Huckabee threatens to leave GOP over gay marriage

[Legend1104]

I wish the liberty movement had the ability to co-opt the gay marriage movement and twist it into a "get government out of marriage" campaign. The political power that they have could be used for good instead of more government intrusion.

The gay marriage issue is a big government trap. Those that are libertarians that support "allowing" gay marriage are on the wrong side of the issue and it is a trap. We should never believe the government has the right to "allow" marriage because we should never concede that the government is in control over it. I am a Christian and I believe that marriage is an institution sanctioned by God and that gay marriage is anti-Biblical. Thus, I do not believe God honors it and thus it is not really a true marriage, but I don't think the government has anything to do with it. This is actually a great winning point. As more states start to fall for the gay marriage trap, we should be more and more able to convince those on the Christian right that the only way that they can "stop it" is to end government/state sanctioned marriage. You are wrong if you believe that the Christian right leaving the party is good. Rather, we are losing a large potential ally in the fight for freedom. I have seen a lot of my Christian right friends turn on issues of war, big government, etc. I believe that gay marriage is another avenue of the freedom movement that we can win on if we push it the right way.

[Brett85]

The gay marriage issue is a big government trap. Those that are libertarians that support "allowing" gay marriage are on the wrong side of the issue and it is a trap. We should never believe the government has the right to "allow" marriage because we should never concede that the government is in control over it. I am a Christian and I believe that marriage is an institution sanctioned by God and that gay marriage is anti-Biblical. Thus, I do not believe God honors it and thus it is not really a true marriage, but I don't think the government has anything to do with it. This is actually a great winning point. As more states start to fall for the gay marriage trap, we should be more and more able to convince those on the Christian right that the only way that they can "stop it" is to end government/state sanctioned marriage. You are wrong if you believe that the Christian right leaving the party is good. Rather, we are losing a large potential ally in the fight for freedom. I have seen a lot of my Christian right friends turn on issues of war, big government, etc. I believe that gay marriage is another avenue of the freedom movement that we can win on if we push it the right way.

Do you think that Rand will start pushing this position? I don't see why he doesn't. It would make him more popular with younger voters, while at the same time he wouldn't be promoting government recognition of same sex marriages and wouldn't be taking the liberal position on the issue.

[GunnyFreedom]

That's certainly true. Neocons can be either/or. Around here, nearly all the neocons are pharisees, and nearly all the pharisees are neocons.

[Legend1104]

Do you think that Rand will start pushing this position? I don't see why he doesn't. It would make him more popular with younger voters, while at the same time he wouldn't be promoting government recognition of same sex marriages and wouldn't be taking the liberal position on the issue.

I think that will be the best position he can have but at the moment it seems like he treats the issue like Adrian Monk and a whore house. He ain't going near it.

[William Tell]

Do you think that Rand will start pushing this position? I don't see why he doesn't. It would make him more popular with younger voters, while at the same time he wouldn't be promoting government recognition of same sex marriages and wouldn't be taking the liberal position on the issue.

Rand does not seem to like trying to totally change peoples ways of thinking, like Ron does. It's just not his style it seems. He tries to find common ground. Ron brought up things and ideas most people had never heard of.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Just snipping for brevity. I would not make a judgment on that. It is published that Dr. Paul attends an evangelical church and that his faith informs his thinking and practice.

What I was addressing is the hostility toward Christian libertarians. Many of us here make very reasoned and Constitutional arguments about the balance of faith and Constitutional liberty. True Constitutional liberty gives government limited power, and gives the people the right to self-govern. In order for this to happen, the people must self govern. Failure to do so creates a space the government is only too happy to fill.

Back to the regularly scheduled topic.

You guys must be delusional if you think the Christian 'Values' folks in the GOP are even in the same stadium as libertarianism. You do know where Paul did his worst in 08 and 12 right? The Southern Bible belt where a majority of these folks live. Where did he do the best? In that godless Northeast that everybody hates. Hate to break it to you, but the Christian Values folks in the GOP are rabid authoritarian theocrats for the most part - ready for a second Crusades, a State-based upon the Sharia Christian equivalent, and a host of other Puritanical non-sense. They're not even remotely close to any friend to a libertarian. I regularly get into arguments with these folks, and because their whole entire being is wrapped in the religion, it's impossible to have a rational merit-fact based conversation with these folks. I'll be glad when they leave - just as Goldwater prophesied they'd be a pox on the GOP. I have nothing against Christian libertarians, in fact I am often in much agreement even with some of their theological arguments (Say....Christian Anarchists).

[cindy25]

he is planning to run 3rd party, and needs an excuse? maybe Rand should learn from him

[LibertyEagle]

You guys must be delusional if you think the Christian 'Values' folks in the GOP are even in the same stadium as libertarianism. You do know where Paul did his worst in 08 and 12 right? The Southern Bible belt where a majority of these folks live. Where did he do the best? In that godless Northeast that everybody hates. Hate to break it to you, but the Christian Values folks in the GOP are rabid authoritarian theocrats for the most part - ready for a second Crusades, a State-based upon the Sharia Christian equivalent, and a host of other Puritanical non-sense. They're not even remotely close to any friend to a libertarian. I regularly get into arguments with these folks, and because their whole entire being is wrapped in the religion, it's impossible to have a rational merit-fact based conversation with these folks. I'll be glad when they leave - just as Goldwater prophesied they'd be a pox on the GOP. I have nothing against Christian libertarians, in fact I am often in much agreement even with some of their theological arguments (Say....Christian Anarchists).

You are painting with way too broad a brush. Sure, I agree that there are some who were brought into the Republican Party when Reagan ran, whose sole interest is using big government to shove their own agenda down everyone's throats. But, this is only a small faction. There are many Christians who want our Constitution followed and desire the very limited government that goes along with that.

The Libertarian Party was started by disgruntled conservatives. Many of whom were Christians. I think people have forgotten that.

[LibertyEagle]

Rand does not seem to like trying to totally change peoples ways of thinking, like Ron does. It's just not his style it seems. He tries to find common ground. Ron brought up things and ideas most people had never heard of.

Ron already got those. But, unfortunately, after Larry McDonald died, he lost his biggest conservative friend. From seeing Dr. Paul in both of the last elections, it was clear to me that he had forgotten how to speak in terms that conservatives could hear. Yet, in more than one circumstance, I have seen Rand push the very same ideal to conservatives and see them stand up and cheer, while they had the totally opposite reaction when Ron pushed it. Fact is, Rand is making inroads with people who Ron could not.

[euphemia]

Hate to break it to you, but the Christian Values folks in the GOP are rabid authoritarian theocrats for the most part - ready for a second Crusades, a State-based upon the Sharia Christian equivalent, and a host of other Puritanical non-sense. They're not even remotely close to any friend to a libertarian.

That's a pretty broad brush you are using. Please don't aim in my direction. I am both a Christian and a libertarian. Sweeping generalizations do not help.

[Wooden Indian]

Huckabee threatens to leave GOP over gay marriage

[HOLLYWOOD]

So study this whole "GAY" American society... it mounts to ~2% of the population, but 25% of the news and attention. The media and government are yet once again catagorizing and dividing the people on their differences.

Tax Hike Mike Huckabee is just another self enriching media clown to drive groups further apart. The former governor of Arkansas and NEWSCORP puppet would play the part and incite whomever & whatever his masters in media tell him.

Huckabee has made millions over the years at FOX NEWS playing the Divide Game.

[TheCount]

So study this whole "GAY" American society... it mounts to ~2% of the population, but 25% of the news and attention. The media and government are yet once again catagorizing and dividing the people on their differences.

It wouldn't even be an issue if theocrats weren't trying to impose their religious beliefs on their neighbors via violence.

[LibertyEagle]

It wouldn't even be an issue if theocrats weren't trying to impose their religious beliefs on their neighbors via violence.

So, you are advocating more federal government control, eh? Because that is what this is about. Whether the federal government can impose their will on the states.

[TheCount]

So, you are advocating more federal government control, eh? Because that is what this is about. Whether the federal government can impose their will on the states.

Federal government control of marriage was originally instituted by "values voters" trying to prevent interracial marriage. It's their fault twice now.

[Brett85]

It wouldn't even be an issue if theocrats weren't trying to impose their religious beliefs on their neighbors via violence.

I don't recall those who support traditional marriage ever advocating "violence" against homosexuals. I don't recall gay marriage ever being a crime either. I don't recall SWAT teams ever being sent in to break up gay marriage ceremonies and arrest gay couples.

[euphemia]

It wouldn't even be an issue if theocrats weren't trying to impose their religious beliefs on their neighbors via violence.

Excuse me?

[Working Poor]

The thing is many people pushed to legalize gay marriage it is a right now and I think there are far more important issues at hand right now than gay marriage. Like maybe the ever encroaching police state and our military fighting in many different countries. If gays want the government all up in their personal business I say let them have it. And, so what, and who cares if the Huckster is leaving the GOP?

[TheCount]

Excuse me?

You're excused. I didn't realize that you had someplace to be.

[euphemia]

Who is doing that? Who is forcing anything down your throat or accusing you of doing the same with your unbelief?

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

That's a pretty broad brush you are using. Please don't aim in my direction. I am both a Christian and a libertarian. Sweeping generalizations do not help.

Do you self-identify as one of the Christian Values folks? No, then I'm not talking about you - am I? It's like people are totally ignoring that Paul got <3% in the Bible Belt where a majority of these folks live. Meanwhile he gets double digits in NH and ME. Yeah....you can take your Christian Values folks and shove them where the sun don't shine. Let's not forget all those mighty SC Christian folk booing the Golden Rule. Bomb baby Bomb. Kill those brown folk and any and all Muslims. HOLY WAR BABY!

[twomp]

Hey Huckabee, can you take this guy with you when you go?

[TheCount]

Who is doing that? Who is forcing anything down your throat or accusing you of doing the same with your unbelief?

The government when used as a weapon by those members of the religious right who seek to enforce their beliefs on their neighbors.

I don't see how I can possibly make this more clear.

[euphemia]

The government when used as a weapon by those members of the religious right who seek to enforce their beliefs on their neighbors.

I don't see how I can possibly make this more clear.

I'm not seeing your point. You said religious people used violence to cram religion down your throat, yet you give no proof. Please prove what you are saying and give verifiable sources. You are accusing people of a very serious thing, and that seems not to bother you. That's more of a way to shut down discourse, not promote it. Not exactly liberty minded.

[TheCount]

I'm not seeing your point. You said religious people used violence to cram religion down your throat, yet you give no proof. Please prove what you are saying and give verifiable sources. You are accusing people of a very serious thing, and that seems not to bother you. That's more of a way to shut down discourse, not promote it. Not exactly liberty minded.

Okay, I want to buy liquor on a sunday. I can't, it is illegal. Enforced by the government via violence.

[TheCount]

SECTION 61-4-120.

Sunday sales; exception.

(A) It is unlawful for a person to sell or offer for sale wine or beer in this State between the hours of twelve o'clock Saturday night and sunrise Monday morning.

SECTION 61-4-130.

Seizure of contraband beer or wine; retention of possession upon posting of cash bond; forfeiture of bond.

If beer or wine is sold or delivered to a person from a place of business between the hours of twelve o'clock Saturday night and sunrise Monday morning, all beer and wine found in the place of business is contraband and must be seized by a peace officer and handled as contraband liquor.

SECTION 61-4-140.

Open containers on Sundays.

A person who drinks beer or wine or possesses beer or wine in an open container between the hours of twelve o'clock Saturday night and sunrise Monday morning at a place licensed to sell beer or wine is considered guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction, must be fined not more than one hundred dollars or be imprisoned for not more than thirty days.

The special (more expensive) permit required to sell beer and wine in your restaurant on a Sunday is called a Sabbath permit.

[euphemia]

Okay, I want to buy liquor on a sunday. I can't, it is illegal. Enforced by the government via violence.

#whatafirstworldproblem #getorganizedbeforesunday #buyacalendar

[TheCount]

#whatafirstworldproblem #getorganizedbeforesunday #buyacalendar

#yourreligionenforcedviaviolence #theocracy

[twomp]

#whatafirstworldproblem #getorganizedbeforesunday #buyacalendar

#gotprovenwrong #couldntthinkofabetterreply

[kcchiefs6465]

The special (more expensive) permit required to sell beer and wine in your restaurant on a Sunday is called a Sabbath permit.

Source?

I googled it and didn't find any references to a "Sabbath Permit."

Not that your point is invalid, I'm simply curious as to if that is what they actually call it.

State I used to live in, no where sold on Sundays. Until a couple did. I'd imagine a more expensive permit (I asked the one liquor store owner and he said most simply opted not to... if I told 99% of the people back there that a store does sell above 40 proof on Sunday they'd bet money against it, sure enough, two stores, and I've been all around the state, did). Here it is not an issue.