I am too in love with my dishwasher. It is humming away as we speak. Cut my power and I will commit seppuku.
Pfizer Macht Frei!
Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.
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The Federalist Papers, No. 15:
Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.
I'll admit that I love my dishwasher too. But I could also use leaves like disposable plates, or flat rocks.
I think you could be a survivalist if you hooked up with the right person.
A cheap Mexican/Filipino? I don't like to get my hands nor nails dirty.Originally Posted by amy31416
Pfizer Macht Frei!
Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.
Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!
Short Income Tax Video
The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes
The Federalist Papers, No. 15:
Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.
Dear god, please don't tell me that you're one of those guys who gets manicures.
If he gets the right girl and properly trains her, she can do his dishes and his nails.
well, there is always the traditional option, but they take 9 months to make and then a few years to train...
or...
http://www.countertopdishwasher.com/...dishwasher.htm
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-m...g-machine.html
ah crap - math...
though realistically, just dropping them in a stream for a few hours and then rinsing with filtered water works fine unless you burned something on a pan - that takes elbow grease and sand. Do weigh down lighter items like cups.I am looking at a Zanussi (Electrolux) ZSF 2420.
Normal cycle:
Water: 7 Litres
Washing time with drying: 94mins
Drying time: 13 mins
Energy: 0.8Kw (800 watts)
Fuse:13amps
Vac: 230VAC/50Hz
Heating Element: 1000w
Power rating 1080w.
So 800watts/230V=3.4Amps for 1.5 hours = 5.2 amp hours
So 5.2 amp-hours and 7 litres of water seems pretty reasonable.
The size is fine for two people and can fit pots and pans etc.
A couple things here. First, what they are calling "Energy" should probably be watt-hours or Kw-hours, which is the right unit for energy.
Since it has a 1000 W heating element, and a power rating of 1080 W (watts is a unit of power), its complete washing/drying cycle probably totals up 800 W-h of electrical energy.
Second, amp-hours is shorthand for energy usage from batteries at 12 volts, not 230. That 800 W-h at 12 v = 800/12 = 66.7 a-h. Xantrex gives an efficiency level of 85% for their Freedom inverters, so this would mean 78.4 a-h drawn from the batteries.
It's not insurmountable, but it might be cheaper overall to invest in a little Honda portable generator and use this to power the dishwasher directly. That'll save the need for a couple hundred extra a-h of battery bank, a big inverter, a big engine alternator and a couple extra hours of main engine use every dishwasher cycle. The little generator would also charge your batteries from regular house loads for less cost than running the engine, too boot.
Tim
you are absolutely right the normal cycle consumes 800 Watt-hours of energy over 1.5 hours. So this mean average power consumption of
800watt-hours/1.5hours=530watts.
So 530watts/12v ~ 45 amp draw.
For 1.5 hrs ~ 67.5ah and so 78 ah @ 85% efficiency.
On Eco it uses 630watt-hours (54mins), so 52.5ah @85%eff ~ 62ah
But yes, quite a lot of power to replace using an alternator, wind gen and solar. So probably need an APU or genset of some kind.
Yes it did seem too good to be true. The heating part of the cycle must consume a lot of power.
I think if guys did the washing up there would be more dishwashers on boats. In any case I think for long term live-aboard away from the marina it would be worthwhile. As would a washing machine.
So the question becomes what size boat and genset/ battery bank would be needed to comfortably generate enough energy (and water) to run this system?
I guess we could round up the required power consumption to include generating 7 litres of water as well as one run of the dishwasher a day to say 100 ah.
A washing machine uses ~45 litres and 1000 watt-hours so 83 amp-hours.
So around 100 amp-hours.
So on average 200 ah every second day would require 100ah perday on top of other energy requirements.
So looks like running a genset or maybe the honda once a day for an hour would the only way to keep up with this sort of drain.
Thanks Tim, I forgot the constant in P=V I is the P.
you can wash pants and shirts the same way. just tie legs/arms and drop in a couple of rocks then come back in a couple of hours.
tie the waist closed and you can toss in undies, socks, etc.
speaking of which the outer bend of a stream offers the best refrigeration. streams are useful. Don't leave home without one!
-t
Last edited by tangent4ronpaul; 10-25-2014 at 10:58 PM.
I plan on eating off a stick.
She obviously is a discriminator. That should be tolerated in the liberty movement.
Pfizer Macht Frei!
Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.
Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!
Short Income Tax Video
The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes
The Federalist Papers, No. 15:
Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.
Of course! One can also easily fashion some chopsticks.
It certainly should NOT be tolerated. What's wrong with you? Women being discriminatory? That's ridiculous!
Dishwashers have been crap ever since the on-the-sly removal of phosphates from detergents. Now you can put a completely clean dish in a dishwasher, run its best cycle, and remove a dish covered in chemical filth.
I would have trouble giving up a/c. I would have to move to a colder climate.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2673141/posts
Pittsburgh isn’t even in the Chesapeake watershed. However, like everywhere else apparently phosphates have disappeared from dishwasher detergents. The result is dishes that aren’t particularly clean and feel ‘slimy’.
After some checking, I found that the disappeared phosphate content in dishwasher detergent was around six percent. On a recent visit to the plumbing supply store to get some parts, I found that they still had one pound boxes of the real TSP (trisodium phosphate Na3PO4); not the fake ersatz 'TSP' stuff that Home Depot is only selling. In fact, the real TSP is still available all over the net.
Not being able to find any phosphate containing dishwasher detergent at any grocery store, I decided to make my own. Here’s how:
1. Buy a large 7.5 pound bottle of gel type dishwasher detergent.
2. Dump in a bucket and add one-half of a one pound box of TSP. This will make a 6.25% mix of TSP in the detergent. (Actually the weight percent of Phosphate in TSP (Na3PO4) is 58% making the Phosphate in the mix 6.25 x 0.58 or 3.6% …but… that’s good enough for government work!)
3. Stir with a paint stick. If you want, add a half-cup of water to somewhat reduce the gel viscosity.
4. After about one minute of stirring, the TSP particles will be thoroughly distributed in the gel. (They don’t dissolve but that’s OK as long as they are evenly mixed.)
5. Put back in the bottle ...with the leftover in the empty bottle. (A funnel helps which I had from garage stuff.)
Tried it out yesterday.
.
VIOLA! The dishes are now 'squeaky' clean with no slime film. Also, the dishwasher insides now look clean again.
HOMEMADE DISHWASHER DETERGENT REVISED
http://www.onegoodthingbyjillee.com/...t-revised.html
There’s even a website called BubbleBandit.com that you can buy dishwasher detergent WITH phosphates (they sell “commercial” soap, which is NOT affected by the ban).
http://www.bubblebandit.com/
-t
Ugh..If I have to do all that might as well wash them by hand.
last link - buy it on the net. No mixing required.
the second link requires more mixing, but adds vinegar and the glasses come out sparkling. nice pics!
when this ban snuck through people were buying new dishwashers, thinking theirs had seen better days. It wasn't the dishwasher.
-t
im pretty sure i could survive and id like it. i love hiking long trips and camping for days with much of nothing. my perfect set up would be a spot with a stream. as amy said, clothes washing and whatever can be done just by the flow of the stream. my wife....she would die in one day, if not the first half of the day. lol
Planning on being a dieist?
do you mean Deist?? Im a Deist.
All you need is one fork and knife and spoon.. and you just rinse them and keep them clean... the knife can even be one of those Rambo knives if you want.. the one with the compass in the handle.
You had someone over , cooking for you ? This is how domestication starts .
You mean survivalists can't have dogs? Mines lickin' the dishes clean too.
'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988
Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation
'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3
Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.
...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...
No a die-ist, as in one planning to die instead of survive.
What a surprising insight into the mind of Danke.
I never would have figured the dishwasher to be the one electric appliance that he could not live without.
Yeah, he kinda comes off as a tv dinner/plastic fork sort of fellow.
Well, yeah there is that, but I was thinking more along the lines of other electric devices that would have been much higher on the priority list.
Gross.
Remington Smooth & Silky Bikini Trimmer, Pink 1 ea
'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988
Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation
'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3
Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.
...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...
Life without electronics and music is not worth living. NO THANKS!
If I really wanted to, I could theoretically 'survive' but it's not the type of life that I am psychologically suited for.
“Without music, life would be a mistake.”
-- Friedrich Nietzsche, Twilight of the Idols
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