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Thread: Deception in the RCC

  1. #1

    Deception in the RCC

    http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/rcc.html

    Great article about the seven sacraments and biblical Christianity contrasted with Catholicism.

    There are only two sacraments kept in the NT. Baptism, the Lord's Supper.


    CATHOLICS AND CHRISTIANS:ESSENTIAL DOCTRINAL DIFFERENCES
    The Roman Catholic Church (much like the Judaizers in the book of Galatians) upholds four fundamental tenets of the Christian
    faith: the deity of Christ, the Trinity, the virgin birth, and the bodily resurrection of Jesus. However, it denies that Christ’s work
    of redemption is finished and that His atonement is sufficient.
    In addition, Catholic teaching opposes the doctrine most essential to the Christian faith – the doctrine of justification by
    faith alone. The RCC not only denies this doctrine, but also condemns anyone who believes it. The Catholic Church may say
    that it believes in salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone, but the doctrines of that church deny these words.
    The Roman Catholic Church says it believes in salvation by grace alone. However, their “grace” is not the free gift of
    Christianity but can only be received by the individual in partial installments dispensed through the “magesterium” of the RCC *
    (see Catholic Doctrinal Guide for definition). The RCC says it believes in salvation through faith alone - but adds works to that.
    It says it believes in salvation through Christ alone - but adds, among other things, membership in the Catholic Church, a belief
    that water baptism, even of infants, is what constitutes being born-again, and unbiblical beliefs about Mary. If doctrine is not
    discussed, then Christians will never realize that the doctrines of the Bible are different from the doctrines the RCC adheres to,
    no matter what they say to the contrary. More importantly, if we do not delineate the differences in doctrine between the
    Christian Church and the Catholic Church, we do an incredible disservice to those Catholics who believe they are born-again
    yet still continue in the church of Rome. If we evade doctrinal issues, we are not giving Catholics the chance to escape from a
    deception that will condemn them to eternal death. If a man believes a false gospel, he is not saved and cannot be discipled.
    The discussion of doctrinal differences is truly a life – or - death matter.
    HOLY SCRIPTURE
    Bible: “Every Scripture is God-breathed – given by His inspiration – and profitable for instruction, for reproof, for correction of
    error, and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be complete, well-fitted and thoroughly equipped for every
    good work” (2 Ti 3: 16-17). See also 2 Pe 1: 3-10 and 1 Cor 2:13.
    Deut 4:2; Prov 30:5,6; Rev 22: 19 are just some of the warnings in the Bible dealing with adding to or subtracting from God's
    Holy Word. The RCC, however, does not seem to heed these warnings. As just one example, the Catholic Church does not
    profess the simple Ten Commandments, eliminating the second commandment to have no idols before God and to create no
    graven images. The RCC then takes the Biblical tenth Commandment and makes it into two instead of one. Hence, the RCC
    Ten Commandments are not the Biblical Ten Commandments. The Roman Catholic Church believes that there are more than
    the 66 canonical books of the Bible, adding what they call the Apocrypha*. The Apocrypha contains descriptions of Jesus
    performing magic as a child, and the Catholic beliefs in praying for the dead and purgatory. “Purgatory is the place of suffering a
    Catholic enters after death when he may need to make additional reparation for his sins. There he pays for the temporal
    punishment of sins not previously atoned for by acts of penance* or canceled by indulgences*, special credits obtained from the
    RCC by performing religious acts” (J. McCarthy: What You Need To Know About Roman Catholicism).
    The Catholic Church also adds tradition and papal infallibility* to the teachings of the Bible, thereby placing both above the
    inerrancy of the Bible. (Mt 15:6 states: “So for the sake of your tradition, you have set aside the Word of God and made it null
    and void.”)
    (following is excerpted from Roman Catholicism: Scripture vs. Tradition by Mike Gendron):
    DOCTRINE OF JESUS
    JESUS, THE SAVIOR:
    Bible: "He saved us not because of any righteous deeds we had done, but because of His mercy" (Titus 3:5)
    Roman Catholic Church teaches that "by His death and resurrection, Jesus Christ has 'opened' heaven to us" (1026 -references
    are from 1994 Catholic catechism). Each person attains his own salvation by grace and good works (1477).
    JESUS, THE SINLESS REDEEMER:
    Bible: "For you know it was not with perishable things...that you are redeemed...but with the precious blood of Christ" (1 Pe
    1:17-18).
    RCC teaches that Mary is the sinless co-Redeemer. "Without a single sin to restrain her, she gave herself entirely to the person
    and work of her son; she did so in order to serve the mystery of redemption with Him...being obedient, she became the cause
    of salvation for herself and for the whole human race" (494)
    JESUS, OUR ADVOCATE AND ONLY MEDIATOR:
    Bible: "God is one, one also is the mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" (1 Ti 2:5, 1 Jn 2:1)
    RCC teaches that Mary "did not lay aside her saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation. She is Advocate…and Mediatrix” (969)

    just a portion of the article.
    Ephesians 2:8-9-

    8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.



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  3. #2
    Sure sounds like Paulinism to me.

    "Christianity is the religion founded by Paul, which replaces Jesus' Gospel with a Gospel about Jesus - a religion that should rather be called Paulinism." -- Dr. Wilhelm Nestle, Church Historian

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin007 View Post
    http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/rcc.html

    Great article about the seven sacraments and biblical Christianity contrasted with Catholicism.

    There are only two sacraments kept in the NT. Baptism, the Lord's Supper.


    CATHOLICS AND CHRISTIANS:ESSENTIAL DOCTRINAL DIFFERENCES
    The Roman Catholic Church (much like the Judaizers in the book of Galatians) upholds four fundamental tenets of the Christian
    faith: the deity of Christ, the Trinity, the virgin birth, and the bodily resurrection of Jesus. However, it denies that Christ’s work
    of redemption is finished and that His atonement is sufficient.
    In addition, Catholic teaching opposes the doctrine most essential to the Christian faith – the doctrine of justification by
    faith alone. The RCC not only denies this doctrine, but also condemns anyone who believes it. The Catholic Church may say
    that it believes in salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone, but the doctrines of that church deny these words.
    The Roman Catholic Church says it believes in salvation by grace alone. However, their “grace” is not the free gift of
    Christianity but can only be received by the individual in partial installments dispensed through the “magesterium” of the RCC *
    (see Catholic Doctrinal Guide for definition). The RCC says it believes in salvation through faith alone - but adds works to that.
    It says it believes in salvation through Christ alone - but adds, among other things, membership in the Catholic Church, a belief
    that water baptism, even of infants, is what constitutes being born-again, and unbiblical beliefs about Mary. If doctrine is not
    discussed, then Christians will never realize that the doctrines of the Bible are different from the doctrines the RCC adheres to,
    no matter what they say to the contrary. More importantly, if we do not delineate the differences in doctrine between the
    Christian Church and the Catholic Church, we do an incredible disservice to those Catholics who believe they are born-again
    yet still continue in the church of Rome. If we evade doctrinal issues, we are not giving Catholics the chance to escape from a
    deception that will condemn them to eternal death. If a man believes a false gospel, he is not saved and cannot be discipled.
    The discussion of doctrinal differences is truly a life – or - death matter.
    HOLY SCRIPTURE
    Bible: “Every Scripture is God-breathed – given by His inspiration – and profitable for instruction, for reproof, for correction of
    error, and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be complete, well-fitted and thoroughly equipped for every
    good work” (2 Ti 3: 16-17). See also 2 Pe 1: 3-10 and 1 Cor 2:13.
    Deut 4:2; Prov 30:5,6; Rev 22: 19 are just some of the warnings in the Bible dealing with adding to or subtracting from God's
    Holy Word. The RCC, however, does not seem to heed these warnings. As just one example, the Catholic Church does not
    profess the simple Ten Commandments, eliminating the second commandment to have no idols before God and to create no
    graven images. The RCC then takes the Biblical tenth Commandment and makes it into two instead of one. Hence, the RCC
    Ten Commandments are not the Biblical Ten Commandments. The Roman Catholic Church believes that there are more than
    the 66 canonical books of the Bible, adding what they call the Apocrypha*. The Apocrypha contains descriptions of Jesus
    performing magic as a child, and the Catholic beliefs in praying for the dead and purgatory. “Purgatory is the place of suffering a
    Catholic enters after death when he may need to make additional reparation for his sins. There he pays for the temporal
    punishment of sins not previously atoned for by acts of penance* or canceled by indulgences*, special credits obtained from the
    RCC by performing religious acts” (J. McCarthy: What You Need To Know About Roman Catholicism).
    The Catholic Church also adds tradition and papal infallibility* to the teachings of the Bible, thereby placing both above the
    inerrancy of the Bible. (Mt 15:6 states: “So for the sake of your tradition, you have set aside the Word of God and made it null
    and void.”)
    (following is excerpted from Roman Catholicism: Scripture vs. Tradition by Mike Gendron):
    DOCTRINE OF JESUS
    JESUS, THE SAVIOR:
    Bible: "He saved us not because of any righteous deeds we had done, but because of His mercy" (Titus 3:5)
    Roman Catholic Church teaches that "by His death and resurrection, Jesus Christ has 'opened' heaven to us" (1026 -references
    are from 1994 Catholic catechism). Each person attains his own salvation by grace and good works (1477).
    JESUS, THE SINLESS REDEEMER:
    Bible: "For you know it was not with perishable things...that you are redeemed...but with the precious blood of Christ" (1 Pe
    1:17-18).
    RCC teaches that Mary is the sinless co-Redeemer. "Without a single sin to restrain her, she gave herself entirely to the person
    and work of her son; she did so in order to serve the mystery of redemption with Him...being obedient, she became the cause
    of salvation for herself and for the whole human race" (494)
    JESUS, OUR ADVOCATE AND ONLY MEDIATOR:
    Bible: "God is one, one also is the mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" (1 Ti 2:5, 1 Jn 2:1)
    RCC teaches that Mary "did not lay aside her saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation. She is Advocate…and Mediatrix” (969)

    just a portion of the article.
    This is a tiny little group of people of less than 35 people who call themselves "Lighthouse Trails" and oh what a surprise--they're OSAS as well. Yet another one of your rabid internet sites Kevin.

  5. #4
    Christ is among us!

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    Christ is among us!

    Yes he is

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Terry1 View Post
    Yes he is
    And always shall be!

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    Sure sounds like Paulinism to me.

    "Christianity is the religion founded by Paul, which replaces Jesus' Gospel with a Gospel about Jesus - a religion that should rather be called Paulinism." -- Dr. Wilhelm Nestle, Church Historian
    I've seen you post this elsewhere. There is some truth to it, but it's not a universal truth. Some denominations and churches emphasize Paul above the synoptic gospels and the words of Jesus , but not all. That's how we find devices like the Pauline Triangle preached by certain ministers. Mega-churches are the worst in this regard, IMHO. (not to insult them, just sayin')
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    I've seen you post this elsewhere. There is some truth to it, but it's not a universal truth. Some denominations and churches emphasize Paul above the synoptic gospels and the words of Jesus , but not all. That's how we find devices like the Pauline Triangle preached by certain ministers. Mega-churches are the worst in this regard, IMHO. (not to insult them, just sayin')
    Why do you specify the synoptic gospels? Does John count less?



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    Sure sounds like Paulinism to me.

    "Christianity is the religion founded by Paul, which replaces Jesus' Gospel with a Gospel about Jesus - a religion that should rather be called Paulinism." -- Dr. Wilhelm Nestle, Church Historian
    How specifically do you think Paul's teachings differed from Jesus's?

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    I've seen you post this elsewhere. There is some truth to it, but it's not a universal truth. Some denominations and churches emphasize Paul above the synoptic gospels and the words of Jesus , but not all. That's how we find devices like the Pauline Triangle preached by certain ministers. Mega-churches are the worst in this regard, IMHO. (not to insult them, just sayin')
    What IS a universal truth?

    Careful.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    How specifically do you think Paul's teachings differed from Jesus's?
    https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...24.goVYdlZc7lU

  14. #12
    Thanks. After carefully weighing all of the evidence, I have discovered that at no point does Paul contradict Jesus. Paul's gospel about Jesus and the gospel Jesus preached about himself are the same.

    Do you agree? If not, do you personally have any reasons for that?

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    Thanks. After carefully weighing all of the evidence, I have discovered that at no point does Paul contradict Jesus. Paul's gospel about Jesus and the gospel Jesus preached about himself are the same.

    Do you agree? If not, do you personally have any reasons for that?
    What reasons did Dr. Wilhelm Nestle, Church Historian have? I'll just let you two "experts" sort out your differences. To me, it's really mox nix.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    What reasons did Dr. Wilhelm Nestle, Church Historian have? I'll just let you two "experts" sort out your differences. To me, it's really mox nix.
    I've already done that.

    But what about you? Do you have any reasons for your beliefs? If so, what are they?

    ETA: By the way, can you find where that quote of Nestle comes from? All I kind find on google is a bunch of people repeating it and attributing it to him. None of them say from where. It gives the impression that they're all hacks who just copied and pasted it from one another, which I'm guessing is all that you did. Did he ever write anything giving his reasons for believing that? As far as I can tell, he did not.
    Last edited by erowe1; 10-02-2014 at 08:46 AM.

  17. #15
    In addition, Catholic teaching opposes the doctrine most essential to the Christian faith – the doctrine of justification by faith alone. The RCC not only denies this doctrine, but also condemns anyone who believes it.
    Well, I didn't make it past the first couple sentences.

    I've already shown - through a simple review of all the top hits on google regarding this matter - that the RCC itself does not teach that works save.
    So the idea you're spreading is not the RCC understanding of this matter - it's a protestant caricature of RCC beliefs. Just because protestants teach that RC's believe this, doesn't mean that RC's believe this.
    I'm not carrying any water for the RCC... there's plenty else to nail them on which are actually valid criticisms. But this is not one.

    Moreover, by saying that the most essential doctrine to the Christian faith is one which wasn't clearly expressed by anyone for 1,500 years, the author is casting millions of Christians who lived over the course of a millennium and a half straight into hell.

    Going beyond mere interpretation of Scripture, let's consider that for some time after Christ's ascension, there was no Scripture at all. This means that either Holy Tradition is binding, or that even those initial Christians taught by the apostles themselves are damned.
    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    Well, I didn't make it past the first couple sentences.

    I've already shown - through a simple review of all the top hits on google regarding this matter - that the RCC itself does not teach that works save.
    So the idea you're spreading is not the RCC understanding of this matter - it's a protestant caricature of RCC beliefs. Just because protestants teach that RC's believe this, doesn't mean that RC's believe this.
    I'm not carrying any water for the RCC... there's plenty else to nail them on which are actually valid criticisms. But this is not one.

    Moreover, by saying that the most essential doctrine to the Christian faith is one which wasn't clearly expressed by anyone for 1,500 years, the author is casting millions of Christians who lived over the course of a millennium and a half straight into hell.

    Going beyond mere interpretation of Scripture, let's consider that for some time after Christ's ascension, there was no Scripture at all. This means that either Holy Tradition is binding, or that even those initial Christians taught by the apostles themselves are damned.
    it doesn't matter what google says- go to the source- the Catechism.
    Ephesians 2:8-9-

    8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    I've already done that.

    But what about you? Do you have any reasons for your beliefs? If so, what are they?

    ETA: By the way, can you find where that quote of Nestle comes from? All I kind find on google is a bunch of people repeating it and attributing it to him. None of them say from where. It gives the impression that they're all hacks who just copied and pasted it from one another, which I'm guessing is all that you did. Did he ever write anything giving his reasons for believing that? As far as I can tell, he did not.
    Yep, really, really tough. I doubt that you are even trying. (No surprise there.) Are grad students doing all of your other research for you? Am I going to need to furnish a pablum spoon too?

    https://www.google.com/search?q=dr.+...gbv=2&oq=&gs_l=



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