FIFYOriginally Posted by heavenlyboy34
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FIFY
Out of every one hundred men they send us, ten should not even be here. Eighty will do nothing but serve as targets for the enemy. Nine are real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, upon them depends our success in battle. But one, ah the one, he is a real warrior, and he will bring the others back from battle alive.
Duty is the most sublime word in the English language. Do your duty in all things. You can not do more than your duty. You should never wish to do less than your duty.
tod, I don't doubt that the NSA is stupid enough to not realize what you are doing (and that's a good thing) but I am not. See the exchange below.
TC said that those who advocate killing police are just as bad as the cops themselves (or something to that effect.) You replied:
Now, were we to take this post alone, we could perhaps say you were talking about certain cops or certain types of cops. But I wrote this:I had to jump on this too...
Are you $#@!ing serious? Kops are the foot soldiers in the war(s) waged on the citizenry.
Where you raised to lick the boots of your oppressor?
Shameful!
See how explicitly clear I made this? Your reply:
So, obviously you don't lick the boots of your oppressor. So either you do in fact support cop-killing "whenever and wherever it occurs" or you didn't actually read my post. Which one is it?
Either way, I am not "slandering" you.
Osan, in reply to my same post above, says:
Then Osan said this:
Both osan and tod evans had given me reason to believe that that was what they were advocating. i don't have a problem with holding specific cops accountable for the actions they've committed, whatever that may mean for you. But I think the "holding them accountable" should be proportionate to what they did, if at all possible. If its just money and time, I would say err on the side of letting it alone rather than taking a life, if those are your options. A cop strip searches your wife in the street? Yeah, I could see violent reaction there...
When I was criticized for making a completely non controversial statement that cops killing and abusing civilians and civilians murdering cops are equally wrong, it was pretty clear to me what those who replied to my comment were saying. That was confirmed the longer the thread went on. It's a little late to back away from that now.
What you "believe" is irrelevant, what you type isn't.
Your interpretation of what I type is just that, your interpretation....
You and I have been down this road before where you voice your interpretation and then attribute it to me as my words.
This is slander.
It's irresponsible, manipulative and childish.
Geewiz, now why could this be...?The same people who we used to count on for support, the good, law abiding general public, are now reluctant to trust us.
Last edited by DFF; 10-19-2014 at 08:36 AM.
What specifically are you trying to attribute to osan and myself?
"That" is not descriptive enough for a person making accusations that could possibly hold the weight of investigation or even indictment.
I think those particular abusive cops are worse. Its one thing for civilians to do awful things. Its another thing for a cop to do them with all the power of the US Government behind them. So no, its not non-controversial.
This is correct. Its insane that tod is accusing me of slandering him when what he said is so obvious in this case. I think he may be ashamed of it and doesn't want to admit he was wrong.
it was pretty clear to me what those who replied to my comment were saying. That was confirmed the longer the thread went on. It's a little late to back away from that now.
tod, you really need to learn to read. All the information is quoted in post #92. Either you are a liar or you are stupid. Which is it?
Here's quotes for you,in context, practice your own advice.
Kops hiding........
Good!I had to jump on this too...
Are you $#@!ing serious? Kops are the foot soldiers in the war(s) waged on the citizenry.
Where you raised to lick the boots of your oppressor?
Shameful![edit]
I forgot one more unanswered question from earlier;
Last edited by tod evans; 10-19-2014 at 11:04 AM.
You and osan have both implied that it is justified to kill any cop at any time for any reason. Both of you implied it when you both disagreed with me when I said there is some space between licking the boots of your oppressor and supporting cop-killing whenever and wherever it occurs.
tod, you're better than this. Come on. I don't care what position you take on this issue, but I do care that you are lying about that which is in plain sight for us all to see.
Look FF, I'm sick and tired of you calling me a liar, trying to attribute your interpretation of my words as what I've actually said, and then trying to give some kind of silly ultimatums with ridiculous questions phrased in such a way that absolves you of actual comprehension.
Not acknowledging loaded questions is a far cry from either lying or advocating murder.
I have asked you several relevant and pertinent questions that you have conveniently sidestepped and tried to obfuscate with your little tantrums, would you care to address them? (They're the sentence that precedes a question mark)
If you're able to draw degrees of wrong from bombing a child in his crib then that's a moral failing on your part, I'll not entertain your loaded question on the matter further.
Go back in this thread and read the posts that lead up to this quote;Here's the question I asked TC that you felt compelled to address;when I said there is some space between licking the boots of your oppressor and supporting cop-killing
And here is the offensive post that you've been defending;
If you actually support bombing children in their crib or in any way condemn those who seek actual justice outside of their court system then yes I view you as a bootlicker. And my statement of "Not in my world" rings true.
I see a difference between using vigilante justice on those particular cops, and on all cops. I would condemn the latter but not the former.
Depraved indifference
How exactly does one do that Deborah? I want a copy too....
So, your position as well as a few others in here, is that society has no need of law enforcement? The thugs will simply lay down their weapons and transform into honest, gentle, compassionate human beings who will only ask for a hug now and then to maintain their benevolence? If, and when, the police are disbanded?
You don't believe that intent matters? I mean, there's no difference between an accident and a willful action?
I personally feel that there is a significant difference in wanton disregard and gross negligence than a reasonable mistake during a reasonable execution of an act in the context in play here. As for the killing of a child, indirectly, in an enemy camp, to save the lives of other innocent children...that's a call I am glad I never had to make and hope I never do, but I'm reluctant to pass judgement on another for making a call like that, when I don't have all of the facts.
I believe that acting under "color of authority" in the commission of a crime is far more grievous than the same crime being perpetrated by a no-authoritarian. And the penalty should be at least twice as severe.
Don't you agree?
I think there is. I've been arguing such throughout this thread.
My family and friends think I'm nuts to. I don't care. I just care about truth
On a more serious note, though, would you at least make a distinction between saying that vigilante justice should be used against THE PARTICULAR COPS who engage in atrocities like grenading children in their beds, and saying that vigilante justice should be used against "cops" indiscriminately?
If somebody just killed a random cop who was patrolling in his squad car and as far as we knew hadn't really done anything to anyone other than hand out traffic tickets perhaps, I would vote to convict the killer (assuming no reasonable doubt and all that.) If somebody killed the specific cop who grenaded those children, I would vote to acquit. No, I'm not necessarily saying it would be "right", and I honestly have a hard time knowing with certainty how to assess that type of a thing from a Christian paradigm (I have a number of conflicting values there.) But I certainly wouldn't convict them of murder in that case. And really, that doesn't seem that "extreme" to me. Of course, my perspective of what qualifies as such is somewhat biased
TC, would you assert that it is NEVER justified to use violence against a cop? Or is it possible for a cop to do something so grievous that a violent response could be justified?
I see a difference, but I don't promote or condone either. It's possible that if a police officer harmed me by intentionally killing or seriously harming someone I was close to, I might get so mad that I would possibly commit an act of violence against the police officer. But I still wouldn't claim that it was morally right. I wouldn't condone it and promote it as something other people should do.
Not that it really matters, but any such comments on this forum would already be noted by at least four active accounts. I don't know if one person represents all four accounts, but all of these accounts login daily to RPF. My observation is that the animosity is so great that the person would be itching to report someone.
It's a grand misnomer that any government agency has the wherewithal to efficiently monitor such comments. Contrary to popular perception, their technology/work is too inept, diffuse, unresourceful, and frankly, just lazy. Informants are paid in larger operations. Smaller matters, such as these, generally rely on tips from tattlers.
If it matters to you.
Last edited by NorthCarolinaLiberty; 10-19-2014 at 07:30 PM.
Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members
I mean, if a cop actually came into your house and started shooting at you, then it would be an act of self defense to shoot back and would be morally right. But that's extremely unlikely to happen. Even the worse police abuses generally don't involve cops just shooting indiscriminately at someone in their house for no reason.
Vigilante justice is not justice and can not be condoned in a free society.I think there is. I've been arguing such throughout this thread.
My family and friends think I'm nuts to. I don't care. I just care about truth
On a more serious note, though, would you at least make a distinction between saying that vigilante justice should be used against THE PARTICULAR COPS who engage in atrocities like grenading children in their beds, and saying that vigilante justice should be used against "cops" indiscriminately?
If somebody just killed a random cop who was patrolling in his squad car and as far as we knew hadn't really done anything to anyone other than hand out traffic tickets perhaps, I would vote to convict the killer (assuming no reasonable doubt and all that.) If somebody killed the specific cop who grenaded those children, I would vote to acquit. No, I'm not necessarily saying it would be "right", and I honestly have a hard time knowing with certainty how to assess that type of a thing from a Christian paradigm (I have a number of conflicting values there.) But I certainly wouldn't convict them of murder in that case. And really, that doesn't seem that "extreme" to me. Of course, my perspective of what qualifies as such is somewhat biased
I disagree with the example of the child that was injured by the grenade, and believe I know what you are saying, and do agree with much of it in principle.
The ironic thing about all of this is that I would probably still be considered "anti cop" by most people. I posted all kinds of articles during the Ferguson riots criticizing the police response and advocating demilitarizing the police. But if you don't take it to the most extreme level possible, then I guess you're "pro cop" here.
Last edited by Brett85; 10-19-2014 at 07:32 PM.
I, for one, certainly don't think that disbanding the police would turn them into "honest, gentle, compassionate human beings who will only as for a hug now and then to maintain their benevolence."So, your position as well as a few others in here, is that society has no need of law enforcement? The thugs will simply lay down their weapons and transform into honest, gentle, compassionate human beings who will only ask for a hug now and then to maintain their benevolence? If, and when, the police are disbanded?
Oh, wait ... I just realized that you were probably referring to "the thugs" and "the police" as if they were two separate groups ...
Sorry, my mistake ... nevermind ...
The Bastiat Collection · FREE PDF · FREE EPUB · PAPER Frédéric Bastiat (1801-1850)
- "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law."
-- The Law (p. 54)- "Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
-- Government (p. 99)- "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
-- Economic Sophisms - Second Series (p. 312)- "There are two principles that can never be reconciled - Liberty and Constraint."
-- Harmonies of Political Economy - Book One (p. 447)· tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito ·
If a child is injured as a result of being indirectly assaulted by a cop who is legally executing his duty after having exercised prudent judgement and taken appropriate measures to ensure bystander safety. Then any injury to that child should be considered accidental or the fault of the child's custodian.
To launch a physical assault on that cop, under such circumstances is a grievous and immoral criminal act and shouldn't be permitted in a free, civilized society.
Ken Rex McElroy just gave you +rep........from the grave.
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