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Thread: Rand Paul: Religious Freedom Dying at the Altar of Political Correctness

  1. #1

    Rand Paul: Religious Freedom Dying at the Altar of Political Correctness

    ...

    EXCLUSIVE — RAND PAUL: RELIGIOUS FREEDOM DYING AT ALTAR OF POLITICAL CORRECTNESS

    by SEN. RAND PAUL 21 Oct 2014, 11:36 AM PDT

    On October 31, 1517, Martin Luther posted his Ninety-Five theses on the door of the Castle Church of Wittenberg. Christianity was for all time changed by one man's confrontation with authority.

    For his audacity, for alleging that one's path to heaven could not be purchased, Luther was excommunicated. It took great bravery to challenge what was then considered to be the ultimate arbiter of God's will. Luther was told, effectively, that his pathway to heaven was foreclosed.

    When the Mayor of Houston, sent her legal attack dogs to demand the sermons of ministers who opposed an ordinance that might prevent churches from hiring people who adhered to a traditional faith, my first thought was of Martin Luther and my hope was that someone would, in elaborate calligraphy, stencil the First Amendment upon parchment and nail it to the doors of city hall.

    “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

    The Amendment was clear, and its intent was not to keep religious people out of government, but rather to keep government out of religion.

    There has been, and will be, an ongoing debate about the role of government in marriage—what our laws should be, and where they are made.

    But make no mistake—that’s not what this is about.

    Some will make this debate about freedom of choice, but the only way this is about choice is if we are talking about the choice with regards to expression. No one, no law is advocating any restriction on the choices of consenting adults, but for goodness sakes are we so politically correct that we will stifle dissent? Will there be no room for people who have traditional beliefs?

    (read the rest) http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...al-Correctness
    Last edited by Valli6; 10-21-2014 at 01:00 PM.



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  3. #2
    too much all at once... I'm still mourning the death of spelling

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtomator View Post
    too much all at once... I'm still mourning the death of spelling
    Are you referring to the word "alter" instead of "altar"? They fixed that.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Valli6 View Post
    Are you referring to the word "alter" instead of "altar"? They fixed that.
    Yeah they altered the altar.

    But not in the thread title :P
    In New Zealand:
    The Coastguard is a Charity
    Air Traffic Control is a private company run on user fees
    The DMV is a private non-profit
    Rescue helicopters and ambulances are operated by charities and are plastered with corporate logos
    The agriculture industry has zero subsidies
    5% of the national vote, gets you 5 seats in Parliament
    A tax return has 4 fields
    Business licenses aren't a thing
    Prostitution is legal
    We have a constitutional right to refuse any type of medical care

  6. #5
    If your Church is tax-exempt then the government is paying you to shut up.

    Stop taking the governments bribes. Revoke your own charitable status and chew the state out every Sunday.
    In New Zealand:
    The Coastguard is a Charity
    Air Traffic Control is a private company run on user fees
    The DMV is a private non-profit
    Rescue helicopters and ambulances are operated by charities and are plastered with corporate logos
    The agriculture industry has zero subsidies
    5% of the national vote, gets you 5 seats in Parliament
    A tax return has 4 fields
    Business licenses aren't a thing
    Prostitution is legal
    We have a constitutional right to refuse any type of medical care

  7. #6
    I hope Rand keeps this up. There is an all out assault on religious liberty in this country, and by speaking out on this hopefully Rand will be seen as a champion of religious liberty to voters in Iowa.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by idiom View Post
    If your Church is tax-exempt then the government is paying you to shut up.

    Stop taking the governments bribes. Revoke your own charitable status and chew the state out every Sunday.
    Can't tell if serious.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by idiom View Post
    If your Church is tax-exempt then the government is paying you to shut up.

    Stop taking the governments bribes. Revoke your own charitable status and chew the state out every Sunday.
    If someone does not rob you, that means you are taking bribes from them?



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  11. #9
    This is the type of editorial that might persuade the religious right to become more libertarian. This was a very good opportunity that Rand will score big points for.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by anaconda View Post
    This is the type of editorial that might persuade the religious right to become more libertarian. This was a very good opportunity that Rand will score big points for.
    ^^^Exactly. The religious right and libertarians should be in lock step on these issues dealing with religious liberty.

  13. #11
    Political correctness was invented by an atheist communist, Leon Trotsky...so it should come as absolutely no surprise that it's hostile towards Christianity.

    In the future, an attempt will be made to criminalize Christianity, then the republic of the United States will be replaced with a communist dictatorship.

    This is the end-game of political correctness.
    Last edited by DFF; 10-21-2014 at 07:00 PM.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by DFF View Post
    Political correctness was invented by an atheist communist, Leon Trotsky...so it should come as absolutely no surprise that it's hostile towards Christianity.

    In the future, an attempt will be made to criminalize Christianity, then the republic of the United States will be replaced with a communist dictatorship.

    This is the end-game of political correctness.
    Would that be against all religions or just the one (or many variations under that same name)?
    "When a portion of wealth is transferred from the person who owns it—without his consent and without compensation, and whether by force or by fraud—to anyone who does not own it, then I say that property is violated; that an act of plunder is committed." - Bastiat : The Law

    "nothing evil grows in alcohol" ~ @presence

    "I mean can you imagine what it would be like if firemen acted like police officers? They would only go into a burning house only if there's a 100% chance they won't get any burns. I mean, you've got to fully protect thy self first." ~ juleswin

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    ^^^Exactly. The religious right and libertarians should be in lock step on these issues dealing with religious liberty.
    You know I'm not much for the idea of social liberalism or gay marriage, but the "religious right" only supports freedom when convenient for them. It isn't even really based on Biblical law, there are no drug laws in the OT nor is there ever "national service" (ie. a draft) but the "religious right" doesn't really care.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFanatic View Post
    You know I'm not much for the idea of social liberalism or gay marriage, but the "religious right" only supports freedom when convenient for them. It isn't even really based on Biblical law, there are no drug laws in the OT nor is there ever "national service" (ie. a draft) but the "religious right" doesn't really care.
    But if they begin to accept Rand they may, as a matter of course, reconcile themselves to other "forgiving" and "redemptive" policy stands, which may be anti-state also. Maybe Rand should begin to paint the government as Rome 33 AD incarnate.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFanatic View Post
    You know I'm not much for the idea of social liberalism or gay marriage, but the "religious right" only supports freedom when convenient for them. It isn't even really based on Biblical law, there are no drug laws in the OT nor is there ever "national service" (ie. a draft) but the "religious right" doesn't really care.
    1) That's beside the point. I said that libertarians should be able to agree with religious conservatives when it comes to issues of religious liberty. Libertarians and religious conservatives have common ground on that issue, even though they disagree on other issues.

    2) Is the left or any other political group in the United States other than libertarians really any better than the "religious right" when it comes to the war on drugs? Can you name a single Democratic member of Congress who supports legalizing marijuana, let alone other drugs?
    Last edited by Brett85; 10-21-2014 at 08:14 PM.

  18. #16
    And I haven't seen any evidence that people on the religious right support a draft. The only people I know of who have advocated the idea of bringing back the draft are liberal Democrats in Congress.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    1) That's beside the point. I said that libertarians should be able to agree with religious conservatives when it comes to issues of religious liberty. Libertarians and religious conservatives have common ground on that issue, even though they disagree on other issues.
    I disagree. libertarians should be FAR MORE RADICALLY in favor of religious freedom than the religious right.

    2) Is the left or any other political group in the United States other than libertarians really any better than the "religious right" when it comes to the war on drugs. Can you name a single Democratic member of Congress who supports legalizing marijuana, let alone other drugs?
    The left is little better. I wasn't implying that the left was any better. The religious right annoys me because of the religious aspect of their statism.

    As for non-libertarian political ideologies, the only one I can think of that is any better would be theonomists, and they are even more politically irrelevant than we are.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    And I haven't seen any evidence that people on the religious right support a draft. The only people I know of who have advocated the idea of bringing back the draft are liberal Democrats in Congress.
    I know some who do. But you're likely right that many are not.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFanatic View Post
    I disagree. libertarians should be FAR MORE RADICALLY in favor of religious freedom than the religious right.
    Well, they're not. The religious right seems to be far more radically in favor of defending the right of the pastors in Houston to not turn over their sermons to the government, the right of ministers in Idaho not to be forced to officiate same sex wedding ceremonies, etc. I've seen plenty of comments from people here expressing an anti religious freedom view on those issues.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFanatic View Post
    As for non-libertarian political ideologies, the only one I can think of that is any better would be theonomists, and they are even more politically irrelevant than we are.
    Theonomists support legalizing drugs?

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    Well, they're not.
    Yes they are. "libertarians" may not be, but actual libertarians are.

    The religious right seems to be far more radically in favor of defending the right of the pastors in Houston to not turn over their sermons to the government, the right of ministers in Idaho not to be forced to officiate same sex wedding ceremonies, etc. I've seen plenty of comments from people here expressing an anti religious freedom view on those issues.
    Yeah. Non-libertarians masquerading as libertarians.
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    Theonomists support legalizing drugs?
    Of course. Why wouldn't they?

  25. #22
    TC, perhaps I'm being too difficult. I understand the point that you're making, which is that social liberalism is trumping liberty for a lot of people here, and that this is one area where there's absolutely no good reason to oppose the religious right. You know I'm no fan of social liberalism. But, the religious right is filled with anti-liberty hypocrites, and I see no good reason to forget that.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFanatic View Post
    Of course. Why wouldn't they?
    Because there weren't drug laws in the Bible? Wouldn't they then still be in favor of stoning homosexuals and adulterers?

  27. #24
    The religious right only want less government when it comes to their churches. Something I support but once that is accomplished, they want to use the government to stick their noses in other peoples business. Big government is okay when it's used to "spread the word of the bible."



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  29. #25
    Wouldn't this come under "don't seek compromise; build coalitions"?

  30. #26
    Yup, just like all the cake bakers and florists whom are required to provide service to "people" they don't want to. Tax exempt has nothing to do with the church. I work on my churches board and also know a thing or to about finances. If we were a "for profit" institution we could easily show all of our expenses and pay nothing it taxes anyway. The only thing that would change would be member donations losing their tax status as a deduction.

    Tax exempt or not the first amendment is quite clear.

    Quote Originally Posted by idiom View Post
    If your Church is tax-exempt then the government is paying you to shut up.

    Stop taking the governments bribes. Revoke your own charitable status and chew the state out every Sunday.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by twomp View Post
    The religious right only want less government when it comes to their churches. Something I support but once that is accomplished, they want to use the government to stick their noses in other peoples business. Big government is okay when it's used to "spread the word of the bible."
    You are correct that there is a lot of religious right that want nothing but to use goverment as their bully. But there are plenty of good Christians who see through that. I'd bet there are several Christians on this board right now.

    You shouldn't demonize an entire voting block because they disagree with you on a certain issue, especially when you can find common ground.

    Some liberals don't want to be in the empire building business. Does that mean that libertarians should change their mind about military to conform with them?

  32. #28
    I have to agree with other posters that the religious right is typically a bunch of hypocrites when it comes to religious freedom. Anyone still remember the big deal made about the mosque near the world trade centers? Or the countless attempts to bar mosques from chrisitian communities?

    That being said, that should not tar a whole 'group' of people, and the only way to move the ball forward on liberty is to build coalitions, whether they be with liberals, far right tea partiers, mainstream centrists, the religious right, racists, extreme libertarians or socialists. Sometimes the politicians building that coalition have to suck up and pander to make any particular group feel special, to convince them that the cause of liberty really does affect them. Enter Rand.
    "Freedom, then Pizza!" - Oklahoma State GOP Convention 5/11/2012

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    Because there weren't drug laws in the Bible?
    There weren't. Hence the "why wouldn't they?"

    Wouldn't they then still be in favor of stoning homosexuals and adulterers?
    Yes, and I disagree with that, but I don't see what that has to do with being better on the war on drugs.

  34. #30
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

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