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Thread: Law Lets I.R.S. Seize Accounts on Suspicion, No Crime Required

  1. #1

    Law Lets I.R.S. Seize Accounts on Suspicion, No Crime Required

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/26/us...-required.html

    The Internal Revenue Service agents did not accuse Ms. Hinders of money laundering or cheating on her taxes — in fact, she has not been charged with any crime. Instead, the money was seized solely because she had deposited less than $10,000 at a time, which they viewed as an attempt to avoid triggering a required government report.

    “How can this happen?” Ms. Hinders said in a recent interview. “Who takes your money before they prove that you’ve done anything wrong with it?”

    The federal government does.

    Using a law designed to catch drug traffickers, racketeers and terrorists by tracking their cash, the government has gone after run-of-the-mill business owners and wage earners without so much as an allegation that they have committed serious crimes. The government can take the money without ever filing a criminal complaint, and the owners are left to prove they are innocent. Many give up.

    “They’re going after people who are really not criminals,” said David Smith, a former federal prosecutor who is now a forfeiture expert and lawyer in Virginia. “They’re middle-class citizens who have never had any trouble with the law.”

    On Thursday, in response to questions from The New York Times, the I.R.S. announced that it would curtail the practice, focusing instead on cases where the money is believed to have been acquired illegally or seizure is deemed justified by “exceptional circumstances.”

    Richard Weber, the chief of Criminal Investigation at the I.R.S., said in a written statement, “This policy update will ensure that C.I. continues to focus our limited investigative resources on identifying and investigating violations within our jurisdiction that closely align with C.I.’s mission and key priorities.” He added that making deposits under $10,000 to evade reporting requirements, called structuring, is still a crime whether the money is from legal or illegal sources. The new policy will not apply to past seizures.



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  3. #2

    Exclamation IRS gets in on the asset forfeiture game.

    As usual, a day late and dollar short for the Times.

    But at they are reporting it.

    And giving Institute for Justice some press.


    Law Lets I.R.S. Seize Accounts on Suspicion, No Crime Required

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/26/us...ired.html?_r=0

    ARNOLDS PARK, Iowa — For almost 40 years, Carole Hinders has dished out Mexican specialties at her modest cash-only restaurant. For just as long, she deposited the earnings at a small bank branch a block away — until last year, when two tax agents knocked on her door and informed her that they had seized her checking account, almost $33,000.

    The Internal Revenue Service agents did not accuse Ms. Hinders of money laundering or cheating on her taxes — in fact, she has not been charged with any crime. Instead, the money was seized solely because she had deposited less than $10,000 at a time, which they viewed as an attempt to avoid triggering a required government report.

    “How can this happen?” Ms. Hinders said in a recent interview. “Who takes your money before they prove that you’ve done anything wrong with it?”

    The federal government does.

    Using a law designed to catch drug traffickers, racketeers and terrorists by tracking their cash, the government has gone after run-of-the-mill business owners and wage earners without so much as an allegation that they have committed serious crimes. The government can take the money without ever filing a criminal complaint, and the owners are left to prove they are innocent. Many give up.

    “They’re going after people who are really not criminals,” said David Smith, a former federal prosecutor who is now a forfeiture expert and lawyer in Virginia. “They’re middle-class citizens who have never had any trouble with the law.”

    On Thursday, in response to questions from The New York Times, the I.R.S. announced that it would curtail the practice, focusing instead on cases where the money is believed to have been acquired illegally or seizure is deemed justified by “exceptional circumstances.”

    Richard Weber, the chief of Criminal Investigation at the I.R.S., said in a written statement, “This policy update will ensure that C.I. continues to focus our limited investigative resources on identifying and investigating violations within our jurisdiction that closely align with C.I.’s mission and key priorities.” He added that making deposits under $10,000 to evade reporting requirements, called structuring, is still a crime whether the money is from legal or illegal sources. The new policy will not apply to past seizures.

    The I.R.S. is one of several federal agencies that pursue such cases and then refer them to the Justice Department. The Justice Department does not track the total number of cases pursued, the amount of money seized or how many of the cases were related to other crimes, said Peter Carr, a spokesman.

    But the Institute for Justice, a Washington-based public interest law firm that is seeking to reform civil forfeiture practices, analyzed structuring data from the I.R.S., which made 639 seizures in 2012, up from 114 in 2005. Only one in five was prosecuted as a criminal structuring case.

    The practice has swept up dairy farmers in Maryland, an Army sergeant in Virginia saving for his children’s college education and Ms. Hinders, 67, who has borrowed money, strained her credit cards and taken out a second mortgage to keep her restaurant going.

    Their money was seized under an increasingly controversial area of law known as civil asset forfeiture, which allows law enforcement agents to take property they suspect of being tied to crime even if no criminal charges are filed. Law enforcement agencies get to keep a share of whatever is forfeited.

    Critics say this incentive has led to the creation of a law enforcement dragnet, with more than 100 multiagency task forces combing through bank reports, looking for accounts to seize. Under the Bank Secrecy Act, banks and other financial institutions must report cash deposits greater than $10,000. But since many criminals are aware of that requirement, banks also are supposed to report any suspicious transactions, including deposit patterns below $10,000. Last year, banks filed more than 700,000 suspicious activity reports. Owners who are caught up in structuring cases often cannot afford to fight. The median amount seized by the I.R.S. was $34,000, according to the Institute for Justice analysis, while legal costs can easily mount to $20,000 or more.

    There is nothing illegal about depositing less than $10,000 cash unless it is done specifically to evade the reporting requirement. But often a mere bank statement is enough for investigators to obtain a seizure warrant. In one Long Island case, the police submitted almost a year’s worth of daily deposits by a business, ranging from $5,550 to $9,910. The officer wrote in his warrant affidavit that based on his training and experience, the pattern “is consistent with structuring.” The government seized $447,000 from the business, a cash-intensive candy and cigarette distributor that has been run by one family for 27 years.

    There are often legitimate business reasons for keeping deposits below $10,000, said Larry Salzman, a lawyer with the Institute for Justice who is representing Ms. Hinders and the Long Island family pro bono. For example, he said, a grocery store owner in Fraser, Mich., had an insurance policy that covered only up to $10,000 cash. When he neared the limit, he would make a deposit.

    Ms. Hinders said that she did not know about the reporting requirement and that for decades, she thought she had been doing everyone a favor.

    “My mom had told me if you keep your deposits under $10,000, the bank avoids paperwork,” she said. “I didn’t actually think it had anything to do with the I.R.S.”

    In May 2012, the bank branch Ms. Hinders used was acquired by Northwest Banker. JoLynn Van Steenwyk, the fraud and security manager for Northwest, said she could not discuss individual clients, but explained that the bank did not have access to past account histories after it acquired Ms. Hinders’s branch.

    Banks are not permitted to advise customers that their deposit habits may be illegal or educate them about structuring unless they ask, in which case they are given a federal pamphlet, Ms. Van Steenwyk said. “We’re not allowed to tell them anything,” she said.

    Still lawyers say it is not unusual for depositors to be advised by financial professionals, or even bank tellers, to keep their deposits below the reporting threshold. In the Long Island case, the company, Bi-County Distributors, had three bank accounts closed because of the paperwork burden of its frequent cash deposits, said Jeff Hirsch, the eldest of three brothers who own the company. Their accountant then recommended staying below the limit, so for more than a decade the company had been using its excess cash to pay vendors.

    More than two years ago, the government seized $447,000, and the brothers have been unable to retrieve it. Mr. Salzman, who has taken over legal representation of the brothers, has argued that prosecutors violated a strict timeline laid out in the Civil Asset Forfeiture Reform Act, passed in 2000 to curb abuses. The office of the federal attorney for the Eastern District of New York said the law’s timeline did not apply in this case. Still, prosecutors asked the Hirsch’s first lawyer, Joseph Potashnik, to waive the CARFA timeline. The waiver he signed expired almost two years ago.

    The federal attorney’s office said that parties often voluntarily negotiated to avoid going to court, and that Mr. Potashnik had been engaged in talks until just a few months ago. But Mr. Potashnik said he had spent that time trying, to no avail, to show that the brothers were innocent. They even paid a forensic accounting firm $25,000 to check the books.

    “I don’t think they’re really interested in anything,” Mr. Potashnik said of the prosecutors. “They just want the money.”

    Bi-County has survived only because longtime vendors have extended credit — one is owed almost $300,000, Mr. Hirsch said. Twice, the government has made settlement offers that would require the brothers to give up an “excessive” portion of the money, according to a new court filing.

    “We’re just hanging on as a family here,” Mr. Hirsch said. “We weren’t going to take a settlement, because I was not guilty.”

    Army Sgt. Jeff Cortazzo of Arlington, Va., began saving for his daughters’ college costs during the financial crisis, when many banks were failing. He stored cash first in his basement and then in a safe-deposit box. All of the money came from paychecks, he said, but he worried that when he deposited it in a bank, he would be forced to pay taxes on the money again. So he asked the bank teller what to do.

    “She said: ‘Oh, that’s easy. You just have to deposit less than $10,000.’”

    The government seized $66,000; settling cost Sergeant Cortazzo $21,000. As a result, the eldest of his three daughters had to delay college by a year.

    “Why didn’t the teller tell me that was illegal?” he said. “I would have just plopped the whole thing in the account and been done with it.”
    Another mark of a tyrant is that he likes foreigners better than citizens, and lives with them and invites them to his table; for the one are enemies, but the Others enter into no rivalry with him. - Aristotle's Politics Book 5 Part 11

  4. #3
    O, bountiful
    the specious laws
    e-lec-tric waves of pain.
    For amber lamps and magistrates
    the aftermath of raids.
    AmeriKa, AmeriKa
    God shed a tear for thee
    The crowne is goode, blue brotherhood
    From sea to shining sea.


    O beautiful,
    the flash and bang
    dur-ing-the night time raids
    Of heroes fleet
    though stressed replete
    with mercy for their own
    AmeriKa, AmeriKa
    God mend thine every flaw,
    Confirm thy soul through crowd control,
    Thy liberty in law!


    O beautiful
    the patriot act
    That hears through all our ears
    Thine pan-optic state for all in place
    Relief from all our fears!
    Amerika! Amerika!
    God shed a tear for thee
    All souls are bared on earth and air
    so we may remain free!


    How bountiful the glory hole
    for latex scented hands
    through cop and feel and hospital bills
    freedom throughout the land.
    AmeriKa! AmeriKa!
    God shed a tear for thee
    Protect the state and those they rape
    through qualified immunity!
    rewritten history with armies of their crooks - invented memories, did burn all the books... Mark Knopfler

  5. #4
    I have to take anti money laundering courses every year. This past version makes it a crime for me to have been a part of money laundering circle even if I didn't know it was going on.

    Basically if I see anything suspicious or not it's my "duty" to report someone. Or face jail time.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by jbauer View Post
    I have to take anti money laundering courses every year. This past version makes it a crime for me to have been a part of money laundering circle even if I didn't know it was going on.

    Basically if I see anything suspicious or not it's my "duty" to report someone. Or face jail time.

    Your lack of faith in the government system has been reported to the DHS. You will soon be sent to re-education camp.
    rewritten history with armies of their crooks - invented memories, did burn all the books... Mark Knopfler

  7. #6
    Thieves, the whole lot of 'em.


    Army Sgt. Jeff Cortazzo of Arlington, Va., began saving for his daughters’ college costs during the financial crisis, when many banks were failing. He stored cash first in his basement and then in a safe-deposit box. All of the money came from paychecks, he said, but he worried that when he deposited it in a bank, he would be forced to pay taxes on the money again. So he asked the bank teller what to do.

    “She said: ‘Oh, that’s easy. You just have to deposit less than $10,000.’”

    The government seized $66,000; settling cost Sergeant Cortazzo $21,000. As a result, the eldest of his three daughters had to delay college by a year.

    “Why didn’t the teller tell me that was illegal?” he said. “I would have just plopped the whole thing in the account and been done with it.”
    Bank tellers have advised me to do the same thing when I didn't even ask for their advice. The money was legit, btw.

  8. #7
    Perfect.

    I see I have been beaten to the punch on this story however.

    Mods, merge please.

    Quote Originally Posted by torchbearer View Post
    O, bountiful
    the specious laws
    e-lec-tric waves of pain.
    For amber lamps and magistrates
    the aftermath of raids.
    AmeriKa, AmeriKa
    God shed a tear for thee
    The crowne is goode, blue brotherhood
    From sea to shining sea.


    O beautiful,
    the flash and bang
    dur-ing-the night time raids
    Of heroes fleet
    though stressed replete
    with mercy for their own
    AmeriKa, AmeriKa
    God mend thine every flaw,
    Confirm thy soul through crowd control,
    Thy liberty in law!


    O beautiful
    the patriot act
    That hears through all our ears
    Thine pan-optic state for all in place
    Relief from all our fears!
    Amerika! Amerika!
    God shed a tear for thee
    All souls are bared on earth and air
    so we may remain free!


    How bountiful the glory hole
    for latex scented hands
    through cop and feel and hospital bills
    freedom throughout the land.
    AmeriKa! AmeriKa!
    God shed a tear for thee
    Protect the state and those they rape
    through qualified immunity!

  9. #8
    As the empire crumbles it becomes necessary to create new ways to steal from the peasants. It is for our safety. Terrorism and all that scary stuff.

    Collapse already.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by torchbearer View Post
    Your lack of faith in the government system has been reported to the DHS. You will soon be sent to re-education camp.
    Education, completely free of charge I presume ?

    This is some serious stuff. This is where the system itself starts breaking down. There are so many parallels to previous 'civilizations' that have gone through the same expansion in the reach of government, the same kind of deficit spending.. Well, it's too obvious what will happen. The only thing that's not clear is the timeframe.

  12. #10
    So much for storing money in a bank for safety. You're better off with a safe and a gun now.

  13. #11
    So every min wage worker, every small business owner needs to cash and not deposit their checks and keep their money under their mattress until they have at least 10,000 before depositing it or risk loosing it.

    Got it!

    Brilliant scam IRS!

    -t

  14. #12
    Fake tits, FTW.

    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  15. #13
    That is a direct violation of the fourth Amendment to the constitution of the United States of America.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    That is a direct violation of the fourth Amendment to the constitution of the United States of America.
    A violation of what???

    Sorry, I can't hear over the noise of all this freedom.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    That is a direct violation of the fourth Amendment to the constitution of the United States of America.
    It's not just that, it's an entity claiming to 'protect and serve' your NATURAL/GODGIVEN rights pissing on them.
    This is not even about just the fourth amendment, this is about the most basic form of morality. Property, animals mostly understand how the natural rights of property work, they are evolutionary and innate. Criminals and the beast that is government are the only classes that do not have the mental capability to understand how these things work. They eventually get bitten by their lack of cognition, it's a shame that we have to suffer the consequences for it.

    Only police states, ruled by despots have laws that allow for indiscriminate asset forfeiture. No matter what your opinion is on the rest of the political system, this is a few steps worse than anything else. In reality it's effects will be sooner and more severe than indefinite detention policies hidden in the NDAA.

  18. #16
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  20. #17
    Don't keep your money in a place the IRS can electronically shut you down. That is all.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by tangent4ronpaul View Post
    So every min wage worker, every small business owner needs to cash and not deposit their checks and keep their money under their mattress until they have at least 10,000 before depositing it or risk loosing it.

    Got it!

    Brilliant scam IRS!

    -t
    Then if the police catch you with all that money, on your way to the bank, they will confiscate it before the IRS could.

  22. #19
    He added that making deposits under $10,000 to evade reporting requirements, called structuring, is still a crime whether the money is from legal or illegal sources.
    Don't want the IRS to take your money? Follow the law, pretty simple...

    [IMG]http://static01.********/images/2014/10/26/us/JP-STRUCTURE1/JP-STRUCTURE1-master675.jpg[/IMG]

    Ms. Hinders said that she did not know about the reporting requirement and that for decades, she thought she had been doing everyone a favor.
    Ya, OK, sure... TAX CRIMINAL
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by bxm042 View Post
    Don't want the IRS to take your money? Follow the law, pretty simple...

    Ya, OK, sure... TAX CRIMINAL
    You mean, we shouldn't vote harder to change this?

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    You mean, we shouldn't vote harder to change this?
    Nah, it's fine the way it is. She broke the law.. she didn't know she was breaking the law, but when has that ever mattered?

    Tax evaders gonna tax evade... gotta stop them somehow!
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  25. #22
    Bitcoin, Silver, Gold, Cash money, and enough in your checking for bills.

    I have to much in my checking account right now, Not following my own advice.

  26. #23
    Making sure she pays her fair share. Praise be!
    “One may come to the aid of another being unlawfully arrested, just as he may where one is being assaulted, molested, raped or kidnapped. Thus it is not an offense to liberate one from the unlawful custody of an officer, even though he may have submitted to such custody, without resistance.” (Adams v. State, 121 Ga. 16, 48 S.E. 910).

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtomator View Post
    So much for storing money in a bank for safety. You're better off with a safe and a gun now.
    Not even that. You can't shoot inflation, and Inflation can crack any safe ...
    The Bastiat Collection · FREE PDF · FREE EPUB · PAPER
    Frédéric Bastiat (1801-1850)

    • "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law."
      -- The Law (p. 54)
    • "Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
      -- Government (p. 99)
    • "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
      -- Economic Sophisms - Second Series (p. 312)
    • "There are two principles that can never be reconciled - Liberty and Constraint."
      -- Harmonies of Political Economy - Book One (p. 447)

    · tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito ·



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  29. #25
    Hillary 2016!! Let's make sure we fought WWII for nothing..

  30. #26
    yep The 10 PLANKS stated in the Communist Manifesto and some of their American counterparts are...



    1. Abolition of private property and the application of all rents of land to public purposes.
    Americans do these with actions such as the 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution (1868), and various zoning, school & property taxes. Also the Bureau of Land Management (Zoning laws are the first step to government property ownership)

    2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
    Americans know this as misapplication of the 16th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, 1913, The Social Security Act of 1936.; Joint House Resolution 192 of 1933; and various State "income" taxes. We call it "paying your fair share".

    3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.

    Americans call it Federal & State estate Tax (1916); or reformed Probate Laws, and limited inheritance via arbitrary inheritance tax statutes.


    4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.

    Americans call it government seizures, tax liens, Public "law" 99-570 (1986); Executive order 11490, sections 1205, 2002 which gives private land to the Department of Urban Development; the imprisonment of "terrorists" and those who speak out or write against the "government" (1997 Crime/Terrorist Bill); or the IRS confiscation of property without due process. Asset forfeiture laws are used by DEA, IRS, ATF etc...).


    5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.

    Americans call it the Federal Reserve which is a privately-owned credit/debt system allowed by the Federal Reserve act of 1913. All local banks are members of the Fed system, and are regulated by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) another privately-owned corporation. The Federal Reserve Banks issue Fiat Paper Money and practice economically destructive fractional reserve banking.


    The American Dream, Wake Up People, This is our country! <===click

    "All eyes are opened, or opening to the rights of man, let the annual return of this day(July 4th), forever refresh our recollections of these rights, and an undiminished devotion to them."
    Thomas Jefferson
    June 1826



    Rock The World!
    USAF Veteran

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtomator View Post
    So much for storing money in a bank for safety.
    Regardless of what may have been true in the past, and some notions are eminently questionable, today's banks have nothing to do with safety. FDIC "insurance" is proof positive of that. Even their "public service announcements" on radio unequivocally imply that the threats to your "assets" (HA!) issue not from bank robbers, but from other sources wholly unrelated to overtly violent and physical acts of theft.

    Banks now serve Themme as monitors of money flow and personal transactions. They serve as the choke point Theye may employ to stifle access to the means of purchase or other financial transactions by the Individual, a group, or entire populations. The banks are Theire eye-in-the-sky... perhaps not wholly unlike the one depicted on the dollar bill.

    You're better off with a safe and a gun now.
    Perhaps, but is it not only marginally so?
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  32. #28
    $#@! BANKS $#@! FIAT


    hold tangibles

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...


  33. #29

    IRS seizes woman's entire savings because she deposits less than $10,000 at a time

    An Iowa woman named Carole Hinders saw her bank balance go from $33,000 to zero thanks to IRS confiscation. Hinders, who owns a small, cash-only Mexican restaurant, has not been charged with any crime and is not suspected of tax fraud. The IRS says they took her money solely because she deposited too little of it at a time, and the agency claims she did so to avoid the required reporting of any bank transaction over $10,000. She says she just thought it was helpful to save the bank paperwork.

    Though the $10,000 rule is ostensibly designed to help catch terrorists and drug dealers, it is far more often used on regular citizens who are unlikely to ever see their money returned. "I don't think [the IRS is] really interested in anything," said a lawyer representing another seizure case. "They just want the money."

    To keep her restaurant afloat following the confiscation of her savings, Hinders has had to take out a second mortgage and max out her credit cards. "How can this happen?" she asks. "Who takes your money before they prove that you've done anything wrong with it?"
    http://theweek.com/article/index/270...0000-at-a-time

  34. #30
    Judge Napolitano on FOX BUSINESS w/ Stewart Varney

    The American Dream, Wake Up People, This is our country! <===click

    "All eyes are opened, or opening to the rights of man, let the annual return of this day(July 4th), forever refresh our recollections of these rights, and an undiminished devotion to them."
    Thomas Jefferson
    June 1826



    Rock The World!
    USAF Veteran

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