"Freedom from Conscience - Deliverance from Evil." A libertarian thriller.

[Edward777]

Here is a book that many here might like to check out:

http://michaelcross.net/ -- described here.

Review here: http://www.finest.se/userBlog/entry....7&beid=2740576

The basic plot is about a young woman who has an interest in politics but is nevertheless a somewhat sheltered, Portland, Oregon psychologist. I should mention she is a vigilante serial killer as well, at least she was earlier in life. Her awakening to the world at large comes when she is kidnapped by a killer who is also an anarchistic man who has turned his hatred to mankind and God. He has no clue he has taken a killer as his apprentice but he goes on to torture and brainwash her into submission. He is not a typical survivalist -- he anxiously awaits society to collapse so he can come in and take control.

What might interest libertarians is that the book, while a psychological thriller, examines issues like freedom, society, the concept of control and how far we can take our choices in regards to marriage, family and revenge.

While it is the third in a series it does stand on its own and might be a fun way to explore even the most taboo of issues. Give it a try if you like -- and remember what Alan Watt has said that fiction is often the best way to speak to someone in regards to any issue. Maybe it is a good read that, once you finish with it, to share with a conformist who just goes along with what the prevailing society says they should.

[Ronin Truth]

No conscience? So I guess it must be about sociopathy also. No libertarians there.

[Edward777]

Why not? Some say Ayn Rand displayed psychopathic thought. In fiction James Bond is a sociopath, yet does the right thing ultimately. Why can't one be a psychopath or sociopath and battle for heroic ideals?

[GunnyFreedom]

'freedom from conscience' sounds like deliverance into evil to me. If everyone had a conscience, we wouldn't need governments.

[Ronin Truth]

Why not? Some say Ayn Rand displayed psychopathic thought. In fiction James Bond is a sociopath, yet does the right thing ultimately. Why can't one be a psychopath or sociopath and battle for heroic ideals?

Ayn Rand and James Bond are not libertarians. The NAP imposes a very high ethical and moral behavior standard on those wishing to rightfully claim that label. Heroic ideals are NOT a fundamental requirement, the NAP is.

[Ronin Truth]

'freedom from conscience' sounds like deliverance into evil to me. If everyone had a conscience, we wouldn't need governments.

"If men are good, you don't need government; if men are evil or ambivalent, you don't dare have one." -- Bob LeFevre

[Edward777]

'freedom from conscience' sounds like deliverance into evil to me. If everyone had a conscience, we wouldn't need governments.

Not really. If one is trying to be ironic, and showing an anti-hero who is able to accomplish good because they are not hampered by conscience, then how is that evil?

I read a while back a study on heroes and psychopaths. Remarkably the people most likely to help people in a dangerous situation (i.e. step in to save someone getting raped or beat up) are people who tend to score high on the psychopathic checklist. The reason appears that they are less concerned with being a conformist or with whatever social norms hamper people from taking what we would consider heroic action.

If a psychopath is always questioning authority then would it be any surprise to find more psychopaths being attracted to libertarian ideals than one would find in the general population as a whole? Remember, one of the professions (two actually) that tends to have a large number of psychopaths is/are surgeons and emergency room doctors.

[GunnyFreedom]

:shudder: you will never sell me.

[Edward777]

:shudder: you will never sell me.

No sale intended. Just wanting people to wake up to the fact that many of their most adored men and women in politics may be psychopaths. The thing is that such people can and do create good outcomes as well.

As for fiction, you have to admit that it is often the villain, when he or she is doing bad, that is most intriguing; even more so the protagonist or hero when he or she is displaying characteristics generally associated with psychopaths.

[GunnyFreedom]

No sale intended. Just wanting people to wake up to the fact that many of their most adored men and women in politics may be psychopaths. The thing is that such people can and do create good outcomes as well.

As for fiction, you have to admit that it is often the villain, when he or she is doing bad, that is most intriguing; even more so the protagonist or hero when he or she is displaying characteristics generally associated with psychopaths.

I think you have the wrong idea about what kind of people this movement (and the people on these forum) 'adores.'

[Ronin Truth]

Statement of Purpose: Voluntaryists are advocates of non-political, non-violent strategies to achieve a free society. We reject electoral politics, in theory and in practice, as incompatible with libertarian principles. Governments must cloak their actions in an aura of moral legitimacy in order to sustain their power, and political methods invariably strengthen that legitimacy. Voluntaryists seek instead to delegitimize the State through education, and we advocate withdrawal of the cooperation and tacit consent on which State power ultimately depends.

http://voluntaryist.com/#

[PaulConventionWV]

No conscience? So I guess it must be about sociopathy also. No libertarians there.

Oh, I wouldn't be so sure about that. Sociopaths tend to be rebellious and a lot of them are libertarian. Against conventional belief, they are also capable of caring about others... just for different reasons.

There are tons of reasons why many libertarians are psychopaths. They prefer seeking novel experiences to a mundane life. They are often very intelligent and have a sense of superiority, which you can't deny is a common trait on this forum. The list goes on. Sociopaths are not just killers. They're the movers and shakers of the world. They're the CEOs, managers and entrepreneurs.

[Ronin Truth]

Oh, I wouldn't be so sure about that. Sociopaths tend to be rebellious and a lot of them are libertarian. Against conventional belief, they are also capable of caring about others... just for different reasons.

There are tons of reasons why many libertarians are psychopaths. They prefer seeking novel experiences to a mundane life. They are often very intelligent and have a sense of superiority, which you can't deny is a common trait on this forum. The list goes on. Sociopaths are not just killers. They're the movers and shakers of the world. They're the CEOs, managers and entrepreneurs.

No conscience, makes you scary and an alien species to me. It's easier to count on folks with an inner voice telling them right from wrong.

[PaulConventionWV]

'freedom from conscience' sounds like deliverance into evil to me. If everyone had a conscience, we wouldn't need governments.

That's also very debatable. It is not enough to simply have a conscience to be good. You have to first define "good" and "evil" in order to declare that having a conscience is either a good or bad thing. One person's conscience may differ from another person's. If everyone had the same ideas of good and evil AND practiced their own beliefs thereof, THEN we would be able to peacefully coexist. In other words, if everyone had the SAME conscience and simultaneously obeyed that conscience, then we wouldn't need government.

[PaulConventionWV]

:shudder: you will never sell me.

My definition of sociopath/psychopath = non-sheep.

[PaulConventionWV]

No conscience, makes you scary and an alien species to me. It's easier to count on folks with an inner voice telling them right from wrong.

Conscience is just a buzzword. It doesn't really mean anything. Everyone has a conscience of some kind, but that can be completely different things based on how you define it. People who are sociopaths can either be very good or very bad, but the only ones you ever hear about are the bad ones. I wonder why?

[GunnyFreedom]

"some sociopaths are libertarian therefore it's OK"

Bad argument.

"some sociopaths are hitler and stalin, therefore they are evil."

^^ Same argument just said backwards.

[GunnyFreedom]

My definition of sociopath/psychopath = non-sheep.

My definition of sociopath = non-human.

[GunnyFreedom]

LMAO at the sociopaths coming into this thread trying to justify themselves.

[Ronin Truth]

Conscience is just a buzzword. It doesn't really mean anything. Everyone has a conscience of some kind, but that can be completely different things based on how you define it. People who are sociopaths can either be very good or very bad, but the only ones you ever hear about are the bad ones. I wonder why?

Probably because of the horrible things they do. Estimated at ~4% of the population. That leaves only about 12.68 millions to deal with here in the USA. Their inflicted damage far outweighs their numbers.

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...68.N1en4vc3fXM

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...65.tvHejDOXoi4