How to convert someone online

[jmdrake]

I'm posting this thread in response to jllundqu's comment that he found all of the bickering among the Christians funny. In all of the time I've spent (wasted?) in the RPF religion section, I've only seen one person convert from one religious view to another religious view as a result of discussion on this forum. It wasn't from someone posting a video expounding their theology or someone arguing about exactly how salvation works or whether or not Jesus' body and blood is really in the Eucharist or from someone dong their version of "cult busting" or from someone saying what they didn't like about this pope or that reformer or anything.

The forum member that was converted is YumYum. (I haven't seen him in a while and I miss him). He started off a hard core agnostic. He was quite dismissive of any belief in a personal God. What changed him? Well...believe it or not...he saw some Christians discussing the love of Christ. That impressed him. Then sometime later in life he went through a bad illness that caused him severe pain. It was so bad that he decided to pray. He prayed to Jesus and asked if Jesus would either take the pain away or let him die. The pain went away and he was converted to Christianity.

So let's review. The theological and/or historical debates didn't lead him to Christ. Christians talking about the love of Jesus led him to Christ. Hmmmm....

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

John 13:35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.

Matthew 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Note, this isn't a call to ecumenicism. But if religious conversation is dominated by everything but the love Jesus, is it spiritual?

[otherone]

Then sometime later in life he went through a bad illness that caused him severe pain. It was so bad that he decided to pray. He prayed to Jesus and asked if Jesus would either take the pain away or let him die. The pain went away and he was converted to Christianity.

This counts as an online conversion?

He started off a hard core agnostic

Now THAT is funny...

[Working Poor]

The thing is about conversion is that it is up to the person and to Jesus. God's will is supreme too ya know. Another person's conversion is in no way up to you or me.
I am convinced that some people do not have a spirit to convert.

[otherone]

I am convinced that some people do not have a spirit to convert.

Romans 9:21?
Sola, is that you?

[William Tell]

Now THAT is funny...

Why? some agnostics hold the view that it is IMPOSSIBLE to know if God exists in this life.

[Terry1]

What I find ironic is that some believe in "spirit guides"--and the spiritual realm, but refuse to believe in a spiritual God and supreme authority.

My opinion is that God doesn't want anyone who doesn't want Him. He reveals His power and the spiritual world to some and not others for His own reasons. I can tell you this--many of the things I've heard, seen and experienced certainly were not the result of bad mushrooms or strong booze. They were real--more real than the realm that we live in here and now and trust me---some of you simply don't want to know in your current state of belief because it would probably frighten you to death--literally.

Without having the protection of the power of God and His heavenly angels--you do not want to dabble in the spiritual realm. I don't need to question the reality of it--I've seen it.

[Crashland]

What I find ironic is that some believe in "spirit guides"--and the spiritual realm, but refuse to believe in a spiritual God and supreme authority.

My opinion is that God doesn't want anyone who doesn't want Him. He reveals His power and the spiritual world to some and not others for His own reasons. I can tell you this--many of the things I've heard, seen and experienced certainly were not the result of bad mushrooms or strong booze. They were real--more real than the realm that we live in here and now and trust me---some of you simply don't want to know in your current state of belief because it would probably frighten you to death--literally.

Without having the protection of the power of God and His heavenly angels--you do not want to dabble in the spiritual realm. I don't need to question the reality of it--I've seen it.

What are the things that you have seen, heard, or experienced that are convincing to you?

[Christian Liberty]

I'm posting this thread in response to jllundqu's comment that he found all of the bickering among the Christians funny. In all of the time I've spent (wasted?) in the RPF religion section, I've only seen one person convert from one religious view to another religious view as a result of discussion on this forum. It wasn't from someone posting a video expounding their theology or someone arguing about exactly how salvation works or whether or not Jesus' body and blood is really in the Eucharist or from someone dong their version of "cult busting" or from someone saying what they didn't like about this pope or that reformer or anything.

The forum member that was converted is YumYum. (I haven't seen him in a while and I miss him). He started off a hard core agnostic. He was quite dismissive of any belief in a personal God. What changed him? Well...believe it or not...he saw some Christians discussing the love of Christ. That impressed him. Then sometime later in life he went through a bad illness that caused him severe pain. It was so bad that he decided to pray. He prayed to Jesus and asked if Jesus would either take the pain away or let him die. The pain went away and he was converted to Christianity.

So let's review. The theological and/or historical debates didn't lead him to Christ. Christians talking about the love of Jesus led him to Christ. Hmmmm....

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

John 13:35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.

Matthew 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Note, this isn't a call to ecumenicism. But if religious conversation is dominated by everything but the love Jesus, is it spiritual?

Just a note, Louise was converted from Catholicism to Reformed Christianity through Sola and Nang. I'm not going to ruin Jmdrake's thread by arguing whether that was a good or bad thing, but I figured I'd point it out. So there are at least 2.

[pcosmar]

NO ONE is converted by anyone "online". Period.

I can not "convert" you.. or convict you,, or even convince you.

I can share my testimony. I can tell you of Christ. but that is the extent of what I (or any other) can do.

The Spirit of God does the work.

[Christian Liberty]

NO ONE is converted by anyone "online". Period.

I can not "convert" you.. or convict you,, or even convince you.

I can share my testimony. I can tell you of Christ. but that is the extent of what I (or any other) can do.

The Spirit of God does the work.

I agree and I think we all agree on this.

[Terry1]

What are the things that you have seen, heard, or experienced that are convincing to you?

God will always confirm His blessings in your life in some way--mine were confirmed with visions, dreams, an audible message and more. These are to be expected if you walk in the spirit of the Lord--they are biblical.

I could tell you about each and every experience, but it would literally take a book to do that. If anyone really wants to know God with a burning desire--they will and more than they expected. Trust me on this one--you will not be left with doubt afterwards either.

[Crashland]

God will always confirm His blessings in your life in some way--mine were confirmed with visions, dreams, an audible message and more. These are to be expected if you walk in the spirit of the Lord--they are biblical.

I could tell you about each and every experience, but it would literally take a book to do that. If anyone really wants to know God with a burning desire--they will and more than they expected. Trust me on this one--you will not be left with doubt afterwards either.

Thanks for the reply. I recognize obviously everyone is different and I don't know first hand what you actually experience(d). When I believed in God I never had visions or an audible message like you, but I did have some experiences. I felt like I had a strong sense of God's calling. Or you know, something like when you're praying and you feel that distinct "pulling on your heart"? I guess that, plus having that continuous mindset where you see God's hand in things, as in, automatically attributing coincidences to God or seeing events as answers to prayer all the time. Or having that Bible verse pop into your head at just the right moment and feeling like it was God putting it there giving you the words to say to someone.

Anyway, I would very much like to believe you on that last point you made, if it weren't for my own personal experience which is directly at odds with it. After having experienced periods of serious doubt, I tried that very hard for a few years seeking to know God. Except what ended up happening was, the harder I tried, and the more I learned about the God of the Bible, the more doubtful I became. I guess you could chalk that up to Satan, or sin or something "getting in the way", or relying too much on myself, maybe, I guess? All I know is, I busted my butt for sticking with my faith, pleaded with God for help because obviously it wasn't happening on my own, and still I ended up a pretty confident atheist (or at least, atheistic towards the God as described in the Bible).

[Kevin007]

the best way to convert someone online is to threaten them with reading thousands of pages of Obamacare.

[jllundqu]

Interesting. I have no doubt that people may be 'converted' after reading this post or that... but have you taken into account how many people have been completely disgusted by the judging, condemnation, and prosthelytizing here, as well?

I would guess that many more people now hold a much more negative view of Jesus and God as a result, than have been so-called "converted"

I do enjoy a good theological discussion, though. Mainly because I don't rely on some 'sacred' text to memorize and spout off.

My main issues with Christianity are the differences between the Old Testament and the new... I want no part in worshipping a cruel god that wipes out cities and firstborn, etc.

In Deism, I choose to believe in God and have had many experiences where I have personally felt God's presence and touch in my life. I pray regularly. I also choose to use logic, reason, and the like (aka discernment) to know god and the natural world a little better.

[RJB]

There are at least 4 who have been led to Orthodoxy in the last year.

[Kevin007]

There are at least 4 who have been led to Orthodoxy in the last year.

hopefully more have been led to Jesus.

[Natural Citizen]

Interesting. I have no doubt that people may be 'converted' after reading this post or that... but have you taken into account how many people have been completely disgusted by the judging, condemnation, and prosthelytizing here, as well?

I think of it like that most of the time. Although I tend to think of conversion from a geo-political perspective more so than what it seems like is being discussed here. American evangelicalism cannot, at it's root, tolerate a civilization whose Christian traditions are entirely different from their own and conversion extends to a broader scope. I often wonder of the foreign policy positions of American Christians because of that reality when reading or listening to them discuss conversion on the smaller scale. Of course the same lack of toleration could be said to exist in a way that isn't relative to the geo-politics of it all. I don't know. Scwewy...

[Crashland]

Interesting. I have no doubt that people may be 'converted' after reading this post or that... but have you taken into account how many people have been completely disgusted by the judging, condemnation, and prosthelytizing here, as well?

I would guess that many more people now hold a much more negative view of Jesus and God as a result, than have been so-called "converted"

I do enjoy a good theological discussion, though. Mainly because I don't rely on some 'sacred' text to memorize and spout off.

My main issues with Christianity are the differences between the Old Testament and the new... I want no part in worshipping a cruel god that wipes out cities and firstborn, etc.

In Deism, I choose to believe in God and have had many experiences where I have personally felt God's presence and touch in my life. I pray regularly. I also choose to use logic, reason, and the like (aka discernment) to know god and the natural world a little better.

Interesting. So with your take on things, there is a God out there and we can have some degree of interaction with him, but it's just not the God as described in the Bible (or any particular religious text I suppose). As a deist, what are your prayers like - what types of things do you pray for? Do you feel like they are answered?

I think very rarely would someone actually become convinced to convert online, but online discussions can certainly get the ball rolling, point someone in another direction. or educate people on contextual facts.

[RJB]

hopefully more have been led to Jesus.

Much closer to Jesus, thank you.

[heavenlyboy34]

hopefully more have been led to Jesus.

You say that as if the two are mutually exclusive. They aren't, I promise. (this is from personal experience)

[jllundqu]

Interesting. So with your take on things, there is a God out there and we can have some degree of interaction with him, but it's just not the God as described in the Bible (or any particular religious text I suppose). As a deist, what are your prayers like - what types of things do you pray for? Do you feel like they are answered?

I think very rarely would someone actually become convinced to convert online, but online discussions can certainly get the ball rolling, point someone in another direction. or educate people on contextual facts.

I've read the bible, and many other religious texts from varying religions. I am, at heart, a scientist. I look at and study the natural world. But there are questions science can't answer. I do not pretend to know the answers to the bigger questions. The bible is valuable tool for moral teaching, but to believe in the old/new testament, and all the hokus pokus fairytales in it, is no different than the greeks who believed in Zeus tossing down lightning from Olympus, or Thor rocking his hammer, or any other creation myth from all the civilizations of the world. I don't doubt that Jesus was a real historical figure, I doubt his divinity. He was a very enlightened man who changed the world, but I feel he was just that, a man. I don't believe he was the one and only son of god and I don't believe he was raised from the dead, etc etc.

My religious beliefs are simple. There is a god. I am not him. I stand in awe of the universe and god's creation.

In answer to your question about my prayers. I often thank god for everything I have, even my struggles in life, which are many. I rarely ask God for anything as I don't presume that God "answers" prayers... I have seen far too much suffering in the world to believe that god rewards the righteous and punishes the wicked. I have found that far too many people talk to God (prayer) and far too FEW people try to listen to god by quieting the mind and opening the soul. God is constantly trying to speak to us, but no one cares to listen. Everyone is so egotistical to think that God should listen to THEM. I think this is bass-ackwards! This is where meditation and connection with nature bring me closer to God. I shut up and listen. You should try it sometime. Go on a hike. Sit outside and sway with the trees in the wind. FEEL the presence of the creator. This inspires me to serve my fellow man and remain humble. I don't feel I need some ancient supernatural father-figure floating in the clouds shaking his finger from the past at all humans do and don't do.

[jmdrake]

Just a note, Louise was converted from Catholicism to Reformed Christianity through Sola and Nang. I'm not going to ruin Jmdrake's thread by arguing whether that was a good or bad thing, but I figured I'd point it out. So there are at least 2.

There are at least 4 who have been led to Orthodoxy in the last year.

hopefully more have been led to Jesus.

Much closer to Jesus, thank you.

You say that as if the two are mutually exclusive. They aren't, I promise. (this is from personal experience)

Okay. So this is funny. So far I have presented the only story of someone who went from not having a faith in Jesus to having a faith in Jesus. Everyone else's story is about someone leaving one group where they already believed in Jesus and joining another group where they believe in Jesus. Well at least so far nobody's gone from believing in Jesus to not believing in Him. I guess that counts for something.

[RJB]

Okay. So this is funny. So far I have presented the only story of someone who went from not having a faith in Jesus to having a faith in Jesus. Everyone else's story is about someone leaving one group where they already believed in Jesus and joining another group where they believe in Jesus. Well at least so far nobody's gone from believing in Jesus to not believing in Him. I guess that counts for something.

I know what you're saying, but I wasn't aware that the discussion was just about unbelievers to Christians. The title said "How to convert someone online." I thought it was more along the lines of tactics. Sorry for the hijack.


I've always taken an interest in how people think and how they believe. If an atheist posts an article on how it is rational to be an atheist, I'll take the time to read. If a Buddhist posts something about the beauty of their belief, I'll read it. However a good number of religious posts are more of an attack on someone else. I think this is what turns people off the most.

Show me the beauty of your belief and I'll take an interest. I may not convert, but I will at least understand your perspective better.

[jmdrake]

I know what you're saying, but I wasn't aware that the discussion was just about unbelievers to Christians. The title said "How to convert someone online." I thought it was more along the lines of tactics. Sorry for the hijack.

Oh no need to apologize. In fact thanks for your input! FF had first made mention of Louise leaving EO for reformed. You showed that such conversions have gone both ways. And in my OP I did say "From one religions view to another". So going from one brand of Christianity to another fits the thread.

I've always taken an interest in how people think and how they believe. If an atheist posts an article on how it is rational to be an atheist, I'll take the time to read. If a Buddhist posts something about the beauty of their belief, I'll read it. However a good number of religious posts are more of an attack on someone else. I think this is what turns people off the most.

Show me the beauty of your belief and I'll take an interest. I may not convert, but I will at least understand your perspective better.

Yep! My thoughts exactly!

[Crashland]

I've read the bible, and many other religious texts from varying religions. I am, at heart, a scientist. I look at and study the natural world. But there are questions science can't answer. I do not pretend to know the answers to the bigger questions. The bible is valuable tool for moral teaching, but to believe in the old/new testament, and all the hokus pokus fairytales in it, is no different than the greeks who believed in Zeus tossing down lightning from Olympus, or Thor rocking his hammer, or any other creation myth from all the civilizations of the world. I don't doubt that Jesus was a real historical figure, I doubt his divinity. He was a very enlightened man who changed the world, but I feel he was just that, a man. I don't believe he was the one and only son of god and I don't believe he was raised from the dead, etc etc.

I agree.

My religious beliefs are simple. There is a god. I am not him. I stand in awe of the universe and god's creation.

Do you have a particular view on whether there might be more than one god/higher power?

In answer to your question about my prayers. I often thank god for everything I have, even my struggles in life, which are many. I rarely ask God for anything as I don't presume that God "answers" prayers... I have seen far too much suffering in the world to believe that god rewards the righteous and punishes the wicked. I have found that far too many people talk to God (prayer) and far too FEW people try to listen to god by quieting the mind and opening the soul. God is constantly trying to speak to us, but no one cares to listen. Everyone is so egotistical to think that God should listen to THEM. I think this is bass-ackwards! This is where meditation and connection with nature bring me closer to God. I shut up and listen. You should try it sometime. Go on a hike. Sit outside and sway with the trees in the wind. FEEL the presence of the creator. This inspires me to serve my fellow man and remain humble. I don't feel I need some ancient supernatural father-figure floating in the clouds shaking his finger from the past at all humans do and don't do.

Beautiful! Personally I don't think that there is a god out there, but I have to agree bigtime on that point on meditation. There is a certain peace that comes when you stop listening to yourself, and start listening to something else, whether it's nature, or other people, or if it is really a god. This is what I think is a big part of the draw of many religions across the board. Taking the time to put into perspective just how tiny you are in this world and in the universe, and being in awe of the grandness and beauty of the universe. That is something that everyone can learn to appreciate and benefit from whether they are Christians or Hindus or Deists or atheists. And it makes you a better person, when you listen and when you don't see the world as revolving around yourself.

[Eagles' Wings]

Just a note, Louise was converted from Catholicism to Reformed Christianity through Sola and Nang. I'm not going to ruin Jmdrake's thread by arguing whether that was a good or bad thing, but I figured I'd point it out. So there are at least 2.

Just a quick clarification. I had left the RCC many years before even hearing of Reformed theology. Reformed believers are not all on the same page either. Praise God that He takes His sheep into His care.

I did indeed learn alot from you, erowe1, Sola and Nang. I am continuing to read Puritan writers and particularly learning of dying to self, being more aware of the effect of sin in one's life.

That said, let us pray for those like Yum Yum, who are new in the Lord. May God be glorified!

[jllundqu]

I agree.



Do you have a particular view on whether there might be more than one god/higher power?

I feel there is one grand architect of the universe...

[acptulsa]

You say that as if the two are mutually exclusive. They aren't, I promise. (this is from personal experience)

Not always mutually exclusive, no. Of course not. But potentially...

Properly, with the sorry relics we bestrode, it was a three days' journey to Damascus. It was necessary that we should do it in less than two. It was necessary because our three pilgrims would not travel on the Sabbath day. We were all perfectly willing to keep the Sabbath day, but there are times when to keep the letter of a sacred law whose spirit is righteous, becomes a sin, and this was a case in point. We pleaded for the tired, ill-treated horses, and tried to show that their faithful service deserved kindness in return, and their hard lot compassion. But when did ever self-righteousness know the sentiment of pity? What were a few long hours added to the hardships of some over-taxed brutes when weighed against the peril of those human souls? It was not the most promising party to travel with and hope to gain a higher veneration for religion through the example of its devotees. We said the Saviour who pitied dumb beasts and taught that the ox must be rescued from the mire even on the Sabbath day, would not have counseled a forced march like this. We said the "long trip" was exhausting and therefore dangerous in the blistering heats of summer, even when the ordinary days' stages were traversed, and if we persisted in this hard march, some of us might be stricken down with the fevers of the country in consequence of it. Nothing could move the pilgrims. They must press on. Men might die, horses might die, but they must enter upon holy soil next week, with no Sabbath-breaking stain upon them. Thus they were willing to commit a sin against the spirit of religious law, in order that they might preserve the letter of it.