Senior Assaulted at Applebees After Politely Correcting 26 year old

[Origanalist]

What if it's the other way around? What if an elderly person starts beating a young man with a cane? If a twenty-year-old was punched by an eighty-year-old in a situation otherwise identical (the old guy was swearing, etc.), should he be executed?

Oh stop.

[navy-vet]

This reminds me of last week when I took my dog to the veterinarian. I was waiting with my dog when a man came in the door with his little female Rottweiler. To my amazement, he pulled straight up on the leash, picking up the dog by it's collar and then dropping her back on the floor again at the same time saying, "Stupid dog." I thought to myself, if I see him do that one more time, I'm going to have to invite him outside to have a discussion about how to treat a dog.

That guy shouldn't have had a dog in the first place. Just because we have dominion over the animals, it doesn't mean we have license to treat them like crap.

Doc, you just reminded me of one of my favorite scenes of all times!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LGFFZ66w0w

[navy-vet]

Actually, I think most of them do, pretty sure they are just reacting to my extreme radical position, which makes them display contrast in the other direction.

That's encouraging gunny, and I realize that you know em better than I do.

[Origanalist]

I don't know, fellows, but if I were on the scene as it happened, I can pretty much guarantee you I would not be killing Sawyer. Maybe that makes me lose tough-guy points in your book. Oh well, I guess.

At least one of you has been employed in a professional killing operation. I would think that you, at least, would know what death is and thus be a little more circumspect in dealing it out. But, to each his own. I'm just telling you: I wouldn't kill him, because I don't think he deserves to die. I think some of what has been said in this thread is loony-tunes and over-the-top. But I tend to be pretty conservative about killing people. Killing people is awfully permanent. So, no tough-guy points for me.

I have to agree with you there, a good ass kicking, I mean a GOOD ass kicking is what's called for here. The poor dear probably just never had any sense knocked into him.

[Dr.3D]

Doc, you just reminded me of one of my favorite scenes of all times!

Well, that little pup was so sweet and she was miserable being with that nasty man. I felt like crying for her. She was doing everything she could to please the guy and he still treated her like dirt. Makes my blood boil.

[Origanalist]

What's so special about punching an 80 year old versus a 70 year old? 60? 50? [snip]

I'm over half way to 60, there is a huge difference. I'm still stocking, hanging and finishing sheetrock, I don't think I'll be doing that at 80.

[Christian Liberty]

I don't think it should be a LAW of any kind, nor accomplished by any agents of the State. But at 26 if he thinks it's OK to land a haymaker on the face of an 80 year old man I'm not going to give a damn if the kid ends up dead before the cops get there. There are just certain things that demonstrates an evil soul, and this is one of them.

Am I speaking from outrage? absolutely. Would I actually pull the trigger? No idea, and I kinda doubt it. However, I do think this kind of crime is way worse than just simple assault. At that age, even a MINOR injury could afflict the man for literally the rest of his life, and that's if he doesn't get 10 years shaved off his life from this turdburger making him susceptible to an aneurysm.

Maybe I'm just from a different generation, but if there was ever a fitting target for the moniker "savage," this guy is it. As far as I am concerned, literally the ONLY redemption for something like this is to come to Jesus and be Born Again, and frankly it'd be a loooong road because as I see it he's worse than Moses the murderer, because at least Moses's crime appears superficially just.

No, I don't think the government should be involved in any way, but if the crowd (assuming there WAS a crowd) had risen up and beat this animal to death I would not even feel a little sympathetic. Indeed, had that happened, I would actually feel like there was still hope for America.

You just don't do that crap. A kid like this socking an 80 year old, and particularly hard enough to bruise his own knuckles.... To me it's attempted murder at a minimum. Hell, I deserve death for any number of tiny violations of God's Law. This guy is on a whole 'nuther level. this action is emblematic of America's social collapse. HE is 'why we can't have good things.' He is why we have a copsucking society of collectivist sheep. Every continued breath he draws is an unwarranted burden on the rest of the human race - after all, the non-animal people may need that oxygen one day.

Gunny, if you DID pull the trigger, I'd have no choice but to say "see, this is what happens to people that join the military... they completely and totally lose their sense of proportionality because they have been in a war zone."

Have you ever considered that this very line of thinking could be WHY we have militarized police these days? Mind you, I know you said you probably wouldn't pull the trigger. Perhaps that is because you are actually a Christian and most of the people who fight in those wars aren't. But its this EXACT mentality that leads to militarized policing.

I respect you a lot and consider you a hero for the liberty movement, but I'm having a hard time NOT connecting your time in the military with your comments here. And I've been called "bloodthirsty" on these forums before, so don't think I'm accusing you from a pacifist POV.

[Origanalist]

Ya he has done some good for the movement, but how can any one forget he is an ex-marine?

I know, WTH??? Ex- Air Force guys are much more kosher.

[Christian Liberty]

Actually, I think most of them do, pretty sure they are just reacting to my extreme radical position, which makes them display contrast in the other direction.

This kind of reminds me (I know its not the same issue) of when I argue against World War II as a "just war"... I pretty much feel like I have to preface "I know Hitler was an awful guy" lest anyone misunderstand... and even when I do it always sounds somewhat hollow and I always feel like someone is indirectly accusing me of undermining Hitler's crimes... even then I don't think the war was justified. An assassination team to take the murderous scumbag out? Sure if that would have worked. A total war that left millions dead? (not to mention the people who were enslaved directly to fight and indirectly to pay for it.) Heck no.

I think that punching an old guy in the face is a SCUM thing to do. But unlike murdering someone, I don't think it deserves anything close to the death penalty. A good butt-whipping that you'll eventually recover from? Sure, I could live with that, I couldn't MORALLY justify it but I'd feel like justice was done. But execution? Yeah, that seems really over the top to me. To your credit, at least you aren't accusing the rest of us of not caring about old guys getting beat up. +rep.

[puppetmaster]

Of a bar?

I run a casino and yes we tell them to hit the road if they are spouting vulgarity. We ask them to cool it but if it continues they are escorted out. An occasional $#@! and damn etc does not count, it is the f-bombs and mf etc that we object to. I cuss but I cool it in mixed company and in public places. I was taught that way. Catch me when I am working on my truck and I would make a sailor blush. .

[kahless]

wow....so many in here don't seem to get it, that striking an 80 year old man is just so wrong on so many levels.

Mind blowing that some do not seem to realize at that age their bones are brittle-weak and/or the high probability that they are on medications like blood thinners for example that complicate matters. So they are at high risk of permanent brain injury up to and including death from a blow to the head.

[navy-vet]

Mind blowing that some do not seem to realize at that age their bones are brittle-weak and/or the high probability that they are on medications like blood thinners for example that complicate matters. So they are at high risk of permanent brain injury up to and including death from a blow to the head.

Precisely, why it is so grievous to me. Such a blow can easily lead to the death of a man of eighty. It may not be immediate either but down the road a bit due to a slow sub dural bleed in the brain. That is one reason that falls are the leading cause of death in the elderly.
I certainly don't advocate the execution of the asshat but at the least he deserves some jail time and maybe a few hours of service in a nursing home washing some butts of brain dead seniors. And of course, paying for the old guys medical expenses etc. And of course a charge of murder should he succumb to this assault.

[navy-vet]

Well, that little pup was so sweet and she was miserable being with that nasty man. I felt like crying for her. She was doing everything she could to please the guy and he still treated her like dirt. Makes my blood boil.

ah man, I could thrash a guy like that within an inch of his life just so I could thrash him again once he recovered. Those kind aren't people, they are demons disguised as people. I think that some of them are born to play the role while others have traded their souls and became one. Only thing that makes any sense to me.

[RonPaulIsGreat]

[fr33]

I don't know, fellows, but if I were on the scene as it happened, I can pretty much guarantee you I would not be killing Sawyer. Maybe that makes me lose tough-guy points in your book. Oh well, I guess.

At least one of you has been employed in a professional killing operation. I would think that you, at least, would know what death is and thus be a little more circumspect in dealing it out. But, to each his own. I'm just telling you: I wouldn't kill him, because I don't think he deserves to die. I think some of what has been said in this thread is loony-tunes and over-the-top. But I tend to be pretty conservative about killing people. Killing people is awfully permanent. So, no tough-guy points for me.

A punch to the face can be death to the victim. It happens. Given the age difference the circumstances involved, yeah that 80 year old is justified in blowing that young man's head off.

[phill4paul]

Here's the asshat...

[Origanalist]

Here's the asshat...

He looks cute in orange.

[acesfull]

I wouldn't be surprised if the young drunk bully had a history of violence or some drunk and disorderly chargers. Normal people just don't punch older folks in the face.

Being drunk is no excuse for violence. He deserves the maximum sentence allowed under the law.. Hopefully he will be someone bitch for a long time...

My .02

Regards

Acesfull

[Christian Liberty]

Precisely, why it is so grievous to me. Such a blow can easily lead to the death of a man of eighty. It may not be immediate either but down the road a bit due to a slow sub dural bleed in the brain. That is one reason that falls are the leading cause of death in the elderly.
I certainly don't advocate the execution of the asshat but at the least he deserves some jail time and maybe a few hours of service in a nursing home washing some butts of brain dead seniors. And of course, paying for the old guys medical expenses etc. And of course a charge of murder should he succumb to this assault.

I'd say it was manslaughter if the man died since there was no intent to kill. But I would otherwise agree with you, with the exception of the fact that I don't really believe in jails as a form of punishment. But he should definitely have to pay for all of the guys medical bills, twofold at the least.

A punch to the face can be death to the victim. It happens. Given the age difference the circumstances involved, yeah that 80 year old is justified in blowing that young man's head off.

If he felt the need to do that to defend himself, I'd agree. But I'm glad that didn't happen, even though the kid is a scumbag.

[William Tell]

Mind you, I DO think that anyone with a badge that commits ANY violent crime should be executed, but that's because any of their violent actions has an implicit death threat behind them, not for any other reason.

That seems silly, and hypocritical, unless you believe all confirmed non government gang members, and normal citizens who commit any violent crimes while in possession of a weapon should also be executed. Unless you think making a death threat is reason to execute any individual regardless of uniform, you have a double standard. Cops should be treated the same in a court of law, as anyone who commits the same crime as them. Self defense is a different issue, as we all have the right to use the force necessary to defend ourselves from violence.

I can understand wanting to hold cops to a higher standard, but I think ancaps habit of considering agents of the 'state' to be less human than any other 'gang member' as they would call them. Shows a great hypocrisy, and double standard. A justice loving Constitutionalist, would say punishment should be equal with everybody. But many (not all) Ancaps and NeoCons are allied in the belief that certain 'gang members' and or 'terrorists' are essentially sub-human. The only real difference is which 'gang members' they think should be punished for association.

[JK/SEA]

Here's the asshat...

Send em to Military Academy College. He'd make a fine Police Officer.

[PaulConventionWV]

Why do you hate old people????

Lol are you serious?

Or is this like "Why do you hate 'murikuh?"

[PaulConventionWV]

I'm over half way to 60, there is a huge difference. I'm still stocking, hanging and finishing sheetrock, I don't think I'll be doing that at 80.

That's not the point.

Do you see the problem punishing people who are "old"? You have to define "old". At what age does it become acceptable enough to punch people in order to not be killed as a result?

[PaulConventionWV]

Mind blowing that some do not seem to realize at that age their bones are brittle-weak and/or the high probability that they are on medications like blood thinners for example that complicate matters. So they are at high risk of permanent brain injury up to and including death from a blow to the head.

That's part of the reason why it's wrong to punch an old person, yes. But that still doesn't even come close to deserving the death penalty.

[Dr.3D]

There would be a lot less idiots punching people if every time it happened, the one doing the punching, died. I can imagine how nice it would be to live in a world where there were no idiots going around punching people.

[Todd]

wow....so many in here don't seem to get it, that striking an 80 year old man is just so wrong on so many levels.

You can tell alot about a person by how they treat the weak. a 250 lb man over a 110 lb woman. A person torturing a puppy. Someone beating an infant. A man in his physical prime punching any elderly person.

[Christian Liberty]

That seems silly, and hypocritical, unless you believe all confirmed non government gang members, and normal citizens who commit any violent crimes while in possession of a weapon should also be executed. Unless you think making a death threat is reason to execute any individual regardless of uniform, you have a double standard. Cops should be treated the same in a court of law, as anyone who commits the same crime as them. Self defense is a different issue, as we all have the right to use the force necessary to defend ourselves from violence.

I can understand wanting to hold cops to a higher standard, but I think ancaps habit of considering agents of the 'state' to be less human than any other 'gang member' as they would call them. Shows a great hypocrisy, and double standard. A justice loving Constitutionalist, would say punishment should be equal with everybody. But many (not all) Ancaps and NeoCons are allied in the belief that certain 'gang members' and or 'terrorists' are essentially sub-human. The only real difference is which 'gang members' they think should be punished for association.

I understand your point, and you may be right, but I do want to clarify a bit. I don't think cops are "sub-human." I believe it would be wrong to torture one, for any reason whatsoever. I don't go around calling them "pigs" and so forth (I am not saying I have NEVER done this, but I don't make a habit out of it.) I am, as I have mentioned, on friendly terms with one particular cop in our church.

There are two major differences I see between cops and "regular" gang members, one distinction which is beneficial to the cop, and one that is not. For one thing, most cops don't realize they're part of a gang. They think they are good people who are "protecting and serving"... no regular gang member thinks this. The other thing is that using ANY violent resistance, if not any resistance whatsoever, is likely to get you killed. The sheer amount of force that is backing the State and its agents is far greater than that of a regular gang member.

If I have a gun, and tell you to do X (threatening to use it if you don't), you are likely to be killed by me if you don't do X. But if you defend yourself against me successfully, you then get to go home. Not so with the State's agents. If you defend yourself, they will ruin your life, either by locking you up forever or by killing you. The sheer maginitude of that threat, in my opinion, means that even relatively minor transgressions should at least warrant the possibility of execution. Nothing else can scare them because they have the entire State backing them up. You can't defend yourself against them. That distinction matters. I do feel sorry to some degree for those cops who actually think they are providing a service, but do those who can't even follow their own laws really believe this? I don't think so, and thus I don't feel bad for them. When I say "not following their own laws" I don't mean speeding or not wearing a seatbelt or smoking marijuana (although doing any of the above SHOULD be enough to tell them how bad their jobs are.) I'm talking about violently aggressing against citizens in a manner that isn't even legal. That should be a capital offense, IMO, because they have the entire State backing up violence that isn't even justified by their own wicked standards.

You can tell alot about a person by how they treat the weak. a 250 lb man over a 110 lb woman. A person torturing a puppy. Someone beating an infant. A man in his physical prime punching any elderly person.

I tortured lizards when I was 6. Does this make me a bad person?

[navy-vet]

You can tell alot about a person by how they treat the weak. a 250 lb man over a 110 lb woman. A person torturing a puppy. Someone beating an infant. A man in his physical prime punching any elderly person.

Yes, I do believe that. It tells me for one thing, that such an individual simply can't be trusted and is best avoided. That is something that I have personally observed on a couple of different occasions during my life experience.

[Dr.3D]

I believe that.

I tortured lizards when I was 6. Does this make me a bad person?
Made you a bad six year old IMHO Freedom Fanatic

Well, when I was a little kid, I would sit next to an ant hill with a magnifying glass. If the ants could run fast enough, they didn't get burned.

[navy-vet]

I understand your point, and you may be right, but I do want to clarify a bit. I don't think cops are "sub-human." I believe it would be wrong to torture one, for any reason whatsoever. I don't go around calling them "pigs" and so forth (I am not saying I have NEVER done this, but I don't make a habit out of it.) I am, as I have mentioned, on friendly terms with one particular cop in our church.

There are two major differences I see between cops and "regular" gang members, one distinction which is beneficial to the cop, and one that is not. For one thing, most cops don't realize they're part of a gang. They think they are good people who are "protecting and serving"... no regular gang member thinks this. The other thing is that using ANY violent resistance, if not any resistance whatsoever, is likely to get you killed. The sheer amount of force that is backing the State and its agents is far greater than that of a regular gang member.

If I have a gun, and tell you to do X (threatening to use it if you don't), you are likely to be killed by me if you don't do X. But if you defend yourself against me successfully, you then get to go home. Not so with the State's agents. If you defend yourself, they will ruin your life, either by locking you up forever or by killing you. The sheer maginitude of that threat, in my opinion, means that even relatively minor transgressions should at least warrant the possibility of execution. Nothing else can scare them because they have the entire State backing them up. You can't defend yourself against them. That distinction matters. I do feel sorry to some degree for those cops who actually think they are providing a service, but do those who can't even follow their own laws really believe this? I don't think so, and thus I don't feel bad for them. When I say "not following their own laws" I don't mean speeding or not wearing a seatbelt or smoking marijuana (although doing any of the above SHOULD be enough to tell them how bad their jobs are.) I'm talking about violently aggressing against citizens in a manner that isn't even legal. That should be a capital offense, IMO, because they have the entire State backing up violence that isn't even justified by their own wicked standards.



I tortured lizards when I was 6. Does this make me a bad person?

It made you a poorly supervised six year old FF, IMHO