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Thread: NY court hears arguments that chimps have rights

  1. #31
    Captive orangutan has human right to freedom, Argentine court rules

    (Reuters) - An orangutan held in an Argentine zoo can be freed and transferred to a sanctuary after a court recognized the ape as a "non-human person" unlawfully deprived of its freedom, local media reported on Sunday.

    Animal rights campaigners filed a habeas corpus petition - a document more typically used to challenge the legality of a person's detention or imprisonment - in November on behalf of Sandra, a 29-year-old Sumatran orangutan at the Buenos Aires zoo.

    In a landmark ruling that could pave the way for more lawsuits, the Association of Officials and Lawyers for Animal Rights (AFADA) argued the ape had sufficient cognitive functions and should not be treated as an object.

    The court agreed Sandra, born into captivity in Germany before being transferred to Argentina two decades ago, deserved the basic rights of a "non-human person."

    "This opens the way not only for other Great Apes, but also for other sentient beings which are unfairly and arbitrarily deprived of their liberty in zoos, circuses, water parks and scientific laboratories," the daily La Nacion newspaper quoted AFADA lawyer Paul Buompadre as saying.

    Orangutan is a word from the Malay and Indonesian languages that means "forest man."

    Sandra's case is not the first time activists have sought to use the habeas corpus writ to secure the release of wild animals from captivity.

    A U.S. court this month tossed out a similar bid for the freedom of 'Tommy' the chimpanzee, privately owned in New York state, ruling the chimp was not a "person" entitled to the rights and protections afforded by habeas corpus.

    In 2011, the animal rights group People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) filed a lawsuit against marine park operator SeaWorld, alleging five wild-captured orca whales were treated like slaves. A San Diego court dismissed the case.

    The Buenos Aires zoo has 10 working days to seek an appeal.

    A spokesman for the zoo declined to comment to Reuters. The zoo's head of biology, Adrian Sestelo, told La Nacion that orangutans were by nature calm, solitary animals which come together only to mate and care for their young.

    "When you don't know the biology of a species, to unjustifiably claim it suffers abuse, is stressed or depressed, is to make one of man's most common mistakes, which is to humanize animal behavior," Sestelo told the daily.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...0JZ0Q620141221



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  3. #32
    I too have been a close observer of the doings of the Bank of the United States...When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank...You are a den of vipers and thieves. I have determined to rout you out, and by the Eternal, I will rout you out!

    Andrew Jackson, 1834



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    Captive orangutan has human right to freedom, Argentine court rules
    Oh bad grief!
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe




  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by willwash View Post


    Current research into human evolution tends to confirm that in some cases, interspecies sexual activity may have been a key part of human evolution. Analysis of the species' genes in 2006 provides evidence that after human ancestors had started to diverge from chimps, interspecies mating between "proto-human" and "proto-chimps" nonetheless occurred regularly enough to change certain genes in the new gene pool:

    A new comparison of the human and chimp genomes suggests that after the two lineages separated, they may have begun interbreeding... A principal finding is that the X chromosomes of humans and chimps appear to have diverged about 1.2 million years more recently than the other chromosomes.
    The research suggests,

    There were in fact two splits between the human and chimp lineages, with the first being followed by interbreeding between the two populations and then a second split. The suggestion of a hybridization has startled paleoanthropologists, who nonetheless are 'treating the new genetic data seriously'.[15]

  7. #35
    The Soviets actually did significant research into this, presumably to make an army of soldiers with superhuman strength and subhuman intelligence.
    I too have been a close observer of the doings of the Bank of the United States...When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank...You are a den of vipers and thieves. I have determined to rout you out, and by the Eternal, I will rout you out!

    Andrew Jackson, 1834

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by willwash View Post
    The Soviets actually did significant research into this, presumably to make an army of soldiers with superhuman strength and subhuman intelligence.
    Yup, I have heard that as well. They wanted a goblin army.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe




  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    A milliner?
    No, a pretty girl.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  10. #38
    Actually, I find this very sensible.

    To wit: consider the endless depths of stupidity at which the meaner lives in the "developed" world. It is simply mind-numbing for any man with an IQ of any 2-digit value to contemplate this for even the briefest moment. Thirty seconds of it is probably enough to affect a "soft" form of lobotomy. I never go past 2-3 seconds and fear for my very soul even at those doses.

    Now, consider Bonobos. They have sex. Lots of it.

    Happy? Have sex.

    Sad? Have sex.

    Relaxed? Have sex.

    Stressed? Have sex.

    Angry? Beat the object of your ire to death, then have sex.

    Horny? Well, you know.

    Not horny? Have sex, anyway.

    Convinced? Sex.

    Skeptical? Sex.

    Love? Sex^3.

    Hungry? Sex.

    Terrified? Sex.

    In short, bonobos have sex for just about any and all reasons, no matter how seemingly dislocated the cause may be.

    Therefore, bonobos are VASTLY more intelligent than humans and should by that virtue be recognized as having full fundamental rights at least equal to those of men.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  11. #39
    U.S. Court Recognizes Chimpanzees As “Legal Persons” For First Time

    In a historic moment for animal rights, two chimpanzees, Hercules and Leo, were recognized by a New York court as legal persons Monday.

    Hercules and Leo, who are currently used for biomedical experiments at Stony Brook University on Long Island, were granted habeas corpus by Manhattan Supreme Court Justice Barbara Jaffe.

    Habeas corpus is a legal petition that detainees use to seek relief from unlawful imprisonment, and by granting habeas corpus to chimps, Jaffe endorsed the idea that they deserve the rights of a human being.

    Advocates argue great apes are highly intelligent and self-aware beings with complex emotional lives that deserve basic rights, including the right to be free of inhumane punishment.
    A similar tack was taken by lawyers in Argentina last year when a court ruled that an orangutan kept at private zoo in Buenos Aires for the past 20 years should have some basic legal rights.

    According to Nonhuman Rights Project (NhRP), which filed the habeas corpus petition in March in an effort to move the primates to a sanctuary in Florida, Jaffe’s ruling is a first for animal rights.

    Stony Brook University must now provide the court with a legally sufficient reason for keeping Leo and Hercules in captivity or the chimps will be set free. The court has scheduled the hearing for May 6, according to NhRP.

    The outcome could have a huge impact on Leo and Hercules, who have been confined at Stony Brook University for locomotion research, but whose specific conditions for the past few years are unknown, Dodo reported. It is not clear if the chimps are even allowed to interact with each another.

    NhRP hopes Leo and Hercules can be moved to Save the Chimps in Fort Pierce, Florida, where hundreds of other chimpanzees live in a habitat that is designed to replicate Africa.

    The court’s decision could also impact hundreds of other apes who are confined in labs and elsewhere.

    Similar cases have been filed for two other chimpanzees — Tommy, who lives in a cage on a used trailer lot in Gloversville, New York, and Kiko, who is held on private property in Niagara Falls — and decisions are still pending in New York’s Court of Appeals.

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/mbvd/us-cour...ws#.myVJXL0kYQ

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    The HUBRIS of the state to decide what a person is. What a effing farce.
    Whereas in a non-state system person-hood is defined by arbitrary academic divisions.
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    Rescue helicopters and ambulances are operated by charities and are plastered with corporate logos
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  14. #41
    Geez...

    Many Americans Support Equal Rights for Animals

    Nearly one-third of Americans believe animals should have the same rights as people, a recent poll finds.

    Thirty-two percent of the people surveyed believe animals and humans should have equal rights, up from 25 percent in 2008. Another 62 percent believe animals deserve some protection from harm and exploitation, but it is "still appropriate to use them for the benefit of humans." Only 3 percent believe animals don't require protection from harm and exploitation "since they are just animals," according to the poll.

    Gallup interviewed a random sample of more than 1,000 people across the United States on May 6 to 10, 2015. About half of those surveyed were asked about the protection of animals, while the other half were surveyed about the treatment of animals in various settings. The poll's margin of sampling error was 5 percentage points.

    Across all demographic groups, an increasing fraction of people support equal rights for animals, although women were more likely than men to have this view, the poll found. About 42 percent of the women polled supported full animal equality in 2015, compared with 22 percent of men. However, the percentage of men and women who support this view has increased by about the same amount since 2008 — from 35 percent to 42 percent for women, and 14 percent to 22 percent for men.

    In addition, Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents were more likely than their Republican counterparts to support complete animal equality. About 39 percent of liberal-leaning people supported that view this year, compared with 23 percent of conservative-leaning people. But the number of both Democrats and Republicans who support animal equality has increased since the last poll, according to Gallup.

    The poll found little difference between the views of younger and older Americans.

    Gallup also asked Americans how they felt about the treatment of animals in different settings. About 33 percent of people said they were "very concerned" about the use of animals in research, compared with 21 percent who were very concerned about zoo animals. About two-thirds of people said they were "very or somewhat" concerned about animals in the circus; in competitive animal sports or contests; or in research. About 46 percent of people said they were very or somewhat concerned about the treatment of household pets.

    The increasing concern for animals can be seen, for example, in the recent court case where animal-rights advocates sought personhood for chimpanzees. The Nonhuman Rights Project has argued for a writ of habeas corpus — a court order to prevent unreasonable detention — to free a pet chimpanzee named Tommy being kept in a cage in upstate New York.

    Meanwhile, views on the treatment of marine or farm animals may have been influenced by popular documentaries such as "Blackfish" and "Food, Inc.," which sought to expose truths about the treatment of whales at SeaWorld and of farm animals raised for consumption, respectively.

    Concerns about the treatment of pets may reflect campaigns to stop cruelty toward these animals by organizations such as the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals.
    http://www.livescience.com/50889-ani...pr=30478646760

  15. #42
    I want to see what happens when all the chimps have to be released. Adult chimps are vicious and tremendously strong. If all the chimps are set free, they will almost immediately be on trial for horrible crimes and then sent to prison.
    The proper concern of society is the preservation of individual freedom; the proper concern of the individual is the harmony of society.

    "Who would be free, themselves must strike the blow." - Byron

    "Who overcomes by force, hath overcome but half his foe." - Milton

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by William Tell View Post
    This is the obvious conclusion of following Darwinism to it's retarded end.

    .
    No, it isn't. The theory of the origin of species through natural selection has nothing at all to do with the legal concept of rights. And the high intelligence of some non-human animals - like dolphins - is not a theory, it is a demonstrable fact. Furthermore, given the almost absolute certainty that there are life forms in this universe that are at least as intelligent as humans means that our philosophy will someday need to confront the question of how we will treat highly intelligent non-humans.
    The proper concern of society is the preservation of individual freedom; the proper concern of the individual is the harmony of society.

    "Who would be free, themselves must strike the blow." - Byron

    "Who overcomes by force, hath overcome but half his foe." - Milton

  17. #44
    how about we start with giving humans back their rights first
    A savage barbaric tribal society where thugs parade the streets and illegally assault and murder innocent civilians, yeah that is the alternative to having police. Oh wait, that is the police

    We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home.
    - Edward R. Murrow

    ...I think we have moral obligations to disobey unjust laws, because non-cooperation with evil is as much as a moral obligation as cooperation with good. - MLK Jr.

    How to trigger a liberal: "I didn't get vaccinated."

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Warrior_of_Freedom View Post
    how about we start with giving humans back their rights first
    Anyone have some gasoline, a stake, and some rope? There's a witch needs burning.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    Geez...
    I will respond only to the headline.

    Americans are victims of their own affluence. Their circumstance has lead to this, which is pure, shrivel-brained idiocy.

    That said, I am a firm believer in treating all non-human animals with respect. If you are going to kill one, do it with swift mercy. I am all in favor of beating with iron bars those who intentionally or carelessly cause torment to our "lesser" brethren in life. It is no manly thing to cause agony to another, no matter how dangerous, fearsome, despised, or otherwise negatively or even indifferently regarded. I have risked fast-tracks to jail by drawing my weapon in public places to dispatch wounded creatures and I would stand before any jury on the planet in defiance of any law that says I am not within my rights to render such aid and mercy to another in need.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    Nearly one-third of Americans believe animals should have the same rights as people
    "See?! Didn't I tell you, Bonzo? The Equal Rights for Animals Act was a horrible idea! Now the NSA is listening in on all our calls! Oh, well ... let's just hope those stupid humans don't give us citizenship next - or else we're gonna end up paying income taxes, too ..."

    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 05-22-2015 at 06:02 PM.
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    • "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law."
      -- The Law (p. 54)
    • "Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
      -- Government (p. 99)
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    • "There are two principles that can never be reconciled - Liberty and Constraint."
      -- Harmonies of Political Economy - Book One (p. 447)

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  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    Geez...

    Many Americans Support Equal Rights for Animals

    url]

    suzanimal. Animal. Hmm.
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

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  23. #49
    Chimps are amazing creatures.

  24. #50
    pm danke so he's aware. He'll need to be more careful with his chimp concubines.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
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  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by William Tell View Post
    Oh bad grief!
    I agree with the court's decision.

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    Chimp discrimination!!!!! It's the new civil rights battle of our time. Don't be on the wrong side of history.
    We share this planet with many others. It's a conversation worth having.

  27. #53
    Every living thing has Rights. Whether we choose to acknowledge those Rights or not is a different story, as completely different as the Govt recognizing the Rights of the Individual Humans.

    So what really determines whether or nto a living thing has Rights? The best answers I can come up with are vague at best, but seem to vary on a scale depending on Levels of Self Awareness. Does a dog have Rights? To a certain extent, I think they do. Dogs seem to be less self aware of themselves than humans, despite the other glaringly obvious differences, such as not technologically advanced, opposable thumbs, or complex recordable language. The concept of Self Aware will become more complicated as Artificial Intelligence continues to advance. But I like the idea of dogs better since its a little easier to work with. On some sense, dogs do have a sense of what "Rights" are, but probably not in the same way we understand them. Ask a dog to come over and get their bellies rubbed and they cooperate, which really is cooperative and a mutual exchange of Rights by both human and dog. But if you try to kick a dog, or a dog thinks you are going to hurt it, maybe trespass, or many other things that can make a dog feel threatened, they recognize this as their way of Infringement of their Rights.

    Rights isnt just about saying what one who has Right can do to one that does not have, or is Self Aware of Rights. Rights is an equal part Responsibility. Dogs would be unaware and wholly unable to comprehend many consequences of their actions. Food, eat. Thats what we think they think. I ate someones mother or brother or other sibling. I dont believe this idea ever enters a dogs mind. Typically, it appears the indirect consequences of actions as a function of complexity of self awareness determines both Rights and Responsibility. As humans, we are aware that things we do have tremendous cumulative effects on everything we come in contact with. Cascades of indirect consequences. As a result, we tend to think we are "better" than most animals because of this perceived lack of awareness, but in reality, does that not mean we should have more Responsibility to be the caretakers of all those who do not have the ability to comprehend the indirect cascading consequences of their actions? Maybe we shouldnt base our concept of Rights as applied to living organisms on what we can understand but rather what responsibilities we are willing to take. Not poisoning lakes and water supplies because we are the only ones capable of mounting a defense against the cascade of consequences that only we can understand. Thus, we have a responsibility to achieve our goals in different ways that dont infringe on those who are not able to defend themselves. It might be easier to say we take responsibility for mans best friend by not shooting them if they are left in the house too long and relieve themselves in our homes. I think our definition of "lesser creatures" needs to evolve to replace Rights with Responsibilities. We dont burden our children with more responsibilities than they can handle, and maybe we would be better off not doing the same by not doing the same things to "lower levels of consciousness". Yet, we do. We expect every other organism on the planet to deal with our roads and trash and pollution and consequences of our "modern living" at their expense. We throw out trash and expect "lower life forms" to turn our waste into something that is only considered to be of value if we can use it again.

    The less consciousness we have, the less responsibilities we should expect to be taken. Dogs are not aware of the financial costs of feeding them or providing for them. Mostly, concepts of money dont seem to apply to any animal but humans. Thus, they are free of the responsibility of finances altogether. The "lesser organisms" on this planet seem to only be measured in terms of value by what either society or the ecosystem can take from them without recognizing any actual worth of existence for the sake of existing. This should be obvious when we look at the way people treat other people. Women are perceived by many (not all) men as only having a sexual or reproductive value while many women (not all) only perceive men as walking unlimited sources of labor and wealth; both of which lead to the concept of Human Disposability. The way we treat all of the "lesser creatures" will eventually manifest in the way we treat other people. "Its just a dumb fish". Is that really true? Maybe it is, but maybe we shouldnt be trying to burden their existence with our perceived values of their existence to begin with. Not through the Rights that we project animals as having, but because we as the "superior species"choose to behave more responsibly. And again, it is this level of responsibility we have mostly chosen to abandon because of some perceived lack of laws to demand we show respect. We are not behaving in a way that is mutually beneficial to other life far too often. The creation and imposition of Laws only occurs when we have failed to take any degree of personal responsibility. On some level, dogs kind of know this. Dogs dont need laws to make them nurse and protect their offspring, while for some reason, so many humans do.

    But let me get to the real issue. Do we even need to have the Law to recognize any sort of "Constitutional Right" for not only Chips, but any animals? Maybe we would be better off taking responsibility for our actions by finding ways to achieve what ever our goals are in a way that is as cooperative and mutually beneficial to all species, laws be damned. Just because a law may say it is not only lawful, legal and ethical to kick a dog does not mean that kicking dogs arbitrarily is the type of behaviour we should be embracing. Yet, far too many of us do. As a species, it is humans that are failing the rest of the planet, including ourselves. And yes, this is all highly and easily debatable, especially when we consider "Rights" of animals we use as a food source. So, um, food for thought.
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  28. #54
    Is it time that chimps are given legal rights? What about elephants, dolphins and whales?

    This morning New York’s Supreme Court will hear arguments over whether chimpanzees deserve to be given legal rights - specifically two chimps named Hercules and Leo being held in captivity by Stony Brook University in New York State for use in an anatomical research programme.

    For the sake of posterity, the case is “Nonhuman Rights Project v. Stanley, New York State Supreme Court, New York County, No. 152736-2015”.

    That’s a joke, right?

    No. The Nonhuman Rights Project, a group founded by Steven Wise, an attorney and animal rights activist, is deadly serious. And the question of whether the most intelligent non-human animals should have a legal status beyond mere objects has generated significant legal debate in recent years.

    But how can a chimp have rights if it can’t even speak?

    Nor can some mentally ill people, or unborn children for that matter. But they still have legal rights.

    So which “right” do they want chimps to be granted?

    Specifically, the right to liberty – or “bodily freedom” – ie not to be stuck in a cage, or a science lab.

    So if the court decides in their favour do the chimps simply walk off into Manhattan?

    No. But they do get to go to a sanctuary in Florida to live out their days in as much freedom as is practically possible.
    This all sounds pretty radical. Where would it end?

    That’s the argument of Christopher Coulston, the New York Assistant Attorney General who is defending the university in this case.

    He has warned the court against a decision that would set a precedent “for the release of other animals ... housed at a zoo, in an educational institution, on a farm, or owned as a domesticated pet”, and leave New York mired in litigation forever more.

    So they want to free the cows, pigs and chickens too?

    No. The Nonhuman Rights Project says only animals who demonstrate “clear scientific evidence of complex cognitive abilities [such] as self-awareness and autonomy” should be granted rights. So pigs and ducks are out of luck.

    Dolphins, whales and elephants – who like chimps have been shown to communicate, remember, mourn their dead and play tricks on each other - would qualify.


    And is there any legal, as opposed to scientific, basis for these claims for chimps’ rights?

    Mr Wise, in arguing for the “personhood” of chimps is drawing on the 18th century case of Somerset v. Stewart (1772) in which James Somerset, a man who was captured and enslaved in Africa, was freed after anti-slavery campaigners filed a writ of habeas corpus against his illegal detention.

    Somerset was a man, of course, not a chimp. But Mr Wise makes the point that it wasn’t that long ago that women, or enslaved Africans were not given “legal personhood” but were treated as mere chattels – property to be exploited, like land or livestock

    So does the case have any chance?

    It seems doubtful. Previous cases filed by Mr Wise against the owners of chimps named Tommy and Kiko have been rejected by lower courts, although those decisions are being appealed.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...nd-whales.html

  29. #55
    Extending rights only to animals that act like humans is discrimination.

    Some animals that act dumb are actually smart, and all animals possess the instinct of survival. If an animal acts like it wants to live when faced with danger the it should be treated equally as other animals.

    and while we are on the subject these new persons should have a right to basic healthcare whether they can afford it or not.

  30. #56
    The gorillas are planning an appeal.



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  32. #57
    Easy to say for a country that doesn't have many (if any) dangerous animals.

    New Zealand Now Recognizes ALL Animals As Sentient Beings!

    New Zealand has just set a great example to the world by recognizing what animal lovers have known forever- that our furry friends are as sentient as we are, and (obviously, dur) they have feelings just like we do. It’s a theme we have covered time and again here at True Activist, but this landmark ruling by NZ is the first time this shift in perception and policy has been extended to all animals, not just chimpanzees, orangutans, or dolphins.

    The Animal Welfare Amendment Bill, passed last month, aims to make it easier to prosecute people in animal cruelty cases, as well as banning animal testing and research, and making all hunting, capture or ill-treatment of any wild animal illegal.

    Animal rights activists have celebrated the decision. “To say that animals are sentient is to state explicitly that they can experience both positive and negative emotions, including pain and distress,” said Dr Virginia Williams, chair of the National Animal Ethics Advisory Committee. “The explicitness is what is new and marks another step along the animal welfare journey.”

    New Zealand Veterinary Association president Dr Steve Merchant said the bill greater clarity, transparency and enforceability of animal welfare laws, according to the country’s regional newspaper the Nelson Mail.

    “Expectations on animal welfare have been rapidly changing, and practices that were once commonplace for pets and farm stock are no longer acceptable or tolerated,” he said. “The bill brings legislation in line with our nation’s changing attitude on the status of animals in society.”

    You can read the entire Bill here. Let’s hope the rest of the world follows suit!
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  33. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    Easy to say for a country that doesn't have many (if any) dangerous animals.



    Read More: http://www.trueactivist.com/new-zeal...aign=antimedia
    They have more sheep than people. Can the sheep vote now ..........like here?

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by William Tell View Post
    3,2,1 Legalize marriage between different species! you know that crap is coming
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  35. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Warrior_of_Freedom View Post
    how about we start with giving humans back their rights first
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

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