(War on Women) NYC: 10 hours of Harassment or Compliments?

[CaptainAmerica]

Idiot?

Telling people to shut the $#@! up?

Who pissed in your Cheerios?

[kahless]

I completely agree with this, but my only question is what in the hell does this accomplish? What does putting videos of catcalling on the internet do to achieve anything? You certainly can't prosecute that behavior, so why does anyone even bring attention to this? All women need to worry about is whether someone is going to be violent, and that's why defending oneself should be legal.

What happened to just rolling your eyes and moving along? Now we have to go on some kind of campaign to raise awareness? What does that accomplish? Being aware of it is not going to stop it from happening. Nothing will.

This doesn't even take into account the fact that there was only 90 seconds of footage and many of the things people said weren't that bad, not to mention the fact that she was walking in bad neighborhoods to begin with.

What's the point of making videos about this?

To deservedly shame those that do it and bring us back to the more civilized culture this country once was. I am not saying there were not these problems in the past, it is just that it is more pervasive now and has escalated with the cultural and demographic change to this country.

It is a bit of a war on women from some groups, but I think "War on Women" in the thread title is a bit misleading these days since I do not see them promoting legislation or aligned with any political ideology. I do applaud them for launching this much needed campaign.

You do not have to be in poor areas of NYC to experience what she experienced. I have seen far worse behavior in the northern middle class suburbs of NYC from African American blacks and young Puerto Ricans and Dominicans. The campaign should probably geo-target to those groups since this kind of behavior seems to be rare outside those demographics and less extreme.

[PaulConventionWV]

Walking somewhere in broad daylight just trying to get to work or get errands done, which is the setting where I've personally experienced this sort of thing, is a vastly different situation from wandering around in Baltimore at 1 AM. This is not limited to "bad neighborhoods", either - plenty of entitled college students on cozy, protected campuses engage in this behavior simply because they can get away with it.


This is precisely the reason why there needs to be a dialogue on this issue and not just "well, boys will be boys and this is all about sex." You have just conceded that there is a threat of violence involved, and so it's not just innocuous comments. Oftentimes those are followed by more specific or persistent harassment. If you think someone is pretty, admire them from afar. Why must attraction be broadcasted so aggressively? Look at them, smile and move on.

Ok, so let's have a dialogue: do you have any ideas of how to stop this? What do you propose we decent men do about it?

And also, they ARE innocuous comments until somebody actually does make a threat. The vast majority of catcalls don't actually involve any direct threats, and touching falls under the category of assault. But ignoring that, what do we do about just the catcalling? If a woman gets assaulted, then obviously there are legal consequences, but what do we do about the catcalling? And furthermore, what does having a dialogue help? Even talking about it isn't making the individual men who engage in this behavior stop. What do we do? Please tell us.

[juleswin]

Why is it bad advice not to walk around $#@! neighborhoods? I'm in the middle of f***ing West Virginia and even I know that poor, low-class trash people tend to live in the same places. What's so ridiculous about telling people in general to avoid those places?

What exactly did these people do that is so wrong that people are comparing them to low class trash people? Talk to a girl walking the streets where young men congregate for 10 hrs while dressed to impress and them wondering why she got any attention? Human interaction is now seen as an evil thing low class trashy people do.

God bless you. Oops, I hope you can forgive me, I didn't mean to act all trashy and low class by saying that to you.

God help us all.

[kahless]

What exactly did these people do that is so wrong that people are comparing them to low class trash people? Talk to a girl walking the streets dressed to impress for 10 hrs in areas with young men in it and them wondering why she got any attention? Human interaction is now seen as a evil thing low class trashy people do.

God bless you. Oops, I hope you can forgive me, I didn't mean to act all trashy and low class by saying that to you.

God help us all.

What if it was a guy doing this to you and started to get overly aggressive. It would not occur to you that you might have to defend yourself or drop him? Now think of this happening all the time. How do you think it feels to walk around with that threat all the time especially if you think you may not be able to get away or stop an attack.

[Anti Federalist]

Really, what is your issue?

Are you denying that men are the victims of violent crime more often than women?

[juleswin]

What if it was a guy doing this to you and started to get overly aggressive. It would not occur to you that you might have to defend yourself or drop him? Now think of this happening all the time. How do you think it feels to walk around with that threat all the time especially if you think you may not be able to get away or stop the attack.

How aggressive? did they touch you? block your path? or anything non verbal? Remember what we all learned as kids. Sticks and stones may break our bones but words would never hurt me. Something like that, sometimes I read threads on RPF and wonder if I somehow wondered into democratic underground.

[Deborah K]

I love this scene. I apologize in advance to the politically correct in this thread:

[aGameOfThrones]

[TheTexan]

Hot damn, she got some sexy eyes

[juleswin]

Sometimes I just wish someone would cat call me .

A girl squeezed by ass once at a dance club a few years back and I kinda liked it. Isn't that the saddest thing you ever heard?

[Anti Federalist]

Still not sure if this is legit or just more of the sanitizing of any butt-hurt from society and people.

The future:

[acptulsa]

Sometimes I just wish someone would cat call me .

A girl squeezed by ass once at a dance club a few years back and I kinda liked it. Isn't that the saddest thing you ever heard?

When I was a kid I thought all those women complaining about constant unwanted attention were just being catty and bragging--lording it over every less attractive woman within earshot.

Maybe all of this only seems to be targeted at men. Maybe this one battle is a war among women.

[Anti Federalist]

Sometimes I just wish someone would cat call me .

A girl squeezed by ass once at a dance club a few years back and I kinda liked it. Isn't that the saddest thing you ever heard?

Not sad at all.

Nice to know you're wanted...

[Slave Mentality]

/thread...... Again

Look girls you can all be 10s now, or 2s, depending on the dudes.

[PaulConventionWV]

Actually, no feminist I have seen commenting on the matter has advocated for a literal police state to combat the problem, and I see no reason to likewise assume that that is what the makers of this video want (even if they did, again, it wouldn't invalidate their concerns). Cultural pressure is generally what feminists like to talk about; i.e., (to also answer Acala's question), if people have friends who harass others, they need to sit them down and simply talk about why it's inappropriate to do so. If this sounds preposterous to you, I'll offer anecdotally that I know plenty of males on my FB who said they would be discussing these issues with their friends. A lot of people frankly have no idea that what they are doing is wrong until someone (parents or peers, depending on age and the situation) gives them a real talking-to about it. I'm (I hope not too charitably) guessing a lot of the people who post on this board are decent enough to not associate with people who behave this way, or not to raise kids who act like this, but just in case... that would be my advice. Stating bluntly that it's sort of $#@!ed up and gross to harass people and that you wouldn't remain friends with anyone who did it is a small action, but if enough people did so, it would be at least noticeably different from the current status quo.

"Do it because you want people to be better, and because you intend to hold humanity accountable for producing disgusting, petulant man-trolls who think they’re entitled to other people’s time and attention. Do it because you’re gonna stop the cycle of disgusting, petulant man-trolls right flipping now, in your own flipping life," to quote an article I read on this subject a few days ago. This is strong language that may provoke a typically defensive response, but to me, this is no different from countless libertarian-themed attempts to change people's minds re: the topic of big government. It's parallel to the philosophical activism that the namesake of this forum holds so dear.

Again, the rest of this post is mostly assumption. "She has no idea what males go through" - has she specifically spoken about the video yet, and have you personally contacted her to get her opinion? Yes, there is a violence problem in bigger cities, but this isn't a time to be hosting the Oppression Olympics right now. This is a video made about the very specific issue of catcalling, and how catcalling indeed ties into larger problems of violence and poverty. The very fact that this sort of behavior occurs across all manner of social situations and settings, however, means that catcalling and the entitlement mentality are "real problems" in and out of themselves. Catcalling specifically is not chiefly a violence and poverty problem, it's in all likelihood a breeding and cultural problem that is reinforced by popular culture and a few other forces

Open your eyes. Oppression Olympics is exactly what this video is. It's a competition in the Oppression Olympics. It's obvious.

[kahless]

How aggressive? did they touch you? block your path? or anything non verbal? Remember what we all learned as kids. Sticks and stones may break our bones but words would never hurt me. Something like that, sometimes I read threads on RPF and wonder if I somehow wondered into democratic underground.

You did not answer the question. I did not call for legislation but a return to civility which seriously lacking in today's America. I do not see how you equate people behaving in a civilized manner as a quality of the posters at the Democratic Underground.

That video was mild from what I have seen yet some of it concerning and likely scary for a woman having to deal with that regularly. This since there is always going to be that one guy where it becomes more than words, thinks he deserves her and will take it too far. (just like the example given in this thread). You never know which one it is going to be.

[PaulConventionWV]

I could make a video of me walking in the crappy section of a city for 10 hours with me carrying a 6 pack and produce a video of a dozen hobos asking me for a bottle.

I really think someone should do this.

Seriously. Someone make a spoof video like this one with a male actor carrying a six pack and see if you can find 90 seconds of footage in 10 hours.

[PaulConventionWV]

Yeah, especially the guy that wished her a nice day and god bless you. she shoulda capped that guy!

I think KCIndy was talking about Nirvikalpa's experience, which actually was assault. He wasn't talking about the video.

[PaulConventionWV]

Take it easy man, what you see is people participating in the mating dance. It may no the way you do your dance but start shooting people trying to pick you up and people like me will be coming after you to kick your ass.

I know it can be frustrating woman to go through but some men are just trying to pick you up. And the way most of them conducted themselves, I see no reason to be pulling out guns or trying to change laws. This video is a compilation of some of the least offensive cat calling I have heard in my life. God bless you, beautiful? come on guys, this is NY city, act accordingly.

And for the people who wonder why anyone would cat call, it is because it works. I have seen it work on several occasions with my 2 naked eyes. Some girls actually stop, have a conversation and exchange numbers.

Come to think of it, you're right. I didn't think of it before, but there is a guy on youtube who makes prank videos. I think his name is like David Ross or something and his channel is rosscreations. Anyway, he got tons of girls numbers just by walking up and saying "You're pretty, can I have your number?"

It really, truly does work sometimes. I hadn't even thought of that before, but it's true. If you want cat-calling to stop, then shame the women who encourage this behavior by responding to it.

[PaulConventionWV]

I don't get it. He just proved you wrong. Why do you feel it necessary to call him names?

[aGameOfThrones]

[PaulConventionWV]

To deservedly shame those that do it and bring us back to the more civilized culture this country once was. I am not saying there were not these problems in the past, it is just that it is more pervasive now and has escalated with the cultural and demographic change to this country.

It is a bit of a war on women from some groups, but I think "War on Women" in the thread title is a bit misleading these days since I do not see them promoting legislation or aligned with any political ideology. I do applaud them for launching this much needed campaign.

You do not have to be in poor areas of NYC to experience what she experienced. I have seen far worse behavior in the northern middle class suburbs of NYC from African American blacks and young Puerto Ricans and Dominicans. The campaign should probably geo-target to those groups since this kind of behavior seems to be rare outside those demographics and less extreme.

You think shaming is going to stop thugs from being thugs? Look, people who do this don't have friends who are going to sit them down and say "You should really stop doing that." People that do this have friends who join in.

Or were you going to suggest that guys start picking fights with cat-callers and putting themselves at the risk of being attacked?

[PaulConventionWV]

What exactly did these people do that is so wrong that people are comparing them to low class trash people? Talk to a girl walking the streets dressed to impress for 10 hrs in areas with young men in it and them wondering why she got any attention? Human interaction is now seen as a evil thing low class trashy people do.

God bless you. Oops, I hope you can forgive me, I didn't mean to act all trashy and low class by saying that to you.

God help us all.

Ok, maybe I was cutting them too much slack, but it was for the sake of making a point. The point is that this stuff usually does happen in lower-class areas and there's absolutely nothing wrong with advising people to avoid those areas. Anyone who says there's something wrong with that is freaking delusional.

[HOLLYWOOD]

http://biography.yourdictionary.com/camille-paglia

[Philhelm]

Sometimes I just wish someone would cat call me .

A girl squeezed by ass once at a dance club a few years back and I kinda liked it. Isn't that the saddest thing you ever heard?

Agreed. I was once at a club leaning against a table and some girl rubbed her hand across my crotch and smiled as she walked by. I was too much of a pussy to do anything about it in those days.

The best feeling was when I was at a bar with a friend, and we were talking to some woman. Out of nowhere, another cute woman approaches me and asked if the girl was hitting on me. I said, "No," and she said, "Good, because I want to." I ended up offering to give her and her friend a ride home, along with my friend, and ended up getting it on with her after I dropped off the others. Easiest lay ever.

[kahless]

You think shaming is going to stop thugs from being thugs? Look, people who do this don't have friends who are going to sit them down and say "You should really stop doing that." People that do this have friends who join in.

There is much behavior that be attributed to pop-culture conditioning. Over time it may work for some.

Or were you going to suggest that guys start picking fights with cat-callers and putting themselves at the risk of being attacked?

I do not think this is about simple cat-callers which is no biggie. Following a woman for five minutes and not leaving her alone in an aggressive manner is not simply cat-calling.

Conditioning through pop-culture may bring that aspect of one jerk in a group being told to cut the crap rather than them all joining in.

[kahless]

Not sad at all.

Nice to know you're wanted...

Yeah, but would it be the same if some creepy looking skank on the street grabbed you in the crotch and would not leave you alone.

[tod evans]

To deservedly shame those that do it and bring us back to the more civilized culture this country once was. I am not saying there were not these problems in the past, it is just that it is more pervasive now and has escalated with the cultural and demographic change to this country.

It is a bit of a war on women from some groups, but I think "War on Women" in the thread title is a bit misleading these days since I do not see them promoting legislation or aligned with any political ideology. I do applaud them for launching this much needed campaign.

You do not have to be in poor areas of NYC to experience what she experienced. I have seen far worse behavior in the northern middle class suburbs of NYC from African American blacks and young Puerto Ricans and Dominicans. The campaign should probably geo-target to those groups since this kind of behavior seems to be rare outside those demographics and less extreme.

I've been known to frequent a few biker bars where this broad in the OP would catch some flack too...

There's something to be said about sticking to places you're comfortable...

You'll not find me in NY state let alone the city, I don't belong there and have no desire to put them or myself through the hassle...

For Heavens sake, I could walk down the same streets as this broad and catch a load of crap too, then again if ya' send the dude in the purple suit out here to the sticks he's not going to fare well either...

People are not homogeneous no matter how hard some try to make it so.......

[juleswin]

You did not answer the question. I did not call for legislation but a return to civility which seriously lacking in today's America. I do not see how you equate people behaving in a civilized manner as a quality of the posters at the Democratic Underground.

That video was mild from what I have seen yet some of it concerning and likely scary for a woman having to deal with that regularly. This since there is always going to be that one guy where it becomes more than words, thinks he deserves her and will take it too far. (just like the example given in this thread). You never know which one it is going to be.

To answer your question, I needed to know how aggressive this cat callers were getting. Also, I didn't mean to compare civility to acting like folks from DU. I said in response to the post of people acting like what was shown in the video is a grave injustice to women. One even suggested women carry fire arms to protect themselves from men trying to pick em up.

You know what happens when one of the guy acts out of line? the other guys who have been attracted to you would want to be your knight in shinning armor and save the day. The guy acting out of line would most likely get beat really bad if there are enough guys in the area that still want you and every guy knows that or just guys who hate to see big men attack poor defenseless women will come to your aid. And I say most likely cos there is a small chance that if you had been rude and nasty with the other guys in the past, they may decide to back off and let you suffer.

I don't mind civility but then again I saw in the video and in my book what they did is neither good or bad. Talking to a woman you are attracted to in the hope she hears it and responds is very normal.