Results 1 to 11 of 11

Thread: "Arab civilization has collapsed. It won’t recover in my lifetime."

  1. #1

    "Arab civilization has collapsed. It won’t recover in my lifetime."

    The Barbarians Within Our Gates
    Arab civilization has collapsed. It won’t recover in my lifetime.
    By HISHAM MELHEM - September 18, 2014

    With his decision to use force against the violent extremists of the Islamic State, President Obama is doing more than to knowingly enter a quagmire. He is doing more than play with the fates of two half-broken countries—Iraq and Syria—whose societies were gutted long before the Americans appeared on the horizon. Obama is stepping once again—and with understandably great reluctance—into the chaos of an entire civilization that has broken down.

    Arab civilization, such as we knew it, is all but gone. The Arab world today is more violent, unstable, fragmented and driven by extremism—the extremism of the rulers and those in opposition—than at any time since the collapse of the Ottoman Empire a century ago. Every hope of modern Arab history has been betrayed. The promise of political empowerment, the return of politics, the restoration of human dignity heralded by the season of Arab uprisings in their early heydays—all has given way to civil wars, ethnic, sectarian and regional divisions and the reassertion of absolutism, both in its military and atavistic forms. With the dubious exception of the antiquated monarchies and emirates of the Gulf—which for the moment are holding out against the tide of chaos—and possibly Tunisia, there is no recognizable legitimacy left in the Arab world.

    Is it any surprise that, like the vermin that take over a ruined city, the heirs to this self-destroyed civilization should be the nihilistic thugs of the Islamic State? And that there is no one else who can clean up the vast mess we Arabs have made of our world but the Americans and Western countries?

    No one paradigm or one theory can explain what went wrong in the Arab world in the last century. There is no obvious set of reasons for the colossal failures of all the ideologies and political movements that swept the Arab region: Arab nationalism, in its Baathist and Nasserite forms; various Islamist movements; Arab socialism; the rentier state and rapacious monopolies, leaving in their wake a string of broken societies. No one theory can explain the marginalization of Egypt, once the center of political and cultural gravity in the Arab East, and its brief and tumultuous experimentation with peaceful political change before it reverted back to military rule.
    ...
    The polarizations in Syria and Iraq—political, sectarian and ethnic—are so deep that it is difficult to see how these once-important countries could be restored as unitary states.
    ...
    The jihadists of the Islamic State, in other words, did not emerge from nowhere. They climbed out of a rotting, empty hulk—what was left of a broken-down civilization. They are a gruesome manifestation of a deeper malady afflicting Arab political culture, which was stagnant, repressive and patriarchal after the decades of authoritarian rule that led to the disastrous defeat in the 1967 war with Israel. That defeat sounded the death knell of Arab nationalism and the resurgence of political Islam, which projected itself as the alternative to the more secular ideologies that had dominated the Arab republics since the Second World War. If Arab decline was the problem, then “Islam is the solution,” the Islamists said—and they believed it.
    ...
    Like the Islamists, the Arab nationalists—particularly the Baathists—were also fixated on a “renaissance” of past Arab greatness, which had once flourished in the famed cities of Damascus, Baghdad, Cairo and Córdoba in Al-Andalus, now Spain. These nationalists believed that Arab language and culture (and to a lesser extent Islam) were enough to unite disparate entities with different levels of social, political and cultural development. They were in denial that they lived in a far more diverse world. Those minorities that resisted the primacy of Arab identity were discriminated against, denied citizenship and basic rights, and in the case of the Kurds in Iraq were subjected to massive repression and killings of genocidal proportion. Under the guise of Arab nationalism the modern Arab despot (Saddam, Qaddafi, the Assads) emerged. But these men lived in splendid solitude, detached from their own people. The repression and intimidation of the societies they ruled over were painfully summarized by the gifted Syrian poet Muhammad al-Maghout: “I enter the bathroom with my identity papers in my hand.”

    The dictators, always unpopular, opened the door to the Islamists’ rise when they proved just as incompetent as the monarchs they had replaced. ...
    Yes, it is misleading to lump—as some do—all Islamist groups together, even though all are conservative in varying degrees. As terrorist organizations, al Qaeda and Islamic State are different from the Muslim Brotherhood, a conservative movement that renounced violence years ago, although it did dabble with violence in the past.

    Nonetheless, most of these groups do belong to the same family tree—and all of them stem from the Arabs’ civilizational ills. The Islamic State, like al Qaeda, is the tumorous creation of an ailing Arab body politic. Its roots run deep in the badlands of a tormented Arab world that seems to be slouching aimlessly through the darkness. It took the Arabs decades and generations to reach this nadir. It will take us a long time to recover—it certainly won’t happen in my lifetime. My generation of Arabs was told by both the Arab nationalists and the Islamists that we should man the proverbial ramparts to defend the “Arab World” against the numerous barbarians (imperialists, Zionists, Soviets) massing at the gates. Little did we know that the barbarians were already inside the gates, that they spoke our language and were already very well entrenched in the city.
    ...
    Much more:
    http://www.politico.com/magazine/sto...es-111116.html
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



  2. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  3. #2
    Has collapsed or was collapsed?

  4. #3

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    Has collapsed or was collapsed?
    Collapsed. You know. Like this:



    Why? You aren't accusing politico of lying just because of a little sin of omission, are you? Because it's hard to lie when you're sinfully omitting. One tends to have one's lips sealed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only want the freedoms that will undermine the nation and lead to the destruction of liberty.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Collapsed. You know. Like this:



    Why? You aren't accusing politico of lying just because of a little sin of omission, are you? Because it's hard to lie when you're sinfully omitting. One tends to have one's lips sealed.

    Falling back on my 9/11 conspiracy stuff.

    LIHOP or MIHOP?

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin Truth View Post
    Falling back on my 9/11 conspiracy stuff.

    LIHOP or MIHOP?
    Now you're just being judgmental. Like those people who can't get over the fact that the law's the law and we have to live with it just because they think a bill with a nine percent approval rating should never have gotten passed in a republic.

    What's past is past. Getting the criminals out of positions of power is dwelling in ancient history. We have to move forward now, even if it's exactly in the wrong direction.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only want the freedoms that will undermine the nation and lead to the destruction of liberty.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Now you're just being judgmental. Like those people who can't get over the fact that the law's the law and we have to live with it just because they think a bill with a nine percent approval rating should never have gotten passed in a republic.

    What's past is past. Getting the criminals out of positions of power is dwelling in ancient history. We have to move forward now, even if it's exactly in the wrong direction
    .
    I wonder if there's a Will Rogers witticism about that...
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Now you're just being judgmental. Like those people who can't get over the fact that the law's the law and we have to live with it just because they think a bill with a nine percent approval rating should never have gotten passed in a republic.

    What's past is past. Getting the criminals out of positions of power is dwelling in ancient history. We have to move forward now, even if it's exactly in the wrong direction.
    I was just applying the useful acronyms to the thread's Arab civilization collapse paradigm.



  10. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  11. #9
    Imagine if the US fell apart into a centuries-long civil war (Muslims were fighting before WWI), and it was all medieval warlords beheading everyone. BUT, we all still insist that we're the best civilization in the history of the world, and that anyone who insults America has to die. That's what its like to be in a Muslim country right now.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by maybemaybenot View Post
    Imagine if the US fell apart into a centuries-long civil war (Muslims were fighting before WWI), and it was all medieval warlords beheading everyone. BUT, we all still insist that we're the best civilization in the history of the world, and that anyone who insults America has to die. That's what its like to be in a Muslim country right now.
    Muslim nationalists claim to be the best civilization in world history? That's new to me. I've heard that from Americans a lot, though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    Muslim nationalists claim to be the best civilization in world history? That's new to me. I've heard that from Americans a lot, though.
    Not only did I not say "Muslim nationalists," but by saying that yourself, you have merged two totally distinct and opposing Middle Eastern philosophies, Arab nationalism and Islamism (theocracy).



Similar Threads

  1. Are current ISIS battles really about "Persians" vs "Arab-Jewish brotherhood"?
    By enhanced_deficit in forum World News & Affairs
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-15-2015, 12:29 PM
  2. Ron Paul "only" has a 96% lifetime Freedom Index ranking
    By enoch150 in forum Ron Paul Forum
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 02-07-2014, 12:18 PM
  3. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 07-29-2013, 08:08 AM
  4. Keynesian: "U.S. needs more inflation to recover" (article)
    By heavenlyboy34 in forum Economy & Markets
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 05-19-2009, 05:20 PM
  5. Replies: 9
    Last Post: 04-19-2009, 01:37 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •