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Thread: Forget About Rx Pain Pills — Non-addictive Pain Killer Kratom Relieves Chronic Pain, Depressio

  1. #1

    Forget About Rx Pain Pills — Non-addictive Pain Killer Kratom Relieves Chronic Pain, Depressio

    Forget About Rx Pain Pills — Non-addictive Pain Killer Kratom Relieves Chronic Pain, Depression

    by JB Bardot

    Kratom is a tree native to Southeast Asia that is widely known as ‘nature’s vicodin’. The leaves of the tree can be chewed, made into a tea, or dried and added to capsules that cure anxiety, depression, migraines and many types of chronic pain. The plant acts as both a mild sedative when used sparingly; and in large doses, as a stimulant. It can also be used to wean patients off opiate addictions such as heroin and morphine. The plant is from the same family as the coffee tree, and Thai people have used Kratom leaves as a form of medicine for centuries to treat conditions such as diarrhea, nervousness and opiate withdrawal. Many long-term users of Kratom claim that it is more effective at managing pain than many powerful painkillers such as morphine and vicodin, and is far less addictive than chemical narcotics. The DEA has placed Kratom onto their Drugs and Chemicals of Concern list in the past, and it is illegal in Australia, Thailand, Malaysia and Burma. It is available over-the-counter in powder form, dried leaves, capsules and as an extract, and there have been no reported cases of overdose or serious side-effects.



    History of Kratom

    The first documented cases about Kratom comes from the early 19th century after a Dutch Botanist named Pieter Korthals commented on how the leaves of the tree reminded him of a Bishops mitre and named the tree Mitragyna. There is not much evidence available on the use of Kratom before Europe’s colonisation of Asia, but it is generally believed that Asian people have used this herb for hundreds of years. Farmworkers would often chew the leaves as a pick me up in the morning in the same way as many people now rely on coffee. In 1943, the Thai government passed a new law banning the use of kratom citing it as a dangerous drug, although many people believe the move was to protect the government’s investment in the booming opiate business. Despite the ban, kratom use continues in Thailand even though the government imposes strong penalties on those caught with the herb.

    Kratom as a Painkiller

    Kratom is perfectly legal in the United States and many advocates of the herb claim it has similar pain relieving properties as marijuana. The web is filled with misinformation about this wonderful herb, and the DEA and many different mainstream news sources try to categorize it with the latest harmful drug trends such as bath salts. According to its users, taking a small amount of kratom extract everyday will benefit those suffering from all forms of pain including past injuries, nerve damage, headaches and arthritis. Kratom contains two compounds known as mitragynine and 7-hydroxymitragynine which have been found to have mildly sedative effects when used on rats. Kratom is reported to be mildly psychoactive, and users have noted that they can experience feelings of extreme well being and blissfulness.

    Continued...
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner



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  3. #2
    If it does what they say it does, I want to try it. Any idea where to buy?

  4. #3
    LOL @ the first paragraph in the wiki:
    Mitragyna speciosa (ketum,[2] kratom or kratum,[3] Thai: กระท่อม) is a tropical deciduous and evergreen tree in the coffee family (Rubiaceae) native to Southeast Asia in the Indochina and Malesia floristic regions. Its leaves are used for medicinal properties. It is psychoactive, and leaves are chewed to uplift mood and to treat health problems.[4] M. speciosa is indigenous to Thailand and, despite growing naturally in the country, has been outlawed for 70 years and was originally banned because it was reducing the Thai government's tax revenue from opium distribution.[4]
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitragyna_speciosa

  5. #4
    A resource that I trust;

    https://www.erowid.org/plants/kratom/kratom.shtml

    [edit]

    From erowid;

    POSITIVE
    Simultaneous stimulation & sedation
    Feelings of empathy
    Feelings of euphoria
    Aphrodisiac qualities for some people
    Vivid waking dreams
    Useful with physical labor
    Low doses can result in a lasting "glow" in some people, feeling better than normal the next day
    Increases sociability and talkativeness
    NEUTRAL
    Relatively short duration
    Change in ability to focus eyes
    Analgesia
    NEGATIVE
    Very bitter taste
    Dizziness, nausea and/or vomiting at higher doses
    Mild depression during and/or after
    Increase in (perceived) body temperature. (feel hot and sweaty)
    Hangover similar to alcohol, including headaches and sometimes nausea (at higher doses)
    Desire to repeat experience more frequently than intended, can lead to addiction
    Tolerance building quickly after a few days in a row of repeated use, tolerance to effects reduces with a one to three days of abstinence

  6. #5
    FWIW, the wiki also says its illegal in Indiana.

  7. #6
    Kratom -- Why Big Pharma Hates It & People Love It

    by Paul Kemp

    Kratom Satisfies Human Needs Better Than Prescription Drugs

    The herb Kratom -- Mitragyna speciosa -- has become surprisingly popular for a growing number of Americans with various conditions that the pharmaceutical industry has poorly served and often ignored. Fibromyalgia, depression, diabetes, PTSD, anxiety, and chronic pain due to arthritis and injuries are some of the conditions where patients are turning to kratom out of frustration with pharmaceutical drug side-effects and lack of benefit.

    Of course, the pharmaceutical companies are not pleased with the loss of revenue that this humble herb is causing them. With their financial pull they seem to be behind a nationwide, state-by-state campaign to demonize the herb with lurid TV news reports and simultaneous legislative moves to ban the herb.

    For those who know and use kratom daily, without incident, this David vs. Goliath battle is almost comical in its heavy-handed distortion of the truth -- and plainly reminiscent of past media campaigns against marijuana, which also turned out to offer relief for many conditions (and is now belatedly receiving respect and increasing legal recognition as a non-problem).

    While it is not completely accurate to say that Big Pharma "hates" kratom, they seem to prefer to take it apart and sell it piece by piece, as new drugs. Ultimately, their plan appears to be to patent beneficial alkaloids contained in kratom, while using the force of law to deny access to the natural herb.

    Will they succeed? That depends on you, dear reader.

    Continued...
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Lindsey View Post
    If it does what they say it does, I want to try it. Any idea where to buy?
    http://www.buykratom.us/Maeng-Da-Kratom_p_13.html
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  9. #8
    I've been using this for years. Wonderful plant while it lasts: http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/cms_ia...lert_1137.html



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  11. #9
    Article from just today: http://foodpoisoningbulletin.com/201...of-raw-kratom/

    U.S. Marshals Seize $5 Million of Raw Kratom
    September 28, 2014 by Carla Gillespie Leave a Comment

    FDA-Food-SafetyU.S. Marshals have seized more than 25,000 pounds of raw kratom material worth more than $5 million from Rosefield Management, Inc. in Van Nuys, California. Kratom is a botanical substance native to Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia and Papua New Guinea. It is not approved in the U.S. for any medical use but is marketed for its opioid-like analgesic effects and in the treatment of morphine and heroin addiction.

    Consumption of kratom can cause health problems including respiratory depression, nervousness, agitation, aggression, sleeplessness, hallucinations, delusions, loss of libido, tremors, skin hyperpigmentation, nausea, vomiting, constipation and severe withdrawal signs and symptoms.

    “We have identified kratom as a botanical substance that poses a risk to public health and has the potential for abuse,” said Melinda Plaisier, the FDA’s associate commissioner for regulatory affairs. “This action was taken to safeguard the public from this dangerous product, and FDA will continue to take aggressive enforcement actions against products that are promoted for uses that are unapproved.”

    After being told not to distribute the product, Rosefield distributed kratom to Wholesale Shamanic Herbs. Wholesale Shamanic Herbs which promoted it on its website as a product that could cure, mitigate and treat disease.
    (You aren't allowed to make cure/ health benefit claims without supporting studies to prove the claims -that is what they hit the company for)

    It isn't illegal in the US and the health problems occur mostly at high doses. Current drug tests won't pick it up in your system either.

    Opium was once viewed similarly to kratom. Not saying they are the same- research on it is very limited so be careful if you choose to try it.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 09-28-2014 at 12:03 PM.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    LOL @ the first paragraph in the wiki:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitragyna_speciosa
    It was outlawed because the natural availability was cutting into their taxes on opium.

    I've known people who have had great benefits from it.

    I have heard people with opiate addictions have trouble with addiction to kratom. I personally enjoyed it without any issues, but I can also enjoy a cigarette or cigar one evening and not have another for a few months.

  13. #11

  14. #12
    That's a good site to research before putting any substance in the body. The experience vault is priceless. Over the years, I've found personal anecdotes more useful than studies.

    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    A resource that I trust;

    https://www.erowid.org/plants/kratom/kratom.shtml

    [edit]

    From erowid;

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Article from just today: http://foodpoisoningbulletin.com/201...of-raw-kratom/



    (You aren't allowed to make cure/ health benefit claims without supporting studies to prove the claims -that is what they hit the company for)
    The same should go to the claims that the FDA make:

    Consumption of kratom can cause health problems including respiratory depression, nervousness, agitation, aggression, sleeplessness, hallucinations, delusions, loss of libido, tremors, skin hyperpigmentation, nausea, vomiting, constipation and severe withdrawal signs and symptoms.
    Remember the FDA is the henchmen for Big pHARMa. They would have to prove the side effects they claim.
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Article from just today: http://foodpoisoningbulletin.com/201...of-raw-kratom/



    (You aren't allowed to make cure/ health benefit claims without supporting studies to prove the claims -that is what they hit the company for)

    It isn't illegal in the US and the health problems occur mostly at high doses. Current drug tests won't pick it up in your system either.

    Opium was once viewed similarly to kratom. Not saying they are the same- research on it is very limited so be careful if you choose to try it.
    That's completely nuts, if anything (not that they should have...but) they should have seized Wholesale Shamanic Herbs Kratom, not their supplier who has no control over what their customers put on their website..

    Sounds like this product might have something to it.
    Last edited by dannno; 09-28-2014 at 12:57 PM.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  17. #15
    One warning. Herbal medicine appears to be subtle but works powerfully. In the modern age where people want instant gratification, herbs seem to not to work because of lack of patience. It may either take too long or you don't feel dopey and herbs are either discredited or someone uses way too much and gets side affects. Kratom is a rarity, whose potency is near that of a pharmaceutical.

    Use all herbs respectfully, don't underestimate them and don't treat them as toys. Especially kratom. It's a powerful medicine and very good if respect and wisdom are used.

    That said-- I'm not disparaging the use of herbal medicine, I use herbs regularly, as both food and medicine, and I trust them far more than pharms. I think the modern exercise of isolating chemicals is disrespecting what God gave us. It's like trying to thrive on isolated protein and carbo powder and isolated oils instead of enjoying a steak dinner.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    One warning. Herbal medicine appears to be subtle but works powerfully. In the modern age where people want instant gratification, herbs seem to not to work because of lack of patience. It may either take too long or you don't feel dopey and herbs are either discredited or someone uses way too much and gets side affects. Kratom is a rarity, whose potency is near that of a pharmaceutical.

    Use all herbs respectfully, don't underestimate them and don't treat them as toys. Especially kratom. It's a powerful medicine and very good if respect and wisdom are used.

    That said-- I'm not disparaging the use of herbal medicine, I use herbs regularly, as both food and medicine, and I trust them far more than pharms. I think the modern exercise of isolating chemicals is disrespecting what God gave us. It's like trying to thrive on isolated protein and carbo powder and isolated oils instead of enjoying a steak dinner.
    Wise words!



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    One warning. Herbal medicine appears to be subtle but works powerfully. In the modern age where people want instant gratification, herbs seem to not to work because of lack of patience. It may either take too long or you don't feel dopey and herbs are either discredited or someone uses way too much and gets side affects. Kratom is a rarity, whose potency is near that of a pharmaceutical.

    Use all herbs respectfully, don't underestimate them and don't treat them as toys. Especially kratom. It's a powerful medicine and very good if respect and wisdom are used.

    That said-- I'm not disparaging the use of herbal medicine, I use herbs regularly, as both food and medicine, and I trust them far more than pharms. I think the modern exercise of isolating chemicals is disrespecting what God gave us. It's like trying to thrive on isolated protein and carbo powder and isolated oils instead of enjoying a steak dinner.
    Well said. +rep
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  21. #18
    I've been trying to find out more information and it seems that most of the users of kratom are either looking for a high, or have some form of opiate addiction. My body is opiate-naive - it's been over 18 months since I have had any form of opiate. I had been hooked after 33 days in the hospital, where I was getting dilaudid and methadone. It took 2-3 months of reducing my dose until I was off and even then withdrawal made me never want to experience opiates again. I have no desire to take any prescription meds again. I even get frustrated with myself when I have to rely on Ibuprofen. I still experience a lot of pain though. My pain is daily, with flare-ups about 2-3x/week. The pain affects my quality of life - it keeps me inactive, it messes with my sleep, it stresses me out.

    If Kratom is legal, why does it seem so shady? Is it safe? Is it habit-forming? If you were opiate-naive, primarily organic food eating, trying to be healthy and only looking to take the edge off of pain, (no desire to get high,) would you try it?

  22. #19

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Lindsey View Post
    I've been trying to find out more information and it seems that most of the users of kratom are either looking for a high, or have some form of opiate addiction. My body is opiate-naive - it's been over 18 months since I have had any form of opiate. I had been hooked after 33 days in the hospital, where I was getting dilaudid and methadone. It took 2-3 months of reducing my dose until I was off and even then withdrawal made me never want to experience opiates again. I have no desire to take any prescription meds again. I even get frustrated with myself when I have to rely on Ibuprofen. I still experience a lot of pain though. My pain is daily, with flare-ups about 2-3x/week. The pain affects my quality of life - it keeps me inactive, it messes with my sleep, it stresses me out.

    If Kratom is legal, why does it seem so shady? Is it safe? Is it habit-forming? If you were opiate-naive, primarily organic food eating, trying to be healthy and only looking to take the edge off of pain, (no desire to get high,) would you try it?

    I would give it a go, but take RJB's advice. Start with low doses and go from there - when it starts working for a while, maybe take a few days off and see how you feel then.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  24. #21
    I'm allergic to opiates. Does it share any of the same properties beyond the pain killing? I can't even take Vicodin because I get violently ill and migraines from it.

  25. #22
    It's addictive.

    You can buy it in any head shop and many hooka shops.

    -t

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by tangent4ronpaul View Post
    It's addictive.

    You can buy it in any head shop and many hooka shops.

    -t

    Yeah it is addicting--according to the DEA. But Kratom is not scheduled under the "Controlled Substances Act."

    http://web.archive.org/web/201302190...ern/kratom.pdf


    Is medicinal herb kratom a safe and effective alternative for treating pain, anxiety and depression?
    Friday, April 06, 2012 by: Jonathan Benson


    Mitragyna speciosa, also known as "kratom," is a plant native to the rainforests of Southeast Asia that has long been used in traditional herbal medicine to treat pain, boost energy, alleviate anxiety and depression symptoms, and promote feelings of wellness and happiness. But because the plant allegedly exhibits opioid-like activity, the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) has placed it on its infamous Drugs and Chemicals of Concern list, which indicates that the agency may eventually try to ban kratom in the U.S.

    Kratom's users swear by its medicinal properties, insisting that it is safer and more effective than prescription painkillers like Vicodin (acetaminophen and hydrocodone) and morphine, and far less addictive. But the DEA is treating kratom as if it was a highly-dangerous drug capable of causing severe harm. So is kratom safe and effective, or is it dangerous?

    Based on the limited data that is available on kratom, it appears as though the actual plant extract itself is basically safe, and that the DEA is simply overreacting. Even in its own warning, the DEA notes that the main problems associated with kratom have to do with it being abused, and typically in conjunction with other chemicals and additives. By itself, in other words, there appears to be no legitimate evidence showing that kratom is in any way dangerous.

    You can learn a little more about kratom, including its potential dangers, by visiting:
    http://www.kratom.com/

    Kratom appears safer and more effective than pharmaceutical drugs at treating chronic pain

    A 1988 study published in the Journal of Ethnopharmacology found that two of the more than 25 naturally-occurring alkaloids found in kratom leaves -- mitragynine and 7-hydroxymitragynine -- exhibit opiate-like effects in animals. And yet these two compounds merely act on opiate receptors, and in a much less severe way than, say, morphine, which is highly addictive and potentially deadly (http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com).

    On the other hand, kratom users say the herb helps them live vibrant, pain-free lives without causing any harmful side effects. And most reports, though anecdotal, claim that any potential addiction to kratom is mild and easily mitigated. So who are we to trust, actual users or the DEA?

    Continued...
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  27. #24



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  29. #25
    My overall takeaway is that Kratom has a two-tiered effect. Initially it provides a burst of energy very similar to a strong cup of coffee. Unlike coffee, however, the energy I derived from Kratom was longer-lasting and level. My experience with coffee is that the initial burst is strong but it tapers and descends rapidly, leading to the well-known caffeine crash. The energy from Kratom, on the other hand, would often last for three or four hours, but was subtle enough that at no point did I feel like I was jumping out of my skin. I also did not experience an energy crash with any of the Kratom products I sampled.

    The second-tier effect was relaxing, but fell short of being sedating. I never felt sleepy while taking Kratom, but I did experience a level relaxation that was pleasant, and balanced out the initial energy-boosting effects nicely.

    As to side effects, I can’t say that I experienced any worth noting. A few times I noticed that my eyes were bloodshot after I used a fusion containing an extract, but that was not a consistent side effect and it never obscured my vision, nor did it seem related to any other drawbacks.

    As to the difference between capsules and powder, I noticed that the powder worked faster, but the capsules seemed to be generally as effective, though with somewhat delayed effects. That makes perfect sense since it takes the stomach a bit longer to break down the gelatin containing the powder.

    My biggest concern with most of the products I sampled is that it’s not easy to nail down the specific amount to take. I used “bakers spoons” that indicated how many grams a spoonful contained, but I’d strongly recommend anyone who wants to take the product long-term to invest in a decent-quality digital kitchen scale. I am indebted to several people who have sold Kratom for years for offering free advice on how to arrive at the correct amount for my body type (I'm six feet, 225 lbs with an athletic build).

    In my case, about three grams was adequate to induce an effect, but I have been told by several regular Kratom users that amounts vary greatly by person. I can’t make any recommendations on the “right” amount to use. I simply experimented with amounts (guided by the advice I mentioned) until I found one that worked well for me.

    My overall comment on Kratom is that it’s a lot like good coffee, but with a more even, long-lasting energy effect, and a much more pleasant “finish.”

    As to the results of stopping usage, I can tell you without hyperbole that getting off coffee is a far worse experience than getting off Kratom. I was able to stop taking Kratom for three days and at most I experienced a bit of sluggishness that wore off in a day or so. Withdrawal from coffee, for me, includes at minimum two days of excruciating headaches that make me want to rip trees from the ground and toss them through store windows (something I've never actually done, mind you). Suffice to say, caffeine withdrawal is significantly worse than Kratom withdrawal, if it can even be called "withdrawal." There's no comparison whatsoever.

    Having now experienced the product myself for a number of weeks, I can see no reason why it should be banned, or on what basis such a product would be banned if people can walk into a typical coffee shop and buy an enormous cup of an addictive substance that’s arguably more potent than any Kratom available anywhere.
    http://www.daviddisalvo.org/the-dail...xperiment.html
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    Erowid says it "can" cause a physical dependency and I give their take much more credit than anything government says...
    Tod, I cannot speak from personal experience with regards to Kratom, but anything can be addicting to certain personalities--just sayin'
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    Tod, I cannot speak from personal experience with regards to Kratom, but anything can be addicting to certain personalities--just sayin'
    Absolutely!

    Reading the adverse effects made me chuckle though......

    If minor nausea and temporary digestive problems are the extent of withdrawal then this plant seems much safer than the cornucopia of pharmaceuticals being marketed for pain relief...

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    Absolutely!

    Reading the adverse effects made me chuckle though......

    If minor nausea and temporary digestive problems are the extent of withdrawal then this plant seems much safer than the cornucopia of pharmaceuticals being marketed for pain relief...
    Yes considering the information that has come out about Acetaminophen and Ibuprofen and what they are doing to the stomach, liver and kidneys.

    I have a sister who spent nearly a month in the hospital because she was taking Ibuprofen, like candy, for pain she was experiencing (which happened to be because of the Ibuprofen). The Ibuprofen caused an ulcer and wound up bursting, nearly killing her. Unfortunately she learned the hard way about how bad Ibuprofen is.
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Carlybee View Post
    I'm allergic to opiates. Does it share any of the same properties beyond the pain killing? I can't even take Vicodin because I get violently ill and migraines from it.
    It is not the same, but it acts on some of the same receptors so I would be cautious.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Lindsey View Post
    I've been trying to find out more information and it seems that most of the users of kratom are either looking for a high, or have some form of opiate addiction. My body is opiate-naive - it's been over 18 months since I have had any form of opiate. I had been hooked after 33 days in the hospital, where I was getting dilaudid and methadone. It took 2-3 months of reducing my dose until I was off and even then withdrawal made me never want to experience opiates again. I have no desire to take any prescription meds again. I even get frustrated with myself when I have to rely on Ibuprofen. I still experience a lot of pain though. My pain is daily, with flare-ups about 2-3x/week. The pain affects my quality of life - it keeps me inactive, it messes with my sleep, it stresses me out.

    If Kratom is legal, why does it seem so shady? Is it safe? Is it habit-forming? If you were opiate-naive, primarily organic food eating, trying to be healthy and only looking to take the edge off of pain, (no desire to get high,) would you try it?
    There are very few drugs in the world that actually SOLVE chronic problems. In the long term they either lose effectiveness due to tolerance, have harmful side effects, cause addiction, or all of the above. Maybe kratom is an exception? I don't know. But if I were a betting man . . .

    But there is good news for chronic pain sufferers: http://franticworld.com/can-mindfuln...-90-percent-2/

    It isn't as easy as popping a pill, but it has been my (painful) experience in life that the easy way is rarely the best way. It is usually just a waste of time.
    The proper concern of society is the preservation of individual freedom; the proper concern of the individual is the harmony of society.

    "Who would be free, themselves must strike the blow." - Byron

    "Who overcomes by force, hath overcome but half his foe." - Milton

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