsibility. If we abdicate that to the State in order to keep us safe, then how do we make the argument that other rights should not be given up when it may, however tenuously, cause a potential danger. Any way you slice it, her rights are being violated.

I heard it said that more Americans have been married to Kim Kardashian than have died from Ebola. If we relinquish our liberties so easily when we bow to irrational fears, then when will it stop.

On the flip side, I can certainly see how a temporary quarantine after returning from a hot zone makes sense. I just wish we didn't have to violate rights to do it.

[Anti Federalist]

I agree with you here, FF. Liberty requires responsibility. If we abdicate that to the State in order to keep us safe, then how do we make the argument that other rights should not be given up when it may, however tenuously, cause a potential danger. Any way you slice it, her rights are being violated.

I heard it said that more Americans have been married to Kim Kardashian than have died from Ebola. If we relinquish our liberties so easily when we bow to irrational fears, then when will it stop.

On the flip side, I can certainly see how a temporary quarantine after returning from a hot zone makes sense. I just wish we didn't have to violate rights to do it.

Liberty does require responsibility. By not being responsible, she is fueling the "there needs to be a law" crowd.

Any conscientious health care worker would follow their oath and training and self quarantine, voluntarily.

If I were working our West Africa operations, I would not come near my home or family until a self imposed quarantine was up.

This is a PSYOP of some sort.

[presence]

Any conscientious health care worker would follow their oath and training and self quarantine, voluntarily.

Agreed, nonetheless:


Let there first be a victim before she is judged and sentenced for a crime.



I have no problem with the government saying you should not drive more than 55 mph on this highway.
I have a problem with the government saying you cannot drive more than 55 mph on this highway.


"No harm no foul" is the core of libertarian philosophy

The state's role is to define what is legally prudent self quarantine
and to deal with any crimes against VICTIMS of breach of quarantine IF THERE ARE ANY.

[pcosmar]

She works for the CDC. The CDC doesn't like quarantines, for some really crazy reason.

Hard to control an outbreak if people quarantine themselves.

[Created4]

would put the general population at risk of death without their knowledge or consent.

Sorry, but that is where your logic fails. There is NO evidence that Ebola is any more risk to the general population than other killer viruses people are walking around with every day. The orchestrated media has made Ebola into a doomsday scenario to get lucrative drugs and vaccines into the market and force them upon the public. This whole charade has happened before. Just like the 1976 Swine Flu made-up pandemic that had similar warnings as Ebola, but never materialized. The vaccine rushed to market killed more people than the virus. Add to that bird flu hoax a few years ago.



http://healthimpactnews.com/2014/sim...oax-and-ebola/

[PRB]

so much for "OMFG the government is trying to infect us so they can sell us vaxxines!"

[Dr.3D]

Hard to control an outbreak if people quarantine themselves.

Hard to have an outbreak if people quarantine themselves. Makes me wonder if the CDC doesn't want an outbreak.

[thoughtomator]

It seems this woman's role is to open the floodgates for Ebola risk. I suspect she knew she was Ebola-free before she arrived, at a level of certainty she could only reasonably have if she already went through quarantine before she got on the plane to come back to the US.

[Brian4Liberty]

On the flip side, I can certainly see how a temporary quarantine after returning from a hot zone makes sense. I just wish we didn't have to violate rights to do it.

And temporary is a key word. It would make sense for Doctors without Borders to implement a quarantine near the hot-zone itself, before workers leave. Obviously, make it as comfortable as possible. TV, internet (hopefully they can be productive), a track to run around...

[Created4]

Wow. So people here are trusting of doctors and government that they just assume we need to restrict personal liberty to "protect others"? This is not the Ron Paul Forums I used to know.

Show one modern day example of a pandemic in the U.S. post WWII Industrial age. They don't exist today. They only exist in poor countries with lack of clean water, sanitation, and malnutrition. But even there, the media is over-hyping the severity.

Ebo-Lie - This was posted by an African in Ghana, and has gone viral world-wide and translated into many languages. Seems like only Americans are drinking the Kool-Aid.

[Deborah K]

I thought she tested negative for the virus. I don't agree with holding her in quarantine if she's already tested negative.

[Dr.3D]

I thought she tested negative for the virus. I don't agree with holding her in quarantine if she's already tested negative.

If testing for the virus worked and those who tested negative didn't have it, then why would there ever be a twenty one day quarantine? Wouldn't they just test everybody and skip the quarantine?

[Deborah K]

If testing for the virus worked and those who tested negative didn't have it, then why would there ever be a twenty one day quarantine? Wouldn't they just test everybody and skip the quarantine?

Good question. Anyone have an answer?

[Dr.3D]

Good question. Anyone have an answer?

I suspect it takes time to develop antibodies and when you first catch it, there are not enough of them to show in a blood test.

Or perhaps it takes time for the virus to multiply enough to show in a blood test.

Edit:
This might explain it.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2014...nfection-early

[alucard13mm]

I suspect it takes time to develop antibodies and when you first catch it, there are not enough of them to show in a blood test.

Or perhaps it takes time for the virus to multiply enough to show in a blood test.

Edit:
This might explain it.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2014...nfection-early

This is the likely explanation. Most test try to detect antibodies or viral proteins. Example is HIV. Just because you test negative for HIV viral proteins does not mean you don't have HIV. HIV can be present inside cells and are temporarily inactive, thus undetectable. Of course, HIV is a whole other virus. I am not sure how Ebola works and it's life cycle. It would probably take days for an individual to have a large enough viral load to be detected or for body to produce anti bodies

[NorfolkPCSolutions]

She knowingly went to a place where she could contract a deadly, communicable disease, placing herself at risk of death, which is fully within her rights. she wishes to return to the general population who did not knowingly wish to be in close proximity to a communicable, deadly disease. Our right to not be fully informed and to not be at risk for the contraction of the deadly disease prevail since she knowingly, actively put herself in harms way and her return to the general population would put the general population at risk of death without their knowledge or consent. Therefore, a 21-day quarantine should be mandatory and part of the pre-travel-to-hotspot disclosure to anyone wishing to go to WA/Ebola hot spot.

TLDR: you chose to get up close and personal with Ebola; I didn't.

I like this. I have two sons; their health is above her skinny latte

[Christian Liberty]

After reading all the posts, I'd stand by what I originally said. I don't like the idea that people would be selfless and refuse to quarantine themselves when the safety of the public demands it. But, she still has the right to do it. She isn't acting aggressively by doing so. Like abortion, I think Walter Block is seriously wrong on this subject.

Mind you, PRIVATE property owners have every right to exclude those who are infected, and in a completely libertarian society all property would be private so this wouldn't be an issue.

[idiom]

This Ebola hoax has nothing on the Spanish Flu hoax of 1918.

Governments just don't know how to fake millions of deaths any more.

[Created4]

Wow. So people here are trusting of doctors and government that they just assume we need to restrict personal liberty to "protect others"? This is not the Ron Paul Forums I used to know.

Show one modern day example of a pandemic in the U.S. post WWII Industrial age. They don't exist today. They only exist in poor countries with lack of clean water, sanitation, and malnutrition. But even there, the media is over-hyping the severity.

Ebo-Lie - This was posted by an African in Ghana, and has gone viral world-wide and translated into many languages. Seems like only Americans are drinking the Kool-Aid.

[Tod]

someone was hypothesizing that this is a test of the public reaction to quarantining/refusal to be quarantined. (will the public demand that people be quarantined?)

[Created4]

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[donnay]

[parocks]

Supporting a forced quarantine is incredibly anti-liberty. The woman is asymptomatic; she has not infected anyone. She is not a threat. What crime has she committed to be put under house arrest? People are letting 'caution' and irrational fear get in the way of critical thinking and liberty. Not that this should surprise me given how certain people were calling for military intervention against ISIS. Fear is apparently a very effective tactic to use when you want the citizenry to give up their freedoms.

She's a CDC employee. She's on the clock.

I'd like people to get that.

This is restricting the Liberty of a FEDERAL GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEE.

A SPY.

NOBODY READS.

she's EIS.

[euphemia]

What if she was drunk? Would we force her to submit to a test to prove her guilt?

Maybe she shouldn't have to prove she isn't sick. It seems to me like a 4th amendment issue. Maybe the burden of proof is on the government. It seems if they though ebola was all that serious, they would put it on the list of communicable disease that would deny entry into the US.

[parocks]

This isn't REAL at all.

This is FAKE, to the extent that she's a government employee of the CDC and the CDC doesn't like that the States, and NOT the Fed Gov, and working to solve this problem without them.

I don't know if the goal is
1) More power and money for CDC
2) Ebola vaccine sales for the buddies of the CDC
3) Depopulation

But this nurse just spent 2 years in Las Vegas as Intelligence - the spies - the propagandists - for the CDC. She was in spy school - for the CDC. Earlier this year.
The FED GOV sent a spy, an intelligence agent - to Maine to fck with Maine and but Mainers at risk.

This spy nurse is not from Maine. The whole story is sht, and no one $#@!ing reads anything. Learn this.

[parocks]

What if she was drunk? Would we force her to submit to a test to prove her guilt?

Maybe she shouldn't have to prove she isn't sick. It seems to me like a 4th amendment issue. Maybe the burden of proof is on the government. It seems if they though ebola was all that serious, they would put it on the list of communicable disease that would deny entry into the US.

She's a CDC employee. Sent by the Fed Gov to fck with Maine. She's doing her job.

[Henry Rogue]

After reading all the posts, I'd stand by what I originally said. I don't like the idea that people would be selfless and refuse to quarantine themselves when the safety of the public demands it. But, she still has the right to do it. She isn't acting aggressively by doing so. Like abortion, I think Walter Block is seriously wrong on this subject.

Mind you, PRIVATE property owners have every right to exclude those who are infected, and in a completely libertarian society all property would be private so this wouldn't be an issue.

I'm with you. I think the question that is missing in this thread is, how effective would a government mandated quarantine be? Drug laws haven't been very effective at discouraging drug use, in fact such laws have created a whole host of other problems. What sort of behavior will result, should force be applied? Attemps at avoiding quarantine could increase the chances at spreading the infection.

The thing that really stands out to me in this outbreak is that, the only place, people have been cured of ebola is (seemingly) in the U.S., that makes the U.S. a very attractive destination for those inflicted. If I was infected and had a strong desire to live, I would do whatever i could to get to the U.S.. That would seem like my best chance at survival. It's hard to say, if quarantine means treatment then i believe those looking for treatment will be willing. If quarantine means a one way ticket back to Africa, then i think those infected will hide their illness as long as possible. The best possible situation is to get the medicine to the infected in Africa so there is less incentive to come to the U.S. I realize the op story is about a U.S. citizen who would plan on returning regardless of treatment outside of the country, but i was thinking in a broader scope.

[euphemia]

She's a CDC employee. Sent by the Fed Gov to fck with Maine. She's doing her job.

But that's kind of the point. Her personal liberty could be yours or mine. They could say if I refuse an HPV vaccine I can't hold a job. I am at zero risk for that. Same with HIV. No risk.

The same people who are demanding a quarantine do not agree with breath and blood tests for public intoxication. I am at zero risk for HPV or HIV, but I am always at risk for an intoxicated driver.

[Brian4Liberty]

Show one modern day example of a pandemic in the U.S. post WWII Industrial age. They don't exist today. They only exist in poor countries with lack of clean water, sanitation, and malnutrition. But even there, the media is over-hyping the severity.

Are you talking about something with a very high death rate?

HIV/AIDS is a pandemic. Somewhat slow motion, but a pandemic just the same. Whooping cough has reached what would be termed epidemic in certain areas in the US, and has been pretty widespread. Colds and flus go around the world every year. "Clean water, sanitation, and malnutrition" don't make a difference for many diseases.

[CaptUSA]

This isn't REAL at all.

This is FAKE, to the extent that she's a government employee of the CDC and the CDC doesn't like that the States, and NOT the Fed Gov, and working to solve this problem without them.

I don't know if the goal is
1) More power and money for CDC
2) Ebola vaccine sales for the buddies of the CDC
3) Depopulation

But this nurse just spent 2 years in Las Vegas as Intelligence - the spies - the propagandists - for the CDC. She was in spy school - for the CDC. Earlier this year.
The FED GOV sent a spy, an intelligence agent - to Maine to fck with Maine and but Mainers at risk.

This spy nurse is not from Maine. The whole story is sht, and no one $#@!ing reads anything. Learn this.

I'm not sure about all this. Could very well be. I like the idea of asking the questions, but I'm reluctant to draw conclusions.

But. There is a "libertarian moment" trend that is blowing through society and the government can feel it. Lately, it seems like there have been several incidents that either aim or support the aim to scare people away from libertarian principles and towards more government. Ebola, Russia, ISIS, Immigration, etc. Even the explosion of a commercial rocket launch. There will be calls to have the government do that type of work again.

So, if I were to jump to a conclusion - which I won't do - it would probably be more broad than any of the specific items you identified.