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Thread: Ebola doctor ‘lied’ about NYC travels

  1. #1

    Ebola doctor ‘lied’ about NYC travels


    Ebola doctor ‘lied’ about NYC travels

    By Jamie Schram and Bruce Golding - October 29, 2014

    The city’s first Ebola patient initially lied to authorities about his travels around the city following his return from treating disease victims in Africa, law-enforcement sources said.

    Dr. Craig Spencer at first told officials that he isolated himself in his Harlem apartment — and didn’t admit he rode the subways, dined out and went bowling until cops looked at his MetroCard the sources said.

    “He told the authorities that he self-quarantined. Detectives then reviewed his credit-card statement and MetroCard and found that he went over here, over there, up and down and all around,” a source said.
    ...
    More:
    http://nypost.com/2014/10/29/ebola-d...ravels-police/
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

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    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  3. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post

    Ebola doctor ‘lied’ about NYC travels

    By Jamie Schram and Bruce Golding - October 29, 2014
    Oops... it's against the law to lie to the police.

    Just shows how much we can rely on self quarantine.

  4. #3
    So we should lock up everybody who might have the virus or might have been exposed to it? Or wait for proof they actually have it? What about the nurse in New Jersey who has tested negative and is still being kept locked up? What is the impact of this on freedoms and liberty?

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    So we should lock up everybody who might have the virus or might have been exposed to it? Or wait for proof they actually have it? What about the nurse in New Jersey who has tested negative and is still being kept locked up? What is the impact of this on freedoms and liberty?
    Oh look. More false dilemma bull$#@! from RPF's resident prog. Cute how you pretend to GAF about "freedoms and liberty" all of the sudden. All you ever do is argue for increased government control in every aspect of our lives.
    Based on the idea of natural rights, government secures those rights to the individual by strictly negative intervention, making justice costless and easy of access; and beyond that it does not go. The State, on the other hand, both in its genesis and by its primary intention, is purely anti-social. It is not based on the idea of natural rights, but on the idea that the individual has no rights except those that the State may provisionally grant him. It has always made justice costly and difficult of access, and has invariably held itself above justice and common morality whenever it could advantage itself by so doing.
    --Albert J. Nock

  6. #5
    What? Wut? We were told by the officials that he self-quarantined and we have nothing to worry about. NYC is ready and better prepared for Ebola patients more than Texas was.
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    What? Wut? We were told by the officials that he self-quarantined and we have nothing to worry about. NYC is ready and better prepared for Ebola patients more than Texas was.
    He was not contagious at the time and nobody has become infected because of it. You are only contagious when showing symptoms.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    He was not contagious at the time and nobody has become infected because of it. You are only contagious when showing symptoms.
    Or so they say. I seriously doubt they know as much about it as they think they do.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    He was not contagious at the time and nobody has become infected because of it. You are only contagious when showing symptoms.


    CDC: Ebola Spreads Like Flu
    Coughing, sneezing spread of Ebola, flu nearly identical, according to CDC documents



    Image Credits: CDC

    by Kit Daniels | Infowars.com | October 29, 2014

    Ebola spreads through coughing and sneezing much like influenza, which most experts agree is spread “mainly by droplets made when people with flu cough, sneeze or talk,” according to documents by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

    A new CDC flyer describing the “droplet spread” of Ebola, which “happens when germs traveling inside droplets that are coughed or sneezed from a sick person,” is nearly identical to the CDC’s description of influenza which states “most experts think that flu viruses are spread mainly by droplets made when people with flu cough, sneeze or talk.”

    “Droplet spread happens when germs traveling inside droplets that are coughed or sneezed from a sick person enter the eyes, nose, or mouth of another person,” the CDC Ebola flyer states, which was released on Monday. “Droplets travel short distances, less than 3 feet (1 meter) from one person to another. A person might also get infected by touching a surface or object that has germs on it and then touching their mouth or nose.”

    “Droplet spread diseases include: plague, Ebola.”

    Continued...
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    So we should lock up everybody who might have the virus or might have been exposed to it? Or wait for proof they actually have it? What about the nurse in New Jersey who has tested negative and is still being kept locked up? What is the impact of this on freedoms and liberty?
    As far as we currently know, with the current form of the virus, a patient is not contagious until they run the fever. Then they could spread the virus through coughing or spewing vomit.

    When did this guy become contagious? Before he actually took his temperature? Unlikely that he spread it, but no one is positive on that.

    So who is going to compensate the bowling alley for cleaning and lost income? How about the cost to sanitize and take trains and planes out of service? How about bridal shops and restaurants? Who is going to pay?

    How about people that have to go into quarantine because the patient had contact with them? They can't work. Who will compensate them?
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    As far as we currently know, with the current form of the virus, a patient is not contagious until they run the fever. Then they could spread the virus through coughing or spewing vomit.

    When did this guy become contagious? Before he actually took his temperature? Unlikely that he spread it, but no one is positive on that.

    So who is going to compensate the bowling alley for cleaning and lost income? How about the cost to sanitize and take trains and planes out of service? How about bridal shops and restaurants? Who is going to pay?

    How about people that have to go into quarantine because the patient had contact with them? They can't work. Who will compensate them?
    Not to mention all of the cost in tracking down the people he came into contact with. I have to wonder about the nurse who flew to Ohio and how much it cost to have all of those people tracked down and notified of the problem.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    He was not contagious at the time and nobody has become infected because of it. You are only contagious when showing symptoms.
    http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-...ry.html#page=1

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    As far as we currently know, with the current form of the virus, a patient is not contagious until they run the fever. Then they could spread the virus through coughing or spewing vomit.

    When did this guy become contagious? Before he actually took his temperature? Unlikely that he spread it, but no one is positive on that.

    So who is going to compensate the bowling alley for cleaning and lost income? How about the cost to sanitize and take trains and planes out of service? How about bridal shops and restaurants? Who is going to pay?

    How about people that have to go into quarantine because the patient had contact with them? They can't work. Who will compensate them?
    We currently know that not a single person has been infected in the US other than by close contact with an infected person in the terminal stage of the illness when they could not only not be out and about, but are unlikely to even be able to get out of bad. This is the key point why the panic over ebola is unwarranted. As far as we can tell from observing the disease in the USA, by the time a person is infectious, they are OBVIOUSLY extremely sick, in fact nearly dead, and can be avoided by people who are not properly shielded. Another thing we can tell from observing the cases in the US is that it is not NEARLY as fatal to people getting top-quality care from the outset. In fact, the fatality rate for people who have contracted the disease here is 0%.
    The proper concern of society is the preservation of individual freedom; the proper concern of the individual is the harmony of society.

    "Who would be free, themselves must strike the blow." - Byron

    "Who overcomes by force, hath overcome but half his foe." - Milton

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Acala View Post
    We currently know that not a single person has been infected in the US other than by close contact with an infected person in the terminal stage of the illness when they could not only not be out and about, but are unlikely to even be able to get out of bad. This is the key point why the panic over ebola is unwarranted. As far as we can tell from observing the disease in the USA, by the time a person is infectious, they are OBVIOUSLY extremely sick, in fact nearly dead, and can be avoided by people who are not properly shielded. Another thing we can tell from observing the cases in the US is that it is not NEARLY as fatal to people getting top-quality care from the outset. In fact, the fatality rate for people who have contracted the disease here is 0%.
    I would tend to think that they aren't contagious until spewing bodily fluids, so yes, there is probably no risk of infection from the Doctor and Nurse who traveled around before coming down with it. But the monetary damage from those two is very real.

    As far as fatality rate, the sample size is too small to reach any conclusions at all.

    Four people have come down with the disease in the US (two infected here, two after travel), and one has died, one we don't know about yet.

    The two nurses were relatively young and healthy people who were on the watch and got attention immediately. If it gets out into the population, the young and elderly don't do as well. Ebola is worse than the flu, and plenty of people die from the flu every year.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    I would tend to think that they aren't contagious until spewing bodily fluids, so yes, there is probably no risk of infection from the Doctor and Nurse who traveled around before coming down with it. But the monetary damage from those two is very real.
    You mean voluntary precautionary measures? Guilty until proven innocent right? No damage has been done to any private property whatsoever.

  17. #15
    Nobel Prize Winner for Medicine: People Without Symptoms Or Fever May Still Spread Ebola
    http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/...ill-ebola.html
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by staerker View Post
    You mean voluntary precautionary measures? Guilty until proven innocent right? No damage has been done to any private property whatsoever.
    Tell that to the Bowling Alley, Airlines and Bridal Shop that had to shut down.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Tell that to the Bowling Alley, Airlines and Bridal Shop that had to shut down.
    This doctor shut those locations down?

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    Nobel Prize Winner for Medicine: People Without Symptoms Or Fever May Still Spread Ebola
    http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/...ill-ebola.html
    Yes, the study showed that people can become exposed to ebola and not develop symptoms. No- they did not show that such people were infecting any other people.

    Link to the study in the Lancet: http://www.thelancet.com/journals/la...405-3/fulltext

    The study further noted:
    Despite seroconversion, circulating Ebola antigen was never detected in asymptomatic individuals.
    Just like you can be exposed to a flu virus, have that virus in your system, and not show symptoms. And you will not spread that flu.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Tell that to the Bowling Alley, Airlines and Bridal Shop that had to shut down.
    Bump. I seriously want to know if you think that this doctor shut those locations down.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Tell that to the Bowling Alley, Airlines and Bridal Shop that had to shut down.
    When the TSA gropes you in public, are you costing the airline their valuable time?

    When the police pull you over to flex their authority, are you responsible for the traffic jam it creates?

    What about when the FBI raid your house and kill one of your family members? Are you responsible for waking up the neighbors?

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by staerker View Post
    Bump. I seriously want to know if you think that this doctor shut those locations down.
    Semantics. The presence of the patients right before showing symptoms is what "shut down" those businesses, resulting in financial damage. And it was the nurse who was at the bridal shop. That brings up another issue. Apparently she was taking Tylenol, and running a fever when she flew to Texas. Does reducing the fever with medicine make it less contagious? We don't know. She wasn't spewing vomit, which would be the worse scenario, but running a fever is considered an active infection, even by CDC standards.

    Quote Originally Posted by staerker View Post
    When the TSA gropes you in public, are you costing the airline their valuable time?

    When the police pull you over to flex their authority, are you responsible for the traffic jam it creates?

    What about when the FBI raid your house and kill one of your family members? Are you responsible for waking up the neighbors?
    Not sure how those analogies are supposed to apply to this situation. You can blame the government in all of those case for causing the problems. And in your first analogy, the TSA costs the passenger time, not the airline. The airline will fly without you.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  25. #22
    The bowling alley was closed because of the careless doctor.

    ...Still, out of an abundance of caution, officials said, the bowling alley in Williamsburg that he visited, the Gutter, was closed on Thursday night, and a scheduled concert there, part of the CMJ music festival, was canceled. Health workers were scheduled to visit the alley on Friday.

    At Dr. Spencer’s apartment building, his home was sealed off and workers distributed informational fliers about the disease...

    ...A health care worker at the hospital said that Dr. Spencer seemed very sick, and it was unclear to the medical staff why he had not gone to the hospital earlier, since his fever was high.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/24/ny...york-city.html
    The bridal shop was closed because of the nurse from Dallas.
    Bridal store closed after Ebola-stricken nurse visited
    http://nypost.com/2014/10/16/8-isola...nurse-visited/
    Also:
    Chain reaction: Concern about Ebola nurse’s flight prompts school closings in two states

    ...A flight crew is on paid leave. Several schools in Ohio and Texas have shut down. Students who were on the flight have been asked to stay home. At least one person has put himself in isolation...

    ...“These steps were taken out of concern for the safety of our customers and employees. Steps such as removing the aircraft from service, removing aircraft seat covers and carpet and replacing environmental filters as well as placing the crew on paid leave were not requested nor mandated by the CDC.”

    These concerns seem to be shared by Frontier passengers as well.

    In Solon, Ohio, 20 miles southeast of Cleveland, two schools will shut down Thursday so health officials can disinfect the buildings....
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/m...in-two-cities/

  26. #23
    Ebola bump...
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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