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Thread: Chris Kyle, Clint Eastwood, and a Film Trailer Heinrich Himmler Would Admire

  1. #1

    Exclamation Chris Kyle, Clint Eastwood, and a Film Trailer Heinrich Himmler Would Admire

    Chris Kyle, Clint Eastwood, and a Film Trailer Heinrich Himmler Would Admire

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog...-would-admire/

    William Norman Grigg

    Clint Eastwood is one of the most gifted filmmakers in the history of the medium. Bradley Cooper is an extraordinarily capable actor. On the evidence of the teaser trailer for “American Sniper,” Eastwood and Cooper — who stars in the title role, and served as a producer — have produced a masterpiece of War Party propaganda.

    Cooper stars as the late Chris Kyle, generally (and, perhaps, unreliably) considered to be the most lethal sniper in US military history.

    The teaser clip shows Kyle and his spotter doing overwatch as a Marine patrol occupies a devastated Iraqi neighborhood, kicking in doors in pursuit of local residents who might pose problems for the foreign military force that had invaded their country in an act of criminal aggression.

    Kyle notices a woman and a young child emerging from a building. The woman hands the child an object that appears to be a grenade. As Kyle draws bead on the youngster, the viewer is shown a brief montage of scenes of the sniper at home with his lovely wife and beautiful children, briefly interrupted by a shot of Kyle surrounded by flag-draped coffins.

    “They’ll fry you if you’re wrong,” the spotter says as Kyle’s haunted eyes focus on his target, and his finger prepares to pull the trigger.

    The audience is prompted to empathize with the anguished and reluctant sniper, who is caught in a horrible dilemma.

    For that dilemma to exist, the sniper would have to face irreconcilable moral absolutes. That is not the case here: Neither he nor the troops he is protecting had any right to be where they were, and the Iraqis in that neighborhood — including the child — had every right to use any means at their disposal to force the invaders to leave.


    An authentic patriot would instinctively sympathize with the child who was defending his neighborhood, rather than the sniper who was poised to murder him. However, the scene is engineered to elicit a nationalist response from the viewer — that is, one informed by the conceit that American lives are innately more valuable than those of Iraqis, and that it is an act of irredeemable evil for an Iraqi to kill an American invader.

    That was certainly Kyle’s view, at least as it was expressed in the version of this incident (which occurred in Nasiriyah in March, 2003) found in his memoir.

    “I looked through the scope,” Kyle recalled. “The only people who were moving were [a] woman and maybe a child or two nearby. I watched the troops pull up. Ten young, proud Marines in uniform got out of their vehicles and gathered for a foot patrol. As the Americans organized, the woman took something from beneath her clothes, and yanked at it. She’d set a grenade.”

    Kyle shot the woman twice, displaying none of the cinematic anguish depicted in the trailer. The woman was the first of the 255 “kills” recorded in Kyle’s career as a government employee who specialized in killing people from a distance.

    “It was my duty to shoot, and I don’t regret it,” Kyle insisted, describing the woman as “blinded by evil” because she “just wanted Americans dead” for reasons he apparently couldn’t understand, or wouldn’t acknowledge. “My shots saved several Americans, whose lives were clearly worth more than that woman’s twisted soul.”

    Unfiltered nationalistic bigotry of that variety plays well with the Fox News demographic, but it makes for problematic cinema. Even audiences who share those prejudices would find it difficult to sympathize with a “hero” who expressed such sentiments candidly.

    Accordingly, Cooper was transformed into an uncanny physical Doppelganger of the late sniper, while the character was re-purposed as a tragic figure who heroically overcame his instinctive reluctance to kill on behalf of a grand and glorious historic purpose (which in practical terms meant clearing away any obstacles to the rise of the most recent CIA-abetted “threat,” ISIS).

    As Hannah Ahrendt might say, we’ve seen this movie before.

    “What stuck in the minds of these men who had become murderers was simply the notion of being involved in something historic, grandiose, unique (`a great task that occurs once in two thousand years’), which must therefore be difficult to bear,” wrote Ahrendt in her study Eichmann in Jerusalem, referring to the SS. “This was important, because the murderers were not sadists or killers by nature; on the contrary, a systematic effort was made to weed out all those who derived physical pleasure from what they did….”

    The problem confronted by the National Socialist State’s hired killers, Ahrendt continued, “was how to overcome not so much their conscience as the animal pity by which all normal men are affected in the presence of physical suffering. The trick used by Himmler — who apparently was rather strongly afflicted by these instinctive reactions himself — was very simple and probably very effective; it consisted in turning these instincts around, as it were, in directing them toward the self. So that instead of saying: What horrible things I did to people!, the murderers would be able to say: What horrible things I had to watch in the pursuance of my duties, how heavily the task weighed upon my shoulders!”

    Cooper’s performance is meant to give cinematic expression to this inversion of pity — and to impart that attitude to the audience.
    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 10-04-2014 at 12:30 PM.
    “Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder.” - Arnold Toynbee



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  3. #2

  4. #3
    Thanks for posting this. Outta reps for ya. I had seen the trailer the other day and was going to post about it. Glad Will Grigg took a shot at it and it makes for a good first post on the subject.

  5. #4
    Piece of garbage.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe




  6. #5
    While I agree with Grigg 99% of the time, I have an difficult time wrapping my mind around the idea that Iraqis (or anyone) have a right to use any means to win a war, defensive or otherwise, and an even more difficult time understanding how giving a child a grenade for a suicide attack is ever justified.

    While Americans had no right to be in Iraq and locals are justified trying to remove them by force, mothers giving their children grenades to blow themselves up isnt cool.

  7. #6
    LibForestPaul
    Member

    Quote Originally Posted by Cutlerzzz View Post
    While I agree with Grigg 99% of the time, I have an difficult time wrapping my mind around the idea that Iraqis (or anyone) have a right to use any means to win a war, defensive or otherwise, and an even more difficult time understanding how giving a child a grenade for a suicide attack is ever justified.

    While Americans had no right to be in Iraq and locals are justified trying to remove them by force, mothers giving their children grenades to blow themselves up isnt cool.
    When the war comes to your street, we'll see.

  8. #7
    This is going to be a scumbag movie. I'm not interested.

    Regarding the whole child and grenade issue, imagine a group of armed robbers break into someone's house, and the occupants use the child as a suicide bomber against the armed robbers. Yes, the occupants are morally wrong for doing that, but that doesn't mean the armed robbers have some kind of "right" to kill the child.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Cutlerzzz View Post
    While I agree with Grigg 99% of the time, I have an difficult time wrapping my mind around the idea that Iraqis (or anyone) have a right to use any means to win a war, defensive or otherwise, and an even more difficult time understanding how giving a child a grenade for a suicide attack is ever justified.

    While Americans had no right to be in Iraq and locals are justified trying to remove them by force, mothers giving their children grenades to blow themselves up isnt cool.

    And just that fast the entire propaganda value of a film is justified. You have just conflated a scene in a movie with reality and used it to indict an entire nation of people you are being conditioned to see as an enemy.



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  11. #9
    I remember when the book came out (and the movie) "Sole Survivor" about the Navy SEALs who were on a mission in Afghanistan and came upon a goat herder and his son. My neighbor had told me about the book. They let the man and his son go and the Taliban attacked them and only one survived. My neighbor, who supported both wars, said "Of course they couldn't kill them because they would have been crucified by the liberal media." Huh? And my neighbor goes to church every Sunday.
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  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    I remember when the book came out (and the movie) "Sole Survivor" about the Navy SEALs who were on a mission in Afghanistan and came upon a goat herder and his son. My neighbor had told me about the book. They let the man and his son go and the Taliban attacked them and only one survived.
    That's why these wars will never be won, we are not wanted there.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    My neighbor, who supported both wars, said "Of course they couldn't kill them because they would have been crucified by the liberal media." Huh? And my neighbor goes to church every Sunday.
    And that is one of the reasons I do not attend church, even though I am a Christian, and am appalled by the growing secularization of society
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe




  13. #11
    I always love a good sniper movie. Definitely gonna see this.

    ETA: just saw the trailer. Thsts some deep, philosophical $#@!! And the gun hes using looked badass too
    Last edited by TheTexan; 10-04-2014 at 03:38 PM.
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  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by libertyjam View Post
    And just that fast the entire propaganda value of a film is justified. You have just conflated a scene in a movie with reality and used it to indict an entire nation of people you are being conditioned to see as an enemy.
    I really doubt you can expand on that.

  15. #13
    Snipers used to be thought of as worse than $#@!. Now they're heroes, along with zit-faced $#@!os sitting in air-conditioned rooms killing people with drones.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    I remember when the book came out (and the movie) "Sole Survivor" about the Navy SEALs who were on a mission in Afghanistan and came upon a goat herder and his son. My neighbor had told me about the book. They let the man and his son go and the Taliban attacked them and only one survived. My neighbor, who supported both wars, said "Of course they couldn't kill them because they would have been crucified by the liberal media." Huh? And my neighbor goes to church every Sunday.
    Are you talkng about "lone survivor"? I saw that movie with my friend, I hated it. I think its a shame that your neighbor won't be excommunicated from his church. Modern American churches suck for the most part, I'm not sure how long I'll be able to stand them.

    Quote Originally Posted by William Tell View Post
    That's why these wars will never be won, we are not wanted there.


    And that is one of the reasons I do not attend church, even though I am a Christian, and am appalled by the growing secularization of society
    The Bible commands us to regularly meet together, but sometimes I wonder who the true Christians are. I have a hard time blaming you.
    Quote Originally Posted by green73 View Post
    Snipers used to be thought of as worse than $#@!. Now they're heroes, along with zit-faced $#@!os sitting in air-conditioned rooms killing people with drones.
    This.

  17. #15
    I wonder if they'll show him using kung fu on a governor?

    Anyone who believed that liar and his self glorification... probably either voted for Romney or Obama in the last election.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    I wonder if they'll show him using kung fu on a governor?

    Anyone who believed that liar and his self glorification... probably either voted for Romney or Obama in the last election.
    Yep...



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  20. #17
    I met a couple of snipers when I was involved with the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps. I learned later that in order to become a sniper you have to take a psychological test that assesses your sociopathic tendencies. Obviously, it takes a certain kind of person to be able to mentally handle killing without a blink of an eye, and on demand, and then go about your day.
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    If anything, this situation has proved the government is nothing but a dictatorship backed by deadly force... no different than the dictatorships in the banana republics, just more polished and cleverly propagandized.
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  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFanatic View Post
    The Bible commands us to regularly meet together, but sometimes I wonder who the true Christians are. I have a hard time blaming you.
    I would love to have some like minded people to meet with. As it is, I have most of meaningful discussions on religion online, or with family and friends from the political world etc
    .
    I'm not so arrogant to think I am better than most people near me, but I really have very little in common with most church goers. I don't know of any denomination I would agree with anyway, because I am just a guy with a Bible. I would spend my whole time in church being ticked at the pastor, like the last time I went to a normal mainstream Sunday service. The Pastor was speaking on the 10 Commandments. That particular Sunday, he was talking about "Thou Shalt Not Steal" and "Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery"
    He totally BLEW the definitions of both Adultery, and Stealing in my opinion. As far as stealing goes, he said "Cheating on your taxes is stealing" Yeah, that's right, he said not giving someone your money makes you a thief

    His position on Adultery, was far to broad in my opinion. Adultery as I understand it is taking another man's wife. He seemed like one of these guys who thinks any sexual activity besides a one man one woman mainstream marriage is Adultery. I am not condoning fornication for example, but I don't like painting with broad brushes. Nor do I buy into teachings that would make some of the patriarchs guilty of sins which the Bible never states they committed.

    Basically, I am weird, and a bit of a nitpicker, especially on the subject of nitpickers
    Last edited by William Tell; 10-04-2014 at 08:16 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe




  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by William Tell View Post
    Basically, I am weird, and a bit of a nitpicker, especially on the subject of nitpickers
    I think you're the only one on RPFs who fits that definition, you weirdo.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    I think you're the only one on RPFs who fits that definition, you weirdo.
    Which? nitpicker, or weird?
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe




  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by William Tell View Post
    Which, nitpicker, or weird?
    Neither. We're all fine upstanding normal people who would never dream of nitpicking a subject to death.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    Neither. We're all fine upstanding normal people who would never dream of nitpicking a subject to death.
    That makes me feel warm and fuzzy, I am glad to be in such a nurturing environment
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe




  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by William Tell View Post
    I would love to have some like minded people to meet with. As it is, I have most of meaningful discussions on religion online, or with family and friends from the political world etc
    .
    I'm not so arrogant to think I am better than most people near me, but I really have very little in common with most church goers. I don't know of any denomination I would agree with anyway, because I am just a guy with a Bible. I would spend my whole time in church being ticked at the pastor, like the last time I went to a normal mainstream Sunday service. The Pastor was speaking on the 10 Commandments. That particular Sunday, he was talking about "Thou Shalt Not Steal" and "Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery"
    He totally BLEW the definitions of both Adultery, and Stealing in my opinion. As far as stealing goes, he said "Cheating on your taxes is stealing" Yeah, that's right, he said not giving someone your money makes you a thief

    His position on Adultery, was far to broad in my opinion. Adultery as I understand it is taking another man's wife. He seemed like one of these guys who thinks any sexual activity besides a one man one woman mainstream marriage is Adultery. I am not condoning fornication for example, but I don't like painting with broad brushes. Nor do I buy into teachings that would make some of the patriarchs guilty of sins which the Bible never states they committed.

    Basically, I am weird, and a bit of a nitpicker, especially on the subject of nitpickers
    Just out of curiosity, what's your opinion on the whole "render unto caesar" passage? I don't think there's any way its a command to pay taxes, since Caesar does not rightfully own your money.

    I agree with much of what you say here. I will note that while I do think polygamous relationships are not ideal and fall short of God's ideal standard, I do NOT believe they are adulterous. I had an argument with my mom about this awhile back, at first she said of course they were adulterous and later she was uncertain. I don't think David taking Abigail as his wife (he already had Michael) was morally in the same category as David taking Bathsheba when she was Uriah's wife. And I certainly agree with you on the best. I always cringe a little when I hear pastors mention taxation even in passing, not because I believe that cheating on ones taxes is a good idea (in practice I think its a bad idea most often, and may lead one to be sinfully dishonest) but because it is always implied that government actually has the right to take what it takes, when it doesn't. The Bible repetatively condemns tax collectors as well.

    Its really, really hard not to feel morally superior to warmongers, and people who think not paying taxes is "Theft" but that taking money at gunpoint is morally acceptable.

  27. #24
    Sounds like it was made to be parodied - only with SWAT instead of this sniper.

    -t



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  29. #25
    Ventura should have filed his lawsuit after this movie cashed in.
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  30. #26
    It will be interesting to watch this new (propaganda?) movie and particularly view this preview scene in its full context.

    It's not a war, it's just another f'n war. Monsters play, things get broken and people die.

    If that sniper had all the necessary wind/range/drop compensations set up and a positive visual like that "el Hubble" cinematography telephoto shot clearly depicted in the preview clip, a kill shot should have been immediately directed right to that "grenade". KaBOOM. No apology required.

    If that mil trained sniper's consciousness had somehow become "tainted" and was way more sympathetic to the "other side" (resident natives) than his own chain of command "those evil mil invaders", he could have simply begun picking off his own team members for a while before turning overdue attention to himself and blowing his own tormented brain right out of its case. That would demonstrate that his mil-gov killbot sniper training to "simply follow orders and kill the enemy" was actually only ~50% effective.

    It all sounds like situations/decisions to avoid getting involved with in the first place.
    Bring the troops home.
    Just say no to the next "war".

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFanatic View Post
    Just out of curiosity, what's your opinion on the whole "render unto caesar" passage? I don't think there's any way its a command to pay taxes, since Caesar does not rightfully own your money.
    The rendering statement by Jesus was in dry humor.

    Caesar was considered "God" by his people and the image of Caesar on the coin portrayed him as such.

    When Jesus said render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, it was with His personal understanding that NOTHING was Caesar's; everything belongs to the God who presides in Heaven and not to Caesar.
    There is no spoon.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    The rendering statement by Jesus was in dry humor.

    Caesar was considered "God" by his people and the image of Caesar on the coin portrayed him as such.

    When Jesus said render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, it was with His personal understanding that NOTHING was Caesar's; everything belongs to the God who presides in Heaven and not to Caesar.
    I like this argument

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFanatic View Post
    I like this argument
    Also, if they had followed God's commands, the Israelites would never have been ruled by a King, let alone Caesar. This is made extremely clear in the Old Testament. Any Christian who opposes going back to a more God fearing society, including in politics, is silly at best.

    We don't have a Caesar, the Colonists kicked his butt a few hundred years ago, and gave us the Declaration of Independence. I see no reason to go back under the British crown. And I have yet to hear of God commanding us too.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe




  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by William Tell View Post
    I would love to have some like minded people to meet with. As it is, I have most of meaningful discussions on religion online, or with family and friends from the political world etc
    .
    I'm not so arrogant to think I am better than most people near me, but I really have very little in common with most church goers. I don't know of any denomination I would agree with anyway, because I am just a guy with a Bible. I would spend my whole time in church being ticked at the pastor, like the last time I went to a normal mainstream Sunday service. The Pastor was speaking on the 10 Commandments. That particular Sunday, he was talking about "Thou Shalt Not Steal" and "Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery"
    He totally BLEW the definitions of both Adultery, and Stealing in my opinion. As far as stealing goes, he said "Cheating on your taxes is stealing" Yeah, that's right, he said not giving someone your money makes you a thief

    His position on Adultery, was far to broad in my opinion. Adultery as I understand it is taking another man's wife. He seemed like one of these guys who thinks any sexual activity besides a one man one woman mainstream marriage is Adultery. I am not condoning fornication for example, but I don't like painting with broad brushes. Nor do I buy into teachings that would make some of the patriarchs guilty of sins which the Bible never states they committed.

    Basically, I am weird, and a bit of a nitpicker, especially on the subject of nitpickers
    For me there are only 2 Great Commandments:

    Love God with all your might, mind, & strength.
    Love your neighbor as yourself.

    All the Law had been fulfilled in Jesus' coming- leaving only these 2 commandments to live by.
    There is no spoon.

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