EOC read the bible!

[Kevin007]

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http://www.readgodsbible.org/greek-orthodox.html

The Greek Orthodox Church and its problems: They teach that performing the seven sacraments are absolutely essential to go to heaven. This is the same damnable heresy which Roman Catholicism teaches. Both have taught for hundreds of years that you have to be part of their church to be saved, which makes them a false church! Jesus is the Truth, not a church. About the Greek Eastern Orthodox Church... There are approx 225 million worldwide and 3 to 5 million in USA. American Branch of Eastern Orthodox was formed in 1922. Background and Formation According to Mead's Handbook of Denominations, The Greek Eastern Orthodox Church formed in 1054 when it split from the Roman Catholic Church. Since 869 AD, the Eastern and Roman were two branches of the same 'Holy Apostolic' church. In 1054 the head or “pontiff” of each group “excommunicated” the other! The Greek Eastern Orthodox rejected the idea that the Roman Pontiff was Supreme Ruler over Eastern Orthodox churches. While Orthodox churches share many of the prayers, litanies, and Eucharistic forms of worship with the Roman Catholic Church, it rejects and differs with Romanism on the following: Greek Orthodox Church Beliefs The Bible - Use the Bible, along with tradition (7 ecumenical councils) as its two authorities. Their Bible adds 3 more apocryphal books than the Catholic Bible does and has 49 OT Books.

Articles: So what's wrong with the Orthodox? Icon worship Real Presence? Vain repetition Guilty of idolatry? Russian orthodox church False ecumenism Statues of Saints? More Russia idolatry Orthodox and Catholic wars The real presence The Biblical Lord's Supper Who are the false teachers? About the Orthodox Books: The Harlot Church System Videos: MUST SEE video Orthodox exposed

Eastern Orthodox Churches believe the Bible teaches without error the Truth needed for Salvation, but must be interpreted within the Tradition of the Church and its 7 Ecumenical Councils from 325AD to 787AD.

God and Jesus Christ
-Greek Orthodox Churches hold to the historical view, like Romanism, that God is Creator of all and that God exists as the Trinity. They believe too that Jesus is Deity as the Son of God who died at Calvary.

HOW ARE WE SAVED?

Salvation is achieved by performing 7 Sacraments during one's lifetime. These are 'Channels' in which we receive God's Grace.

To achieve salvation (justification), both faith and works are considered necessary.
- They reject salvation by faith alone in Jesus Christ. The Orthodox Churches accepts seven sacraments, as does Roman Catholicism.

"Thru Baptism and participation in the church, God's People receive the benefits of Christ's redeeming work as they persevere in Christ. God became a human so human beings might be deified"

Greek Orthodox does not believe in Eternal Security and does not teach the Believer can have Assurance of heaven during this lifetime.

Greek Orthodox churches consider themselves the one true church going back to the days of Peter and Jesus, and that Rome erred when it split from the Greek Orthodox Church in 1054. They believe in Apostolic Succession. There are over 3.5 million Orthodox church members in the U.S. But many more millions in Russia and Europe, where Greek Orthodox is prominent.

Baptism and the Lord's Supper

Greek Orthodox believes baptism is a sacrament necessary to salvation, and usually occurs in infants. "Baptism initiates God's life in the one baptized. Sprinkling is rejected, and 3-fold immersion is practiced.

In the Eucharist, the bread and wine are 'changed into Jesus' body and blood' (mystery left unexplained)

[Kevin007]

looks like faith plus works to me- or better yet, faith plus sacraments.

[heavenlyboy34]

Yes, we of the EOC read the bible. (I can only read the title because you're on ignore. Just wanted to thank you for admitting this.)

ETA: here is the orthodox study bible: http://www.amazon.com/The-Orthodox-S...ox+study+bible and the classic orthdox bible http://www.amazon.com/Classic-Orthod...ox+study+bible Feel free to read it. The first one especially is standard reading in US Orthodox parishes.

[Kevin007]

A wrong object of faith is Sacramentalism. The belief
in participating in a series of religious rituals to receive
God's grace. Belief of a sacrament as "a visible symbol
of invisible grace."


Sacramentalism arose during the Middle Ages and was
developed by the Scholastics. Thomas Aquinas said that
the sacraments have virtue in themselves. They are
therefore seen as channels of grace and are
administered by a priest. The participant receives
righteousness by using them.
The church has long practiced two ordinances, baptism and the Lord's Supper, as
commanded in the Bible. It was probably inevitable that some one would mistakenly give
these ordinances the same spiritual power as the written Word of God. The Roman
Catholic church gave these two ordinances sacramental force and added five others:
confirmation, penance, extreme unction, ordination, and marriage.


The Seven Sacraments

Baptism taught to be the door to the Kingdom of God and to the
other sacraments.

Confirmation taught to complete what baptism begins and to
confer grace in ever-increasing strength.

Eucharist believed to confer the food of spiritual life in the body
and blood of Christ.

Penance believed to remove the guilt of daily sin as baptism is
said to remove the guilt of original sin.

Extreme Unction believed to heal the soul of sins that are not
remitted by penance.

Ordination believed to empower a person to administer the
sacraments.

Marriage taught to make the union of man and woman perpetual
and bring it into harmony with the picture of Christ and the
church.


The Bible teaches salvation is by grace through faith, and faith alone. Paul declared,
"Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord
Jesus Christ" (Rom. 5:1). He also wrote, "For by grace you have been saved through faith,
and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should
boast" (Eph. 2:8-9).
The idea that sacraments convey God's grace to us is foreign to the New Testament.
Baptism is presented clearly as a symbol of our union with Jesus Christ through faith
(Rom. 6:1-5), and the Lord's Supper is shown to be a simple memorial (Lk. 22:19; 1 Cor.
11:23-34).
What does the Bible say?
The following verses show that faith in Sacramentalism is the
wrong faith:
l
Isaiah 1:10
You are no better than the leaders and people of Sodom and Gomorrah!
So listen to the LORD God:
l
Isaiah 1:11
"Your sacrifices mean nothing to me. I am sick of your offerings of
rams and choice cattle; I don't like the blood of bulls or lambs or goats.
l
Isaiah 1:12
"Who asked you to bring all this when you come to worship me? Stay
out of my temple!
l
Isaiah 1:13
Your sacrifices are worthless, and incense is disgusting. I can't stand
the evil you do on your New Moon Festivals or on your Sabbaths and other times
of worship.
l
Isaiah 1:14
I hate your New Moon Festivals and all others as well. They are a
heavy burden I am tired of carrying.
l
Isaiah 1:15
"No matter how much you pray, I won't listen. You are too violent.
l
Isaiah 1:16
Wash yourselves clean! I am disgusted with your filthy deeds. Stop
doing wrong
l
Jeremiah 6:19
My people ignored me and rejected my laws. They planned to do
evil, and now the evil they planned will happen to them."
l
Jeremiah 6:20
People of Judah, you bring me incense from Sheba and spices from
distant lands. You offer sacrifices of all kinds. But why bother? I hate these gifts of
yours!
l
Jeremiah 6:21
So I will put stumbling blocks in your path, and everyone will die,
including parents and children, neighbors and friends.


l
Hosea 8:11
Israel, you have built many altars where you offer sacrifices for sin.
But these altars have become places for sin.
l
Hosea 8:12
My instructions for sacrifices were written in detail, but you ignored
them.
l
Hosea 8:13
You sacrifice your best animals and eat the sacrificial meals, but I, the
LORD, refuse your offerings. I will remember your sins and punish you. Then you
will return to Egypt.
l
Hosea 8:14
Israel, I created you, but you forgot me. You and Judah built palaces
and many strong cities. Now I will send fire to destroy your towns and fortresses.


When the word sacrament was first applied to baptism in the latter part of the second
century AD, it was associated with some erroneous ideas that had been drawn into
Christendom from the Greek mystery religions. The converts from paganism were
accustomed to having cleansing ceremonies for spiritual purification, and they began to
think of baptism as a means by which the stain of sin was removed. These former pagans
had been involved in practices they had looked on as having special powers, so it was only
a small step for them to view the waters of baptism as possessing redemptive value.
Constantine, the Roman emperor who made Christianity the state religion in the fourth
century, reportedly postponed his baptism until he was on his deathbed. We presume that
he hoped all his sins would be washed away just before he died.
By the 12th century, as many as 30 different rites and ceremonies were being practiced in
the church. These were called either "mysteries" or "sacraments." That number, of course,
has been gradually reduced, but the term sacramenthas been retained. And for many it
still refers to something that provides a special means of grace. These people therefore
think of salvation as a combination of faith, good works, and the sacraments. The biblical
teaching of salvation by grace through faith alone has been lost to them.


Sacramentalism is still with us today. Because of the misleading connotation attached to
the word sacrament,I repeat my conviction that we should be very careful to refer to the
ordinancesrather than the sacraments of the church. So important is it that we make plain
the way of salvation by grace through faith--apart from works or ritual--that even in our
terminology we must avoid giving the impression that baptism has any saving power.
We should never baptize anyone who had the idea that doing so would wash away sin. If
someone requests to be baptized, first ask him if he or she knew its meaning. Make sure
they understood that it has no saving power whatever. I would then want to hear from his
own lips a clear testimony that he has recognized what the Lord Jesus accomplished for
him at Calvary through His sacrifice for sin, and that he has placed his trust in Jesus
Christ, and in Him alone, for salvation. Being assured of that, and satisfied that he
recognized baptism as an ordinance rather than a sacrament of the church (that it has no
redemptive value), Only then should they be encourage to be baptized.
There are those who insist that baptism, confirmation, penance, the partaking of the bread
and the wine, ordination, marriage, and extreme unction are all to be recognized as
sacramental. They therefore look on each of these observances as a means by which
supernatural grace is received. According to this belief:

l
Baptism
is thought to wash away the stain of sin.
l
Confirmation
(which includes laying on of hands, anointing, and prayers) is said
to bestow the sevenfold grace of the Holy Spirit on the person who has already
been baptized.
l
In
penance,
the forgiveness of post-baptism mortal sins is supposedly obtained by
those who are truly sorry for their sin, make confession, and perform the duties
imposed on them.
l
In
ordination,
a special grace is said to be given for the work and temptations
involved in serving God.
l
When the
bread
and
wine
are blessed, it is asserted that they actually become the
body and blood of Christ, and that the one who partakes of them receives a
measure of grace.
l
In
marriage,
the man and woman joined in wedlock are said to receive grace to
discharge faithfully the duties of the marital state until death.
In
extreme unction,
those who appear to be near death are anointed with oil and prayed
over. This is done, supposedly, to impart special grace, enabling the dying soul to confide
in the mercy of God and to resist the final attacks and temptations of the devil.
The idea of supernatural bestowment of grace through the ritual is prominent in each of
these seven "sacraments." We don't see it this way. Rather than recognizing seven
sacraments which are claimed to impart some spiritual graces, we observe only two
ordinances: baptism and the Lord's Supper. We see them as symbolizing certain spiritual
realities.
Some religious groups recognize a third church ordinance--foot-washing. Following the
example of Christ with His disciples, they engage in that practice as an outward expression of humility, and of their willing submission to one another. Although we may not follow that custom, we do respect those born-again believers who do.

http://www.buzzardhut.net/index/htm/Sacramentalism.pdf

[TER]

Kevin, as a bit of friendly advice, you may want to consider editing your copy-paste articles to be more easy to read. It is bad enough the content is woefully inaccurate, at least make it easy on the eyes to read. I think more people may then actually read them.

[Kevin007]

Kevin, as a bit of friendly advice, you may want to consider editing your copy-paste articles to be more easy to read. It is bad enough the content is woefully inaccurate, at least make it easy on the eyes to read. I think more people may then actually read them.

its woefully inaccurate because..... you said so? Prove it.

[TER]

its woefully inaccurate because..... you said so? Prove it.

I stopped after the first line which read : They teach that performing the seven sacraments are absolutely essential to go to heaven.

First of all, that is an arbitrary list of sacraments as there is no set number of sacraments, BTW, rather seven which are well described.

Second, the sacraments are not our ticket to paradise. God is our ticket to paradise. Not he Sacraments are simply grace-filled mysteries God has established in our journey to Him.

Third, one of those in the list of seven is ordination. So this misinformed writer thinks that the Greek Orthodox Church teaches that one must become an ordained priest in order to be saved. That is nonsense and confirms this writer has no clue what they are talking about. Likely they follow your practice of pasting any polemic they can even though it is unfactual and poorly researched.

[Kevin007]

SO WHAT about the communion and confession, etc.. the EOC says it is needed for salvation. You must partake in those and other sacraments to be part of the "true" church.

[Kevin007]

and no one has answered me this. Both you and the RCC claim itself as the one true church.

[Terry1]

Ah jeez---I'm beginning to think that some serious therapy is needed here. Kevin---sometimes it's not a spiritual problem, but just a matter of adjusting the chemical imbalance.

Kevin isn't really reading this--no-no--not even a peek.

[TER]

SO WHAT about the communion and confession, etc.. the EOC says it is needed for salvation. You must partake in those and other sacraments to be part of the "true" church.

Wrong. These are mysteries and gifts of grace given by God to His faithful. Never having communed of the Holy Eucharist, for example, those martyrs who publicly converted to Christ and were killed immediately (and there are multiple Saints whereby this has happened) did not preclude them from salvation. God's mercy is not limited to men. He will show mercy to whomever He wills. That does not mean however that there is no grace-filled and God-pleasing way to God which He has established.

[Kevin007]

ok, Terry- I'm taking you off ignore. I apologize for doing that I hope we can be civil to eachother. I'm sorry if I offended you many times in the past. Can we try to start over? I'll try to stick to topics and put things in my own words as much as possible. Deal? Please do the same.

[Kevin007]

ok, done. Back to normal.

[TER]

and no one has answered me this. Both you and the RCC claim itself as the one true church.

Yes they do. The RCC is wrong.

They will of course disagree. But that is fine. That the two ancient Churches considers itself the one true Church does not negate that one is actually it, but rather only lends more credence that one is it. You want to narrow down your search for the New Testament Church, narrow it down to one of those two which can actually provide real historical and apostolic claims.

[Kevin007]

I believe the true Church Ter is made up off all Believers.

[Kevin007]

btw it looks like Terry didn't see my apology for putting her on ignore. I took her off.

[TER]

I believe the true Church Ter is made up off all Believers.

No you don't. You reject Orthodox Christians and Roman Catholics who believe that Christ is Lord and died for their sins. How many article have you posted which call the EOs and RCs diabolical and unsaved?

[Kevin007]

I believe there are born again Believers in many different churches, despite incorrect doctrine being taught.

[TER]

I believe there are born again Believers in many different churches, despite incorrect doctrine being taught.

And what are the said requirements to be labelled a 'Believer'?

[Kevin007]

And what are the said requirements to be labelled a 'Believer'?

you already know God's requirements. I agree with the Creator. Accept Jesus as our personal Savior.

[RJB]

I believe there are born again Believers in many different churches, despite incorrect doctrine being taught.

You should read your own cut and pastes. Your posts don't agree with you. You've posted stuff saying we weren't saved for believing stuff we don't actually believe.

[TER]

you already know God's requirements. I agree with the Creator. Accept Jesus as our personal Savior.

I do accept Jesus as my personal Savior. So why do you bother me and attack my faith? I do good works to please my Savior, but you attack me saying that I rely on my works.

[Kevin007]

I do accept Jesus as my personal Savior. So why do you bother me and attack my faith? I do good works to please my Savior, but you attack me saying that I rely on my works.

well obv. we have different interpretations. My faith is attacked also- every day on here. You do know that, right?

[TER]

well obv. we have different interpretations. My faith is attacked also- every day on here. You do know that, right?

Then defend it by all means. We can have honest debate. But use good and knowledgable sources which generate good debate instead of posting lies and blatant fallacies.

[RJB]

well obv. we have different interpretations. My faith is attacked also- every day on here. You do know that, right?

Oh? Who posted a thread "Kevin007 read the bible!"?

[heavenlyboy34]

Oh? Who posted a thread "Kevin007 read the bible!"?

And the "Eastern Orthdoxy vs. Biblical Christianity: What are the key differences?", and a number of other such nonsense threads.

[Terry1]

Oh? Who posted a thread "Kevin007 read the bible!"?

They create threads to debate our belief and then put us on ignore or run off. Go figure. At least when I posted a thread in rebuttal to the dozens that kevin's posted against us, I stuck with it--I didn't run away and put them on ignore. lol

[RJB]

Sacramentalism arose during the Middle Ages and was developed by the Scholastics. Thomas Aquinas said...

Of the many faults of this thread, this stood out. You do realize this was after the schism and was rejected by Orthodoxy and eventually influenced the reformers?

[Kevin007]

how did it influence the reformers?

[heavenlyboy34]

Of the many faults of this thread, this stood out. You do realize this was after the schism and was rejected by Orthodoxy and eventually influenced the reformers?

I doubt he does. I see so much ignorance coming from him when I bother to read his posts. :/ Pray for him, brother.