10 Reasons Why Salvation By Works Does Not Work

[Terry1]

I'm not following everything really closely, so I have to ask this question for clarity: Is the argument an 'either, or' thing? Or can it be both? In other words, salvation through faith and works? And not, salvation through faith only - or, salvation through works only.

Deb, until the OSAS crowd understands the difference between "the law of dead works" and the "good works of faith"--we won't make any headway here. They're still confusing "the law" mentioned by Paul that we are not to do vs the "good works" mentioned by both Paul and James who are teaching us to do in order for faith to live.

I just keep repeating it hoping to chip away at their current belief and allow them to see where they err.

[navy-vet]

he work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.” Amen!

[Terry1]

Kevin--saying you have me on ignore while reading me while you're logged out is not "ignoring" me. All this is saying is that you refuse to be confronted with truth because you're unable to respond intelligently. You're like a child throwing stones and running away. I know you're peeking.

[navy-vet]

So, according to the Terry position, if a person chooses to live the remainder of a life in seclusion somewhere, away from their fellow humans, unable to perform the "works ritual", then they are sentenced to burn in hell for all of eternity when they die whether or not they have repented and accepted Jesus Christ, but because they failed to perform for the church and keep their faith alive?

How about someone who seeks isolation for such reasons, as suffering PTSD, or who is fleeing from an injustice, or a persecution for their race or ethnicity, or a lost soldier hiding from an enemy on an island who is killed...
Is Henry David Thoreau burning in hell because he chose a life away from his fellow human beings?

[Christian Liberty]

Why--is Mom yelling down the basement stairs again because the Twinkies are missing?

I am away at college now, thank you very much.

That's probably the only thing FF has got right. I be a "she" for sure. Although--sometimes I get the feeling I'd fair a bit better amongst some of the OSAS wimin folk if I was a man. You guys seem to get better treatment even though we agree on scripture. Kevin and FF don't cut you guys any slack though. I should protest, but then would that make me a protestant?

Because HB usually isn't stupid and combative. Time and time again you have showed yourself to be. It isn't about scripture interpretations. Mind you, scripture interpretations DO matter, and I have issues with the way HB interprets them, but the reason I am attacking you is because you have REPEATEDLY lied about me and people who think like I do.

Are you stoning me Lily?

John 10:32

Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

Theonomists like Gary North would probably be too hypocritical to stone heretics like you, even though you are far more poisonous to Christians than any Muslim or atheist. Of course, I do not believe the OT law against blasphemers and public idoalters should be applied today, so as far as I am concerned you are too safe, until you die and meet God.

Kevin--saying you have me on ignore while reading me while you're logged out is not "ignoring" me. All this is saying is that you refuse to be confronted with truth because you're unable to respond intelligently. You're like a child throwing stones and running away. I know you're peeking.

lol. Kevin looks like Albert Einstein compared to you.

[navy-vet]

That sounds like Catholicism doctrine maybe?

[Kevin007]

I am away at college now, thank you very much.


Because HB usually isn't stupid and combative. Time and time again you have showed yourself to be. It isn't about scripture interpretations. Mind you, scripture interpretations DO matter, and I have issues with the way HB interprets them, but the reason I am attacking you is because you have REPEATEDLY lied about me and people who think like I do.


Theonomists like Gary North would probably be too hypocritical to stone heretics like you, even though you are far more poisonous to Christians than any Muslim or atheist. Of course, I do not believe the OT law against blasphemers and public idoalters should be applied today, so as far as I am concerned you are too safe, until you die and meet God.


lol. Kevin looks like Albert Einstein compared to you.

thanks FF. And I'm not reading her when logged out lol

[navy-vet]

That sounds like Catholicism doctrine maybe?

With a communist flavor. I mean, I don't mean to insult anyone here in regards to this matter, but just seek a friendly discourse.
I am but a visitor to this World and am just passing through. As I suspect you are.

[Brett85]

It always amazes me that the "Religion Forum" is always the most uncivil forum on this website.

[navy-vet]

Are you stoning me Lily?

John 10:32

Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

Are you comparing yourself to Jesus Terry?

[navy-vet]

It always amazes me that the "Religion Forum" is always the most uncivil forum on this website.

Religion and politics are quite often robust. They are frequently the root catalysts for wars and heart attacks I would think.

[navy-vet]

Religion and politics are quite often robust. They are frequently the root catalysts for wars and heart attacks I would think.

After all, it is often where good and evil come face to face.

[TER]

So, according to the Terry position, if a person chooses to live the remainder of a life in seclusion somewhere, away from their fellow humans, unable to perform the "works ritual", then they are sentenced to burn in hell for all of eternity when they die whether or not they have repented and accepted Jesus Christ, but because they failed to perform for the church and keep their faith alive?

How about someone who seeks isolation for such reasons, as suffering PTSD, or who is fleeing from an injustice, or a persecution for their race or ethnicity, or a lost soldier hiding from an enemy on an island who is killed...
Is Henry David Thoreau burning in hell because he chose a life away from his fellow human beings?

The Christian prayer is communal, never alone, even when one is a hermit living in the desert. Each person in prayer participates as one member of the Body of Christ, as a fellow worker in worship for the union of all in Christ. We pray silently to God alone in a closet or together in liturgy and assembly to glorify God and taste of the Kingdom of Heaven. In neither instance are we alone with God, but like a branch of a tree, before a cloud of witnesses, living the renewed life in Christ as beings of communion, in trinitarian form, between ourself, God, and our neighbor, which is the fulfillment of the cosmos made possible through the mystery of the Incarnate Word of God.

[Christian Liberty]

It always amazes me that the "Religion Forum" is always the most uncivil forum on this website.

That's because there are more idiots there. RPF generally attracts political intelligence, but religion is all over the place. Again, its a shame that Terry is still allowed to post here even while SF and Nang are in exile (not that the latter would ever return here anyway.)

[Terry1]

I am away at college now, thank you very much.


Because HB usually isn't stupid and combative. Time and time again you have showed yourself to be. It isn't about scripture interpretations. Mind you, scripture interpretations DO matter, and I have issues with the way HB interprets them, but the reason I am attacking you is because you have REPEATEDLY lied about me and people who think like I do.


Theonomists like Gary North would probably be too hypocritical to stone heretics like you, even though you are far more poisonous to Christians than any Muslim or atheist. Of course, I do not believe the OT law against blasphemers and public idoalters should be applied today, so as far as I am concerned you are too safe, until you die and meet God.


lol. Kevin looks like Albert Einstein compared to you.

Is this all you and your friends have left? Seems this is an indication that you've all ran out of wits. Kevin and Lily create threads like these and then place the very people they're disagreeing with on ignore or just run away? A babe on the milk is as a babe does I guess. Then it's safe to say that there will be no more rebuttals?

[Christian Liberty]

Is this all you and your friends have left? Seems this is an indication that you've all ran out of wits. Kevin and Lily create threads like these and then place the very people they're disagreeing with on ignore or just run away? A babe on the milk is as a babe does I guess. Then it's safe to say that there will be no more rebuttals?

I can't speak for Kevin and Lily, but I have no intentions of taking anything you say seriously ever again. You should fall on your face and repent. If you ever want to do that, you will know where to find me. Until then I'm just going to mock you, which is all that a proud, unrepentant enemy of God who lies and slanders her opponents deserves.

[Terry1]

I can't speak for Kevin and Lily, but I have no intentions of taking anything you say seriously ever again. You should fall on your face and repent. If you ever want to do that, you will know where to find me. Until then I'm just going to mock you, which is all that a proud, unrepentant enemy of God who lies and slanders her opponents deserves.

[TER]

I can't speak for Kevin and Lily, but I have no intentions of taking anything you say seriously ever again. You should fall on your face and repent. If you ever want to do that, you will know where to find me. Until then I'm just going to mock you, which is all that a proud, unrepentant enemy of God who lies and slanders her opponents deserves.

Why don't you get some friends outside of the internet and maybe get a life? Perhaps even find a girl and get a date? Do you want to waste your youth showing off your ignorance and malice staring at a computer screen? I don't think I ever read anything you wrote which was worthwhile or edifying yet you sit there casting stones at Terry who does more to help those less fortunate in one day then you have probably done this whole year. Seriously, get a life man.

[navy-vet]

That's because there are more idiots there. RPF generally attracts political intelligence, but religion is all over the place. Again, its a shame that Terry is still allowed to post here even while SF and Nang are in exile (not that the latter would ever return here anyway.)

Seriously FF, you would deny Terry her first amendment rights here? Because she has a belief that is different than yours, or you feel is inferior intellectually?

[Kevin007]

Why don't you get some friends outside of the internet and maybe get a life? Perhaps even find a girl and get a date? Do you want to waste your youth showing off your ignorance and malice staring at a computer screen? I don't think I ever read anything you wrote which was worthwhile or edifying yet you sit there casting stones at Terry who does more to help those less fortunate in one day then you have probably done this whole year. Seriously, get a life man.

cmon Ter- you do not know what FF does when he is not on here. That was not cool. I'm far far far from perfect but that was low.

[Terry1]

cmon Ter- you do not know what FF does when he is not on here. That was not cool. I'm far far far from perfect but that was low.

FF needs his hat handed to him. He adds nothing to the discussion but personal attacks. I feel sorry for him actually and is why I take nothing he says serious. TER has more nobility and integrity in his little finger than you, FF and all of your lit'l friends put together.

[Terry1]

Seriously FF, you would deny Terry her first amendment rights here? Because she has a belief that is different than yours, or you feel is inferior intellectually?

[navy-vet]

The Christian prayer is communal, never alone, even when one is a hermit living in the desert. Each person in prayer participates as one member of the Body of Christ, as a fellow worker in worship for the union of all in Christ. We pray silently to God alone in a closet or together in liturgy and assembly to glorify God and taste of the Kingdom of Heaven. In neither instance are we alone with God, but like a branch of a tree, before a cloud of witnesses, living the renewed life in Christ as beings of communion, in trinitarian form, between ourself, God, and our neighbor, which is the fulfillment of the cosmos made possible through the mystery of the Incarnate Word of God.

thank you TER I have been saying that prayer every night, some times multiple times for the past three years now as I struggled through a health crisis. I have found peace and comfort and have improved both physically as well as spiritually. In fact I was going to ask my dear friends Miss Annie and Lily about this prayer and it's amazing power. Now I am not saying that it is magical as I do not believe that God acts as a magician pulling rabbits out of hats and such. Not that I doubt he could, I just believe that he limits his self to using the physical forces that he created in interacting with this World.
Anyway, I have found that the prayer has some very special and comforting aspects and consider it a great gift.

[Kevin007]

FF needs his hat handed to him. He adds nothing to the discussion but personal attacks. I feel sorry for him actually and is why I take nothing he says serious. TER has more nobility and integrity in his little finger than you, FF and all of your lit'l friends put together.

pot meet kettle?

[TER]

thank you TER I have been saying that prayer every night, some times multiple times for the past three years now as I struggled through a health crisis. I have found peace and comfort and have improved both physically as well as spiritually. In fact I was going to ask my dear friends Miss Annie and Lily about this prayer and it's amazing power. Now I am not saying that it is magical as I do not believe that God acts as a magician pulling rabbits out of hats and such. Not that I doubt he could, I just believe that he limits his self to using the physical forces that he created in interacting with this World.
Anyway, I have found that the prayer has some very special and comforting aspects and consider it a great gift.

Which prayer is that, friend?

[lilymc]

I believe I've already answered this for you with scripture to back it up. I can not help your misinterpretation of the phrase "the law" that Paul uses which refers to the Mosaic law of dead works.

Before I give you the answer--I'll repeat myself with the word of God to back me up--"faith without works is dead being alone". Without faith--there is no salvation-- and dead faith can not justify you or anyone. What is your conclusion then when not only Jesus and the NT teach us that "faith alone is dead"--it can not justify you or anyone if it's dead. So God is telling that *YES*--in order to be saved--your faith must be alive and the only way it can live is through the good works that we are commanded by the Lord to do--as I've already posted all of those scriptures to back that up. Good works are what we do in response to our calling in Christ--again and again--you are told that without these--your faith is dead. Dead means--DEAD.

"Saving faith"--must have works. Those unable to physically do anything--God has already taken them into account. We who are not disabled, are expected to help those in need. Whom God calls--He enables. No one called is not enabled in someway to do the good work. Even someone who can't physically move, hear or speak are still able to contribute to the kingdom of heaven in some way--no matter how large or small--God sees.


2 Thes. 1:
11Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power: 12That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Matthew 5:16

Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Maybe you missed this part: Please answer with a yes or no.

Yes or no?

[lilymc]

The work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. ” Amen!

Amen, Amen Amen. THANK YOU.

[Terry1]

Maybe you missed this part: Please answer with a yes or no.

Yes or no?

Yes--faith must have works or it's dead. Now if you've created a new Gospel that says something different, I'd like to see your creative writing skills as well as your video making skills as well.

[lilymc]

Kevin and Lily create threads like these and then place the very people they're disagreeing with on ignore or just run away? A babe on the milk is as a babe does I guess. Then it's safe to say that there will be no more rebuttals?

I just got finished with a webinar that lasted far longer than the hour it was supposed to. I didn't "run away" and I don't have you on ignore.

You, however, ignored my request for you to answer my question with a yes or no.

You also ignored my post that said please comment on the video, that was the purpose of this thread, not turning it into another high schoolish drama.

Thanks.

[lilymc]

Yes--faith must have works or it's dead. Now if you've created a new Gospel that says something different, I'd like to see your creative writing skills as well as your video making skills as well.

The question wasn't "Is faith without works dead?" The question was, "Do you believe works are are required to get saved?"

If your answer is yes to that, then thank you. You are the type of person the video is for. (Someone earlier claimed that nobody has stated that works are necessary for salvation. But now you are on the record.)