10 Reasons Why Salvation By Works Does Not Work

[lilymc]

Yes, I know that the salvation debates that went on for a few weeks have died down.... in fact, they appear to be completely over. But those debates inspired me to make this video, and I just finished it last night, so....I'll share it, even though it's a bit late.




If you guys are all debated out on this topic, I totally understand. No worries! (I'm a bit over it too.) But I do hope you at least watch it.

Thanks!!!

[Original_Intent]

Very nice, thanks for posting!

[lilymc]

Very nice, thanks for posting!

Thanks for watching and the kind words!

[Miss Annie]

Great job Lily! Beautifully done!

[navy-vet]

Thank you Lily that was exceptional.

[Kevin007]

the EO crowd ain't gonna like it

[lilymc]

Great job Lily! Beautifully done!

Thank you Annie!

Thank you Lily that was exceptional.

Thanks so much! I appreciate the encouraging words.

the EO crowd ain't gonna like it

Well...that's to be expected. But I hope they at least think about these things. Religion should never be put above God/truth. If it does, then religion or a brick and mortar church becomes one's God.

[Kevin007]

great vid but I wonder where the EO crowd went to?

[Brett85]

This is a tricky issue. I haven't watched the video yet. I'll try to watch it sometime tomorrow. Good works aren't a prerequisite for salvation, but at the same time someone can't truly be saved if they don't have any good works to show for their claim of faith. Faith comes first and then good works, but good works must follow faith in order for one's claim of faith to be authentic.

[Kevin007]

This is a tricky issue. I haven't watched the video yet. I'll try to watch it sometime tomorrow. Good works aren't a prerequisite for salvation, but at the same time someone can't truly be saved if they don't have any good works to show for their claim of faith. Faith comes first and then good works, but good works must follow faith in order for one's claim of faith to be authentic.

not tricky at all.What is tricky about God's free gift of salvation? What is tricky about grace. Man makes it "tricky", because he wants to have a say in getting saved- it is all of God. Watch the vid.

[Brett85]

not tricky at all.What is tricky about God's free gift of salvation? What is tricky about grace. Man makes it "tricky", because he wants to have a say in getting saved- it is all of God. Watch the vid.

It's tricky because there are verses that both sides use for their point of view. It's like a puzzle that you have to piece together and make it all fit. I've done that and have come to a place where I believe the pieces of the puzzle fit. The Bible talks a lot about faith. The Bible also talks a lot about works. Our works are the evidence of our faith. If we don't have any good works to show for our claim of faith, then our faith isn't authentic but is mere lip service to God.

[Kevin007]

It's tricky because there are verses that both sides use for their point of view. It's like a puzzle that you have to piece together and make it all fit. I've done that and have come to a place where I believe the pieces of the puzzle fit. The Bible talks a lot about faith. The Bible also talks a lot about works. Our works are the evidence of our faith. If we don't have any good works to show for our claim of faith, then our faith isn't authentic but is mere lip service to God.

Works don't save you . Jesus does. Do you agree with this? All our righteousness is like filthy rags.

[Brett85]

Works don't save you . Jesus does. Do you agree with this? All our righteousness is like filthy rags.

Jesus saves us, but someone who truly believes in Jesus will produce good works. The Bible says that you will know them by their fruits.

[Brett85]

If someone comes over to your house and helps you put shingles on your roof, you aren't going to repay that person by going over and egging their house. In the same way, someone who truly has gratitude for what Jesus did for them on the cross isn't going to spit in Jesus' face. They are going to produce fruit-good works-because of the gratitude that they have towards Jesus because of what he did for them on the cross.

[Kevin007]

Jesus saves us, but someone who truly believes in Jesus will produce good works. The Bible says that you will know them by their fruits.

exactly. But there is no but.

[Brett85]

exactly. But there is no but.

There is. The Bible says over and over again that a true believer in Christ will produce fruit, will produce good works.

Matthew 7: 16-20

You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

[Kevin007]

There is. The Bible says over and over again that a true believer in Christ will produce fruit, will produce good works.

Matthew 7: 16-20

You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

the thief on the Cross- he just believed. Good works and salvation do not mix. One is grace, the other works (mans effort). If good works don't save you, they can't keep you saved after.

[Kevin007]

All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away. (Is 64:6)

[Brett85]

the thief on the Cross- he just believed. Good works and salvation do not mix. One is grace, the other works (mans effort). If good works don't save you, they can't keep you saved after.

I pretty clearly said that good works aren't a prerequisite for salvation, so the thief on the cross was saved without doing any good works. My statement, and what the Bible teaches, is that good works come after salvation. Good works and a changed life are evidence that someone is truly saved.

[Kevin007]

Unbeliever's do good works all the time.

[Brett85]

Unbeliever's do good works all the time.

Yes, but they're motivated to do good works for different reasons than Christians are. Christians should be motivated to do good works in order to serve Jesus Christ who died for us, and because the Bible commands us to do good works.

[jmdrake]

the thief on the Cross- he just believed. Good works and salvation do not mix. One is grace, the other works (mans effort). If good works don't save you, they can't keep you saved after.

The thief on the cross did more than just believe. He openly confessed his belief, confessed his sin and rebuked his fellow thief for insulting Jesus. Notice that at one time both thieves were insulting Jesus. Mark 15 states that both thieves insulted Jesus. Luke 23 states that one thief insulted and the other rebuked the insulting thief. The most obvious reconciliation of the two accounts is that one thief changed his mind. Regardless, the penitent thief did do something as a result of his faith. Now you can argue that his work was a result of his salvation as opposed to a prerequisite to it, but it's inaccurate to argue that all he did was believe.

[moostraks]

The thief on the cross did more than just believe. He openly confessed his belief, confessed his sin and rebuked his fellow thief for insulting Jesus. Notice that at one time both thieves were insulting Jesus. Mark 15 states that both thieves insulted Jesus. Luke 23 states that one thief insulted and the other rebuked the insulting thief. The most obvious reconciliation of the two accounts is that one thief changed his mind. Regardless, the penitent thief did do something as a result of his faith. Now you can argue that his work was a result of his salvation as opposed to a prerequisite to it, but it's inaccurate to argue that all he did was believe.

Indeed. Was going to point that out as well (re: thief) yesterday, then thought why bother since all that happens is another argument. This thread quickly descended into just another bigoted thread by which certain folks elevate themselves by mocking other's sincerely held beliefs.

[Crashland]

Unbeliever's do good works all the time.

Yes, but they're motivated to do good works for different reasons than Christians are. Christians should be motivated to do good works in order to serve Jesus Christ who died for us, and because the Bible commands us to do good works.

But just earlier you said this:

Good works and a changed life are evidence that someone is truly saved.

So then how is that evidence, if unbelievers do it too? People's motivation is the only way to differentiate between the two? So in reality, you are saying that people's motivations are evidence of being saved, not their works. Problem being it can be difficult to tell what someone's motivation is. And, this goes against all the Bible verses that *do* say that works are evidence of faith.

[Kevin007]

good works do not save. Do you understand? Jesus saves- only Jesus. Period.

[RJB]

Well...that's to be expected. But I hope they at least think about these things. Religion should never be put above God/truth. If it does, then religion or a brick and mortar church becomes one's God.

If the video is: "10 reasons why lilymc falsely believes that Orthodox Christians place a church and their own works above God," I see no reason to watch it.

When you were a Catholic, (I believe you said you once were) if you really believed that that was the message, it's probably better that you left. I can assure you when I was a Catholic and now an Orthodox, that I never believed in my works nor religion was above God. We live a certain way because Jesus preached to love God with our whole heart mind and soul and to love our neighbor as ourselves. And yes our MANY misdeeds are forgiven because of the salvation brought to us by Jesus.

And yes, I'm aware that false accusations get thrown in your direction as well.

[Kevin007]

If the video is: "10 reasons why lilymc falsely believes that Orthodox Christians place a church and their own works above God," I see no reason to watch it.

When you were a Catholic, (I believe you said you once were) if you really believed that that was the message, it's probably better that you left. I can assure you when I was a Catholic and now an Orthodox, that I never believed in my works nor religion was above God. We live a certain way because Jesus preached to love God with our whole heart mind and soul and to love our neighbor as ourselves. And yes our MANY misdeeds are forgiven because of the salvation brought to us by Jesus.

And yes, I'm aware that false accusations get thrown in your direction as well.

commenting on the video without watching it- nice. No- its a video showing that works do not save us- with bible proof.

[RJB]

commenting on the video without watching it- nice. No- its a video showing that works do not save us- with bible proof.

I'm commenting on your typical comments in this thread where you mischaracterize my faith in God, as usual. If the video is anything like the thread, I see no reason to spend 15 minutes listening to someone falsely telling me that I trust my works and church over God.

[Kevin007]

I'm commenting on your typical comments in this thread where you mischaracterize my faith in God, as usual. If the video is anything like the thread, I see no reason to spend 15 minutes listening to someone falsely telling me that I trust my works and church over God.

Its not about Church at all, she doesn't even mention it imo. So you agree then, that your works will save you?

[RJB]

Its not about Church at all, she doesn't even mention it imo. So you agree then, that your works will save you?

Mostly I'm answering your questions why Orthodox and Catholics avoid your threads. Your reading comprehension--- Ah, forget about it. Why did I even bother LOL