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Thread: (War on Women) NYC: 10 hours of Harassment or Compliments?

  1. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by chudrockz View Post
    And that just totally reminded me of a metal concert I was at once. There was a really cute young girl crowd surfing near me who was also topless. No one really seemed to object. I know I didn't. But there was one guy who was nearby who REPEATEDLY kept reaching up and totally overtly groping her boobs. She was obviously annoyed by it and kept batting his hands down. After about the third or fourth time he did it, I pushed my way over to him and said something very much like "Hey dude, if you don't stop grabbing at her she is going to put her shirt on. If you make her mad enough to put her shirt back on, I'm GOING to stomp your $#@!ing face." He left.
    You're cool.

    You remind me a lot of my cousin, who is a big, tattooed fellow but the nicest guy you'll ever meet.
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  3. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by PaulConventionWV View Post
    Was he doing something else that I didn't see?
    Clearly.
    The more prohibitions you have,
    the less virtuous people will be.
    The more weapons you have,
    the less secure people will be.
    The more subsidies you have,
    the less self-reliant people will be.

    Therefore the Master says:
    I let go of the law,
    and people become honest.
    I let go of economics,
    and people become prosperous.
    I let go of religion,
    and people become serene.
    I let go of all desire for the common good,
    and the good becomes common as grass.

    -Tao Te Ching, Section 57

  4. #213
    Please reserve your spammy nonsense for your own topics. I would be more than willing to bet no one here is actually going to read your post. At least you didn't use your obnoxious center-justified format this time.
    Last edited by Rothbardian Girl; 10-30-2014 at 10:55 AM.
    Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just and that his justice cannot sleep forever. Thomas Jefferson

  5. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by Rothbardian Girl View Post
    presence was the one who brought it up when he implied that because the woman didn't tell the man to knock it off, she was consenting to the behavior (she "wanted" him to keep doing it, using presence's word choice). This is just like when people argue that democracy is legitimate because people implicitly consent to be bound by it when they are born, or the good old "social contract" argument. Basically, lack of response does not imply consent in these contexts.
    You're still not getting it. This is nothing like the implied consent to government oppression. The man needed no consent whatsoever to walk there, implied or not. None. Zero. Zippo.

    The reason presence said that she wanted him to do it was because she made a video about it with an obvious agenda. I actually came to the same conclusion, believe it or not.
    Last edited by PaulConventionWV; 10-30-2014 at 10:54 AM.
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  6. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by jonhowe View Post
    Clearly.
    Yes... and?

    What was he doing? Was he thinking bad thoughts?

    I must have missed it because I didn't see it in the video. Maybe if I look really close, I'll be able to see his thoughts.
    Last edited by PaulConventionWV; 10-30-2014 at 10:57 AM.
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  7. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by PaulConventionWV View Post
    And by "done better", you mean, "shown more violence/creepy behavior."

    Well... they walked around for 10 hours and this is what they got. It's tame because the reality is tame, but they're trying to act like it's not.
    I have heard the stories, read the accounts of others here and I have witnessed worse first hand. Regardless, it really does not matter since you do not need to show the more creepy behavior to achieve your goal. If you stigmatize the behavior demonstrated in the video it may reduce incidents that escalate from that behavior or worse.
    * See my visitor message area for caveats related to my posting history here.
    * Also, I have effectively retired from all social media including posting here and are basically opting out of anything to do with national politics or this country on federal or state level and rather focusing locally. I may stop by from time to time to discuss philosophy on a general level related to Libertarian schools of thought and application in the real world.



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  9. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by chudrockz View Post
    When I was in college and partying frequently, I'd be walking around campus or small town and often there would be a woman walking near me. Since I'm large and (to some, I guess) kind of angry/ scary looking (!), I almost always attempted to converse at least briefly, with something like "hi, how are you tonight? I know I'm a giant, and if I make you nervous I would be happy to walk fifty feet in front of you, or stand still and let you be on your way." I had no desire to scare anyone. Several times at parties though I DID scare guys who I thought were acting badly toward women.
    There really is no comparison to what you describe to the guy who intentionally followed the girl side by side for 5 minutes.
    * See my visitor message area for caveats related to my posting history here.
    * Also, I have effectively retired from all social media including posting here and are basically opting out of anything to do with national politics or this country on federal or state level and rather focusing locally. I may stop by from time to time to discuss philosophy on a general level related to Libertarian schools of thought and application in the real world.

  10. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    There really is no comparison to what you describe to the guy who intentionally followed the girl side by side for 5 minutes.
    He is completely doing the right thing here though, and should be applauded for that. Personally it puts me at ease when men do that. Even brief eye contact and a smile or nod will do enough to show you aren't a threat. This is exactly the sort of thing people discuss when they discuss what men can do to police themselves and others, for those wondering. So... awesome all around.
    Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just and that his justice cannot sleep forever. Thomas Jefferson

  11. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    I have heard the stories, read the accounts of others here and I have witnessed worse first hand. Regardless, it really does not matter since you do not need to show the more creepy behavior to achieve your goal. If you stigmatize the behavior demonstrated in the video it may reduce incidents that escalate from that behavior or worse.
    That's all anecdotal. And I doubt the goal was to stigmatize the behavior. The behavior is already stigmatized. They didn't target the demographic that usually does this and reach out to schools to educate kids on this behavior. They just put it out there to shame men in general for what is inherently a "man problem."
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  12. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    There really is no comparison to what you describe to the guy who intentionally followed the girl side by side for 5 minutes.
    No, of course there isn't. I'm saying that when I was in college and found myself walking near a lone young woman, I did what I could to make her feel like she was NOT in danger. I did the opposite of the guy in the video, in other words.
    Be careful when you pry my gun from my cold dead hands, the barrel will be hot.

  13. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Rothbardian Girl View Post
    He is completely doing the right thing here though, and should be applauded for that. Personally it puts me at ease when men do that. Even brief eye contact and a smile or nod will do enough to show you aren't a threat. This is exactly the sort of thing people discuss when they discuss what men can do to police themselves and others, for those wondering. So... awesome all around.
    I really don't feel the need to go around "policing" other men. The worst that this guy in the video can be accused of is being impolite and socially awkward.
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  14. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by Rothbardian Girl View Post
    Please reserve your spammy nonsense for your own topics. At least you didn't use your obnoxious center-justified format this time.
    I'll tie it together as it seems the commentary to An Allegory of Vanity, Showing Truth Personified was misunderstood the first time through:

    The skull is the cat caller.
    The mirror is the video production.
    The folio is the video transcription.
    The sumptious garb is the skin tight black clothing.
    The scales are the number of times in a day she was called.
    Death is the whistling mating call.
    Vanity cajoled 'Hollaback' to miss the curious pathos of the other character.



    Quote Originally Posted by Rothbardian Girl View Post
    I would be more than willing to bet no one here is actually going to read your post.
    I'll take that bet.


    Last edited by presence; 10-30-2014 at 03:57 PM.

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...


  15. #223
    I haven't watched the video and don't plan on it. I'll assume the worst and guess that these guys did everything short of grabbing on the woman. Question for all of the women angry at their behavior. What's your solution? I assume, without reading the entire thread, that nobody's for some new sexual harassment law that applies to complete strangers walking on the street. So is it "talk about it so men feel really really bad and never try this in real life? Well guess what? The vast majority of men aren't going to do this. In fact if you are very attractive (I wouldn't put this actress in the very attractive category), most decent men aren't going to hit on you even if you want them to, and even if the situation is "appropriate". And why do some guys persist in trying? The same reason Nigerians send out scam emails and why politicians do robocalls. Because as irritating as it may be, it works enough of the time for guys to decide it's worth it.

    As a man, I've been hit on a handful of times. Twice by gay men (irritating but I didn't freak out about it) and several times by women. Speaking for the men of the world, women if you see what you like feel free to hit on us. It will make our jobs easier.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  16. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by PaulConventionWV View Post
    That's all anecdotal. And I doubt the goal was to stigmatize the behavior. The behavior is already stigmatized. They didn't target the demographic that usually does this and reach out to schools to educate kids on this behavior. They just put it out there to shame men in general for what is inherently a "man problem."
    Go ahead, keep confirming that you are obtuse - the jury's still out on whether you are deliberately so or if you can't help it, though. The most stunning thing is that your own defensive behavior perfectly illustrates the need to have a chat as a society about this issue... like what you so enthusiastically applauded chudrocks for doing. So reading your posts, any reasonable person is left scratching his/her head. It is a problem that as jonhowe and chud illustrated, is capable of being vastly improved if not completely solved. I am confident that neither of these two men, or many of the other men on this topic with sympathetic attitudes, take umbrage to the suggestion that attitudes toward this need to change.

    Men who are unsympathetic or hostile to women's concerns are being "shamed" because there are already many awesome ones that understand why this is unacceptable. So if you aren't willing to muster the effort to be a decent person, (you are not despite your claims) kindly move on.
    Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just and that his justice cannot sleep forever. Thomas Jefferson



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  18. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by chudrockz View Post
    No, of course there isn't. I'm saying that when I was in college and found myself walking near a lone young woman, I did what I could to make her feel like she was NOT in danger. I did the opposite of the guy in the video, in other words.
    +1

    Quote Originally Posted by Rothbardian Girl View Post
    He is completely doing the right thing here though, and should be applauded for that. Personally it puts me at ease when men do that. Even brief eye contact and a smile or nod will do enough to show you aren't a threat. This is exactly the sort of thing people discuss when they discuss what men can do to police themselves and others, for those wondering. So... awesome all around.
    I agree.
    * See my visitor message area for caveats related to my posting history here.
    * Also, I have effectively retired from all social media including posting here and are basically opting out of anything to do with national politics or this country on federal or state level and rather focusing locally. I may stop by from time to time to discuss philosophy on a general level related to Libertarian schools of thought and application in the real world.

  19. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    I haven't watched the video and don't plan on it. I'll assume the worst and guess that these guys did everything short of grabbing on the woman.
    you should watch it then. It is only 2 minutes long and seriousy isn't even close to what one would assume is the worst. The vast majority of them are just greeting her and saying the equivalent of hello.

  20. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    LOL. As a black man living in Tennessee right after Obama got elected I had white people coming up to me and giving me high fives and saying "We did it!" Not sure what that's supposed to mean.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  21. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by Rothbardian Girl View Post
    He is completely doing the right thing here though, and should be applauded for that. Personally it puts me at ease when men do that. Even brief eye contact and a smile or nod will do enough to show you aren't a threat. This is exactly the sort of thing people discuss when they discuss what men can do to police themselves and others, for those wondering. So... awesome all around.
    Hmmmm.....the woman in the video in the OP complained about "winks and smiles". So it seems she would have seen chudrockz as a threat even for doing that. I think that's the problem with some of these "stop sexual harassment/assault" campaigns. They lump everything together.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  22. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    you should watch it then. It is only 2 minutes long and seriousy isn't even close to what one would assume is the worst. The vast majority of them are just greeting her and saying the equivalent of hello.
    Okay. Watched it. Yeah, some of what she noted as "harassment" couldn't be honestly called that. But maybe it's a New York thing. I live in the south and people here often acknowledge strangers with small talk as they pass each other on the sidewalk. If every time some stranger says "Good evening" that's a "cat call" then I've been hit on much more than I realize.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  23. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Because as irritating as it may be, it works enough of the time for guys to decide it's worth it.
    Yep, as I said before it's not really my style but it does work for guys sometimes so some women do in fact like it and I think it is really mean and shallow to judge these guys.. They're basically saying that they are less visually appealing and so there is no way that their personality will ever be able to make up for that fact and no beautiful woman will ever find beauty in their souls so they should just mind their own business rather than let their personalities shine through.

    Some women like guys who are outgoing and flatter them. If you don't like it, then say or at least show you aren't interested.. to let the guy just walk next to you for 5 minutes and smile the whole time then complain about it is dumb.
    Last edited by dannno; 10-30-2014 at 12:13 PM.
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  24. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Hmmmm.....the woman in the video in the OP complained about "winks and smiles". So it seems she would have seen chudrockz as a threat even for doing that. I think that's the problem with some of these "stop sexual harassment/assault" campaigns. They lump everything together.
    I personally did not watch the video and do not plan on doing so because I am generally skeptical of things that go viral. However, I am still prepared to counter the poor arguments and callous disregard for fellow humans that inevitably spring up on topics like this one. I see the video as a good thing in that it spurs the conversation about these issues. Re: your actual point, some smiles do come off as lecherous rather than friendly; the same goes for winks, and I don't think it's nitpicky or an overreaction at all to mention that there is some nuance involved with both.

    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Yep, as I said before it's not really my style but it does work for guys sometimes so some women do in fact like it and I think it is really mean and shallow to judge these guys.. They're basically saying that they are less visually appealing and so there is no way that their personality will ever be able to make up for that fact and no beautiful woman will ever find beauty in their souls so they should just mind their own business rather than let their personalities shine through.

    Some women like guys who are outgoing and flatter them. If you don't like it, then say or at least show you aren't interested.. to let the guy just walk next to you for 5 minutes and smile the whole time then complain about it is dumb.
    Again, you can't just assume that women like it because it works. If a woman gives in as a defense mechanism, that most certainly doesn't mean she likes the tactic. Nor does giving a phone number, assuming it's not made-up, necessarily mean the woman actually approved of being catcalled - I've given my number out plenty of times and then ignored any texts or calls (not to catcallers, but in analogous situations). This isn't "mixed signals," this is how to get rid of someone bothersome literally without coming off as "too mean" for a woman (see, even I feel the pressure to act based on stereotypes!). There's also the completely separate issue of some men drastically misreading intentions in the first place. The fact remains that catcalling specifically has a really low success rate.
    Last edited by Rothbardian Girl; 10-30-2014 at 12:25 PM.
    Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just and that his justice cannot sleep forever. Thomas Jefferson

  25. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Okay. Watched it. Yeah, some of what she noted as "harassment" couldn't be honestly called that. But maybe it's a New York thing. I live in the south and people here often acknowledge strangers with small talk as they pass each other on the sidewalk. If every time some stranger says "Good evening" that's a "cat call" then I've been hit on much more than I realize.
    Yeah, much of what I saw was just polite behavior. I mean I grew in the Midwest where you acknowledged other people you passed on the street. Sure there were a couple creepers, but they were in the minority.



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  27. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by Rothbardian Girl View Post
    Go ahead, keep confirming that you are obtuse - the jury's still out on whether you are deliberately so or if you can't help it, though. The most stunning thing is that your own defensive behavior perfectly illustrates the need to have a chat as a society about this issue... like what you so enthusiastically applauded chudrocks for doing. So reading your posts, any reasonable person is left scratching his/her head. It is a problem that as jonhowe and chud illustrated, is capable of being vastly improved if not completely solved. I am confident that neither of these two men, or many of the other men on this topic with sympathetic attitudes, take umbrage to the suggestion that attitudes toward this need to change.

    Men who are unsympathetic or hostile to women's concerns are being "shamed" because there are already many awesome ones that understand why this is unacceptable. So if you aren't willing to muster the effort to be a decent person, (you are not despite your claims) kindly move on.
    Oh, I get it. You're having trouble reconciling the fact that I don't think this is a big deal with the fact that I severely disdain people who mistreat women. It's called cognitive dissonance. But the two are not incompatible, so maybe you should work on that little misconception first.

    Tell me, what would make me a decent person? I've already stated that I wouldn't approve of my friends doing this and I would tell them so. What else am I supposed to do to be "decent" in your eyes?
    I'm an adventurer, writer and bitcoin market analyst.

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  28. #234

  29. #235

  30. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Rothbardian Girl View Post
    I personally did not watch the video and do not plan on doing so because I am generally skeptical of things that go viral. However, I am still prepared to counter the poor arguments and callous disregard for fellow humans that inevitably spring up on topics like this one. I see the video as a good thing in that it spurs the conversation about these issues. Re: your actual point, some smiles do come off as lecherous rather than friendly; the same goes for winks, and I don't think it's nitpicky or an overreaction at all to mention that there is some nuance involved with both.
    Okay. But isn't it fair to say that someone's innocent wink that's meant to be reassuring could be misconstrued by some perceived harassment victim? In the video the woman lumped everything together. There was no "nuance". Yeah walking beside a woman and staring her down is lecherous. But to get the "harassment" numbers up the video included a lot a arguably non lecherous behavior. That's the problem with it.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  31. #237
    gay guys can be considered Alpha males....

  32. #238
    If that video is the definition of harassment, then we're in big trouble. The "outta be a law" types will eat this up and spit out another version of "hate crime" legislation.

    I'm betting we'll see more of this kind of thing as Hitlery goes on the campaign trail. "War on women" is already the new mantra. Heck, they're laying the groundwork now with this stupid ass video, and the one with the trashy little girls. And the answer will be a LIBERAL woman for Prez.
    Diversity finds unity in the message of freedom.

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    Above all I think everyone needs to understand that neither the Bundys nor Finicum were militia or had prior military training. They were, first and foremost, Ranchers who had about all the shit they could take.
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    If anything, this situation has proved the government is nothing but a dictatorship backed by deadly force... no different than the dictatorships in the banana republics, just more polished and cleverly propagandized.
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    In a free society there will be bigotry, and racism, and sexism and religious disputes and, and, and.......
    I don't want to live in a cookie cutter, federally mandated society.
    Give me messy freedom every time!

  33. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by Rothbardian Girl View Post
    Again, you can't just assume that women like it because it works. If a woman gives in as a defense mechanism, that most certainly doesn't mean she likes the tactic. Nor does giving a phone number, assuming it's not made-up, necessarily mean the woman actually approved of being catcalled
    You're wrong, a lot of women like getting that type of attention. That's just how it is, take it up with them. It may be a minority of women, they may not like EVERY guy cat calling them, but that may be their preferred method of pickup from people who they find attractive because it shows initiative, which is something they find attractive.

    When I say it 'works' for some guys, I don't mean it worked because they got a phone number, I mean it worked because they got laid which is the goal.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  34. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by pessimist View Post
    Well, then we have a different perception. I have the image of the ripped dudes in tribal tattoos who walk around in "I do alpha male $#@!" t-shirts, or the frat boy douche smashing beer bottles over his head, or Brock Lesnar.

    I've always thought an 'alpha' was a man trying to exert his dominance over weaker men as part of some mating ritual.
    You are describing $#@!s. Granted, sometimes $#@!s can be alpha, but that isn't a requirement. Also, a man does not need to have high physical strength or good looks in order to be alpha, since it's primarily mental, although those traits can certainly help. I think it's more of a case in which men who are physically imposing, or are attractive and used to being validated by women's acceptance, naturally tend to be more confident. Also, women want to be dominated (please note: not abused). In fact, women constantly test men in order to ensure their fitness as a leader, protector, and provider. This is why women sometimes act like spoiled children or creat conflict seemingly out of nowhere. Failure to pass these tests often results in a dead bedroom situation and/or divorce. A woman does not want to wear the pants.

    Quote Originally Posted by pessimist View Post
    duh! Any man with high status is going to get a more favorable reaction from women than the average Joe. Any good looking guy is going to get a more favorable reaction on first glance. What is your point?
    Since you equated $#@! with alpha, it seemed necessary to include.

    Quote Originally Posted by pessimist View Post
    This is absurd. You are are VASTLY underestimating the power of personality. I am not sure what you mean by "acting weak" but many of these smart, funny dudes have sociopathic wit and charm, who know how to 'turn women on'. I have no idea what you're talking about here.
    Personality does help. Being smart, funny, or what have you are good traits, but those aren't the traits that get a woman's panties wet; rather they are traits to supplement the alpha. Here are examples of acting weak that will lose points with women: shyness, nervousness, acting as though the woman is the prize (a man's mindset should be that he is the prize, being a doormat, no ambition, no goals, poor leadership, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by pessimist View Post
    An ugly, glib, car salesman type well versed in the art of persuasion can get laid pretty much any time he wants to by manipulating and conning dumb women. Is he alpha?
    If he's an ugly car salesman and only gets laid by lying, then he probably isn't an alpha male.

    Quote Originally Posted by pessimist View Post
    Yeah, I must have a different view of the "alpha male", but GOOD LOOKS has nothing to do with alpha or beta. There are a $#@! load of pretty boys who don't "do alpha male $#@!" or are even particularly masculine, but they can get laid any time they want because they're "hot".

    Wow! Women like hot guys, like men like hot women? Who would have thought?
    Women do like hot guys, but not to the extent that men do. Women put more emphasis on money/status/confidence in addition to looks. If a woman is pretty, broke, unemployed, and shy, she will have no problems getting laid since she is pretty. If a man is good-looking, broke, unemployed, and shy, he may get laid because of his good looks, but it won't be nearly as easy for him and it will likely not result in a long-term relationship.
    "I shall bring justice to Westeros. Every man shall reap what he has sown, from the highest lord to the lowest gutter rat. They have made my kingdom bleed, and I do not forget that."
    -Stannis Baratheon



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