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Thread: First US case of Ebola

  1. #1141
    Quote Originally Posted by MelissaWV View Post
    Bravo. It's paranoia that ebola has been contracted in this nation, and that I don't trust people to self-quarantine and the CDC to provide straight answers to everyone, but on the other hand I should be discussing other topics that involve the Government being shady and incompetent. The logic is so beautiful and flawless, really.

    * * *

    This topic alarms people for three simple reasons that make it the perfect storm.

    1. No one wants to die like this. This isn't just a really bad case of the flu. You would not die of the pure disease in the US, mind you, because there are methods of treatment once you have the disease that are way better than you would have access to in a lot of "clinics" in third world countries. You would be mildly more comfortable, if only due to climate control and proper hydration. It's still a little difficult to ignore the symptoms and painful machinations of this little bug. The possibility of bleeding from every major bodily exit, some of them helping to expel parts of your internal workings, is not a good possibility at all. Contrast that with H1N1 which really is a super bad case of the flu. Also contrast it with truly airborne diseases, and you begin to understand that...

    2. This should be stoppable. This is not a hugely widespread outbreak, and it should have been pretty easy to isolate right off the bat. Travel restrictions would not have stopped this dead in its tracks, because they are based either on nation of origin (as was pointed out that's a ridiculous way to do this) or on visas/passports. None of that will prevent people taking a roundabout route to the US, those who've visited infected nations and come back but have an "acceptable" passport, etc.. And at this point the genie is out of the bottle. The people involved have interacted with loved ones, been on public transportation, been on cruises, been moved from place to place within and outside of the initial hospital, and so on. Banning others when you have a widening circle of people to suspect might start showing symptoms is a logistical nightmare ripe for abuse. Hell, the CDC's "list of people they were watching" did not seem to originally include this nurse, but the story is simultaneously that she was in close, repeated contact with the patient in Dallas. How does that name not make it onto a list of potentially infected people?

    3. Government is short-sighted, self-important, self-replicating, and opportunistic. That almost sounds like a description of ebola, but I digress. They WILL create new departments to oversee this (Ebola Czar? I would have thought the head of the CDC already supposedly handled that, even from a "we must have an agency!" standpoint?). There will be new laws (Republicans calling for travel bans will need to legislate it into effect and, of course, fund and train the TSA). There will be wasted money and clamoring for earmarked funds to "protect the people" (how much DOES it cost to shut down a school and decontaminate it with chemicals from top to bottom?). Most of all, though, the refrain that only Government can handle this will be repeated almost as often as "direct contact with bodily fluids" (with no explanation of what that means), "protocol breach" (assuming there was a standardized protocol communicated to everyone who ever went into that room), and several other choice statements.

    So it doesn't mean people are paranoid because they are vigilant and aware, and it doesn't mean there is zero threat simply because the Government will take advantage.

    Let's propose a scenario that sounds like it's right out of a movie. Let's say that there are lower level workers who didn't make it onto a "list" who might have handled medical waste related to a patient. Someone took their gloves off wrong, or didn't bother wearing them properly to start with, or even jabbed themselves with a needle. Yeah, that last one happens and no, people do not always report it. That person goes home. Let's say they do not live in the most sanitary conditions and live with a lot of other family. Let's imply that this family does not want to get medical care when they start showing symptoms, or even more advanced stages. Let's also imply that not everyone in the household is here legally, or that maybe someone's not keen on having to be in isolation where their hourly job will no longer be paying to feed their family. How quickly does a disease spread through that kind of community? Before you roll your eyes again, take a look at the Dallas area. Really look at it. How sure are you that this is far-fetched conjecture?

    Does this mean I'm quaking in my boots? Nope. It does mean, though, that I'm aware it isn't something to take lightly, and that I'm watchful of how the Government is going to spin this to their advantage.

    Good Lord, a rational and common sense response. And here I thought that common sense was mensa non grata....
    Last edited by GunnyFreedom; 10-19-2014 at 11:50 AM.



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  3. #1142
    Quote Originally Posted by MelissaWV View Post
    3. Government is short-sighted, self-important, self-replicating, and opportunistic.
    IOW, it is a virus, only far deadlier than Ebola or Marburg.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  4. #1143
    Quote Originally Posted by MelissaWV View Post
    ...just in time for the election.
    Funny, that.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  5. #1144
    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianAnarchist View Post
    My goodness!! Can't we all "JUST GET ALONG" (famous quote). Really? People getting all upset because I point out the chances of getting Ebola are slim to none?? Give me a break here. When I use the word "panic" I'm not addressing you or gunny specifically. I'm addressing the lamestream media and the average Joe. I do want to point out how "mandatory" anything is anti-liberty and if that means you might find a sick person living in the home next to you then just stay away from them.

    If you follow your suggestions (government intervention) to their logical conclusions you will find that eventually the use of force is required to "keep us safe". This always sound like a great idea until it's used on you. How about your kid is in school and vomits. The goons instantly quarantine him on suspicion of having "Ebola" and whisk him away to some area that you cannot access him. He's gone for 21 to 30 days and you don't know where he is or how he's doing. He may or not come back alive.

    Yes, this is an extreme example but not that far fetched. Yes, I guess such measure WOULD give us a little more "safety" but then you all know about sacrificing Liberty for Safety...

    Show me where I have ever recommended govt intervention? They can't find their asses with both hands. Don't attribute things to me I never said.



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  7. #1145
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashland View Post
    Everyone freaking out because of the "well it's not a threat right now, but it has the potential if...", is throwing themselves a lifeline for when this thing inevitably blows over. "Well we did say it was just the potential...but thanks to our hard work sounding the alarm nothing happened."
    Said it before and I'll say it again. There will be nothing more than a handful of isolated Ebola cases here in the US. Even with Obama and the CDC being incompetent and slow to learn.
    I agree. Now, what if you're one of the handful?

  8. #1146
    Quote Originally Posted by cajuncocoa View Post
    I agree. Now, what if you're one of the handful?
    All I ask, no matter what the circumstances of my death are, do not name a "law" after me.
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump

  9. #1147
    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    All I ask, no matter what the circumstances of my death are, do not name a "law" after me.
    I'll promise that for you if you do the same for me.

  10. #1148
    Quote Originally Posted by cajuncocoa View Post
    I agree. Now, what if you're one of the handful?
    What if I'm one of the handful who gets struck by lightning each year? Everybody is orders of magnitude more likely to die of a heart attack this year than from Ebola.
    Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law. -Douglas Hofstadter

    Life, Liberty, Logic

  11. #1149
    Quote Originally Posted by Carlybee View Post
    Show me where I have ever recommended govt intervention? They can't find their asses with both hands. Don't attribute things to me I never said.
    Good, I'm glad you don't want the "government" to intervene. Perhaps I misunderstood. Didn't you want a ban on travel from certain locations or at least "inspection" of people coming from there? If so, wouldn't that be government intervention? If they "inspected" people from Africa doesn't that mean they could also detain them for suspicion of "Ebola"?

    Of course I think that quarantine is a good tool for contagious disease but to be consistent with liberty it should be with the patient's consent. I think most patients would agree to a form of self-quarantine in their home or a special quarantine ward in a hospital if they were diagnosed with a deadly contagious disease. If you did run into someone who did not agree to it the only way to deal with it and maintain a liberty position is to notify neighbors or others coming in contact with the person that they are infected. This, of course, means that HIPPA needs to be trashed (I'm all for it)...
    BEWARE THE CULT OF "GOVERNMENT"

    Christian Anarchy - Our Only Hope For Liberty In Our Lifetime!
    Sonmi 451: Truth is singular. Its "versions" are mistruths.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ChristianAnarchist

    Use an internet archive site like
    THIS ONE
    to archive the article and create the link to the article content instead.

  12. #1150
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashland View Post
    What if I'm one of the handful who gets struck by lightning each year? Everybody is orders of magnitude more likely to die of a heart attack this year than from Ebola.
    Would you think I was weird if I told someone, "Do not hold an umbrella in an open field during a lightning storm?"

  13. #1151
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    Would you think I was weird if I told someone, "Do not hold an umbrella in an open field during a lightning storm?"
    I would find it amusing if the entire country, simultaneously, became concerned with weather apparel.

    Suggesting weather apparel, offering their opinion on weather apparel, watching the news constantly for their take on weather apparel.... that sort of thing.

    ETA: It would be especially amusing if those who offered advice with regards to weather apparel spelled apparel: aparell, or they confused Apparel with being a country.

    An apparel czar would be somewhat amusing too, if it weren't so un-amusing.
    Last edited by kcchiefs6465; 10-19-2014 at 02:23 PM.
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump

  14. #1152
    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    I would find it amusing if the entire country, simultaneously, became concerned with weather apparel.

    Suggesting weather apparel, offering their opinion on weather apparel, watching the news constantly for their take on weather apparel.... that sort of thing.

    ETA: It would be especially amusing if those who offered advice with regards to weather apparel spelled apparel: aparell, or they confused Apparel with being a country.

    An apparel czar would be somewhat amusing too, if it weren't so un-amusing.
    If lightning had never occurred in the recorded history of the US, and then suddenly lightning started out of nowhere at it's present rate and saturation, then I would expect it was just common sense to pass on advice to people on how to avoid getting struck by lightening.



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  16. #1153
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    If lightning had never occurred in the recorded history of the US, and then suddenly lightning started out of nowhere at it's present rate and saturation, then I would expect it was just common sense to pass on advice to people on how to avoid getting struck by lightening.
    Honestly.

    Or take the incidents of cops killing innocent people.

    Very rare, compared to people killing other people, or heart disease killing people or cancer or flu.

    But the ramifications of what will happen if left uncontrolled, if left to grow and expand unchecked are horrendous.

  17. #1154
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Honestly.

    Or take the incidents of cops killing innocent people.

    Very rare, compared to people killing other people, or heart disease killing people or cancer or flu.

    But the ramifications of what will happen if left uncontrolled, if left to grow and expand unchecked are horrendous.
    This is so true. You are statistically FAR more likely to be accidentally killed by a gang member in the crossfire of some turf war than you are by a cop, nevertheless the official transgressions are far more important because of the potential from public complacency on police state abuses. Shoot, depending on where you live, you are more likely to get hacked to death by a machete wielding MS-13 member because you are some guy who crossed the wrong street at the wrong time and saw something you weren't supposed to. As horrible as that is, the less statistically likely event of getting shot in the head by a cop is still more important, because the police act on official fiat.
    http://glenbradley.net/share/aleksan...nitsyn_4-t.gif “And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.” ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

  18. #1155
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    If lightning had never occurred in the recorded history of the US, and then suddenly lightning started out of nowhere at it's present rate and saturation, then I would expect it was just common sense to pass on advice to people on how to avoid getting struck by lightening.
    Well sure.

    But things being put in perspective might be beneficial too.

    Not going outside of your home because of possible lightning strikes might be seen as overdoing it. "Everyone will die from lightning strikes!!!!"... etc.

    Not that any in this thread have been saying as much (though I've admittedly followed just a few pages of it) but regardless, those voices are alive and well.
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump

  19. #1156
    Was in town helping Mom,
    On the front page of the local paper,,
    Protocols in place at WMH in case of Ebola outbreak

    http://www.sooeveningnews.com/articl...NEWS/141018978

    WMH, is War Memorial Hospital. I was born there,, and it seems they have been going down hill ever since.

    Anyone with any choice goes somewhere else,, But a lot of Canadians use it.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  20. #1157
    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    Well sure.

    But things being put in perspective might be beneficial too.

    Not going outside of your home because of possible lightning strikes might be seen as overdoing it. "Everyone will die from lightning strikes!!!!"... etc.

    Not that any in this thread have been saying as much (though I've admittedly followed just a few pages of it) but regardless, those voices are alive and well.
    All I've mentioned is restricting flights and/or passengers inbound from the countries where the disease is raging, and this could be done adopting the method that ships have used for hundreds of years to prevent bringing contagion into foreign ports, and was used by Belize just this weekend, that of "Pratique".

    This was how Senegal and Nigeria stopped their Ebola outbreaks.

    Very simple, very effective, no national freak out required, no martial law and no multi billion dollar spending orgasm on what will end up being mostly unneeded preparations, materials and "lockdowns".
    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 10-19-2014 at 03:08 PM.

  21. #1158
    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    Well sure.

    But things being put in perspective might be beneficial too.

    Not going outside of your home because of possible lightning strikes might be seen as overdoing it. "Everyone will die from lightning strikes!!!!"... etc.

    Not that any in this thread have been saying as much (though I've admittedly followed just a few pages of it) but regardless, those voices are alive and well.
    Outside of RPF's, sure they are. This place is, and has been pretty well rational, especially when compared with "everywhere else." Which is usually one of the things that these forums does best. When the average joe is searching up "ebola" on Google.com I happen to like the idea that a stranger can visit here and find a resoivoir of actual common sense.

  22. #1159
    Nassim Taleb: Here's What People Don't Understand About Ebola
    http://www.businessinsider.com/nassi...#ixzz3Gcz7QcFA

    Multiplication — that's what people don't understand about Ebola, according to Nassim Taleb, the author of "Fooled by Randomness" and "The Black Swan."

    More specifically, Taleb explained to Business Insider that many people talking about the disease don't "have a grasp of the severity of the multiplicative process."

    The argument that the US should be more worried about a disease like cancer — which has more stable rates of infection than Ebola does currently — is a logic that Taleb calls "the empiricism of the idiots."

    The basic idea: The growth of Ebola infection is nonlinear, so the number of people catching it doubles every 20 days. Because of this, you have to act quickly at the source of infections, he says. "The closer you are to the source, the more effective you are at slowing it down ... it is much more rational to prevent it now than later."

    The problem Taleb sees is that if there is not more urgent action in Liberia, Sierra Leone, and Guinea — to the point of restricting travel and other measures that may now seem like an overreaction — then there will be consequences here.

    "If you have to overreact about something, this is the place to overreact," he said.


    If Ebola doesn't get contained at the source now, he says, there is a risk that people start perceiving it as out of control, and that could have major economic consequences in the US — shutdown airports, people too afraid to go out of their house to buy anything, and so forth.
    https://www.facebook.com/permalink.p...id=13012333374

    EBOLA. You need to focus on growth rate, not number of victims --in other words the 2nd order, not first order effect, the nonlinearity.
    ---
    [Added: Something that doubles every 24 days multiplies by 37,000 every year. The doubling period is 15-20 days in Libera. So the idea proposed by Yaneer Bar Yam is to slow it down in the place of origin. You can't rely on the medical establishment here to screen properly (too risky). And you want to avoid having ebola spread out of Africa too much before the winter up North when epidemics grow faster, and avoid having consumers panicking ahead of the Christmas season as they become agoraphobic.]

    [Comment: This should be familiar to people here as it is the same nonlinearity behind fragility and antifragility.

    Naive evidentiary methods lead people to focus on death rate (which is lower than mortality from hitting one's own furniture) and deem overreaction or even concern to be "irrational". But these rates do not grow exponentially. These are the same evidentiary idiots who refused to see financial risks in 2007. Much psychologists of risks don't know probability and think people are "irrational" when it is the psychologists who confuse, Pinker-style, naive evidence for statistical property.]
    EBOLA: A simplified model extracting the effect of uncertainty, & why should ignore the "empiricism of the idiot".
    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Nassi...333374?fref=nf

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8n...o1dkMzOVU/view
    Based on the idea of natural rights, government secures those rights to the individual by strictly negative intervention, making justice costless and easy of access; and beyond that it does not go. The State, on the other hand, both in its genesis and by its primary intention, is purely anti-social. It is not based on the idea of natural rights, but on the idea that the individual has no rights except those that the State may provisionally grant him. It has always made justice costly and difficult of access, and has invariably held itself above justice and common morality whenever it could advantage itself by so doing.
    --Albert J. Nock

  23. #1160
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    All I've mentioned is restricting flights and/or passengers inbound from the countries where the disease is raging, and this could be done adopting the method that ships have used for hundreds of years to prevent bringing contagion into foreign ports, and was used by Belize just this weekend, that of "Pratique".

    This was how Senegal and Nigeria stopped their Ebola outbreaks.

    Very simple, very effective, no national freak out required, no martial law and no multi billion dollar spending orgasm on what will end up being mostly unneeded preparations, materials and "lockdowns".
    The border is still rather "open." It, I imagine, isn't hard to bypass said security measures. Said agencies tasked with combating this "epidemic" are incredibly incompetent... even unbelievably so. I mean, let's keep this in perspective.
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump



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  25. #1161
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    All I've mentioned is restricting flights and/or passengers inbound from the countries where the disease is raging, and this could be done adopting the method that ships have used for hundreds of years to prevent bringing contagion into foreign ports, and was used by Belize just this weekend, that of "Pratique".

    This was how Senegal and Nigeria stopped their Ebola outbreaks.

    Very simple, very effective, no national freak out required, no martial law and no multi billion dollar spending orgasm on what will end up being mostly unneeded preparations, materials and "lockdowns".

    Racis...
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  26. #1162
    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianAnarchist View Post
    Good, I'm glad you don't want the "government" to intervene. Perhaps I misunderstood. Didn't you want a ban on travel from certain locations or at least "inspection" of people coming from there? If so, wouldn't that be government intervention? If they "inspected" people from Africa doesn't that mean they could also detain them for suspicion of "Ebola"?

    Of course I think that quarantine is a good tool for contagious disease but to be consistent with liberty it should be with the patient's consent. I think most patients would agree to a form of self-quarantine in their home or a special quarantine ward in a hospital if they were diagnosed with a deadly contagious disease. If you did run into someone who did not agree to it the only way to deal with it and maintain a liberty position is to notify neighbors or others coming in contact with the person that they are infected. This, of course, means that HIPPA needs to be trashed (I'm all for it)...
    I don't know how you can think most people would self quarantine themselves when one of the healthcare workers exposed to Duncan got on a plane and another one went on a cruise. People are apparently stupid. I don't think govt control is the answer but not everything has a liberty solution either due to the fact that we don't live in a pro liberty environment. That would be nice, but until we do it's not realistic. I don't have the answers I just want to have the freedom to discuss and consider every scenario without people on here trying to squash the conversation. Especially when in essence they are actually parroting the Administration by telling people to stop worrying.

  27. #1163
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashland View Post
    What if I'm one of the handful who gets struck by lightning each year? Everybody* is orders of magnitude more likely to die of a heart attack this year than from Ebola.
    * This statement is null and void if you happen to live in Western Africa this year.
    It has a good chance of being null and void in most of the world next year.

    -t

  28. #1164
    Biden to Justice Roberts: You will rule on microchips in people and brain scans.



    Im listening to MTP pundits talk about the 'Pentagon Strike Team' that will work inside the US under ebola pretenses.
    Last edited by devil21; 10-20-2014 at 02:07 AM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  29. #1165
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    The USS Mercy and USS Comfort are both "hot stacked" currently but could be underway in less than a week.



    The non-profit "Mercy Ships" organization, out of Texas, already has their vessel working in the area, Guinea IIRC.

    Unrelated, I have couple of shipmates that I know that served as volunteer crew onboard.
    EBOLA OUTBREAK DELAYS MERCY SHIPS SAIL TO AFRICA
    https://www.mercyships.org/ebola-out...ail-to-africa/

    The Africa Mercy adjusts plans to bring hope and healing in the midst of current uncertainties

    TENERIFE, CANARY ISLANDS -August 18, 2014 – Collateral hardship from the Ebola epidemic now includes a delay for Mercy Ships, which operates the world’s largest civilian hospital ship in ports on the West Coast of Africa. Already with one canceled deployment to Guinea, where Ebola first broke out last December, the Mercy Ship now waits in the water with crew and staff, pending an end-of-August decision on field service in Benin.
    The Mercy Ship was due to sail for the port of Cotonou, Benin, for its 10-month field service last week but has delayed that sail pending further assessment due to the virulence of the outbreak in neighboring Nigeria. Earlier, in April, Mercy Ships made the difficult decision to cancel the hospital ship’s planned deployment to Guinea, where the Ebola outbreak began last December.
    Currently docked in the Canary Islands, following the vessel’s annual maintenance phase, the 16,500-ton Mercy Ship is designed to deploy specialized surgical expertise and educational support. It is unequipped to treat viral epidemics, according to the charity’s president and founder Don Stephens.
    “Multi-bed wards and limited isolation facilities, close proximity to crew accommodation and dining for families and children are but a few restraints,” Stephens said. “We also hire 200 day crew in each port as part of our training and capacity building for Africa.”
    Stephens said the organization is closely monitoring the situation on the whole of the African continent. “Africa is and remains our priority, but crew safety drives every decision,” he emphasized. “We request prayer as we consider all options to manage the risk, including deployment to other unaffected nations.” This ship’s crew of 400 represents 40 nations, with up to 60 children onboard at any time.
    Following the US Center for Disease Control recommendations, Mercy Ships has banned crew travel to Guinea, Sierra Leone, Liberia and Nigeria. Likewise, crew guests and day crew may not board the Mercy Ship for at least 21 days after they have visited one of the four affected countries.
    “Mercy Ships has many, many friends in West Africa,” Stephens said. “In the meantime, our prayers go out to all those affected by this terrible epidemic, especially those in Liberia, Sierra Leone, Guinea, and Nigeria.”
    Docking in an African port, the ship brings high-tech equipment, state-of-the-art facilities, highly skilled doctors, free specialized surgeries, healthcare training including instrument sterilization and disease prevention, agricultural training and more. Mercy Ships provides many types of surgeries: maxillofacial, plastic reconstructive, orthopaedic, and general. The organization also offers dental care and eye care, and it works alongside local government and healthcare providers to improve local healthcare delivery systems.
    Since the first arrival of a Mercy Ship in 1991 to Togo, 23 of the 35 years of Mercy Ships service have been focused in Africa. For more information go to www.mercyships.org.

    ====
    They are, however, currently looking for another ship. Perhaps one better suited to dealing with epidemics?

    -t

  30. #1166
    BBC last night from memory: ' The recovered Spanish nurse was treated by blood serum drip and other drugs.' I also heard american nurse survivor talking on american media about hoping her blood could be useful.Hopefully the dam is breaking regarding sitting on simple survivor antibody donation in favour of antibody (patented) vaccines.

  31. #1167
    Blood transfusion named as priority treatment for Ebola
    Therapy uses serum from disease survivors, but data on effectiveness is scarce.
    (journal article on 1979 outbreak reported 80% => 12.5% fatality rate w/ this Tx, albeit with a small sample size)

    http://www.nature.com/news/blood-tra...-ebola-1.15854

    Treating Ebola patients with the blood or purified serum of disease survivors should be made a priority in the fight against the ongoing outbreak in West Africa, an expert panel organized by the World Health Organization (WHO) said on 5 September.

    The recommendation came at the end of a two-day meeting to determine which experimental Ebola therapies and vaccines should be prioritized for accelerated clinical development. The WHO estimates that roughly 3,700 people have been infected in West Africa, and about 1,850 have died.

    Marie-Paule Kieny, WHO assistant director-general for health systems and innovation, said that the transfusion of whole blood or purified serum from Ebola survivors is the therapy with the greatest potential to be implemented immediately on a large scale in West Africa — in part because the outbreak’s size means that there are many potential donors available. The idea is to transfer antibodies against Ebola from survivors to those still infected, but there is little information on the efficacy of such treatment.

    The priority, said Kieny, will be to ensure that collected blood is free of other pathogens and that health-care workers remain safe during transfusions, when they would be exposed to Ebola patients' blood. Efforts to establish proper infrastructure and training are in place, she added.

    No Ebola therapies or vaccines have yet been approved for human use. But on 11 August, a WHO expert panel said that it is ethically acceptable to test and use experimental medicines in the outbreak, provided that every effort is made to gather scientific data on safety and efficacy. That panel said that such actions are justified because of the exceptional nature of this outbreak; it has proven difficult to implement public-health measures that have ended past Ebola outbreaks.

    Promising candidates
    At the WHO meeting that concluded on 5 September, experts also recommended prioritizing tests of two candidate vaccines: a chimpanzee adenovirus vaccine (ChAd3) developed by the US National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) and drug giant GlaxoSmithKline, and a recombinant vesicular stomatitis virus (rVSV) vaccine developed by the Public Health Agency of Canada and licensed to NewLink Genetics of Ames, Iowa. Both the ChAd3 and rVSV vaccines have conferred 100% protection against Ebola in animal studies.

    Phase I trials of the rVSV vaccine will begin this month in the United States, and trials of ChAd3 vaccines will also begin in the United States, the United Kingdom, Gambia and Mali. They will test whether the vaccines are safe, and determine whether they elicit the levels of immune response that have conferred protection against Ebola in animals.

    Eight hundred doses of rVSV are currently available, the WHO says, and some 15,000 doses of ChAd3 should be ready by the end of the year.
    (at which point 1.4M people are expected to be infected - ugh!)

    The panel convened by WHO also selected drugs for priority use and testing, basing its decision on those that have shown good efficacy and safety in non-human primates. The chosen treatments include ZMapp, a cocktail of monoclonal antibodies developed by Mapp Biopharmaceutical in San Diego, California, that last week was shown to confer 100% protection in rhesus macaques. On 2 September, the US Department of Health and Human Services announced up to US$42.3 million in funding over 18 months for the drug’s development and manufacture.

    Oyewale Tomori, a virologist at Redeemer's University in Redemption City, Nigeria, says that efforts to test and distribute new therapies and vaccines must not detract from the need to institute basic public-health measures in Ebola-stricken areas, or to provide supportive care for patients. Few patients in outbreak areas have access to quality care measures, such as intravenous rehydration, that can greatly reduce mortality. But the WHO said on 28 August that it was seeking $490 million to bolster basic public-health measures and the quality of care in Ebola treatment centres.

    -t

  32. #1168



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  34. #1169
    Quote Originally Posted by S.Shorland View Post
    BBC last night from memory: ' The recovered Spanish nurse was treated by blood serum drip and other drugs.' I also heard american nurse survivor talking on american media about hoping her blood could be useful.Hopefully the dam is breaking regarding sitting on simple survivor antibody donation in favour of antibody (patented) vaccines.
    ZMapp is a patented anti-body treatment. It is not a vaccine. Vaccines simply stimulate a person to develop their own anti-bodies.

    Unfortunately, they do not have a manufacturing process for Zmapp that can be scaled-up (yet).

    ZMapp is an experimental biopharmaceutical drug comprising three humanized monoclonal antibodies under development as a treatment for Ebola virus disease.
    ...
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZMapp
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  35. #1170
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucille View Post
    Nassim Taleb: Here's What People Don't Understand About Ebola
    http://www.businessinsider.com/nassi...#ixzz3Gcz7QcFA
    The mathematicians and economists who understand math are a bit more worried than some...

    Much worse to come
    The Ebola epidemic in west Africa poses a catastrophic threat to the region, and could yet spread further

    ON MARCH 25th the World Health Organisation (WHO) reported a rash of cases of Ebola in Guinea, the first such ever seen in west Africa. As of then there had been 86 suspected cases, and there were reports of suspected cases in the neighbouring countries of Sierra Leone and Liberia as well. The death toll was 60.

    On October 15th the WHO released its latest update. The outbreak has now seen 8,997 confirmed, probable and suspected cases of Ebola. All but 24 of those have been in Guinea (16% of the total), Sierra Leone (36%) and Liberia (47%). The current death toll is 4,493. These numbers are underestimates; many cases, in some places probably most, go unreported.

    This all pales, though, compared with what is to come. The WHO fears it could see between 5,000 and 10,000 new cases reported a week by the beginning of December; that is, as many cases each week as have been seen in the entire outbreak up to this point. This is the terrifying thing about exponential growth as applied to disease: what is happening now, and what happens next, is always as bad as the sum of everything that has happened to date.

    Exponential growth cannot continue indefinitely; there are always barriers. In the previous 20 major outbreaks of the disease since its discovery in 1976, all of which took place in and around the Democratic Republic of the Congo, the initial rapid spread quickly subsided. In the current outbreak, though, the limits have been pushed much further back; it has already claimed more victims than all the previous outbreaks put together.

    Grim reckoning

    There are two reasons for this. Those earlier outbreaks were often in isolated places where there are few opportunities for transmission far afield—the transfer of the virus between a wild animal and a human that sets off all such outbreaks is more likely off the beaten track. And they were mostly recognised quickly, with cases isolated and contacts traced from very early on; one was stopped this way in Congo in the past few months. The west African outbreak has broken through the barriers of isolation and into the general population, both in the countryside and the cities, and it was up and running before public-health personnel cottoned on. There is no reason to expect it to subside of its own accord, nor to expect it to come under control in the absence of a far larger effort to stop it.

    Trying to be precise about how bad things could get, absent that effort, is not possible. This is not just because the actual number of cases is not well known. The rate at which cases give rise to subsequent cases, which epidemiologists call Rο, is the key variable. For easily transmitted diseases Rο can be high; for measles it is 18. For a disease like Ebola, much harder to catch, it is lower: estimates of Rο in different parts of the outbreak range from 1.5 to 2.2. Any Rο above 1 is bad news, though, and seemingly small differences in Rο can matter a lot. An Rο of 2.2 may sound not much bigger than an Rο of 1.5, but it means numbers will double twice as fast.

    And Rο is not a constant. It depends both on the biology of the virus, the setting of its spread (city or country, slum or suburb) and the behaviour of the people among whom it is spreading. Over the course of the crisis the second two factors are bound to change as the virus moves to different places and as people start to adapt. Given high rates of mutation, which bring with them the possibility of evolutionary change, it is possible that the first could change, too. Peter Piot, one of the researchers who first identified the Ebola virus in 1976, stresses that the course of an outbreak does not always follow smooth curves; it can stutter and flare up. None of this complexity, though, offers much reassurance. While doubtless imperfect, plausible model-based extrapolations such as a recent one from America’s Centres for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) suggest, in the absence of intervention, that there could be 1.4m cases in west Africa in the next three months.

    ...
    Veni, vidi, vaccini

    Changing behaviour could slow the spread of the virus; a vaccine could potentially stop it. In large part because of worries that Ebola might be used as a biological weapon, vaccines that protect lab animals against the virus were already on the shelf when the outbreak began. Two are now being tested for safety in humans, and one of them could, if it is safe, be tested for efficacy quite soon, most likely in health-care workers in west Africa. Its maker, GlaxoSmithKline, could have 10,000 doses ready in a few months. Meanwhile thought is going into how to scale up production of any vaccine that proves successful. The ideal would be to come up with some mixture of direct payment to companies and guaranteed purchases that would mean copious stocks were available the moment the good news came through.

    The other vaccine in trials might possibly, on the basis of animal tests, have the added benefit of helping those infected fight the virus as well as keeping the uninfected safe. At the moment there is a striking lack of such therapies: ZMapp, a cocktail of antibodies that has worked in animals, is of unproven efficacy and exhausted supply. A lower-tech alternative is to use blood serum from recovered patients, which contains the antibodies that helped them fight the virus. Such blood would have to be screened for other pathogens and matched to the recipients’ blood type, but WHO experts have been guardedly optimistic about the idea.
    ...
    http://www.economist.com/news/intern...-and-could-yet
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

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