23 Bible Verses about "The Watchers"

[Ronin Truth]

I'd say it's always important to straighten out what is scripture and what is not, and show the basis for calling something scripture is not arbitrary or mob-rule based, before going into "on topic' views about supernatural subjects. I think that Enoch's declarations about the watchers are not as legitimate as the scriptural references to them (in your original post).

I'd also say the watchers' direct activity, and their interbreedings with humans, can explain all the anomalous cases and legends through history from amazing ancient artifacts, giants, legends of gods and demigods, to witches and sorcerers, shape-shifting animals and other monsters, and so on. God has chosen to keep details on most of these supernatural interactions far away from us, as they mostly do not glorify God---which may account for why so many ancient documents are lost to us. Apparently, the less we definitely know about it at this stage of our history, the better.

Thanks, interesting point of view on the Bible. I'm afraid I need to disagree about that.

I am less quick to attribute to God, behaviors that can more easily and simply be attributed to and accounted for by humans. However, on that point to each their own. Occam's razor, for me, proves to be a valuable filtering tool in these sort of matters.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan

[Peace&Freedom]

Hmm,,
The Book(s) of Enoch was considered scripture at one time. Jude quoted from it,, referring to it as prophetic.
Who decided is wasn't? Could they have been mistaken?

And Enoch stated that it was not written for his present day,, but to a distant future. (when it would be important)

A stray early church father or two thought it might be scripture, the first century apostles did not. Enoch was an ORAL book, not written down in permanent form until sometime just prior to the AD era (if even that can be pinned down); and it's almost certain it was not written by the Enoch of the Bible. There are several verses in the OT and NT that cite extrabiblical sources as reliable historical texts, but this does not mean they are God-inspired or infallible texts.

Although called prophetic by Jude, "this does not mean the Book of Enoch is inspired by God and should be in the Bible. Jude’s quote is not the only quote in the Bible from a non-biblical source. The Apostle Paul quotes Epimenides in Titus 1:12 but that does not mean we should give any additional authority to Epimenides’ writings. The same is true with Jude, verses 14-15. Jude quoting from the book of Enoch does not indicate the entire Book of Enoch is inspired, or even true. All it means is that particular verse is true."
Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/book-of-...#ixzz3GExKHqfh

See also, on the doctrinal errors and contradictions of Enoch compared to canon scripture:
http://christianity.stackexchange.co...d-as-canonical

Finally, the warning that we are in a war between "principalities and powers" extends to the controversies over canon. Satan has wanted to corrupt the biblical canon by promoting non-God inspired or error-filled texts, to muddy the waters so there would be no reliable referent as to God's word. The most serious attempt was trying to get the Roman church to hijack the faith in the 4th century, mix NT teachings up with many pagan traditions, and convert the simple doctrines of salvation by faith alone, the bible alone as sufficient authority, and direct access to Christ, with a complicated works, church tradition, and intercession system.

In short, to turn God's unique revelation into another man-based religion. God fought back by insuring it would be the apostles and their circle who determined the canon, early in the first centuries, to keep the other side from contaminating it (and this allowed the Reformation to eventually restore mass understanding of the true core of the faith). We should be mindful the demonic attempt to obscure the true Word of God through 'canon questioning' or de-emphasis is ongoing, to this day.

[moostraks]

A stray early church father or two thought it might be scripture, the first century apostles did not. Enoch was an ORAL book, not written down in permanent form until sometime just prior to the AD era (if even that can be pinned down); and it's almost certain it was not written by the Enoch of the Bible. There are several verses in the OT and NT that cite extrabiblical sources as reliable historical texts, but this does not mean they are God-inspired or infallible texts...

Whilst this book does not form part of the canon of Holy Scripture for the larger Christian Churches, various groups, including the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, regard parts or all of 1 Enoch to be inspired Scripture. The currently known texts of this work are usually dated to Maccabean times (ca. 160s BC).

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Book_of_Enoch

Found this for those who might be interested...

[pcosmar]

A stray early church father or two thought it might be scripture,

It was also about these men that Enoch, in the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied, saying, "Behold, the Lord came with many thousands of His holy ones, to execute judgment upon all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their ungodly deeds which they have done in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.

not sure I would classify Jude as a stray,

Jude (alternatively Judas or Judah) was one of the four brothers of Jesus (Mark 6:3 and Matthew 13:55) according to the New Testament. He is traditionally identified as the author of the Epistle of Jude, a short epistle which is reckoned among the seven general epistles of the New Testament - placed after Paul's epistles and before the Book of Revelation - and considered canonical by Christians

but I do question the Counsel of Laodicea. in total

[Ronin Truth]

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Book_of_Enoch

Found this for those who might be interested...

I'm interested. Thanks!

[Peace&Freedom]

not sure I would classify Jude as a stray,

Nor would I. Jude affirmed the truth of the quote from Enoch, but that is not the same thing as calling all of Enoch scripture. I class Jude as one of the primary witnesses who with the apostles created the written NT canon. The "church fathers" are the figures from the second century onward, who continued building the church after the apostolic era (of still living apostles and principal witnesses) had passed.

[Ronin Truth]

What is the watcher in the Bible?

Are "Watchers" a special class of angel?


Thank you for your question.

The word translated watcher(s) occurs just 3 times in the Aramaic section of Daniel.

Daniel 4:13
I saw in the visions of my head upon my bed, and, behold, a watcher and (or even) an holy one came down from heaven;

Daniel 4:17
This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.

Daniel 4:23
And whereas the king saw a watcher and (or even) an holy one coming down from heaven, and saying, Hew the tree down, and destroy it; yet leave the stump of the roots thereof in the earth, even with a band of iron and brass, in the tender grass of the field; and let it be wet with the dew of heaven, and let his portion be with the beasts of the field, till seven times pass over him;

Using Strong’s Concordance.

Watcher 05894 (Aramaic) eer; from a root corresponding to 05782 (to rouse oneself, awake, awaken). Translated in the AV-watcher 3 times.

Meaning: waking, watchful, wakeful one, watcher.It is reasonable to conclude from the available information that ‘watcher’ refers to an angel.We understand from scripture that everything God does is done by the hand of angels.Angels watch over and preserve the righteous.

Psalms 34:7
The angel of the LORD encampeth round about them that fear him, and delivereth them.

Acts 12:11
And when Peter was come to himself, he said, Now I know of a surety, that the Lord hath sent his angel, and hath delivered me out of the hand of Herod, and from all the expectation of the people of the Jews.

Hebrews 1:14
Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?Angels are the instruments of punishment when required.

2 Samuel 24:16
And when the angel stretched out his hand upon Jerusalem to destroy it, the LORD repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed the people, It is enough: stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD was by the threshingplace of Araunah the Jebusite.

2 Kings 19:35
And it came to pass that night, that the angel of the LORD went out, and smote in the camp of the Assyrians an hundred fourscore and five thousand: and when they arose early in the morning, behold, they were all dead corpses.

Acts 12:23
And immediately the angel of the Lord smote him, because he gave not God the glory: and he was eaten of worms, and gave up the ghost.God is everywhere present by his spirit. He is aware of everything that happens before it happens.We do not understand the relationship between the angels of God and the spirit of God.The point that God is making through the angel with Nebuchadnezzar is clearly stated.

Daniel 4:17
...to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.This is still not generally understood in the world.To this day ‘Christians’ are involved in politics.

What part of Daniel 4:17 do ‘Christians’ not understand?A small insight into angelic influence behind the political scenes is given in Daniel 10.

Daniel 10:13
But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.20 Then said he, Knowest thou wherefore I come unto thee? and now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I am gone forth, lo, the prince of Grecia shall come.Here we see the angels working with the freewill of the rulers of Persia and Greece to bring about the demise of the Persian empire and the rise of the Greek empire.Again we don’t know how angels work in the lives of men but it is clear that they do.Angels are closely connected with our salvation.

Luke 15:10
Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.

Luke 12:8
Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God:The promise of God is that those who obey the gospel will be made equal to the angels.

Luke 20:35
But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

I hope this helps.

Glenn

http://www.thisisyourbible.com/index...ow&mediaid=520

[pcosmar]

Nor would I. Jude affirmed the truth of the quote from Enoch, but that is not the same thing as calling all of Enoch scripture.

So "scripture" was defined by folks 250 years after Christ? after all who had walked with him were dead.

Jude referred to it as prophecy. Prophecy is the words of God spoken by men.

Ignore this if you wish.. but I would rather you seek to understand what was spoken and not dismiss it out of hand.

[Peace&Freedom]

So "scripture" was defined by folks 250 years after Christ? after all who had walked with him were dead.

Jude referred to it as prophecy. Prophecy is the words of God spoken by men.

Ignore this if you wish.. but I would rather you seek to understand what was spoken and not dismiss it out of hand.

NT scripture was decided and defined by the still living apostles and contemporaneous associates of the first century, NOT CHURCH FATHERS WHO CAME CENTURIES LATER. There were many 'prophets' in ancient times, it does not mean they were of God. Prophets of God were determined by their consistent record of predicting true events, not one comment here or there. Jude did not confirm anything other than the one prophecy statement in Enoch that appears in canon scripture, as coming from God.

[Ronin Truth]

Nephilim Watchers and Giants

Uploaded on Dec 2, 2009

Corrupters of the world, the Nephilim have fathered two separate generations of giants in the world, which are still effecting us to this day. Their fathers were the angels thrown out of heaven by God for the crimes of pride, jealousy, and lust.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYMg-Z63GZI

BTW, wouldn't God have seen that coming?

[pcosmar]

[SIZE=3][B]

BTW, wouldn't God have seen that coming?

I believe that He did.
And I have come to believe that He is allowing it to continue for a reason.

[Ronin Truth]

Nephilim pictures, real evidence, proof of the bible. ( read info please )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmA_lyYJLu0

[Ronin Truth]

Göbekli Tepe: Making us rethink our ancestors

German archaeologist Professor Klaus Schmidt first came to Turkey in 1978 for research but it wasn’t until 1994 that he realized the importance of Göbekli Tepe, an early Neolithic site in the southeast of Turkey. He tells us about site’s discovery, its importance, what has been uncovered to date and also has a message for those who traffic in antiquities. Nothing left to discover? Think again In this high-tech era, how many of us really expect any more major archaeological finds to be made? Professor Schmidt has been fortunate enough to be involved in just that. His interest in the Stone Age started when he was at elementary school and that eventually led him to Göbekli Tepe, some 15 kilometers northeast of Şanliurfa, in 1994. The press is calling the site the “oldest temple” in the world, as it dates back to the tenth millennium BC, predating Stonehenge, for example, by seven millenia. What does Dr. Schmidt think? “It would be better to call it the ‘oldest yet found and excavated’ place of cultic activity,” he underlines. “The constructions at Göbekli Tepe do not satisfy the concrete definition of a ‘temple,’ but the tag ‘oldest temple’ illustrates the site’s standing in human development quite well.” So how did the site’s significance come to light? “I was in Turkey with a fellow archaeologist to visit some Neolithic sites and Göbekli Tepe was one of a number of destinations,” he explains, noting: “The site was marked and shortly described by American archaeologist Peter Benedict in the 1960s because some stone tools were found there. However, its real significance went unnoticed until we went there. Not only did we stumble upon fragments of large sculptures but we also realized that the mound is artificial; it was quite obvious that this couldn’t be a natural hill. The whole place was also covered in flint chunks and chips, stone tools and traces of human activity. Some small mounds of rock and debris show tool marks. One large piece of limestone looked very familiar -- it resembled the T-shaped head of pillars I knew from Nevali Çori, an Early Neolithic place some kilometers to the north, where I worked in an excavation project before. But unlike Nevalı Çorı, where they were found only in the context of several special buildings, those pillars seemed to appear everywhere at Göbekli Tepe, which made it stand out as something unique. Although there are other sites with T-shaped pillars in the region, Göbekli Tepe is totally unique in its monumentality. To date, none of the other sites in the area have been researched to the same extent as Gobekli Tepe. “ The German Archaeological Institute (DAI) supported him when he requested to start a dig at the site. “Fundraising is always the crucial part in every archaeological undertaking,” he underlines and adds, “The excavations at Göbekli Tepe have been financially supported by the Deutsche Forschungsgesellschaft (German Research Society), a self-governed research funding society financed by the German states and the federal government, since 1995. We’ve been excavating at the site since then alongside Turkish archaeologists from the museum in Şanlıurfa, as well as international students and colleagues – archaeologists and colleagues from other disciplines. We do not work during summer, but in the cooler seasons, even though one gets used to the heat and we make sure to have large stocks of drinking water at the site: I now spend on average eight weeks there in spring and eight more in the autumn. “ Hunter-gatherers must have worked together Göbekli Tepe has captured the public’s imagination and, on one website alone, theories such as a link to astronomy and astrology given the circular arrangement of the stones are being heatedly discussed. Others are a talking about how carved reliefs and pictograms on the pillars at Göbekli Tepe support Babylonian and Sumerian oral creation myth that suggest hunter-gatherers started god worship and temple building before agriculture. For Professor Schmidt, Göbekli Tepe allows us an insight into the organization of hunter-gatherer groups. “The major discoveries as a result of work at the site are the realization that there must have been a very complex degree of organization in hunter-gatherer societies and that non-sedentary groups like those were building such monumental constructions,” he explains. “To build those gigantic circular arrangements would have required a certain degree of cooperation between groups as well as some organization to coordinate work like this. Coordinating and supplying larger groups of people might also be the key to the early motivation behind sedentism.” But could Göbekli Tepe have been a place of worship? “Since there are no finds hinting at regular living activity at the places, for example abattoir refuse, large conglomerations of ashes or fire places, it must have been used for different activities and among those, cultic and ritual practices have to be mentioned prominently,” he highlights. Another theory is that it could have been a burial ground but if so, where are the bones? “This cannot be excluded from current research,” he tells us, adding: “Work is still going on and of course a possible connection to burial ritual has to be considered. Bones could be situated in some of the areas not excavated yet, for example within the ‘banks’ between the pillars.” Just the tip of the iceberg Professor Schmidt compares the scale of work remaining to be done at Göbekli Tepe to other important archaeological sites such as Troy or Pergamon, where excavation work started over 100 years ago. “It’s hard to give a detailed schedule on how long further excavation will take,” he points out and notes,”There’s work for more than one generation of archaeologists at the place, without question.” Since work began at the site no signs of residences or fortifications have been found. Göbekli Tepe is now known for the stone columns, each weighing tons, which were bound into a circle by segments of wall that enclosed them on the interior and the exterior. In the center, there was a single pair of pillars which have large-scale reliefs of wild beasts, such as lions and bulls, wild boars, foxes and snakes. On the upper levels at Göbekli Tepe there are smaller versions of these as well as others that are quadrilateral. “Göbekli Tepe is approximately 300 meters wide and 15 meters high,” he explains, with only roughly five percent of the site being excavated thus far. Unlike 100 years ago, today’s archaeologists have access to a wide variety of technology to help them with their work. “The mound was examined in a geomagnetic survey which showed that there are many more circular arrangements of pillars buried there,” he explains. “Aerial photographs have also been taken of the site and a 3D-laser scan was also done recently to document the excavated areas in their current state. Several pillars have also been scanned and documented in detail. Judging by the dimensions of the whole mound and the results of the geomagnetic survey -- indicating that there are more enclosures waiting to be uncovered; only a small area of the whole complex has been excavated so far. Four enclosures, consisting of circles formed from standing pillars with a T-shaped head gathered around a central pair of noticeably larger pillars, have been uncovered close to each other. The floor consists of smooth rock. Another enclosure has been detected on the western plateau, a circular hollow in the rock. Although it lacks preserved pillars, it is apparently comparable to the other enclosures as there’s a foot mounting for the pillars. A sixth circular enclosure was also found and excavated recently.” So how old is the site? “Finds at Göbekli Tepe and natural scientific age determination place the site in the 10th millennium B.C.,” he tells us, highlighting, “It appears that building activity at Göbekli Tepe ended at the end of the 9th millennium BC.” Despite theft, site open to visitors Unfortunately, Göbekli Tepe hit the news late last year because a 40-centimeter-high, T-shaped stela with a human head above and animal figure below was stolen from the site. Professor Schmidt has no idea why anyone would want to take it. The site was briefly closed to the public but security has been improved: there’s now a gate to the site, which is opened in the morning and closed at night, and also a camera system in place. As a result of increasing interest in Göbekli Tepe, both local and foreign, there are plans for a visitor’s center and a presentation of the site for the general public. Does Professor Schmidt have a message for those behind the theft or for people who traffic in antiquities? “Not really,” he tells us, adding, “Except, we’d like the stela back.”

http://www.todayszaman.com/expat-zon...rs_233727.html

[pcosmar]

NT scripture was decided and defined by the still living apostles and contemporaneous associates of the first century,

No it was not.
"Cannon" was decided and defined by the Counsel of Laodicea. about 363–364 AD

Long after the the Apostles,, and generations after all first hand witnesses were long dead.
And after the Political Church had come to be. (State church)

[jmdrake]

Nephilim pictures, real evidence, proof of the bible. ( read info please )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmA_lyYJLu0

Ummmmm.....that video claims a skeleton of someone 8'4" is a "nephalim". But there are people that are just that tall. They don't have "12 fingers and 12 toes" or anything else special about them other than being really really tall.

[Ronin Truth]

Ummmmm.....that video claims a skeleton of someone 8'4" is a "nephalim". But there are people that are just that tall. They don't have "12 fingers and 12 toes" or anything else special about them other than being really really tall.

Yeah, there does seem to be some confusing labeling and terminology going around about this stuff. My current understanding is the that the nephilim/human female offspring hybrids were the giants and monsters. That gene pool was apparently not wiped out by the flood of Noah/Gilgamesh.

It does tend to get pretty confusing.

[pcosmar]

That gene pool was apparently not wiped out by the flood of Noah/Gilgamesh.

It does tend to get pretty confusing.

I suspect that they have refined their offspring,, so as to be less obvious.
I do not believed that they have reformed,, or repented their ways.

[Ronin Truth]

I suspect that they have refined their offspring,, so as to be less obvious.
I do not believed that they have reformed,, or repented their ways.

Well according to the Sumerian clay tablets history, **** Sapiens are a creation of indigenous hominids and Annunaki DNA genetic engineering. I'm curious about which Earth females species the "Nephilim" found so attractive to breed with, in the first place.

[Peace&Freedom]

No it was not.
"Cannon" was decided and defined by the Counsel of Laodicea. about 363–364 AD

Long after the the Apostles,, and generations after all first hand witnesses were long dead.
And after the Political Church had come to be. (State church)

According to Jesus, what the apostles and contemporaries they approved of said about the faith would be the true record, not statements or decisions made by church fathers centuries later. The divine authority to decide what was scripture thus extends only to the lifetime of the surviving apostles, witnesses and associates. Christ set the parameters for what would be authoritative, that put a time limit on the deciding and defining of canon that ended in the first century, thus it cannot include the claims of counsels later, whom Christ did NOT affirm had such authority.

[heavenlyboy34]

A stray early church father or two thought it might be scripture, the first century apostles did not. Enoch was an ORAL book, not written down in permanent form until sometime just prior to the AD era (if even that can be pinned down); and it's almost certain it was not written by the Enoch of the Bible. There are several verses in the OT and NT that cite extrabiblical sources as reliable historical texts, but this does not mean they are God-inspired or infallible texts.

Although called prophetic by Jude, "this does not mean the Book of Enoch is inspired by God and should be in the Bible. Jude’s quote is not the only quote in the Bible from a non-biblical source. The Apostle Paul quotes Epimenides in Titus 1:12 but that does not mean we should give any additional authority to Epimenides’ writings. The same is true with Jude, verses 14-15. Jude quoting from the book of Enoch does not indicate the entire Book of Enoch is inspired, or even true. All it means is that particular verse is true."
Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/book-of-...#ixzz3GExKHqfh

See also, on the doctrinal errors and contradictions of Enoch compared to canon scripture:
http://christianity.stackexchange.co...d-as-canonical

Finally, the warning that we are in a war between "principalities and powers" extends to the controversies over canon. Satan has wanted to corrupt the biblical canon by promoting non-God inspired or error-filled texts, to muddy the waters so there would be no reliable referent as to God's word. The most serious attempt was trying to get the Roman church to hijack the faith in the 4th century, mix NT teachings up with many pagan traditions, and convert the simple doctrines of salvation by faith alone, the bible alone as sufficient authority, and direct access to Christ, with a complicated works, church tradition, and intercession system.

In short, to turn God's unique revelation into another man-based religion. God fought back by insuring it would be the apostles and their circle who determined the canon, early in the first centuries, to keep the other side from contaminating it (and this allowed the Reformation to eventually restore mass understanding of the true core of the faith). We should be mindful the demonic attempt to obscure the true Word of God through 'canon questioning' or de-emphasis is ongoing, to this day.

Sola Fide, Sola Scriptura, and the other Solas come from the imagination of Reformationists. They're neither biblical nor apostolic teachings. Church tradition has been held as authoritative by Christians for 2000 years. There is nothing unbiblical/invalid about intercessions. Even Lutherans, Anglicans, and Methodists believe in this doctrine.

[Ronin Truth]

The Nephilim Giants

Copyright © 2003, Wm. Michael Mott

This piece was originally a post to the fantasticreality discussion group at Yahoo!Groups.

Who were the Nephilim? The heart of the matter lies in the ancient accounts of the Nephilim and their offspring--who and what they really were, what they did, where they are now, what their agenda is, and so on.

Conclusions about the nature of the Nephilim, as borne out by quotes from the book of Enoch, as well as the Books of Jude and Revelation, present a remarkable picture, as do the actual mentions in the original Old Testament of the Nephilim, Anakim (Anunna/Anunnaki), Rephaim, and Rapha--along with others descended from Nephilim forbears. In fact, the traditional Hebrew view is that the "rapha," meaning, interchangeably, "irrevocably dead," "evil spirits," "demons," and GIANTS, are the spirits of the half-angelic Nephilim offspring that were killed in the great cataclysm we remember as the Flood. This is not a tall tale, but a truth of which Christ and his disciples were aware. This is why they quoted from the book of Enoch.

The story can also be found in the books of Jasher, Jubilees, and the recently-found Dead Sea Scroll, the Book of Giants. Angels have bodies. They can take a variety of forms, as well ("for Satan can appear even as an angel of light," etc.). There were two angelic rebellions, the first being the Luciferian rebellion that most are familiar with; this is the source of what Paul calls, in the sixth chapter of Ephesians, "Spirit wickedness in high places." This is why Jesus calls Satan "the prince of the powers of the air."

UFO researchers, take notice. The second rebellion came much, much later, and is well known in Hebrew esoteric tradition. In fact, much of this knowledge is still intact in the Hebrew tradition. Many books which were originally in the Bible--the books of Enoch, Jasher, Jubilees, and so on--contain the whole story of the fallen angels who rebelled in order to mate with human women. These beings were called the NEPHILIM, literally "those who came/fell down."

A recent dead-sea scroll find and translation, "the Book of Giants," also contains this story in great detail. Before you question the validity of the non-canonical books I mention, keep in mind that not only were they part of the original Old Testament, but many of them--particularly Enoch--were quoted from by the Apostles in the New Testament. Quotes from the book of Enoch can found in the books of Jude, Revelation, and several other places. The book of Enoch pre-dated the time of Christ by around 300 years. In the Old Testament, Genesis tells us that "the sons of God looked upon the daughters of men and found them fair, and took of them wives as they chose." The result of these unholy, unsanctioned unions were "the mighty men of old, the men of renown." The actual translation of this passage reads something like this: "The nephilim came and took human wives for themselves, as many as they wanted. Their children were the nephilim of old, the giants."

The books of Jasher, Jubilees, Enoch, and others contain the complete story of what happened in the antediluvian (pre-flood) world. The Nephilim angels set themselves up as pagan "gods" to be worshipped, and their hybrid, genetically monstrous sons as "demigod" kings over the rest of humanity. These offspring were also called nephilim, and they were brutal, cruel, occultic and cannibalistic giants who treated ordinary human beings with contempt. There were 300 original "Watchers" above the Earth, who rebelled and became the Nephilim. Their leader was named Semyaza. Through corrupt angelic knowledge, the pre-flood world was corrupted.

The book of Enoch says that the Nephilim and their children "sinned against all flesh," creating HYBRID creatures which were part human, part beast, part fowl (or bird). Sound familiar? The 300 fallen "watchers," whose original job had been to PROTECT humanity and the Earth, were utterly depraved. They taught mankind the arts of witchcraft, sorcery, drug abuse, and war. The gene-pool of the human race was tainted as well, almost beyond recovery. When you read the story of Noah and his family, it should be understood that he was not only selected to survive because of the quality of his character; Genesis states that, unlike the majority of the rest of humanity, Noah was "found perfect in all his generations." In other words, he and his family were UNTAINTED by the fallen angelic bloodline, which God had cursed to eternal damnation (in the Hebrew Old Testament, the word "rapha" means "the damned," the "eternally dead," "demon," "ghost," and GIANT, i.e., the spirit of one of the offspring of the Nephilim.

After the flood, when MOST but not all of the Nephilim offspring and hybrid mutations were destroyed, the 300 former "watchers" were confined inside the Earth, in a prison from which they can not escape. These are those who are referred to by Paul in Ephesians chapter 6 as "the rulers of the spiritual darkness of this world." Although imprisoned, they are still VERY powerful and can influence world events, particularly through their offspring and creations. Jude refers to them, quoting directly from the book of Enoch, when he says "the angels who are chained in eternal darkness, awaiting the judgement of the great day." This is NOT a reference to Lucifer/Satan and his angels, who still "wage war in heaven." The more one learns about the ancient knowledge and traditions, the more it is seen that a spiritual yet physical and galactic war is behind all the myths, legends, religions and traditions of our world.

This a very complex topic, but the information is out there if you want to look for it.... Regarding this passage from Genesis: Chapter 6:1
"And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, 2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. 3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. 4 There were giants [nephilim] in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. 5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

The passage "and also after that" refers to a time after the flood, when an unspecified form of Nephilim or fallen angels once again took an interest in human women. These are not the same as those nephilim who did this before the flood however, as they are imprisoned. The result of these later unions were the Canaanite and other "giants" of the Old Testament, such as those mentioned in the Book of Numbers and elsewhere: "`And there we saw the Nephilim (the sons of Anak, who come from the Nephilim); and we seemed to ourselves like grasshoppers, and so we seemed to them.' Then all the congregation raised a loud cry; and the people wept that night." (Numbers Chapter 13 verse 33)

The Anakim or Children of Anak are synonymous with Zechariah Sitchin's Anunnaki, or Anunna. There was a specific reason that the Israelites were commanded to utterly wipe out these peoples, as this represented a new effort to undermine the planned destiny of humanity. The issue of technology, based on advanced scientific (fallen angelic) knowledge, comes into play in all of this as well. UFOs, particle beams, all types of advanced technology are described in both the Old and New Testament. This demonstrates that a physical presence is require by both sides in the ongoing conflict, and technology is required in order to function in our reality. UFOs and their relationship to predatory interlopers is made obvious in many places, particularly in the book of Zechariah.

Apparently a certain amount of this activity was allowed or permitted by God, among those who followed the ways of the Nephilim who had set themselves up to be worshipped and emulated:

1 Zch5:1Then again I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and behold a flying scroll. 2 And he said unto me: 'What seest thou?' And I answered: 'I see a flying scroll; the length thereof is twenty cubits, and the breadth thereof ten cubits.' 3 Then said he unto me: 'This is the curse that goeth forth over the face of the whole land; for every one that stealeth shall be swept away on the one side like it; and every one that sweareth shall be swept away on the other side like it. 4 I cause it to go forth, saith the LORD of hosts, and it shall enter into the house of the thief, and into the house of him that sweareth falsely by My name; and it shall abide in the midst of his house, and shall consume it with the timber thereof and the stones thereof.' 5 Then the angel that spoke with me went forth, and said unto me: 'Lift up now thine eyes, and see what is this that goeth forth.'

In ancient times, a "scroll" was one rolled-up piece of leather or parchment, tightly bound. In other words, this was a cylindrical flying object of some sort, one which moved with intent and purpose. When one considers the "cybernetic" aspects of many unknown creatures and entities--metallic hardness, metallic sounds, luminous eyes, and so on--it becomes apparent that we are dealing with an advanced and ancient technology, one which easily melds and utilizes genetic material and inert technology.

These qualities have been noted in strange creatures for centuries, but recent beings with such qualities abound: Mothman, El Chupacabras, the Hopkinsville/Kelly Goblins, "El Diablito" (a super-dense, violent dwarf) in Argentina, and a variety of other creatures described as more or less impervious to machete or shovel-blows, pick-blows, vehicle impact, shotgun blasts, and handgun ammo. Again, all of these things tie together to give us an overall bigger picture. Similar traditions exist in the Hindu Vedas and Puranas, Norse mythology, Greek mythology, and elsewhere.

The Judeo-Christian tradition, in my opinion and after twenty-plus years of study, is the most accurate one in terms of painting a picture which may represent some sort of historical accuracy. The oldest written language which we know of is that of ancient Sumer (the biblical Shin'ar). Ur was a city in this region (later called Chaldea), and it was from Ur that Abram (later called Abraham) came. He was the son of a pagan priest. How do we know this? Because cuneiform tablets have been found which describe the leaving of Abram from Ur, along with his possessions, servants, family members, and so on! And these match the biblical account.

The oldest extant written story, tradition, or text that has been translated is the Epic of Gilgamesh, a half-human demigod who lamented his mortality, and who went on a journey (part of it below the ground, in the underworld) in search of immortality (like that of his father). An interesting observation: In the "Book of Giants" (4Q203, 1Q23, 2Q26, 4Q530-532, 6Q8), a Dead Sea scroll find, several giants, and their Nephilim fathers, are mentioned by name. One of them is Gilgamesh, the same Gilgamesh from the Sumerian tradition, a "mighty man" who is lamenting his own impending death and damnation: 4Q530 Col. 2 1 concerns the death of our souls [ . . . ] and all his comrades, [and Oh]ya told them what Gilgamesh said to him 2[ . . . ] and it was said [ . . . ] "concerning [ . . . ] the leader has cursed the potentates" Enoch sends a tablet which pronounces the sentence of the flood, to the giants (who were rulers over men): 4Q530 Frag. 2 The scribe [Enoch . . . ] 2[ . . . ] 3a copy of the second tablet that [Epoch] se[nt . . . ] 4in the very handwriting of Enoch the noted scribe [ . . . In the name of God the great] 5and holy one, to Shemihaza and all [his companions . . . ] 61et it be known to you that not [ . . . ] 7and the things you have done, and that your wives [ . . . ] 8they and their sons and the wives of [their sons . . . ] 9by your licentiousness on the earth, and there has been upon you [ . . . and the land is crying out] 10and complaining about you and the deeds of your children [ . . . ] 11the harm that you have done to it. [ . . . ] 12until Raphael arrives, behold, destruction [is coming, a great flood, and it will destroy all living things] 13and whatever is in the deserts and the seas. And the meaning of the matter [ . . . ] 14upon you for evil. But now, loosen the bonds bi[nding you to evil . . . ] l5and pray. The hybrid beings mentioned in other books such as Enoch and Jubilees are also in the Giants Scroll: 4Q531 Frag. 2 [ . . . ] they defiled [ . . . ] 2[ . . . they begot] giants and monsters [ . . . ] 3[ . . . ] they begot, and, behold, all [the earth was corrupted . . . ] 4[ . . . ] with its blood and by the hand of [ . . . ] 5[giant's] which did not suffice for them and [ . . . ] 6[ . . . ] and they were seeking to devour many [ . . . ] 7[ . . . ] 8[ . . . ] the monsters attacked it. 4Q532 Col. 2 Frags. 1 - 6 2[ . . . ] flesh [ . . . ] 3al[l . . . ] monsters [ . . . ] will be [ . . . ] 4[ . . . ] they would arise [ . . . ] lacking in true knowledge [ . . . ] because [ . . . ] 5[ . . . ] the earth [grew corrupt . . . ] mighty [ . . . ] 6[ . . . ] they were considering [ . . . ] 7[ . . . ] from the angels upon [ . . . ] 8[ . . . ] in the end it will perish and die [ . . . ] 9[ . . . ] they caused great corruption in the [earth . . . ] [ . . . this did not] suffice to [ . . . ] "they will be [ . . . ]

So the oldest written human tradition that we know of is reflected in the Hebrew tradition of the Nephilim and their hybrid children. The monumental task at hand is to deduce, if possible, where and how Mothman (identical to the Sumero-Babylonian UTUKKU, a demon of the KI GAL or underworld) and other anomalous entities fit into this tradition. Additionally, there's an entire related tradition of the "pre-Adamic" or "pre-Adamite" world, which was peopled by humanoid beings of various types, along with other strange beings. These may be some of the same hominids that are represented in the fossil record; and some of these forms, as survivors and anachronisms, may explain some sightings of anomalous beings.

Lilith may well have been of one of these races, and she fled into the wilderness, where she mated with subterranean "demons" and other beings, swearing that she and her children (the "Lilim") would always prey on human children, and seduce human beings into hybrid-producing sexual encounters. Again, this is paralleled in nearly EVERY ancient tradition, from the Lamias of Greece, to the Huldre-folk and seductresses of Scandinavia and the Dragon-kings, queens, princes and princesses of China and Japan.

http://www.thewatcherfiles.com/giants/giants.htm

[heavenlyboy34]

According to Jesus, what the apostles and contemporaries they approved of said about the faith would be the true record, not statements or decisions made by church fathers centuries later. The divine authority to decide what was scripture thus extends only to the lifetime of the surviving apostles, witnesses and associates. Christ set the parameters for what would be authoritative, that put a time limit on the deciding and defining of canon that ended in the first century, thus it cannot include the claims of counsels later, whom Christ did NOT affirm had such authority.

The apostles handed down their authority through apostolic succession.
http://orthodoxwiki.org/Apostolic_succession

Apostolic succession is the tracing of a direct line of apostolic ordination, Orthodox doctrine, and full communion from the Apostles to the current episcopacy of the Orthodox Church. All three elements are constitutive of apostolic succession.
It is through apostolic succession that the Orthodox Christian Church is the spiritual successor to the original body of believers in Christ that was composed of the Apostles. This succession manifests itself through the unbroken succession of its bishops back to the apostles.
The unbrokenness of apostolic succession is significant because of Jesus Christ's promise that the "gates of hell" (Matthew 16:18) would not prevail against the Church, and his promise that he himself would be with the apostles to "the end of the age" (Matthew 28:20). According to this interpretation, a complete disruption or end of such apostolic succession would mean that these promises were not kept as would an apostolic succession which, while formally intact, completely abandoned the teachings of the Apostles and their immediate successors; as, for example, if all the bishops of the world agreed to abrogate the Nicene Creed or repudiate the Holy Scripture.
Orthodox teachings today are the same as that of the first apostles, though their mode of expression has adapted over the centuries to deal with heresies, changes in culture and so forth. This form of the doctrine was first formulated by St. Irenaeus of Lyons in the second century, in response to certain Gnostics. These Gnostics claimed that Christ or the Apostles passed on some teachings secretly, or that there were some secret apostles, and that they (the Gnostics) were passing on these otherwise secret teachings. Irenaeus responded that the identity of the original Apostles was well known, as was the main content of their teaching and the identity of the Apostles' successors. Therefore, anyone teaching something contrary to what was known to be apostolic teaching was not, in any sense, a successor to the Apostles or to Christ.
In addition to a line of historic transmission, Orthodox Christian churches additionally require that a hierarch maintain Orthodox doctrine as well as full communion with other Orthodox bishops. As such, the Orthodox do not recognize the existence of apostolic succession outside the Orthodox Church, precisely because the episcopacy is a ministry within the Church.

Scriptural references to Apostolic Authority

No one else dared join them, even though they were highly regarded by the people. Acts 5:13 (Note: this shows that the early Christians had a reverence for them)

We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. Acts 15:24

As they traveled from town to town, they delivered the decisions reached by the apostles and elders in Jerusalem for the people to obey. Acts 16:4

For we are not like many, peddling the word of God, but as from sincerity, but as from God, we speak in Christ in the sight of God. 2 Corinthians 2:17 (Note: this shows that the office they hold is more then self appointed authority).

having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone Eph. 2:20 (Note: the word founation is used to describe "the apostles and prophets", not just St. Peter)

Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood. Acts 20:28 (Note: this is a clear testimony that the Holy Spirit appointed the Twelve to be "overseers" and "shepherds of the church")

As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. John 17:18 (Note: the Bible compares the ministry of Jesus to that of the Twelve)
Transfer of Apostolic Authority Via the Holy Mystery of Ordination

Paul and Barnabas appointed elders for them in each church and, with prayer and fasting, committed them to the Lord, in whom they had put their trust. Acts 14:23

Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, "Brother Saul, the Lord—Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here—has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit." Immediately, something like scales fell from Saul's eyes, and he could see again. He got up and was baptized, and after taking some food, he regained his strength. Acts 9:17-19 (Note: it is also possible that this is a reference to Christmaton.)

"Therefore, brethren, select from among you seven men of good reputation, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we may put in charge of this task. "But we will devote ourselves to prayer and to the ministry of the word." The statement found approval with the whole congregation; and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit, and Philip, Prochorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas and Nicolas, a proselyte from Antioch. And these they brought before the apostles; and after praying, they laid their hands on them. Acts 6:3-6


I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure has come. 2 Tim. 4:1-6 (St. Paul hands down his ministry to Timothy)


For this reason I remind you to kindle afresh the gift of God which is in you through the laying on of my hands. 2 Tim. 1:6 (Note: Paul reminds Timothy of the gift he received through laying of hands)

Do not neglect the spiritual gift within you, which was bestowed on you through prophetic utterance with the laying on of hands by the presbytery. 1 Tim. 4:14 (Note: This shows that divine authority is bestowed unto someone using laying on of hands)

In those days Peter stood up among the believers(a group numbering about a hundred and twenty) and said, "Brothers, the Scripture had to be fulfilled which the Holy Spirit spoke long ago through the mouth of David concerning Judas, who served as guide for those who arrested Jesus— he was one of our number and shared in this ministry." (With the reward he got for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out. everyone in Jerusalem heard about this, so they called that field in their language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.) "For," said Peter, "it is written in the book of Psalms, " 'May his place be deserted; let there be no one to dwell in it,' and, " 'May another take his place of leadership.' Therefore it is necessary to choose one of the men who have been with us the whole time the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, beginning from John's baptism to the time when Jesus was taken up from us. For one of these must become a witness with us of his resurrection." So they proposed two men: Joseph called Barsabbas (also known as Justus) and Matthias. Then they prayed, "Lord, you know everyone's heart. Show us which of these two you have chosen to take over this apostolic ministry, which Judas left to go where he belongs." Then they cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias; so he was added to the eleven apostles. Acts 1:15-26
The Testimony Of The Early Church

"Through countryside and city [the apostles] preached, and they appointed their earliest converts, testing them by the Spirit, to be the bishops and deacons of future believers. Nor was this a novelty, for bishops and deacons had been written about a long time earlier. . . . Our apostles knew through our Lord Jesus Christ that there would be strife for the office of bishop. For this reason, therefore, having received perfect foreknowledge, they appointed those who have already been mentioned and afterwards added the further provision that, if they should die, other approved men should succeed to their ministry" First Epistle of Clement Letter to the Corinthians 42:4–5, 44:1–3 A.D. 80

"When I had come to Rome, I [visited] Anicetus, whose deacon was Eleutherus. And after Anicetus [died], Soter succeeded, and after him Eleutherus. In each succession and in each city there is a continuance of that which is proclaimed by the law, the prophets, and the Lord" Hegesippus Memoirs, cited in Eusebius, Ecclesiastical History 4:22 A.D. 180

"It is possible, then, for everyone in every church, who may wish to know the truth, to contemplate the tradition of the apostles which has been made known to us throughout the whole world. And we are in a position to enumerate those who were instituted bishops by the apostles and their successors down to our own times, men who neither knew nor taught anything like what these heretics rave about" Irenaeus Against Heresies 3:3:1 A.D. 189

"[The apostles] founded churches in every city, from which all the other churches, one after another, derived the tradition of the faith, and the seeds of doctrine, and are every day deriving them, that they may become churches. Indeed, it is on this account only that they will be able to deem themselves apostolic, as being the offspring of apostolic churches. Every sort of thing must necessarily revert to its original for its classification. Therefore the churches, although they are so many and so great, comprise but the one primitive Church, [founded] by the apostles, from which they all [spring]. In this way, all are primitive, and all are apostolic, while they are all proved to be one in unity" Tertullian Demurrer Against the Heretics 20 A.D. 200

[Ronin Truth]

the watchers in bible

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...40.7BqYpz4d7kc

[pcosmar]

, thus it cannot include the claims of counsels later, whom Christ did NOT affirm had such authority.

And yet,,, it was 360 years later that "cannon" was defined,, and that was after the creation of a State Church (through Constantine).

And nothing in the known (abridged) accepted scripture contradicts what was recorded by Enoch.
It only expands on, and illuminates what is recorded elsewhere in scripture.

I accept it,, as did Jude,, the brother of Jesus,, as prophecy. (and therefore relevant)

[Peace&Freedom]

And yet,,, it was 360 years later that "cannon" was defined,, and that was after the creation of a State Church (through Constantine).

And nothing in the known (abridged) accepted scripture contradicts what was recorded by Enoch.
It only expands on, and illuminates what is recorded elsewhere in scripture.

I accept it,, as did Jude,, the brother of Jesus,, as prophecy. (and therefore relevant)

Men hundreds of years after Jesus making claims they are "deciding the canon" does not establish they had such authority FROM JESUS to do so. Jesus is the authority for what is canon, not man. Christ's mandate was limited to the apostles and their contemporaries, with no open-ended authority given to them to authorize any 'ongoing canon' by successors the apostles would NOT be around to approve of. This is one reason why the end of the book of Revelation stresses that the canon was completed. Apostolic succession is a Roman invention and utter distortion of the scriptures, as are other pagan-drenched doctrines it conflated the faith with.

Jude did not accept Enoch as divinely inspired scripture, only as a historically reliable source. He cited a statement from it and confirmed it was true. That does not confirm the other statements from that book that patently contradict true canon scripture:

What we don't know is when The Book of Enoch was written, who the author was, or what Jude was quoting. (The best I can tell, the Biblical figure Enoch was not the author, but rather, someone who lived closer to the time of Christ, or possibly even after, based on some of the references.) There are many arguments on all sides of this debate, but the real question in the back of many Christian minds is:
Is it Scripture?

Is this the Holy-Spirit inspired word of God? This is where we can pretty confidently say "no". If it were Scripture, we would expect it to be free of false doctrine. What we find instead is that false doctrine is one of the most prevalent themes in the book!

Taking a cursory look at the text up through Chapter 59, I found the following false doctrines. (I may be off on one here or there, but it should be sufficient to get my point across.)


1:1 Implies restoration during tribulation - not congruent with scriptures.


1:8 In conflict with the doctrine that peace was made at the cross. Also, in the last days tribulation will increase for the righteous - this "verse" seems to dispute that.


2:2-3 Appears to contradict 2 Pet 3:3-7


5:4 Is an admonition to some unknown party - this is very irregular relative to the scriptures (i.e. authentic ancient writings by God-fearing Jews)


6:3 Semjaza seems to be listed as the leader of the angels, which is not scriptural


6:3,8 None of these angels are mentioned in the Bible


8:1 Azazel isn't even listed in 6:8 as one of the angels that fornicated with women


8:3 Araqiel and Shamsiel aren't listed in 6:8 either


10:2 Enoch allegedly wrote about Noah, even though the Bible teaches that Enoch was taken up to heaven years before Noah was born.


10:4-6,12 Implies angels can be bound & hid in holes under rocks. This is contrary to scripture.


10:8 Ascribes all the sin of the fallen angels to one named Azazel - not scriptural.


10:15-11:2 Seems to imply that permanent restoration took place after the flood - clearly not true. It seems the true author of this book confused scriptures pertaining to the future restoration.


13:5-6,14:4-5,7 Implies fallen angels can't talk to God - this contradicts Job. Also implies that angels were repentant, but weren't received back by God - very strange doctrine.


14 Gives a very strange description of Heaven that conflicts with many scriptures


15:8-10 Very strange doctrine about "evil spirits" proceeding from unredeemable giants


17-18,21,23 Gives a very strange description of the earth & universe which is clearly not true. Also alludes to the ancient model of astronomy that held that there were 7 stars (the closest planets) which burned like the sun (they don't.)


19:3 Discredits all other prophecy about the consumation of the ages.


20 Lists strange angels not in scripture, and incorrectly assigns the roles of Michael (the warrior) and Gabriel (the messenger)


21:7-10 Seems to contradict Biblical descriptions of the present & final judgement places for the fallen angels


22 Contradicts the Biblical descriptions of past, present & future dwelling places for the righteous who die


32:2-6 Seems to imply the Garden of Eden was still in existance after the Flood


33:1-2 Says Heaven rests on a foundation that is at the Eastern edge of the earth


33:3 He claims he counted the stars & individually mapped them, which is impossible scripturally (& scientifically)


34 Says the winds come out of a "portal" at the Northern edge of the earth


36:3 Says the stars come out of portals at the Eastern edge of the earth & move West


38:5-6 Contradicts Daniel & other prophecies about the Mellinial Reign


39:1-2 Very strange implications here about the "seed" of angels dwelling with men at the end... this contradicts the scriptures


40:7 Talks about the "Satans" - plural, different than the Bible, who gives that name to only one fallen angel. Also, implies Satan can't stand in God's presence, contrary to Job.


40:9 Once again mixes up the roles of the 2 Archangels & adds more names in. Michael's role in scripture is related to conquoring nations & fighting spiritual wars, while Gabriel's relates to bringing messages & visions to people.


41:1-2 Says the Kingdom of God is divided - it's not & can't be scripturally. Also describes sinners being repelled from a mansion, which is also not scriptural, unless you look at a parable Jesus told, which was not intended to be literal.


41:4-5 Says the sun, moon, winds, etc. are stored in chambers & released at appointed times.


41:6-7 Implies the sun & moon move opposite of each other


43:1-3,44 Very weird model of the nature of stars & lightning


47:4 Says God requires the blood of the saints... very strange


51:1 Says Sheol & Hell will give back to the earth, which isn't scriptural - also Hell is a NT term, not OT


51:2 Disputes the Biblical doctrine that we are chosen. (We don't have to wait until Christ's return to be chosen.) This isn't scriptural.


General: Seems to imply Enoch came back down to earth after being taken up to Heaven, which is not scriptural.

http://christianity.stackexchange.co...d-as-canonical

[Ronin Truth]

Hey, whatever is required to make the post-Jesus Paulinism agenda to work out.

Right?

[pcosmar]

Men hundreds of years after Jesus making claims they are "deciding the canon" does not establish they had such authority FROM JESUS to do so.

I agree..
And yet Canon was decided by them. It was decided 360 years after .

I personally,, disagree and reject that decision.

[Ronin Truth]

the watchers fallen angels

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...ed=0CGEQ1QIoAA

[Ronin Truth]

the grigori

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...ed=0CGEQ1QIoAw

[Ronin Truth]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDLuQ35mItg