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Thread: 10 Reasons Why Salvation By Works Does Not Work

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    Mostly I'm answering your questions why Orthodox and Catholics avoid your threads. Your reading comprehension--- Ah, forget about it. Why did I even bother LOL
    its not my thread- it is lily's. Lily made the video, not me- get over it.
    Ephesians 2:8-9-

    8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin007 View Post
    its not my thread- it is lily's. Lily made the video, not me- get over it.
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    Religion should never be put above God/truth. If it does, then religion or a brick and mortar church becomes one's God.



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  5. #33
    so religion should be put above God?
    Ephesians 2:8-9-

    8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin007 View Post
    so religion should be put above God?
    LOL.

  7. #35
    Let me re-explain the thread, since you seem a bit confused.

    Early in the thread you mentioned EO's won't like it and asked about our where abouts.

    Lily answered and implied that EOs put religion above God.

    I said that was false. That I didn't put religion above God and tried to explain that false accusations about what others believe leads to the turbulent threads that accomplish nothing and why no one listens to one another.

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin007 View Post
    good works do not save. Do you understand? Jesus saves- only Jesus. Period.
    The Bible states that you will know Christians by their fruit, so anyone who doesn't have any good works in their life at all doesn't truly believe in Jesus. This isn't a hard concept to understand. Good works are not a prerequisite to be saved. Someone can be saved on their death bed without doing any good works at all. But someone who has had an authentic conversion to Christ will demonstrate that belief through a changed life and good works.

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    If the video is anything like the thread, I see no reason to spend 15 minutes listening to someone falsely telling me that I trust my works and church over God.
    I just want to give you a chance to clarify your beliefs for everyone. Do you believe that good works are a prerequisite for salvation? In other words, if an unsaved person is on their death bed and about to die, is it impossible for that person to be saved since they haven't done any good works?

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    The Bible states that you will know Christians by their fruit, so anyone who doesn't have any good works in their life at all doesn't truly believe in Jesus. This isn't a hard concept to understand. Good works are not a prerequisite to be saved. Someone can be saved on their death bed without doing any good works at all. But someone who has had an authentic conversion to Christ will demonstrate that belief through a changed life and good works.
    and they are not to stay saved either...because we could not in a billion years do enough good works to stay saved.
    Ephesians 2:8-9-

    8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    The Bible states that you will know Christians by their fruit, so anyone who doesn't have any good works in their life at all doesn't truly believe in Jesus. This isn't a hard concept to understand. Good works are not a prerequisite to be saved. Someone can be saved on their death bed without doing any good works at all. But someone who has had an authentic conversion to Christ will demonstrate that belief through a changed life and good works.
    other men will know them, not God.
    Ephesians 2:8-9-

    8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    I just want to give you a chance to clarify your beliefs for everyone. Do you believe that good works are a prerequisite for salvation? In other words, if an unsaved person is on their death bed and about to die, is it impossible for that person to be saved since they haven't done any good works?
    It's a rare sect that does not believe that the Good Thief did not see Jesus in Heaven that day.



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin007 View Post
    and they are not to stay saved either...because we could not in a billion years do enough good works to stay saved.
    Again, if someone has had a true conversion to Christ they will produce good works because of the gratitude that they have towards Christ for saving them. That's what the Bible teaches.

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    It's a rare sect that does not believe that the Good Thief did not see Jesus in Heaven that day.
    Ok, then this entire thread is pretty much a straw man argument. Correct? I've never seen anyone argue on this forum that good works are a prerequisite for being saved. Maybe there is, but I've never seen anyone make that argument.
    Last edited by Brett85; 10-20-2014 at 08:33 PM.

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    I've never seen anyone argue on this forum that good works are a prerequisite for being saved.
    I hope you're right about that. But it seems unlikely.

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    Ok, then this entire thread is pretty much a straw man argument. Correct? I've never seen anyone argue on this forum that good works are a prerequisite for being saved. Maybe there is, but I've never seen anyone make that argument.
    It really comes down to the debate of monergism and synergism. I will say one thing for Sola/rond/aqua, he had his isms down.

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    Again, if someone has had a true conversion to Christ they will produce good works because of the gratitude that they have towards Christ for saving them. That's what the Bible teaches.
    which works save us? which keep us saved? how many must we do?
    Ephesians 2:8-9-

    8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    It really comes down to the debate of monergism and synergism. I will say one thing for Sola/rond/aqua, he had his isms down.
    That seems like a different debate. My question is, has anyone on this forum ever claimed that good works are a prerequisite for salvation? Does anyone on this forum believe that for example it would've been impossible for Adolf Hitler to be saved if he had accepted Christ on his death bed? Would it have been impossible for Hitler to have been saved because of all the awful things he did and because he hadn't done any good works?

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    It really comes down to the debate of monergism and synergism.
    I don't think that's true. You can be a monergist and believe that works are a prerequisite for salvation, and you can be a monergist who believes that they aren't, and you can be a synergist who believes that they are, and you can be a synergist who believes that they aren't.

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin007 View Post
    which works save us? which keep us saved? how many must we do?
    You do what the Holy Spirit tells you to do and what the Bible commands us to do. Jesus commanded us to do good works. Again, this isn't controversial. I don't know of any church that teaches that good works aren't a fruit of salvation.



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    I don't think that's true. You can be a monergist and believe that works are a prerequisite for salvation, and you can be a monergist who believes that they aren't, and you can be a synergist who believes that they are, and you can be a synergist who believes that they aren't.
    Maybe so. That thought just struck me and I typed it.

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    You do what the Holy Spirit tells you to do and what the Bible commands us to do. Jesus commanded us to do good works. Again, this isn't controversial. I don't know of any church that teaches that good works aren't a fruit of salvation.
    you didn't answer my question....
    Ephesians 2:8-9-

    8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin007 View Post
    you didn't answer my question....
    I did answer your question. It's not about doing certain works or doing a certain number of works. It's about listening to the Holy Spirit after you become a Christian and doing what the Holy Spirit convicts you to do. That may be different for each person.

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    I'm commenting on your typical comments in this thread where you mischaracterize my faith in God, as usual. If the video is anything like the thread, I see no reason to spend 15 minutes listening to someone falsely telling me that I trust my works and church over God.
    Have you watched it yet?

    I didn't mention any particular church or religion in the video, it's just a list of 10 reasons why Salvation by works does not work and is not the true Gospel.

    I hope you watch it, and comment on what was said in the video, as opposed to comments on this thread. And btw, when I said religion should never be put above God, I say that as a general statement that applies to everyone, of every religion and denomination. I hope we all agree on that, at least.
    “I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.”

    ― Henry David Thoreau

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    I did answer your question. It's not about doing certain works or doing a certain number of works. It's about listening to the Holy Spirit after you become a Christian and doing what the Holy Spirit convicts you to do. That may be different for each person.
    of course. But if you fail to do what the Spirit tells you doesn't mean you are losing your salvation. Thats just called living in the flesh, or sinning etc.. We should try, yes- but we fail everyday.
    Ephesians 2:8-9-

    8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    Have you watched it yet?

    I didn't mention any particular church or religion in the video, it's just a list of 10 reasons why Salvation by works does not work and is not the true Gospel.

    I hope you watch it, and comment on what was said in the video, as opposed to comments on this thread. And btw, when I said religion should never be put above God, I say that as a general statement that applies to everyone, of every religion and denomination. I hope we all agree on that, at least.
    anything Kevin likes, he won't watch
    Ephesians 2:8-9-

    8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

  29. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    You do what the Holy Spirit tells you to do and what the Bible commands us to do. Jesus commanded us to do good works. Again, this isn't controversial. I don't know of any church that teaches that good works aren't a fruit of salvation.
    TC, I hear what you've been saying on this thread.... And I said pretty much the same thing in the video. I said that the good works will come, as a fruit of being born again and having a new nature. I think the thing that Kevin has been focusing on is that works don't save us.

    Did you get a chance to watch it yet?
    “I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.”

    ― Henry David Thoreau

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    Have you watched it yet?

    I didn't mention any particular church or religion in the video, it's just a list of 10 reasons why Salvation by works does not work and is not the true Gospel.
    Since you put it so nicely, I definitely will watch it.
    I hope you watch it, and comment on what was said in the video, as opposed to comments on this thread. And btw, when I said religion should never be put above God, I say that as a general statement that applies to everyone, of every religion and denomination. I hope we all agree on that, at least.
    We do.



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  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin007 View Post
    anything Kevin likes, he won't watch
    sigh...

  33. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin007 View Post
    of course. But if you fail to do what the Spirit tells you doesn't mean you are losing your salvation. Thats just called living in the flesh, or sinning etc.. We should try, yes- but we fail everyday.
    Of course everyone sins and doesn't always do what the Holy Spirit tells them to do. But it's those who completely ignore the Holy Spirit and don't confess and feel bad about their sin who are in trouble spiritually. Whether such a person actually loses their salvation or was never truly saved to begin with, I can't really say for sure. But you can't be a Christian if you just use your salvation as a license to sin, if you don't even make a legitimate attempt not to sin.

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    TC, I hear what you've been saying on this thread.... And I said pretty much the same thing in the video. I said that the good works will come, as a fruit of being born again and having a new nature. I think the thing that Kevin has been focusing on is that works don't save us.

    Did you get a chance to watch it yet?
    Yeah, I watched it. It was well done, and I didn't really disagree with much of what you said. But I haven't personally seen anyone on this forum argue that good works are a prerequisite for salvation, and I thought you made the comment at the beginning of the video that some people on this forum argue that good works are a prerequisite for salvation, that we're saved by our works. I personally haven't seen anyone on this forum argue in favor of that. Maybe I just missed it.

  35. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    Yeah, I watched it. It was well done, and I didn't really disagree with much of what you said. But I haven't personally seen anyone on this forum argue that good works are a prerequisite for salvation, and I thought you made the comment at the beginning of the video that some people on this forum argue that good works are a prerequisite for salvation, that we're saved by our works. I personally haven't seen anyone on this forum argue in favor of that. Maybe I just missed it.
    I haven't seen it either.

    This is what tends to happen
    Person 1: A is true.
    Person 2: A is true. A implies B. Therefore, A and B.
    Person 1: Stop talking about B! It's A! Only A!
    Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law. -Douglas Hofstadter

    Life, Liberty, Logic

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